Can you bulk as a vegetarian?

Ricardo

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Instead of becoming a complete vegetarian and watching my muscle gains and food choices go away, I have decided to go vegetarian two days a week for the benefits in lowering cholestorol and risk of various cancers.

Then 3-4 of the other days I get all my meat sources from fish (a little more costly, but great for the brain health). 1-2 days I'll eat chicken or red meat.

I heard that just recently that Albert Einstein was a vegetarian. I'd like to find a source that says that.
 

Aiken_Drum

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Originally posted by Don_juan:
And for that they should all be chopped up into little pieces and served in a big pot pie.
mmm, vegetarians...

And wtf would I care if Vincent Van Gogh or Edoson were vegans? Does it mean you can't MEAT
a succesfull person who is not vegan??
HELL NO!
 

Bones

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I'm sure alot of these guys became vegetarians after they were famous and had already lost touch with reality, much like how celebrities turn to scientology or bull**** organizations like PETA. I mean, guys like Woody Harrelson and Larry Hagman became psychos once they were famous. McCartney and Lennon weren't vegetarians when they were writing the music that made them famous, not the crap McCartney's been doing since the Beatles broke up. Tons of great men have been alcoholics and heroin addicts while they were doing some of their best work; it's the same argument.
 

Viroid

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Originally posted by Pimp For A Living:
FUN FACTS:

The American Cancer Society is recommending that individuals eat more whole grains to lower their risk of cancer. Following are some of the reasons why including grains in your diet is a healthy thing to do:

Insoluble fiber cuts cancer risk by decreasing the toxicity of certain bile acids.

Soluble fiber, particularly in oats and barley, may reduce LDL ("bad" cholesterol) levels without lowering HDL ("good" cholesterol) levels.

May make people less likely to develop colorectal, stomach and endometrial cancers and heart disease.

Soluble fiber, particularly in oats and barley, slows starch digestion, which may help diabetics avoid steep rises in blood sugar levels following meals.


YES! But you dont realize that the only good thing about grain is the FIBER. Its the fiber that is good for you, not the grain. There are better more natural ways to get your in/soluble fiber, like fruits, psyllium husk, legumes and veggies. The human species has not yet adapted to eating grains. Our ancestors (cavemen) didnt not eat grains. And they were not out in the fields planting wheat and rice.


Digesting Time for Common Foods

Green Vegetables (non-starch) - 5 hours

Raw Juices-15 minutes

Fat-12 hours

Protein (meat)-12 hours

Protein (fat)-12
hours

Starch-5 hours

Mild Starch-5 hours

Fruit, Sweet/Dried-3 hours

Fruit (Acid)-2 hours

Fruit (Sub-Acid)-2 hours

Fruit, Sweet/Fresh-3 hours

Melon-2 hours

Syrup, Sugar-2 hours

Milk-12 hours

[/B]
Do you know why the protien/fat/meat takes a long time to digest? Because there are more nutrients in them. And again, the body is better at using the nutrients from meat as opposed to fruits, veggies and legumes! Do you know why? Because we are all MEAT EATERS....Whether we eat meat or not.



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Viroid

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From Mercola.com

Dangerous Grains

If you suffer from a condition such as osteoporosis, Crohn's disease, rheumatoid arthritis or depression, you're unlikely to blame your breakfast cereal. After all, intolerance of wheat, or celiac disease (CD), is a an allergic reaction to a protein called gluten, thought to affect only about one in 1,000 people.

But now two American clinicians, James Braly and Ron Hoggan, have published a book, Dangerous Grains, claiming that what was thought to be a relatively rare condition may be more widespread than was previously thought. Braly and Hoggan suggest that gluten intolerance does not just affect a few people with CD, but as much as 2-3% of the population.

They claim that gluten sensitivity (GS) is at the root of a proportion of cases of cancer, auto-immune disorders, neurological and psychiatric conditions and liver disease. The implication is that the heavily wheat-based western diet - bread, cereals, pastries, pasta - is actually making millions of people ill.

Your doctor, if asked about CD, would tell you that it involves damage to the gut wall, which makes for problems absorbing certain nutrients, such as iron, calcium and vitamin D. As a result, you are more likely to develop conditions such as osteoporosis and anemia, as well as a range of gastrointestinal problems.

Children who have it are often described as "failing to thrive". The proof that you have CD comes when gut damage shows up in a biopsy. The treatment, which has a high rate of success, is to remove gluten - found in rye and barley as well as wheat - from your diet.

But if Braly and Hoggan are right, the problem is far more widespread than the medical profession believes. Celiac disease, they suggest, should be renamed "gluten sensitivity" and, in an appendix to the book, they claim that no fewer than 192 disorders, ranging from Addison's disease and asthma to sperm abnormalities, vasculitis, rheumatoid arthritis and hyperthyroidism, are "heavily overrepresented among those who are GS".

Dangerous Grains contains more than a dozen case histories of people who have recovered from a wide variety of chronic conditions - back pain, chronic fatigue, the auto-immune disorder lupus - simply by following a gluten-free diet. Both authors claim great personal benefits from such a change. "After eliminating gluten grains," writes Hoggan, "I realized how uncomfortable and chronically ill I had been for most of my life."

If you are someone who has visited a clinical nutritionist or a naturopath, this will come as no great surprise. One of their most common suggestions is temporarily to remove wheat from the diet to see if it makes a difference. In fact, so widespread has talk of a wheat allergy become that last November the Flour Advisory Board felt impelled to issue a statement warning of the dangers of this idea. Professor Tom Sanders, head of nutrition and dietetics at King's College, London, was quoted as saying: "Unless you suffer from celiac disease, a very rare condition, cutting wheat out of your diet is extremely unwise."

Sanders certainly represents the mainstream medical view, but there is good evidence - such as the work of Dr Harold Hin, a GP from Banbury in Oxfordshire - to suggest that it may be in need of revision. Over the course of a year, Hin carried out a blood test on the first 1,000 patients who came to his surgery complaining of symptoms that might indicate CD, such as anemia or being "tired all the time". Thirty proved positive and a diagnosis of CD was confirmed by a biopsy.

This indicated that CD was showing up at a rate of three per 100 - 30 times more than expected. Significantly, all but five had no gastrointestinal symptoms. "Underdiagnosis and misdiagnosis of coeliac disease," Hin concluded in an article for the British Medical Journal in 1999, "are common in general practice and often result in protracted and unnecessary morbidity."

More recently, a large research program carried out by the University of Maryland Center for Celiac Research in Baltimore has confirmed Hin's findings. Scientists there tested 8,199 adults and children. Half the sample had various symptoms associated with CD and, of those, one in 40 of the children tested positive for CD and one in 30 of the adults.

But it wasn't just those who seemed ill who were having problems with wheat. Far more worrying was what the Maryland researchers found when they tested the other half of the sample, who were healthy volunteers, selected at random. Among kids under 16, one in 167 had CD, while the rate among the adults was even higher - one in 111.

If those proportions are true for the American population in general, this means that 1.8m adults and 300,000 children have undiagnosed CD - people who, sooner or later, are going to develop vague symptoms of feeling generally unwell, for which they will be offered various drugs that are unlikely to make much difference. Ultimately, they are at higher risk of a range of chronic diseases.

There seems, therefore, to be good evidence that CD is underdiagnosed. But Braly's and Hoggan's proposition is more radical than that. They believe that the immune reaction to gluten that damages the gut in CD can also cause problems almost anywhere else in the body. The evidence for this is a test involving a protein found in gluten called gliadin. When the body has an immune reaction, it makes antibodies. The test for anti-gliadin antibodies is known as AGA and people who test positive to AGA often have no sign of gut damage.

In fact, according to Dr Alessio Fasano, who carried out the University of Maryland research, "Worldwide, CD 'out of the intestine' is 15 times more frequent than CD 'in the intestine'." Braly estimates that between 10% and 15% of the US and Canadian populations have anti-gliadin antibodies, putting them at risk of conditions as varied as psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, jaundice, IBS and eczema.

The idea of gluten causing damage to parts of the body other than the gut is supported by another UK practitioner, Dr M Hadjivassiliou, a neurologist at the Royal Hallamshire Hospital in Sheffield. He ran an AGA test on patients who had "neurological dysfunction" with no obvious cause and found that more than half tested positive. What is more, only a third of the positive group had any evidence of CD gut damage. In other words, while the gluten antibodies can damage the bowels, they can also cause problems elsewhere. In this case, it was the cerebellum, or the peripheral nervous system.

So if a reaction to gluten can cause problems in the brain, might it also be linked to immune disorders? Braly and Hoggan certainly think so, and claim considerable clinical success in treating patients for conditions such as Addison's disease, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and ulcerative colitis with a gluten-free diet. In fact, almost all the body's systems can be affected (see below). So if you suffer from a chronic condition that doesn't seem to respond to treatment, cutting out wheat for a while seems worth a try.

Are you gluten sensitive?

If you suffer from any of the following, the possibility that you are GS may be worth investigating.

Upper respiratory tract problems such as sinusitis, "allergies", "glue ear"
Symptoms related to malabsorption of nutrients such as anemia and fatigue (lack of iron or folic acid), osteoporosis, insomnia (lack of calcium)
Bowel complaints: diarrhoea, constipation, bloating and distention, spastic colon, Crohn's disease, diverticulitis
Autoimmune problems: rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, Crohn's disease
Diseases of the nervous system: motor neuron disease, certain forms of epilepsy
Mental problems: depression, behavioral difficulties, ME, ADD
---------------------------------------------
DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

As many of you know, one of the key components of my eating plan is vastly reducing to eliminating the grains in your diet for optimal health. I am glad to see this issue increasingly addressed in books and other media, and want to take this opportunity to make an announcement:

In the early spring of 2003, Putnam will be publishing my first major book called The No-Grain Diet, which will be available in bookstores throughout the U.S. and beyond. The No-Grain Diet will address the issues in the article above and more; even more important, it will provide you a comprehensive and practical approach to implementing an individualized dietary plan with the aid of Metabolic Typing that leads to your healing, ideal weight and optimal health.

In addition to its focus on my eating plan, what will set The No-Grain Diet apart from other dietary and health books is my focus on maintaining the healthy habits you adopt; whether people change their diet to lose weight, heal a disease, guard against illness, or simply improve their health, they are often successful at the start.

However, as time goes by, most fall right back into the old patterns that sabotaged their health in the first place. This is because there was only a focus on changing negative physical habits, not changing negative emotions contributing to those habits. In The No-Grain Diet, I will show you how, by using EFT, you can eliminate those negative emotions and far more easily maintain your healthy eating plan and lifestyle for good.

As for the gluten referenced in the article above, it is a protein in wheat, barley, rye, oats and spelt and can cause problems in many individuals that are completely independent of its disruption of insulin homeostasis.

As for grains in the human diet overall, there is fairly strong Paleolithic evidence that 10,000 years ago most humans did not consume many grains. They were hunter-gatherers who subsisted mostly on vegetables and meats. 10,000 years is a mere blip in a biological sense for humans: over 99% of our genetic make-up was in place, in fact, before we ever started consuming grains.

When considered from this perspective alone, it is not too surprising that grains can cause a wide array of health issues: contemporary humans have not suddenly evolved mechanisms to incorporate the high carbohydrates from starch- and sugar-rich foods into their diet.

Some of my patients ask me why, if grains "are bad," the Bible would reference them as acceptable. I am no biblical scholar and so cannot comment on whether the words used in the Bible (and translated from original sources) actually mean "grains" or food in some larger sense.
---------------------------------------------
Wheat Can Cause Poor Growth and Developmental Delay in Infants
A 15-month-old girl with celiac disease presented with microcephaly and developmental delay. Her head growth resumed when she was off of gluten and returned when she started it again. Additionally she developed a loss of reflexes.

All the symptoms resolved when she eliminated gluten.

Pediatrics 2001 April; 138(4):589-92


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

Add yet another problem with wheat ingestion. Admittedly this is just a case report in a child with celiac disease. But what most of us don't realize is that sub clinical celiac disease is a HUGE issue.

If a child has developmental delay it would certainly seem prudent to apply a gluten free diet. One can apply the food choices I have already developed.

An earlier study in Pediatrics indicated that as many as one in 33 children may have celiac disease.

My experience is that the true incidence is probably much higher still, perhaps on the order of 1 in 10 people. The bulk of us however, even without celiac disease, do NOT benefit from having wheat. It is one of the primary reasons why people get sick in this country.

It is amazing how many people's chronic health complaints clear up once they stop the wheat. Some clinicians believe that no one can digest a protein in wheat called gliaden. Our body attempts to break this protein down by attaching an enzyme to it.

This gliaden enzyme complex in a high percentage of people actually stimulates an autoimmune reaction that can cause the full blown syndrome of celiac disease, or more commonly sub-clinical celiac disease which is generally characterized by a variety of chronic health complaints, most of which are intestinal.

However, I have seen many rashes disappear within days, once gluten was stopped. So, the moral of the story, is that if you have a chronic health complaint try avoiding gluten for two weeks and see if you improve. That approach is certainly far less expensive and more accurate than any diagnostic technique currently available.
But, anyway, I am not making an absolute blanket statement that grains "are bad;" instead, I am stating that most of us would definitely benefit by either drastically reducing or eliminating them from our diet, and throughout Mercola.com, and in my forthcoming book, The No-Grain Diet, I show you why.
--------------------------------------------- Wheat Can Cause Severe Headaches

According to the results of a small new study, some people may experience migraine headaches due to an unexpected culprit: wheat.


The investigators found that limiting gluten -- a protein found in wheat, oats, barely, rye and spelt-


Reduced symptoms of severe headache in seven out of nine patients.


Gluten sensitivity can include celiac disease, an inherited inability to digest gluten that results in abdominal distention, vomiting, diarrhea, muscle wasting and lethargy.


Other conditions can also develop, including neurological problems or dermatitis herpetiformis -- blister-like lesions on the elbows, buttocks and knees.

The only treatment is strict avoidance of gluten.


The study showed that these patients had a sensitivity to gluten, and magnetic resonance imaging scans suggested they had inflammation in the central nervous system.

Nine of the ten patients tried a gluten-free diet, and seven stopped having headaches. Two other patients had some -- but not complete -- success by switching to a gluten-free diet. One patient did not follow the diet.


Neurology February 2001;56:385-388


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

Admittedly this is a small study, but out of ten patients 7 had their headaches stop completely. Two had them improved and I have to wonder about their compliance to the gluten. Only one did not improve and that was the person not following the program.

Absolutely amazing.

Wheat is not good for most of us. Some of us tolerate it, but most would benefit by avoiding it. The unfortunate problem is that most of us are addicted to it
---------------------------------------------
Wheat Sensitivity (Subclinical Gluten Intolerance) Linked To Repeated Miscarriages
Women who experience recurrent miscarriages or those whose fetuses show intrauterine growth retardation may have undiagnosed celiac disease.

Celiac disease is a genetic condition that causes those afflicted to experience difficulty absorbing gluten, as found in wheat, oats, barley, and several other grains. Symptoms include diarrhea, abdominal distention, and fatigue. And research suggests that more people may have a symptomless, milder form that may often go undetected. Recent studies have indicated that many people are found to have mild forms of the disease when their blood is tested for the condition, even though they were unaware that there was a problem.

Women who experience repeat miscarriages, also known as recurrent spontaneous abortions (RSA) or intrauterine growth retardation (IUGR)--a condition in which a baby is born significantly smaller than normal--may have celiac disease that has gone undetected.

Researchers, led by Dr. Antonio Gasbarrini, explain that they decided to look at celiac disease since it is a common cause of malabsorption of food in western countries. And for some time, miscarriages have been correlated with celiac disease.

Gasbarrini and colleagues conducted blood tests for the condition in 44 patients with RSA, 39 with IUGR, and 50 healthy women. None of the healthy women were found to have celiac disease, but the condition was detected in 8% of the women with RSA and 15% of those with IUGR.

Biopsy samples from the intestine confirmed diagnosis in eight of nine patients whose blood tested positive for the disease.

Women having recurrent miscarriages or intrauterine growth retardation could have subclinical celiac disease, which will usually go undetected.

Celiac disease has been correlated with infertility, and with other conditions, including birth defects in children whose mothers could not absorb folic acid while pregnant because they had undiagnosed celiac disease, she said. It makes sense that the condition could lead to other problems related to too little nutritional intake, she pointed out. Spontaneous abortions could feasibly result if the mother was failing to absorb vitamins and minerals required by the baby, researchers explained. If celiac disease is responsible for some of these problems, it is easily treatable by avoiding products containing gluten.

The Lancet July 29, 2000;356:399-400

COMMENT: Intolerance to gluten is a common condition, affecting a significant proportion of the population. Recent research has put the figure as high as 1 in every 33 people, but my experience tells me that it is more like 1 in every 10 people.

Wheat really does not serve most of us well, even the organic whole-grain types. It is best avoided or severely limited by most of us. For those who care for women with recurrent miscarriages wheat intolerance causing a subclinical celiac disease should be considered.

As far as miscarriages go, a very high percentage of them are due to progesterone deficiencies. Any woman who has had a miscarriage should be properly tested with salivary hormone tests by a physician who is experienced with this.
---------------------------------------------
If you are interested there is more info at mercola.com

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Pimp For A Living

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Dude, that Mercola guy is a f*cking psycho.

Let's see, who are we going to believe, the American Cancer Society and the American Dietetic Association, or some guy with a website?

Hhhmm...

I find it pathetic that people who eat meat get all mad at vegetarians, like we really care what the f*ck they eat.

Meat digests slowly not because it has more nutrients (where the f*ck did you get this idea?), meat digests slowly because human beings are not naturally made to digest meat.

All carniverous animals have VERY short digestive tracts in their bodies for the purpose of quickly passing meat.

Humans have digestive tracts that are ten to twelve times the length of their body.

So what, you ask?

Well, the problem there is that because the tract is so long, the meat that you consume has an opportunity to putrefy and rot in your stomach and intestines, which it does not in true carnivores.

What happens when it rots in your stomach?

Well, that rotting flesh sticks to the lining of your digestive tract, and hinders it's ability to absorb necessary nutrients in the body.

So, even if meat DID have all of the phantom nutrients that you talk about, the act of eating it would hinder the body's ability to absorb those nutrients.

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"Pimpin' them hoes since God only knows..."

[This message has been edited by Pimp For A Living (edited 10-10-2002).]
 

Pimp For A Living

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Oh yeah, you forgot to add this disclaimer to your articles...
Disclaimer - Newsletters are based upon the opinions of Dr. Mercola. They are not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and they are not intended as medical advice. They are intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Mercola and his community. Dr. Mercola encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified health care professional.

------------------
Pimp For A Living
"Pimpin' them hoes since God only knows..."
 

oblizue

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Originally posted by Pimp For A Living:
Dude, that Mercola guy is a f*cking psycho.

Let's see, who are we going to believe, the American Cancer Society and the American Dietetic Association, or some guy with a website?

Hhhmm...

I find it pathetic that people who eat meat get all mad at vegetarians, like we really care what the f*ck they eat.

Meat digests slowly not because it has more nutrients (where the f*ck did you get this idea?), meat digests slowly because human beings are not naturally made to digest meat.

All carniverous animals have VERY short digestive tracts in their bodies for the purpose of quickly passing meat.

Humans have digestive tracts that are ten to twelve times the length of their body.

So what, you ask?

Well, the problem there is that because the tract is so long, the meat that you consume has an opportunity to putrefy and rot in your stomach and intestines, which it does not in true carnivores.

What happens when it rots in your stomach?

Well, that rotting flesh sticks to the lining of your digestive tract, and hinders it's ability to absorb necessary nutrients in the body.

So, even if meat DID have all of the phantom nutrients that you talk about, the act of eating it would hinder the body's ability to absorb those nutrients.

We are made to eat meat, that's why we're omnivores. Just eat a balanced diet and excercise and that's good enough.
 

Viroid

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Originally posted by Pimp For A Living:
Dude, that Mercola guy is a f*cking psycho.

Let's see, who are we going to believe, the American Cancer Society and the American Dietetic Association, or some guy with a website?


OR you can choose to believe the FREAKING STUDIES I posted.

You didnt even read through it, did you?

Pediatrics 2001 April; 138(4):589-92
Wheat Can Cause Poor Growth and Developmental Delay in Infants
A 15-month-old girl with celiac disease presented with microcephaly and developmental delay. Her head growth resumed when she was off of gluten and returned when she started it again. Additionally she developed a loss of reflexes. All the symptoms resolved when she eliminated gluten.

Neurology February 2001;56:385-388
Wheat Can Cause Severe Headaches


The Lancet July 29, 2000;356:399-400
COMMENT: Intolerance to gluten is a common condition, affecting a significant proportion of the population. Recent research has put the figure as high as 1 in every 33 people, but my experience tells me that it is more like 1 in every 10 people. Wheat really does not serve most of us well, even the organic whole-grain types. It is best avoided or severely limited by most of us. For those who care for women with recurrent miscarriages wheat intolerance causing a subclinical celiac disease should be considered.

And heres some more studies:

Curr Opin Pediatr 2002 Oct;14(5):567-9
Diet and gastrointestinal disease.
Hyams JS.
"In celiac disease, the dietary restriction of gluten is curative of the intestinal inflammation."

Science 2002 Sep 27;297(5590):2218-20
BIOMEDICINE: Gluten and the Gut-Lessons for Immune Regulation.
Schuppan D, Hahn EG.

Celiac sprue is a common disease in which an immune response to the gluten in wheat results in an inflammatory reaction in the small intestine that can prevent the absorption of nutrients. (<--did you read that?
) In a Perspective, Schuppan and Hahn discuss new work (Shan et al.) that identifies a 33-amino acid peptide in gluten that contains the major immunogenic epitopes. This discovery opens the door to developing therapeutic strategies to treat celiac sprue by destroying this peptide.

If you want more studies, just let me know.


Meat digests slowly not because it has more nutrients (where the f*ck did you get this idea?),

Its not an idea, its a fact and you are wrong again.


Heres the nutritional values for a 100 gram porterhouse steak:

Proximates
Water g 53.95
Energy kcal 283
Energy kj 1182
Protein g 23.61
Total lipid (fat) g 20.15
Ash g 1.08
Carbohydrate, by difference g 0.00
Fiber, total dietary g 0.0
Sugars, total g 0.00
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 7
Iron, Fe mg 2.96
Magnesium, Mg mg 22
Phosphorus, P mg 194
Potassium, K mg 278
Sodium, Na mg 65
Zinc, Zn mg 4.59
Copper, Cu mg 0.130
Manganese, Mn mg 0.015
Selenium, Se mcg 19.7
Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 0.0
Thiamin mg 0.100
Riboflavin mg 0.230
Niacin mg 4.237
Pantothenic acid mg 0.316
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.367
Folate, total mcg 7
Folic acid mcg
Folate, food mcg 7
Folate, DFE mcg_DFE 7
Vitamin B-12 mcg 2.19
Vitamin A, IU IU
Retinol mcg
Vitamin A, RAE mcg_RAE
Vitamin E mg_ATE 0.181
Tocopherol, alpha mg 0.18
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g 7.430
4:0 g 0.000
6:0 g 0.000
8:0 g 0.000
10:0 g 0.034
12:0 g 0.036
14:0 g 0.518
16:0 g 4.655
18:0 g 2.168
20:0 g 0.017
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated g 9.275
14:1 g 0.122
16:1 undifferentiated g 0.728
18:1 undifferentiated g 8.403
20:1 g 0.022 0
22:1 undifferentiated g 0.000
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated g 0.676 0
18:2 undifferentiated g 0.460
18:3 undifferentiated g 0.190
18:4 g 0.000 0
20:4 undifferentiated g 0.026
20:5 n-3 g 0.000
22:5 n-3 g 0.000
22:6 n-3 g 0.000
Cholesterol mg 69
Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.255
Threonine g 1.088
Isoleucine g 1.210
Leucine g 2.075
Lysine g 2.202
Methionine g 0.666
Cystine g 0.254
Phenylalanine g 1.018
Tyrosine g 0.861
Valine g 1.269
Arginine g 1.585
Histidine g 0.764
Alanine g 1.427
Aspartic acid g 2.343
Glutamic acid g 3.771
Glycine g 1.132
Proline g 1.001
Serine g 0.945

Pretty nutrient dense, huh?

meat digests slowly because human beings are not naturally made to digest meat.

THEN WHY DO OUR STOMACHS CONTAIN ENZYMES WHOSE MAIN FUNCTION IS TO DIGEST MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????????

Your knowlegde of nutrition is lacking. Im getting tired.

All carniverous animals have VERY short digestive tracts in their bodies for the purpose of quickly passing meat.

We are not carnivores and we are not herbivores(because we dont have 4 stomachs). We our OMNIVORES!!!!! JUST LIKE THE PRIMATES! Which, by the way, have 98% of the same DNA we have.

Humans have digestive tracts that are ten to twelve times the length of their body.

So what, you ask?

Well, the problem there is that because the tract is so long, the meat that you consume has an opportunity to putrefy and rot in your stomach and intestines,


Not if youre getting enough fiber everyday!

What happens when it rots in your stomach?

Well, that rotting flesh sticks to the lining of your digestive tract, and hinders it's ability to absorb necessary nutrients in the body.


not if youre eating enough fiber.

So, even if meat DID have all of the phantom nutrients that you talk about, the act of eating it would hinder the body's ability to absorb those nutrients.


NOT IF ONE WAS EATING A HEALTHY DIET WITH PLENTY OF FIBER! Without fiber, anything will stick.


------------------
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"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious!" - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE
 

diplomatic_lies

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I'm a meat-eater myself, but I don't mind vegetarians. Theres nothing wrong with them, they've got their beliefs like everyone else. If it wasn't for the taste and iron, I would be a vegetarian myself. Its actually healthier for you, although you don't build up your body (which is probably why female vegetarians are less likely to be fat sh!ts).


Also, speaking of whats "right" and "wrong", do you know that the human teeth are actually build for vegetables, not meat? If you want to get into evolution, our canines are NOT as good as real meat-eaters. Our teeth are flat and often mash up food rather than bite it.


If you can easily chase after a deer, tear its flesh raw with your teeth, then eat it, then evolution designed you to be a meat-eater.


Although I avoid buying stuff where animals are treated cruely (if I know about it). I believe in the power heirarchy in life (strongest kills weakest and eats them), but I don't believe in deliberatly inflicting pain. Does a lion play with a deer before eating it?
 

Viroid

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Originally posted by diplomatic_lies:
Its actually healthier for you,

Let me remind everyone again. You can eat meat and STILL EAT HEALTHY! Just as healthy as SOME vegetarians who know what their dietary needs are. Alot of vegetarians just stop eating meat because they think they will be more healthy. A lot of these people know nothing about their dietary needs (vitamins, minerals, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids). These are the same people who go to their Dr and get blood tests done because they arent feeling good. Then a week later the Dr comes back with the results and says, "start eating meat or die."

Also, speaking of whats "right" and "wrong", do you know that the human teeth are actually build for vegetables, not meat?

First of all, you dont know whats right and whats wrong when it comes to this topic. Sorry.

If you want to get into evolution, our canines are NOT as good as real meat-eaters.

Thats because we are NOT CARNIVORES! We are Omnivores! Look at the teeth of another omnivore: The primates.

Our teeth are flat and often mash up food rather than bite it.

What planet are you from?

If you can easily chase after a deer, tear its flesh raw with your teeth, then eat it, then evolution designed you to be a meat-eater.

What are you talking about? Evolution dosent design a species. The species adapts to an enviroment. And since the human species has been eating meat for about a hundred thousand years, we evolved to eat meat.

Of course, we couldnt chase a deer down. We had spears, bow and arrows and traps to kill deer.



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"Fear is for...getting your confidence." -STEVEN HELLER, PhD

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Viroid

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Speaking of deer.

Hunting season is about a month away. I cant wait to go get me some sweet sweet deer meat.

BTW, venison is probably the best red meat you can eat. Packed with protien and nutrients and very low saturated fat. Thats because they arent grain fed like the cows on the farms are.

And for the vegans who dont eat meat because of moral reasons:

Dont eat vegetables either. It appears they have a nervous system and feelings too.

AND dont use any anti-bacterial soap!!




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"Fear is for...getting your confidence." -STEVEN HELLER, PhD

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious!" - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE
 

diplomatic_lies

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Viroid, a lot of herbivores have the same teeth structure as we do.

And yes, we DO mash up our food before swallowing it. Notice how you eat a chunk of meat, then spit it out - and it looks more like its "mashed" rather than torn to pieces?

Anyway, my point is that I don't see why you really care about vegetarians. So some people are vegetarian....what does it matter? Will it kill you? I probably like women who are vegetarians better. They're less likely to be fat (unless they pig out on chips), and usually they have more compassion for animals (even if I don't).


Also, I've never known a vegetarian to try to "convert" me into being one. Thats Christians who usually do the converting.

I probably see more meat-eaters trying to convert vegetarians than the other way around.


Again - what is your point in trying to attack vegetarians? Did a vegn girl dump you or something?

[This message has been edited by diplomatic_lies (edited 10-21-2002).]
 

Bones

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If you don't care then why do you keep on defending vegetarianism? Viroid has proved you wrong several times now.
 

Viroid

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Originally posted by diplomatic_lies:
Viroid, a lot of herbivores have the same teeth structure as we do.

Yeah. Because we can eat a lot of the same food they do. But can they eat meat? NO! I remember reading a study and the subjects were these cute furry rabbits (herbivores). Well, they decided to put them on a carnivorous diet (all meat). Guess what happened...they were all dead by the end of the week.

And yes, we DO mash up our food before swallowing it. Notice how you eat a chunk of meat, then spit it out - and it looks more like its "mashed" rather than torn to pieces?

Yeah. Its called mastication. ALL mammals do it and are the only vertebrates that masticate. So, whats your point?

Anyway, my point is that I don't see why you really care about vegetarians. So some people are vegetarian....what does it matter? Will it kill you?

No. What I dont like are vegetarians who think that meat is not good for you. It is clearly the opposite. And I HATE the ones who think they are somehow superior to you because they dont eat meat. Most vegetarians are vegetarians because they want to start eating 'healthy' and most of them dont know what eating healthy is. They just set themselves up for diseases because they dont know their dietary needs.

Dont get me wrong. There is a way to eat healthy and fulfill your dietary needs and be a vegetarian. BUT it is easier to be a healthy meat eater. This is because meat is very nutrient dense and is digested and absorbed by the body in the high 90%.

I probably like women who are vegetarians better. They're less likely to be fat (unless they pig out on chips), and usually they have more compassion for animals (even if I don't).

Only if she eats YOUR 'meat', right?


Also, I've never known a vegetarian to try to "convert" me into being one.

Thats because subconsciously, deep down, they realize that meat is healthy for you because its something the human body evolved to eat and, therefore, uses meats nutrients VERY efficiently.

I probably see more meat-eaters trying to convert vegetarians than the other way around.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe its because there are a lot more meat eaters in this world than vegetarians. Most of those vegetarians THINK that meat is bad for you and that vegetarianism is the healthiest way to eat.

Again - what is your point in trying to attack vegetarians?

Read above. And Im not attacking them.

Did a vegn girl dump you or something?

I dont think id ever date a vegan girl. All the ones ive seen look sickly.

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"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious!" - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE
 

diplomatic_lies

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Soshyopathe: Yes, I see your point now!

Viroid: Yes, you've proved me wrong. Unfortunately I'm not a doctor and only make my deductions based on the behaviour of other people.

Your medical information is right (how long do you spend looking it up?), or at least I assume its right.


But many vegetarians are healthier than meat-eaters, and I don't see the point of telling them what to eat and what not you eat. Your first post indicated that vegetarians are wrong for not eating meat.

My great grandfather was a vegetarian, and he was healthy and strong. Was a vegan at birth (buddhist beliefs), fought in 2 civil wars, survived a famine the 1960s during the C Revolution, and took daily jogs for 5 miles at the age of 80, ate more than I do at his age, and died at 95.

Not all vegetarians are sickly and skinny little shrimps. Just like not all meat-eaters are fat sh!ts that sit on their arse in front of the TV.
 
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