Can Women Seduce Men?

[Desdinova]

This is something I've been pondering for a while. This site exists so that men can seduce women. But, can a woman actually seduce a man?

Do you think that an ugly fat chick would ever be able to win over a man by using her own techniques? Would she be able to if she had a good chunk of money in her posession?

 

[Jitterbug]

History is full of examples of an attractive (but not overly so) woman using female seduction techniques to win over an alpha male (often a king or prince) and defeat competitions from more attractive and higher status women. Seduction techniques are very powerful for females if they're on a man's sexual ladder - but I don't think they can help the woman to get on that ladder in the first place if she isn't attractive enough.

 

[Jamo]

This is something I've been pondering for a while. This site exists so that men can seduce women. But, can a woman actually seduce a man?

Do you think that an ugly fat chick would ever be able to win over a man by using her own techniques? Would she be able to if she had a good chunk of money in her posession?

I'd rationalize that it is not quite the same thing. Women look for security (money is one benchmark), and men look for a genetically sound mate (attractiveness is one benchmark).

I'd say (you are free to attack me on this) the only way a fat ugly chick has a chance in seducing a man if he is of very low status/self esteem, or purely because of her (equally hefty) status/wealth. At least this would be true in Western modern culture. During the middle ages a fat woman was in vogue because it was a sign of health (food was a scarcity). I have read of a culture in Northern Africa that till today operates at this level

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Female seduction = show up naked, bring beer.

Interesting topic. I think the obvious answer is that the seduction dynamic is different for women. Men are stimulated primarily by the physical, but there's a lot more a woman can do to be seductive. Quite honestly I think seduction is a lost art for women. Very few women know how to be sexy, much less seductive. Even fewer ever feel a need to be seductive. This is due to an environment that, for the past 40 years, has simplified sexual exchange for women to the point that all she need do is stay somewhat fit and wear a thong occasionally. So many men have become so acclimated to just these visual prompts as sexual cues that women don't really need to learn seduction. There is no greater reward for being sexy or seductive beyond what she's already capable of prompting in a man, so seduction practices aren't reinforced for her.

Now add to this the feminine priority westernized culture has placed on women's sexuality. Any woman feeling a need to be seductive for a man is cast in the role of putting his sexual value above her own. Remember, according to Cosmo and Oprah it's HIM who needs to be sensitive to her needs. Her sexuality is a GIFT he qualifies for, not something she should ever feel a need to sell to him with seduction.

Maybe a better question is, when was the last time a woman seduced you? Or for that matter, when was the last time a woman you were with initiated sex at all? When did a woman put in any extra effort that surprised you?

Women don't need to seduce men anymore. The feminine-priority dynamic has put a default value on women's sexuality. Those hot enough to simply wear something revealing never need seduction, and those not hot enough can't sell it anyway. And the girls who're in between - the one's who'd benefit most - are discouraged from learning seduction since it's denigrating to women who should already be on a pedestal to begin with.

 

[Colossus]

Female seduction is as old as written history. Look back in the Old Testament at the story of Samson and Delilah. The thing is, female seduction needs the woman's sexuality in order to to be operative at all; whereas men can seduce with words, money, and the right social factors.

Women seduce men by means of sensuality: food, drink, and sex. I dont think money is an effective seduction tool for women....just doesnt make sense. If the woman seducing doesn't have some sexual appeal to the man in question, no seduction is going to happen, period.

In other words, I'm pretty sure there is nothing a 250 lb heifer could do to seduce me into have sex with her.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

The devils' in the details. It's like the "push pull" dynamic. When she's pushing like a lineman, seduction is on her mind.

And RT is right, beer and nakedness gets me every time

 

[Da Realist]

All seduction comes down to is either creating a need or filling one that was already there. With that said, a woman can seduce a guy. The only question is the guy himself because that deteremines how hard she'll have to work.

 

[jonwon]

Lets look at it this way:

Would a guy honestly date a 7 who was a giver:

She can cook, wants to cook for you, goes out of her way to make you new things, asks your opinion on what you’d like to eat, then makes every effort to make that dish for you. Then she brings you the meal with a smile on her face, she then asks you if you’d like a cup of coffee with it, then goes into the kitchen to make that, comes back - happy and content.

You go home and she is there, dressed in a sexy outfit that raises her attraction level a notch, to around a 8. She greats you with a naughty smile and to put extra effort into the outfit, she pretends to pick something up off the floor.

She turns up at your house, with new cloths - a new top, a new pair of jeans, some trainers or some shoes, but the biggest thing about it is; – the cloths are your kind of stuff, their what you would buy yourself. She gives you them and expects nothing in return, she is just happy that your happy.

She's at home and your at work, she tidies the house up, even when you haven’t asked her to, she even goes that extra mile in cleaning.

Your in the bath, she turns up with a cloth and starts cleaning around the bathroom, because she is bored and it needs a clean. Not forced, just natural.

She works and earns decent money, she pays for her own way, never expects you to fund her lifestyle, she even pays for nights out if your short on cash, willing to even buy you things for the house, because eventually she will move in anyway – i.e she wants you so she goes the extra mile to get you and rationalizes it through relationship speel.

She goes out with her friends and never not once tells you about men trying it on with her, she never talks about other guys in that way, she doesn’t even have any male friends.

Her friends are good girls tm, i.e if she did anything ‘like that’ she would get flack from her friends for it, not for the sake of cheating, but more for the sake of sleeping around.

Her family are still together, her father and mother have a lot of love for her, she is healthy, no issues, nothing if anything a giving caring nature.

Laughs at your jokes, even though sometimes there not that funny.

Never argues, always backs down in a potential argument.

Calls you alpha names like, lord of the house, even buys you cups called 'lord of the manner'.

When your sick, she cooks for you, goes to the shops for you, makes sure your comfortable, does not nag or put extra pressure on you, she gives you space.

Does not mind if you go out with your friends, yeh she cares because she may think your going to stray, but she doesn’t make an issue about it, other than saying “be good”, with a smile, even if you stroll in at 6 in the morning, she wont make a deal about it.

Does not deny you sex, if anything tries to please you, gives great blow-jobs, dresses up – borderline slut in the bedroom but a lady out of it.

Does not cause a fuss or make an issue if you do your hobby, even if thats playing a computer game for an hour or two.

Makes every effort she can to look attractive for you.

She speaks highly of you to her friends and family.


Or date a 10, who looks good and that's about it.

Yes I believe women can seduce men, I've just described my current GF. I've dated and slept with many tens, and hardly any come close to the level of what this girl will do - I usually find girls lower down the attraction scale compensate in other ways to get 'the man'.

 

[Colossus]

Great post Jonwon.

Very similar to my current gf. She is the only, and I mean the ONLY girl I have dated that initiates sex as much or more than me...and never turns it down. If she is on her period she always gives a full bj---without me prompting for it!! Often times I am the one turning her down!! Never thought that day would come.

Cooks, buys me things, does not pine for me to spoil her...understands when I dont have much cash.

She wants to please me, and in turn I have more of a desire to please her. She is maybe a 7 on any given day. She can look very good, but also can look rather average. Thing is, the 9's Ive dated treated me like garbage. They dont care about anything but their own convoluted lives. I agree with Duffdog's maxim---all hot women cheat.

 

[muscleman]

Cleopatra & Mark Anthony is a great example; contrary to media portrayal she wasn't that hot, but knew how to seduce. I suggest you read The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene, many example of women seducing men in there.

 

[Mex]

Wow jonwon, you just described my ex. When I read that I felt like I was listening to my friends tell me how stupid I was for letting her go.

And actually, I have a story which is pretty gross. One time she flushed her pad and it clogged (this is at my place by the way). She didnt realize this obviously, and I took a dump and it flowed out and onto the floor...EVERYTHING (told you it was gross). But the point is I told her it was her fault for clogging it and she cleaned it up with out any hesitation, AND APOLOGIZED TOO! She was not grossed out by it, and after she finished the day just continued as any other. In my book, ant girl that will clean up you $h1t and smile about it is worth at least 1 more point. If she does 75% of the things jonwon mentioned also, you need to ad another 1. So a 7 can become a 9...you might consider this women seduction.

But I agree completely. I would take a 7 with all that over a 10 with nothing else to offer any day. But maybe because I am not a 10 myself. But does that mean that there are no 8s or 9s who can give all that too? It seems hard to imagine to me, and I certainly could not imagine a 10 giving half of those things, probably because they simply will never have to do them to keep their guy happy.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I suggest you read The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene, many example of women seducing men in there.

I have. And I'll agree it's a great read; more women today should read it and re-learn what they developed into an art so long ago. This is exactly my point; ever since the sexual revolution there's been less and less motivation for women to develop seduction skills. If anything there's a resentment for ever having needed them in the past. I'd argue that feminine seduction skills have been replaced with emotional and psychological manipulations (see BPD) in order to make men comply with their imperatives as a result of having abandoned them.

I think it's DESDINOVA's point that it's MEN who are learning seduction skills now. How many men do you suppose have read the art of seduction in comparison to women? It's men who've created a global community dedicated to seduction techniques - this WAS a woman's realm - that only few notable men like Don Juan, Cassinova and Valentino (to name a few) were ever recognized in history for practicing.

Perhaps this is evidence of the gender reversal we talk about here so often? Women's sexuality has been elevated to such a degree that it's men who find it necessary to collectively study seduction.

I would take a 7 with all that over a 10 with nothing else to offer any day. But maybe because I am not a 10 myself. But does that mean that there are no 8s or 9s who can give all that too? It seems hard to imagine to me, and I certainly could not imagine a 10 giving half of those things, probably because they simply will never have to do them to keep their guy happy.

Agreed. Exceptionally hot women have far less to motivate them to develop domestic skills, empathy and seduction skills. She's automatically rewarded for even the slightest hint of her sexual availability, why would she ever need to learn seduction?

As far as JONWON and your own HB 7 ex housemate is concerned, I'd argue that what made her noteworthy wasn't seduction so much as it was her demonstrating value added in order to mask a deficit. I'm not doubting that either of you appreciated her efforts, but was it a learned seduction on her part that gave you this appreciation, or was she selling you on her domesticity and empathy? I would say there's a difference.

 

[radiodude]

An excellent post!

This is the key to understanding the problems in male-female dynamics these days.

Seductive women are naturally, whether a 7 or 10, far more seductive and thus receive in turn what they want from a man far more often.

Men and Women have lost their way with each other nowdays. We expect the most from each other without giving an inch.

The former dynamic which worked was:

Women seduce, Men sweep.

A man was to be seduced and women worked hard at it because said man was a prize and his value, charm and character caused her to want him. Ont he other hand, a woman who was seductive and fulfilling to her man was to be cherished because she was a woman to be kept and fought for.

This was the natural balance and order of things.

My how far we have fallen now.

 

[Sinistar]

Do you think that an ugly fat chick would ever be able to win over a man by using her own techniques? Would she be able to if she had a good chunk of money in her possesion?

I have no doubt the woman you described could somehow win over a guy (win over = resulting in intimacy or LTR?) using techniques, assets, etc.

But if you look at the opposite and compare numbers I believe a guy (lets say a fat 7 with money, power, etc) would be able to tally up way more seductions. In other words given similar circumstances, the guys will do way way better at seduction.

Think about it, a unattractive women brings nothing that a MAN truly wants. A MAN will be comfortable with everything else in his life (health, wealth, power, etc). When it comes to women, he can be selective and how hot she is will matter. If he's rich, her money isn't going to make her any more attractive.

Of course, we have rampant AFC'ism so some of the guys out there will be wowed by her money and be "won over" but they still won't find her anymore attractive. The odds of a successful LTR developing will dwindle (if even making it that far).

Turning it around, he may be unattractive phsysically but he does at least bring one key ingredient - security. I think a HB9 who hasn't landed a attractive sugar daddy (yet) will be far more likely to be seduced by a skilled, confident otherwise overweight guy worth $5M, a 7000sf house, etc, etc.

Maybe a related scenario to consider. Let's say 100 DJ's (older, married for several years, wealthy, happy, etc) all went on vacations with a buddy or two for a week - someplace warm where lots of hot chics go to escape winter. Let's say while there, a 9+ comes onto each one while the buddies aren't around. In other words, they know (and the seductress knows!) they'll never be caught. How many of these true DJ's would be able to resist her if she approached. If she kino'd just enough but not too much. If her EC was perfect. If she oozed zero doubt of rejection. She hints of having another drink up in her room. I can imagine some very hot women right now and answering honestly I wonder if I'd pass that test - and my wife is hot!

Will all 100 of these DJ's pass the test? Will 50 pass? Will any pass? They're skilled enough to know her desire level is cranked, but would they be skilled enough to realize it's a well thought out seduction vs raw natural attraction.

Which raises another question, when a woman is extremely attractive does it even matter to a guy if it's seduction vs attraction? (Probably the same for women if she senses she'll receive hat perfect level of security).

Actually, now that I think about it maybe the easiest seductions for women are cougars and younger guys. Younger guys have a fascination with hot older women believing they're more experienced, better at relationships, more fun, etc. A cougar (who really wanted to seduce a younger guy vs just letting them come to her) should have little trouble getting all the way to an LTR. Younger guys haven't seen the light yet when it comes to being self sufficient. Meanwhile here comes this hot 38yo with a nice house, fancy car and seemingly no worries. The young AFC doesn't stand a chance.

It's funny, the only differences from the cougar seductress and the fatty HB7 are the appearance and the target age of the guy. But the odds of success are once again, way better for the cougar with a nice house and some dough.

RT's right about the nut jobs. Although unwitting manipulators, they are extremely good at using predictable patterns and methods to get what they need from men.

Interesting topic Des.

 

[trent81]

I was seduced for over four months by a married woman. She tried every trick in the book. She finally got me into bed after two months. She was more aggressive then I ever remember myself being with women.

 

[speed dawg]

Act like a stripper and be remotely attractive. Done.

 

[samspade]

I've been seduced by women. That's not to say I didn't do my part, but most recently, it was in a setting where my focus was on admittedly more attractive, though possibly less available, females. You can argue that I was employing seduction techniques by hitting on all the girls and acting alpha (this was in an office), but the one I banged was not necessarily my first choice, and she really worked hard for my attention. In fact, I even passed up on the opportunity once, which must have really stirred her pot because she came at me again with a full court press.

She did not, in the end, win me over in an LTR, though she tried.