The ugly one will still want to fvck the attractive one. They may agree to a friendship but it'll be a rather phony one.KontrollerX said:
Hey, why is there a rule that you are not supposed to fvck your female friend?
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
Can men and women be just friends?
- Thread starter g188
- Start date
Hey, why is there a rule that you are not supposed to fvck your female friend?
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
I have a couple of friends who are girls. But the thing is that I don't always hang out with them, the interaction is occasional. Even then, there is a still enough of an attraction where I wouldn't mind if things got sexual. It is possible to be friends with a girl but I still think there will always be that attraction present, whether it be you being attracted to her or her being attracted to you.
AirborneDoc82ndABN
Don Juan
I honestly think it is impossible for guys and girls to be "just friends"..
The thing you really have to worry about is that I guaruntee she tells these guys that you are jealous, etc..
Have you met the guys? See thats my biggest thing, if I met the guy and talked to him then its different. But there is no way I would be comfortable with my girlfriend hanging with a guy I don't know. Me personally, I would tell her it bothers me, because I can PROMISE you if the situation was flipped, she wouldn't be "cool" with you chillin with a girl, especially if the girl is better looking than she is.
I've dealt with this in the past in a long distance relationship. Girl talking to her ex. I ask her not too because I know he wants to sabotage us. She says "okay" but when things get rough between us, turns to him. Talks to him on the DL. And then a few weeks later she made decision to "hang out" with him and he plows her guts in. So based on my past experiences I would wanna meet the guy and see what he is all about and feel him out. But thats just me..
Hope it works out for you.. How is her interest in you? You fvcking her regularly?
The thing you really have to worry about is that I guaruntee she tells these guys that you are jealous, etc..
Have you met the guys? See thats my biggest thing, if I met the guy and talked to him then its different. But there is no way I would be comfortable with my girlfriend hanging with a guy I don't know. Me personally, I would tell her it bothers me, because I can PROMISE you if the situation was flipped, she wouldn't be "cool" with you chillin with a girl, especially if the girl is better looking than she is.
I've dealt with this in the past in a long distance relationship. Girl talking to her ex. I ask her not too because I know he wants to sabotage us. She says "okay" but when things get rough between us, turns to him. Talks to him on the DL. And then a few weeks later she made decision to "hang out" with him and he plows her guts in. So based on my past experiences I would wanna meet the guy and see what he is all about and feel him out. But thats just me..
Hope it works out for you.. How is her interest in you? You fvcking her regularly?
KontrollerX
Master Don Juan
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No.suavesuave said:
Thats how AFC's start and end up unwittingly sticking themselves squarely in the friend zone.
DJ's on the other hand approach a chick like a potential hook up or girlfriend fully sexualizing the situation and making their intentions known.
AFC's instead fvck themselves in the ass by again going the friend route and being covert and the girl taking them at face value considers them just a friend sticking them squarely in the friend box which is next to impossible to crawl out of once in.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
OK lets start with the friends dynamic since this is a good jump off point for other areas. Let me begin by laying something out for you that I'm sure is a staple ideology for you - that of intergender 'friendship'.
First off, men and women cannot be friends, or at least not in the way or to the degree that most people perceive same sex friendship to be. Now the natural resoponse to this is "I have lots of female friends" or "what are you trying to say, I can't have female friends, they're all enemies?" Which of course is the standard binary (black or white, all or nothing) retort and the trained AFC thinks anyone suggesting that men and women's relations as friends could be anything less than equitable and fulfilling is just a neanderthal chauvinist thinking. But you are incorrect - not because you wouldn't want to actually be a woman's friend, but because she cannot be yours. There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender friendship.
Quite simply there are limitations on the degree to which a friendship can develop between men and women. The easy illustration of this is that at some point your female "friend" will become intimately involved with another male; at which point the quality of what you perceived as a legitimate friendship will decay. It must decay for her intimate relationship to mature. For instance, I've been married for 12 years now; were I to entertain a deep freindship with another female (particualrly an attractive female) other than my wife, my interest in this woman automatically becomes suspect of infidelity - and of course the same holds true for women with man-friends. This dynamic simply doesn't exist for same sex friendships because the sexual aspect is inconsequential.
It's not to say that you cannot have female aquaintances, or that you must necessarily be rude or ignore all women with contempt, that is binary thinking once again, but it is to say that the degree of friendship that you can experience with women (as a man) in comparison to same sex friendships will always be limited due to sexual differences. Most men will only ever engage in friendships with women that they find attractive and/or interesting which of course is colored by their attraction to that woman. Now I'm sure you'll play the "not in my case" card and attempt to tell me how much an exception to the rule you are, to which I'll say, even if you legitimately are, it makes no difference. Because the very nature of an intergender friendship is ALWAYS going to be limited by sexual differences.
Even the best, most asexual, platonic, male-female friendships will be subject to mitigation based on sex. The easy example is; I'm sure you'd be jealous and suspect of your girlfriend were she to be spending any "quality time" with another 'male-friend'. It's simply time spent with another male who isn't you and you'll always question her desire to do so in favor of spending time with you.
So get out of your head now that you're even in a so called "friend zone" with any woman. There is no friend zone - there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off, or you do the same when you become so involved with another girl.
First off, men and women cannot be friends, or at least not in the way or to the degree that most people perceive same sex friendship to be. Now the natural resoponse to this is "I have lots of female friends" or "what are you trying to say, I can't have female friends, they're all enemies?" Which of course is the standard binary (black or white, all or nothing) retort and the trained AFC thinks anyone suggesting that men and women's relations as friends could be anything less than equitable and fulfilling is just a neanderthal chauvinist thinking. But you are incorrect - not because you wouldn't want to actually be a woman's friend, but because she cannot be yours. There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender friendship.
Quite simply there are limitations on the degree to which a friendship can develop between men and women. The easy illustration of this is that at some point your female "friend" will become intimately involved with another male; at which point the quality of what you perceived as a legitimate friendship will decay. It must decay for her intimate relationship to mature. For instance, I've been married for 12 years now; were I to entertain a deep freindship with another female (particualrly an attractive female) other than my wife, my interest in this woman automatically becomes suspect of infidelity - and of course the same holds true for women with man-friends. This dynamic simply doesn't exist for same sex friendships because the sexual aspect is inconsequential.
It's not to say that you cannot have female aquaintances, or that you must necessarily be rude or ignore all women with contempt, that is binary thinking once again, but it is to say that the degree of friendship that you can experience with women (as a man) in comparison to same sex friendships will always be limited due to sexual differences. Most men will only ever engage in friendships with women that they find attractive and/or interesting which of course is colored by their attraction to that woman. Now I'm sure you'll play the "not in my case" card and attempt to tell me how much an exception to the rule you are, to which I'll say, even if you legitimately are, it makes no difference. Because the very nature of an intergender friendship is ALWAYS going to be limited by sexual differences.
Even the best, most asexual, platonic, male-female friendships will be subject to mitigation based on sex. The easy example is; I'm sure you'd be jealous and suspect of your girlfriend were she to be spending any "quality time" with another 'male-friend'. It's simply time spent with another male who isn't you and you'll always question her desire to do so in favor of spending time with you.
So get out of your head now that you're even in a so called "friend zone" with any woman. There is no friend zone - there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off, or you do the same when you become so involved with another girl.
“The 22 Rules That Turned Me From Invisible to Irresistible With Women… Starting Tonight”
You can skip the expensive cars, the fancy clothes, and the endless gym selfies. Completely unnecessary.
I used to freeze the second a beautiful woman looked my way. Frustrated. Awkward. Watching other guys walk away with the girl while I stood there tongue-tied.
Then I discovered 22 simple rules that rewired my entire dating life. The anxiety vanished. Conversations flowed effortlessly. Women started chasing me for a change.
These rules trigger a woman's subconscious attraction switches. And you can start using them tonight.
I think it is up to the individual, though I must say that I have had more female friends than male ones up until quite recently in my life. Now it is pretty much balanced.
In Australia there are many different influences and cultures inter-mixed, so I have friends from many different racial groups. Can't say that Muse S' experience has been mine: I seem to get lots of girls wanting to be friends with me, and my motivatuion is not to get laid anymore than theirs is. They know that when I am in a relationship with someone, or even when I am not, I am not about to create any tension.
In Australia there are many different influences and cultures inter-mixed, so I have friends from many different racial groups. Can't say that Muse S' experience has been mine: I seem to get lots of girls wanting to be friends with me, and my motivatuion is not to get laid anymore than theirs is. They know that when I am in a relationship with someone, or even when I am not, I am not about to create any tension.
I am just friends with several girls. I don't find them to be my type, but they are cool people, so why not be friends with them?
I dont think I could ever just be friends with someone I dated a long time though. I dont even try that approach.
I dont think I could ever just be friends with someone I dated a long time though. I dont even try that approach.
My gf has a couple guy friends she hangs out with but they are gay so no problem!
And in most cases yes the guy friend will be secretly wanting your girl and maybe even try to make a play, but it comes down to the trust you have in her.
And in most cases yes the guy friend will be secretly wanting your girl and maybe even try to make a play, but it comes down to the trust you have in her.
My last ex ALWAYS hung out with these 2 guys. People would always come to me telling me they saw my gf with these 2 guys, and she was holding hands, with them, giving kisses on cheek etc... They thought she was cheating. Her 2 best guy friends were totally gay (they were actually a couple)
Worked out great for me, they'd take her shopping, go to girlie movies, plays etc... while I stayed at home and would watch football. Ah was the life.
Worked out great for me, they'd take her shopping, go to girlie movies, plays etc... while I stayed at home and would watch football. Ah was the life.
TheHumanist
Senior Don Juan
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Friends is in practice a very general term in (at least in western culture). Many friendships are more acquaintanceship than any real genuine friendship. Many others are friendship of utility shared by common needs or goal then an actual direct connection.
Can a man and a women be friends in terms of being able to talk, interact, be cool with, and go out as only friends? Yes.
Can they become a deep friendship or a true friendship? No. Eventually something will happen.
The line between friend and relationship simply start to blur. If a healthy, close relationship have the same qualities as a deep and true friendship, what reason for the sexual element to not get involve unless it is somehow completely platonic (like too ugly to have any attraction). Eventually, such a friendship would find the line too blurry and would cross over or would drift/repel as new relationships on either party.
Of course, there's the friendzone (I don't RT just aid there's isn't one), but that not really friendship of any form to begin with. If a guy try to get a girl and fails but continue to put energy to her, that's not friendship at all. Nor is a girl keeping a circle of guys as orbiters, they're orbiters, not friends of the girl.
Can a man and a women be friends in terms of being able to talk, interact, be cool with, and go out as only friends? Yes.
Can they become a deep friendship or a true friendship? No. Eventually something will happen.
The line between friend and relationship simply start to blur. If a healthy, close relationship have the same qualities as a deep and true friendship, what reason for the sexual element to not get involve unless it is somehow completely platonic (like too ugly to have any attraction). Eventually, such a friendship would find the line too blurry and would cross over or would drift/repel as new relationships on either party.
Of course, there's the friendzone (I don't RT just aid there's isn't one), but that not really friendship of any form to begin with. If a guy try to get a girl and fails but continue to put energy to her, that's not friendship at all. Nor is a girl keeping a circle of guys as orbiters, they're orbiters, not friends of the girl.
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
Interesting subject... I've an open mind on it but after hearing all the arguments I'm begining to think that women and men cannot have a normal friendship like men with men or women with women.
I think there needs to be nothing sexual there for real comfort to develop in a friendship.
Thinking about every successful intergender relationship I know it has always been with women and gay men or women with AFC's who were clearly out of the womens league and both parties knew that therefore there wasn't going to be anything awkward there.
Regarding the AFC's being friends with women alot of the time it's not friendship at all it's just women keeping AFC's around to give them an ego boost.
Men on the other hand always try to become friends with good looking women and stay away from the ugly women.
I think there needs to be nothing sexual there for real comfort to develop in a friendship.
Thinking about every successful intergender relationship I know it has always been with women and gay men or women with AFC's who were clearly out of the womens league and both parties knew that therefore there wasn't going to be anything awkward there.
Regarding the AFC's being friends with women alot of the time it's not friendship at all it's just women keeping AFC's around to give them an ego boost.
Men on the other hand always try to become friends with good looking women and stay away from the ugly women.
Da Realist
Master Don Juan
If these guys have been around since you met her, why complain now? You got her and they didn't. Now if these guys seem to just pop up out of nowhere, check them out. The best thing to do is to keep being as good, no, better than what you were when you got with her and to be trusting without being too naive.
ghostrider943
Don Juan
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you're still an AFC. seriously, no DJ will ever worry about a woman's guy friends. You need to reframe that you're the prize and that she should be more worried of her losing you than the opposite.
As for the guy friends, if she just considers them friends, that's what they are. Chances are they're orbiters; guys who want sex but made the mistake of being her friend to do it when she may not even be attracted.
So please, do not worry about this kinda ****.
As for the guy friends, if she just considers them friends, that's what they are. Chances are they're orbiters; guys who want sex but made the mistake of being her friend to do it when she may not even be attracted.
So please, do not worry about this kinda ****.
Attractology
Don Juan
If your girl has guy friends they should be your friends too. Looking at it from the other perspective; if I am hanging out with a girl I know has a boyfriend and I am not friends with the guy, there is nothing stopping me from getting with her.
The real issue is how you handle this situation without coming off as jealous and really pushing her away. Make some girl friends of your own since the door is open for that. Always keep in mind the person with the most power in a relationship is the person most willing to walk away.
The real issue is how you handle this situation without coming off as jealous and really pushing her away. Make some girl friends of your own since the door is open for that. Always keep in mind the person with the most power in a relationship is the person most willing to walk away.
"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.
If a girl has too many close guy friends, that's a red-alarm. Not because it necessarily means she's 'effing them, but you have to wonder about a girl who cannot relate to other women. I think men and women can be just friends. I have female friends that I have no sexual interest in whatsoever and the feeling is mutual. Of course I also have female friends I secretly would love to bang. But there's no either/or answer on this topic.
jafyk
Master Don Juan
Well, personally for me this is still a field I'm undecided about but I'm leaning more towards the notion that men and women can't really be friends. For me it's not really about the sexual dilema. I notice with guy friends most times it doesn't matter if they are in a relationship or not they make time to call just for the sake of doing so and find time to hang out. When they call it's not to necessarily complain about this or that. With females it tends to be one sided. They hardly call and when they do there's usually some alterior motive behind (maybe not always) like they are bored, or have a relationship problem and want someone to talk to about it, or they need a favor. Yet this so called female friends will quicky get off the phone with you and even though they say they will call you back they don't or call you back days or a week later. Yet when you need them to be there for you. You can't find them. So, what kind of friendship is this? I'm more with Rollo Tomassi on this.
I don’t, for a second, believe that men and women can’t be friends. Perhaps what is really being said is that one doesn’t normally have a sexual interest in their same sex friends.
I’m a very likable guy, very social. I get invited to hang out with people all the time. One can say that I have many friends. Of course, with the females I evaluate them as to their sexual desirability. But I can’t even begin to have sex with them all. The women who I have sex with are women who I am friends with. I have never had sex with a woman who I was not friends with.
When I was a child I always had close male friends but in my adulthood all my closest friends have been female. The reason is clear. With women I can achieve an intimate meeting of minds that is only superficial with other men.
If I were to engage in an activity that required absolute secrecy and trust, such as a crime, I would always pick a female to be my partner in crime. That is why George Bush has Condoleezza Rice. She’ll never betray him.
I’m a very likable guy, very social. I get invited to hang out with people all the time. One can say that I have many friends. Of course, with the females I evaluate them as to their sexual desirability. But I can’t even begin to have sex with them all. The women who I have sex with are women who I am friends with. I have never had sex with a woman who I was not friends with.
When I was a child I always had close male friends but in my adulthood all my closest friends have been female. The reason is clear. With women I can achieve an intimate meeting of minds that is only superficial with other men.
If I were to engage in an activity that required absolute secrecy and trust, such as a crime, I would always pick a female to be my partner in crime. That is why George Bush has Condoleezza Rice. She’ll never betray him.
jafyk
Master Don Juan
My goodness what is Mr. Potatoe here talking about? There's no promise Mrs Rice can't betray President Bush. While some of your personal experience can't be discounted I do think that there are few gray areas in the male-female friendship. I didn't have doubts about it until I came to America. I've had a female friend decide I shouldn't call her again because I didn't do her a favor. It seems many people use so called friends of the opposite sex for alterior motive like social proof (guys) and ego boosters (girls).potato said:
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.