Can you be a nice guy and still get it?

[Zirko]

Well, as some of you know already, my two previous attempts with females didn't turn out the way I wanted them to.

I've read The Game and have been reading stuff here and there but find it difficult to put it into practice. I'm real good at certain sports and at uni but this stuff is really hard for me.

If you're interested to know how the two previous dates turned out, you can check my other thread.

I'd like to handle this without being an AFC which I've been for 29 years now. I'm open to criticism and any sort of advice and will most likely put it into practice.

I will meet another girl, probably tomorrow. We'll go skiing together along with some other people.

We write to each other daily and she always writes how happy she is to get my messages. I'm 6 years older than she is but I don't think that's a problem really.

I don't want to act like a chump. She's not from around here and I've corrected one of her emails. She said she was moved by that and found me kind and patient.

The thing is, I don't want to just sleep with her. I'd like something serious. I'd rather not play games but it seems like woman like to play this game of seduction.

I'd like to draw her something but I don't want to end up being the ''nice guy'' again so I'm stopping myself.

How should I handle this? I'd like to know.

If I was being myself I would be protective and caring and kind and try to make her smile and everything. But every time I've done that in the past it blew up in my face and I got the friendship line or ended up being used for one thing or another.

I don't want to be an ******* to her or manipulate her but being ''good'' has always ended up in disaster before. I don't know what to do.

I would really appreciate your input and advice. Please be honest and don't tell me the politically correct thing to do. Females often give pretty bad advice when it comes to other women for some reason.

Hope to hear from you guys soon,

Oh yeah:

P.S.: [no homo]

 

[Weezy]

1... I read "The System" by Doc love, it's super tight for pulling LTR's...
2... Quit writing her every day, make her want it more.
3... Do not draw her sh1t, or write her poems, or anything like that.. If you really like doing that stuff, wait till after she's asking you to be in an LTR.
4... Never reveal your feelings to her until she has first, and never ask what your status is, or are you guys BF/GF.
5... Kick it with her only a 1 or 2 times per week, and just have made fun when you do.

That's it.. Keep her happy, having fun, and wanting more and she'll chase you down.

 

[Ease]

P.S.: [no homo]

The problem here is that your post was indeed pretty homo.

The whole idea of making a girl interested is appearing not needy and strong. A man who chases a girl, draws pictures and tries to make her smile is not a confident man who attracts women. A confident man attracts women by being himself, being flirty, being fun, being a MAN.

When you try to do things, even because you want to, it makes you appear unmanly and she loses interest.

Be playful, yes. Be fun, yes. Be adventerous, be interesting, be angry, be happy, everyone has their own qualities. You DO NOT do anything else however.

Wanting a relationship is the wrong mindframe because you try too hard to make it work. Its needy and again, not manly. Women are attracted to men. Women are attracted to you when you pull back and dont seem to eager, when u play hard to get and give them less than they want. Give them too much, and they lose interest and will blow up in your face like you've experienced.

So what should you want? Its manly to want the following things: Dates, kissing, sex, fun.
Its womanly to want: Relationship, affection, kids etc.

So yes, ask her out, kiss her, escalate, **** her. All these are good. After you've done this, do it again, and before you know it you have a relationship. This is how it works.

These seem like 'games', but this is female psychology. Its not games, its a fact of life.

 

[Zirko]

Alright, since you both mentioned being against the drawing I guess I won't do so. I'll take your word for it.

Wanting a relationship is the wrong mindframe because you try too hard to make it work. Its needy and again, not manly. Women are attracted to men. Women are attracted to you when you pull back and dont seem to eager, when u play hard to get and give them less than they want. Give them too much, and they lose interest and will blow up in your face like you've experienced.

Well, it's a good thing I read that because I was about to draw her a picture (I draw fairly well) and write her name next to it and everything. So I won't do that, I'll just show her my stuff instead.

So what should you want? Its manly to want the following things: Dates, kissing, sex, fun.
Its womanly to want: Relationship, affection, kids etc.

Well, I partly agree here. If only women wanted to have kids we'd have been extinct a pretty long time ago.

But anyway, I get your point.

 

[thedude4242]

no homo actually sounds homo.

 

[Zirko]

Yup, I still have a lot to learn.

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

There are alot of great posts in the Bible that may answer some of your problems.

Pook - Be A Man!
Senor Fingers - Weapons of Mass Destruction
Pook - Kill That Desperation
Gunwitch - The Key Is Masculinity

Read some of those posts. They are very inspirational...

 

[Erik V]

If I was being myself I would be protective and caring and kind and try to make her smile and everything. But every time I've done that in the past it blew up in my face and I got the friendship line or ended up being used for one thing or another.

Do that, just ... not so much. Don't try to think of favors to do for her. Just try to have a good time together with her, that is what she is looking for. Go to different places: start the date by going to some unusual store that you would like to buy something in, and then go to some event, and then to have coffee somewhere. Make it more about the places you are visiting, than about her and you. Be upbeat and carefree, not protective and the other things you mention; act like you have had lots of coffee and it's a sunny payday and you don't have a problem in the world, and you just got kisses from ten girls who were just dying to chase you down. That is a good way to start the change from being a Nice Guy to being a nice guy who is also good at making a girl interested in you.

 

[K2000kidd]

The KEY is making her want you.

If you try to please her/win her approval/impress her or worse find yourself constantly asking "will she like this, will she like that" and changing to fit her mold, you will end up as the FRIEND who helps her move and not the guy she is riding the high hard one with after she gets moved in.

 

[zekko]

Okay, you're six years older than her. This is an ADVANTAGE. She's 23, show her what a mature, worldly, manly guy is. Why should you want to waste your time with just a kid? Make her qualify herself to YOU. That should be your mindset. You shouldn't be trying to impress HER by drawing her pictures.

Be yourself but with more of a hard edge to it, a little more swagger and self assuredness. She should be looking up to you. A woman wants a MAN who will LEAD her. Do NOT act needy, jealous, or insecure about the nature of your relationship. Be fun and playful, make her laugh. And I agree with what everyone else said.

The thing is, I don't want to just sleep with her. I'd like something serious.

It doesn't sound like you know this girl all that well. Here's the deal on "serious" relationships. You can't just pick someone out of a crowd and decide you want a serious relationship with her. You have to get to know her, and if you're compatible, then you can start thinking about that sort of thing if you like. Too often guys want to rush into a serious relationship without knowing their partner. You need to get to know the woman, then decide if a long term relationship is a good idea.

 

[Zirko]

Wow, thanks for all the great advice.

I never really had a male role model when I was a kid so I was mostly raised by women so it's great to get the guy's perspective on this.

I'll do my best to do all of this and let you know how it went.

PS: Before I forget.

When I invited her to go skiiing I said:

1. Make sure you are free to go skiing tomorrow afternoon.

I was wondering if that would be considered rude or something? I thought that would put me in charge and everything. I thought it was better than:

2. Would you like to go skiing with me?

Which sounded AFC and needy to me.

Do you reckon that's the best way of going about this? I mean, when wanting a date with someone or is it too agressive?

 

[bukowski_merit]

The thing is, I don't want to just sleep with her. I'd like something serious. I'd rather not play games but it seems like woman like to play this game of seduction.

Are you not a sexual man? Are you not a flirtatious man? You state later on that you want to make women smile. NOTHING can make them smile more than being a good flirt with them. Being open about being sexual. And enjoying their company in a non-friendly way. Guys who often get friend-zoned - are too busy trying to impress the woman with their niceness... ....

About 6 months ago - i got out of a car with a woman. She said, "where are we?" And we were at a walking trail at a local state park, and that is what i told her. So we're walking on the walking trail. Laughing, flirting, i smacked her ass, she attempted to smack mine back.... Child like stuff.... Then i said, "Get on my back"... "I'll hurt you" she replied... "Shut the fvck up and get on my back" I said very sternly to her.

So, she hopped on my back and i started running frantically through the woods. What do you think is going through her mind? Probably, "This guy is fing crazy but i'm having a lot of fun". Then i ran up a very steep hill, and was about to pass out when we got to the top. That's when she saw it.... A picnic blanket and basket right at the top of the hill....

"What's all this stuff?" i said while laughing. "You did all this?" she said. "No no, i had all my boys do it for me. In fact they're showing up with violins any minute"... And she just had a big @ss grin on her face. And so we ate the food i prepared. Poured some wine. Took some pictures with her phone. And then... we fvcked hardcore for a hour (i made sure the hill was in a secluded area; this took a lot of planning).

This is considered "nice guy" stuff. But i still did it. And i guarantee - she'll never forget it. But my FRAME is such that i can pull off stuff like this. And any woman you plan to keep around for longer than a few months WILL need moments like this. Maybe not as extreme, but you should get opportunities to let your niceness out from time to time. You just have to NOT LET IT MAKE YOU A CHUMP!

You have to make her want to stick her tongue down your throat.... Not pat you on the head and say "good boy."

PLEASE NOTE: The woman in the story was someone i had a semi-relationship with for about 8 months before doing what i did. I would NEVER advise anyone to do anything like this pre-sex and pre-hardcore emotional connection!

I'd like to draw her something but I don't want to end up being the ''nice guy'' again so I'm stopping myself.

You can draw her something. Draw a stick figure of her... And be sure to draw ugly hair on the stick figure and maybe exaggerate her curves a little. If it's something that looks like you spent hours on - then you can expect to be friend-zoned pretty soon. Later on down the line - if you guys become something - you can maybe draw her something for a special occasion.... I write poetry - through trial and error - i've learned to NEVER write poetry for someone until the feelings are huge on their part... and i NEVER reveal too much in the poetry... mostly just take their memory back to a moment we shared and make her relive it with things added for extra spark...

If I was being myself I would be protective and caring and kind and try to make her smile and everything. But every time I've done that in the past it blew up in my face and I got the friendship line or ended up being used for one thing or another.

Making her smile isn't a horrible thing. Being caring isn't a horrible thing as long as you don't overdue it to the fact that you're a chump. You just have to learn to do those things in a way that attracts women to you.

I don't want to be an ******* to her or manipulate her but being ''good'' has always ended up in disaster before. I don't know what to do.

No woman that i've ever had any kind of "more than sexual" relationship with - thinks of me as an ******* ... nor do they think of me as a "good" guy... there is a balance... and manipulation is not necessary. Only understanding female psychology. Which is what a lot of the articles you read and advice that is given revolves around.

Females often give pretty bad advice when it comes to other women for some reason.

Don't ask for advice. Just talk to women in general about women. Show them that you know a little (which would take some knowing), and believe me - they'll tell you a lot less junk.

 

[Ease]

Yes perfect, show her your drawings. You're a person with hobbies and skills, show her your passions in life. But the moment you act like she is your passion, you fall into the 'trying to impress her' trap.

And yes, saying 'make sure you're free tomorow to go skiing' was perfect aswell. You were spot on, asking 'would u like to' was AFC. Confident and masculine is the way to act.

When in doubt, think of what clint eastwood would say. He wouldnt ask nicely or worry about being polite, he would take charge like a man and lay down the law. And once you've said something, dont back down on it, be strong.

You're an intelligent man good luck.

 

[Zirko]

Update

I just got off the phone with the Chinese girl.

It's weird because first of all she called at 22h00 which is kind of late. I mean, I wouldn't call anyone past 21h00 unless it was urgent or something.

I wrote in my email that I would call her tomorrow. When she called me she said:

''You wanted me to call you right?''

I'm surprised she would've misunderstood such an easy sentence as ''I'll call you tomorrow'' considering she's an English major... or maybe I'm being too optimistic about this.

Anyways, we talked for about 30 minutes and she was laughing a lot. She told me that the other girls were really disappointed that I didn't go skiing with them the day before (I was supposed to). I could tell she was comfortable and she was talking a lot.

We were chatting about how she should practice her French more if she wants to improve and blah blah. It was an interesting conversation but I didn't want it to last to the point where it got too drawn out so I decided to end it when it was still good.

So I said:

''Well, Huan (that's her name), I have to go now it's getting late. I'll pick you up tomorrow at 17h00.''

Then we agreed she would call me at 12h00 tomorrow.

Anyways, make a long story short, I'm glad she called and I'm glad about the way I handled. I also showed my drawings and she said she was well impressed. I said I was going to draw her picture.. sorry, I think I went AFC there but I mean, it's not that bad is it?

Then she was chatting to me in Chinese and she was impressed that I could understand and she said my Chinese was better than her French (which is true, her French is pretty bad).

We'll meet tomorrow. I didn't tell her what we'd do, I told her it would be a surprise and she was excited about it.

I think I took charge and wasn't clingy or anything.

What'd you think?

 

[pua1989]

whatever you do, dont draw her that god dámn picture

 

[SchoolBoy]

It sounds like you're starting to get it...

avoid 30 minute phone conversations, keep it short enough to do a bit of flirting then setup a date.

You don't want to talk too long on the phone as it gives away all the conversation material when you actually get together in person.

Next time you feel you need to do something AFC like draw her picture, STOP YOURSELF.

Real men have self-control. Since you know that drawing a picture is AFC, yet you do it anyways.

Acting on emotions not logic is a feminine trait.

DO NOT DRAW THE PICTURE.

-SchoolBoy​

 

[PlaysToWin]

Tell her you'll draw her naked.

 

[seano99]

DONT DRAW THE PICTURE!

however.....

later on she'll probably occassionally ask if/when she's getting it.. and she may even really want it so she'll convince you to draw it. unfortunately that will be a sh1t test and if you give it to her, you fail and her IL drops. be careful.

damn. easy to see from the outside.

 

[SchoolBoy]

draw the picture, lose her interest... unless u draw her naked like PlayToWin suggests

 

[Igetit!]

Well, as some of you know already, my two previous attempts with females didn't turn out the way I wanted them to.

If you're interested to know how the two previous dates turned out, you can check my other thread.

Yeah,well I went and had a look at your other thread about the other two interactions you had,and man,frankly,I'm sort of speechless.



UN...FREAKIN'....BELIEVEABLE.


Were you serious? I mean it was hard to me to put my mind around what you did.




You liked this girl. You wanted to date her. So what did you do?


You offered her $10 a hour to teach you Arabic???




You didn't ask her out on a date,you OFFERED HER MONEY to teach you the Arabic lanuage.


And then you seemed *SHOCKED* that it didn't turn into some type of relationship.


And with the other girl,you DID seem to be (as you put it) a "provider".



I realize that you're new here,and you're still trying to get your feet under you with this whole "dating" thing,so I'm trying to so easy on you.



However,I HAVE TO BE a little rough on you.



In your other thread,you seemed to be really hurt/disappointed over the way those girls treated you.




Since that's the case,I'd rather you feel a little heat from us than to go out and repeatedly keep getting hurt and disappointed by women to the point where it causes you to get bitter or angry towards them.




Your situation IS FIXABLE.


You DON'T HAVE TO keep getting the "friendship" line or be used by women....BUT it will require you to be open-minded.




You'll have to abandon some things you believe to be true (that really aren't),and you'll have to be willing to say and do some things that you'd think would never work in a million years.



Dude,I've been where you are. It sucks.


It sucks to be doing all you know to be doing...and still fail.



It sucks to see other guys display what you consider to be mean,crude,or insensitive behavior towards a girl,only to have her head over heels in love with him.



You have a misunderstanding of attraction for women.


It's NOT like you think.



You can't barter or exchange goods and services for attraction.



That thing you did where you offered that girl money to teach you arabic was a business arrangement,that's ALL.


There were no feelings or emotions involved. At least not from her side.




You can't pull a bait and switch dude.


You can't turn a verbal contact of you exchaning money for language lessons into sexual attraction.




You two had a "deal" where you paid her 10 bucks an hour,you didn't pay her for one of those hours,then when she told you that you owed her $10,you were shocked?


YOU'RE THE ONE who made this deal up,and when she follow thru with it,you were hurt?




Be honest. You were really paying her for her company.




You tried to lure her near you with money,then you figured that as long as she was around you for all that time,maybe you could turn it into something more.




You might as well just be honest because you CAN'T BE HELPED until you do.




You CAN BE HELPED,and things can turn around for you.



It won't be easy for you because your BIGGEST HURDLE will be your OWN MIND,but it is doable.



For starters,you need to listen to what everyone has been telling you about drawing her this picture.



Either don't draw it at all,or go with Playstowin's suggestion.



You seem to be afraid to reveal your sexual side to women.



NEWS FLASH:Girls already know we want to have sex with them.


It's ok to flirt and be sexual. I said sexual,NOT VULGAR OR OBSCENE.



In my opinion,that's just one of the many things that seems to be missing in your interactions with girls.



I've seen NO SEXUALNESS from you. None.



You've been nice,accomodating,friendly,and a somewhat all-around "good guy",but that's it.


If you don't get sexual,girls will say,"He's nice,but I don't "feel" anything",meaning they feel no spark,no passion,no chemistry.




You need to learn this. Otherwise you might go another 29 years of being "friends" with women.