Can I get a perspective on this?

[CCFCmid]

I recently stated a new job and work closely with a girl (same position), we hit it off straight away and within the first hour he was opening up to me all about her life, made it known extremely early on that she was single. Very open anf forthcoming with info, some quite personal stuff too about troubles she's had, health, friend's suicides/self harm stuff. We both work in mental health anyway, so it's not really as unusual a topic as it would be in most professions.

So anyway we get on really well and for the first feew days everything is excellent, then because we were spending so much time together (she was teaching me the job before she had next three weeks on holiday leave) i started to get a bit bored of her. But then she went off on hols for three weeks. In that first week, she had initiated number swap and texts/ meeting up outside - I gave her the bait, she took it; we added on fb (i initiated) and then for the three weeks she's been off she's text almost everyday, we've met up a few times and it's been good. She is still messed up over an self-harming ex who is still trying to hold her in that position and it is affecting her badly. She has a lot of friends tho some of which are blokes, one in particular is such an AFC paying for all meals, supplicating etc. It's funny to think I used to be like that lol She thinks he's lonely.... aww!

Meanwhile I've played the whole C&F, push/pull, kino, minimal compliment thing better than I ever had. I think partly due to the fact that I could take her or leave her really,it would be nice to get together but I'm not overly bothered, this is definitly not a case of oneitis. Trouble is while she texts, sometimes for hours on end till bed, I am taking that as an IOI as well as other things she does, IOIs are much rarer in person with her tho, and I'm not sure if she does this with all of her other male friends?

In terms of kino, I've done a fiar bit in accordance with push/pull and she has become a lot more comfortable with touch with me, she will initiate slight kino and participate in it but nothing overt 'I like you/this' kino if you know what I mean.

So now I just wonder how to take it to the next step, going out 2moro, I'm thinking assume the interest as far as attraction, deviate conversation more onto sex when opportunity arises, throw in kino and make a bold move for the kiss? It's difficult to know where she is...

I was thinking something along the lines of mentioning AFC about if he's made a move yet, and suggesting that if we'd met up like they did, I would've made a move first date (which I would have, the only reason I havn't yet id the work issue and wondering if how close we work would bore me, but after a week together at work this week, I don't think we'd see each other as much as I thought t work), guaging interest, then saying something like but that was before i knew how ****ed up she was about ex... and teasing her that she wouldn't know what to do if i made a move, and teasing her that i might/might not and lead it to the if she earned it, dominating style (which is what I've been running pretty wel with her so far).

What do you guys think? It's not really a run-of-the-mill situation. All opinions welcome. And apologies for the essay Apologies also for any typos I'm just getting used to a new laptop keyboard.

 

[kingsam]

I recently stated a new job and work closely with a girl (same position), we hit it off straight away and within the first hour he was opening up to me all about her life, made it known extremely early on that she was single. Very open anf forthcoming with info, some quite personal stuff too about troubles she's had, health, friend's suicides/self harm stuff. We both work in mental health anyway, so it's not really as unusual a topic as it would be in most professions.

So anyway we get on really well and for the first feew days everything is excellent, then because we were spending so much time together (she was teaching me the job before she had next three weeks on holiday leave) i started to get a bit bored of her. But then she went off on hols for three weeks. In that first week, she had initiated number swap and texts/ meeting up outside - I gave her the bait, she took it; we added on fb (i initiated) and then for the three weeks she's been off she's text almost everyday, we've met up a few times and it's been good. She is still messed up over an self-harming ex who is still trying to hold her in that position and it is affecting her badly. She has a lot of friends tho some of which are blokes, one in particular is such an AFC paying for all meals, supplicating etc. It's funny to think I used to be like that lol She thinks he's lonely.... aww!

Meanwhile I've played the whole C&F, push/pull, kino, minimal compliment thing better than I ever had. I think partly due to the fact that I could take her or leave her really,it would be nice to get together but I'm not overly bothered, this is definitly not a case of oneitis. Trouble is while she texts, sometimes for hours on end till bed, I am taking that as an IOI as well as other things she does, IOIs are much rarer in person with her tho, and I'm not sure if she does this with all of her other male friends?

In terms of kino, I've done a fiar bit in accordance with push/pull and she has become a lot more comfortable with touch with me, she will initiate slight kino and participate in it but nothing overt 'I like you/this' kino if you know what I mean.

So now I just wonder how to take it to the next step, going out 2moro, I'm thinking assume the interest as far as attraction, deviate conversation more onto sex when opportunity arises, throw in kino and make a bold move for the kiss? It's difficult to know where she is...

I was thinking something along the lines of mentioning AFC about if he's made a move yet, and suggesting that if we'd met up like they did, I would've made a move first date (which I would have, the only reason I havn't yet id the work issue and wondering if how close we work would bore me, but after a week together at work this week, I don't think we'd see each other as much as I thought t work), guaging interest, then saying something like but that was before i knew how ****ed up she was about ex... and teasing her that she wouldn't know what to do if i made a move, and teasing her that i might/might not and lead it to the if she earned it, dominating style (which is what I've been running pretty wel with her so far).

What do you guys think? It's not really a run-of-the-mill situation. All opinions welcome. And apologies for the essay Apologies also for any typos I'm just getting used to a new laptop keyboard.

A
Only an AFC brings up other men…it shows you are threatened (at least subconsciously) by the other men…however AFC you think they are. DON’T say you’re not threatened as it wouldn’t even have come up in your mind if you weren’t at least a tiny bit!

B
Why did you add her on Face book – you have now totally removed any chance of being a challenge as she can see every thing about you…nice move!
you should have held out on adding her to FB for as long as possible… even if she adds you…(it winds them up – an is the opposite what every other horn-dog does so makes you stand out…)

C
You’ve been out a number of times already and haven’t made a move... such a DJ!

D
This girl is a work college…that’s a ‘NO NO’ for many people? (Even more a NO NO for people with such a “damaged” girl like yours!)

E
ALSO the biggest problem is how much baggage this girl has…
- Her ex is still affecting her…
- She is needy – texting you all the time, and I wonder how many other people she hardly knows that she tells intimate personal stuff to! i bet you've replied to her every day she text as well!
- This girl has come on REALLY fast… this is the type of girl who will also LEAVE you really fast!
these are big red flags that you seem not to have noticed!

It's funny to think I used to be like that lol

HAHA yeh good one!

 

[CCFCmid]

Haha, love it! Gotta love the maturity of it, I guess you've got to ask yourself why do you feel the need to try and berate someone on a supposedly supportive internet forum, simply because you percieve (wrongly) that person to believe they are a DJ? Did it make you feel better? Should I expect any different from someone who wishes to call themself 'king'sam?

On that note, can you point out where I claimed to be a DJ? Or not claim to be an AFC for that matter?

paying for all meals, supplicating etc. It's funny to think I used to be like that lol

It appears that you took from that sentence, that I somehow see myself as a DJ, but if you actually read it, without whatever emotional head baggage you are carrying, then I am simply saying I can't believe I used to pay for all meals and supplicate to women.

Now onto your points....

A
Only an AFC brings up other men…it shows you are threatened (at least subconsciously) by the other men…however AFC you think they are. DON’T say you’re not threatened as it wouldn’t even have come up in your mind if you weren’t at least a tiny bit!

I don't bring them up, They have only come up in conversation from her end (possibly as a reason to make herself seem more sought after I don't know?). The reason I mention it in the message is because I trying to validate her texting style as an IOI (or not) which would require information about her text styles with her other males friends. Seems reasonable to me.

B
Why did you add her on Face book – you have now totally removed any chance of being a challenge as she can see every thing about you…nice move!
you should have held out on adding her to FB for as long as possible… even if she adds you…(it winds them up – an is the opposite what every other horn-dog does so makes you stand out…)

This really is a narrow-minded view. There are a million and one ways you can make yourself a challenge, if you are seeing facebook as the main one, then I pity you. I added her on facebook, as she was sat next to me in work while I was on my phone, she asked me to add her and found herself on my phone, she initiated it. You don't seem to understand, we work together especially in the first week 7 hrs a day, this isn't some HB I picked up in a bar, and see once or twice a week in the early doors, hence talking about much more personal things, I wouldn't expect you to understand my profession but we deal with self-harm/suicide on a very real daily basis, hence her bringing issues like this up is not unlikely, she talked about her ex after I was talking in a group of people about recent experience of having to stop a mentally ill person committing suicide.

C
You’ve been out a number of times already and haven’t made a move... such a DJ!

I did make this point clear earlier but I'll reiterate for you; We met got along very well first few days (that week we worked closely while she taught me the job - 7hrs a day). By the end of the first week I wondered whether I actually wanted her, by the end of the day, I didn't feel like I could handle any more of her, ugh! Hence while she was off work for three weeks I didn't want to make a move, get with her and then once back at work together, have the same problem. I waited, whilst keeping the attraction going and staying out of the friend zone (using push/pull, kino, neg-hits, being a challenge, making her earn compliments/attention). I did this until she returned to work. In actuality it turns out we will see each other max 2 hours per day, so now feel ok about taking it to the next step. See earlier point about your DJ comment.

With your 'D' comment - It is unclear to what you are referring to. If it was the kino, then of course the kino was gentle at work and slightly stronger outside of work, was used mainly to seperate from other houndogs, used in teasing, and to stay out of friend zone until I made my mind up about her.
If it referred to a work relationship, then that is pure nonsense, I'm not just trying to lay her, and many many people get together in work. Which also makes our kino as a no-no at work point look pretty foolish.

The 'E' comment - If you only wanted to go after girls without baggage then I guess you've not left yourself with many to go for. You might as well go to mars. Almost every girl has a fair bit of baggage. Her disclosure is linked heavily to the work we do. I don't reply to every text, it's part of the push/pull approach Im using as well as earning attention.

Last note, this whole game is more general than you make it in my eyes. It is more about change in attitude and restriction of self-analysing, rather than worry too much about the details, which it seems you are clinging onto. Just an observation

 

[Lord Sidious]

Hey, bro.

I can´t understand why some guys come her asking for opinions when they simply aren´t open to read it (wich seems to be your case). I agree mostly with kingsam. Sometimes guys aren´t kind saying things, but this is a MEN´s forum. It´s not with bad intentions, by the contrary.

I would move away from that kind of girl, for most of the reasons kingsam wrote. But, hey, it´s your call, bro.

 

[CCFCmid]

Hey, bro.

I can´t understand why some guys come her asking for opinions when they simply aren´t open to read it (wich seems to be your case). I agree mostly with kingsam. Sometimes guys aren´t kind saying things, but this is a MEN´s forum. It´s not with bad intentions, by the contrary.

I would move away from that kind of girl, for most of the reasons kingsam wrote. But, hey, it´s your call, bro.

Not particularly, I'm totally open to reading opinions. I take yours on board very appreciatively and would encourage you to add to it if you feel you can to help me out.

The response to kingsam was, I feel, appropriate, given the way he addressed me, and in particular the way he misread a lot of what I said, then I'm not going to give his opinion much credence. If he'd have been less disparaging and not given so many indications of misunderstanding my points, then I would. For instance he somehow took from my original post that i perceived myself to be some kind of DJ.

Please I do encourage anyones opinion on this matter, and take them on board.

 

[kingsam]

Or not claim to be an AFC for that matter

here you go...

one in particular is such an AFC paying for all meals, supplication etc. It's funny to think i used to be like that lol

if you did mean only about paying for meals, then it didnt read like that!

You see it as berating, I see it as BEING BLUNTLY HONEST, theres no way of nicely nicely suggesting what to do, that will be ignored, i wasnt calling you personally an AFC, its the internet, i was calling out your behaviour as AFC... trying to make you confront your "wrongs", thats how you grow/improve....so take the advice and dont take it personally...

There are a million and one ways you can NOT make yourself a challenge...facebook is a BIG one of them...you are interested in this girl, so FB is not your freind ...make her only see your limited profile or something.
You say your gonna take Lord Sideous' advice but not mine, yet he "mostly agrees" wiht me...!
i also know its a ****e name, but most forum names are!

 

[Lord Sidious]

(...) would encourage you to add to it if you feel you can to help me out.

I´ve already told you what I think. I would stay way from that type of gal. In fact I have no interest about easy gals. However, if you wish to go for her, you should make a move once and for all. More important than choosing where to go, is what to do. Go for kiss close or even further if possible. It seems not to be hard.

 

[CCFCmid]

Fair play, that last post sam was decent of you. That's all I'm saying, that I would take your advice, of which part of it sidious agrees with, but it was how ou said it. You say it wasn't berating and not to take it personally it was just brutally honest advice but there are many many examples in your first post where this clearly wasn't the case, that post was partly personal attack and oneupsmanship which I have no idea why you felt the need to do.

Just one example at the very end...

HAHA yeh good one!

I do only let people see my limited profile and don't put any personal likes/dislikes/photos/etc. In a way it works to show how many girls talk to me. If it came across that I thought I was a DJ, believe me that is not the case!

 

[f283000]

Kingsam is right but apparently you are another afc who thinks he knows it all yet adds the target on facebook the moment she asks him! Brother what's wrong with you?

Her talking about her ex: Anytime a girl does this is to test your reaction and to see just how much value you have. Do you think she would mention her mental baggage to Brad Pitt?? to the captain of the football team? to the ****y jerk? They know better than that because those guys have a lot of value. You are a nice guy though and that is attributed to the fact that she was comfortable telling you all kinds of details about her life in like the first hour which goes to my second point.

Stop giving her the impression you give a sh_t about her: You are saying how you hit it off so well because within the hour she was telling you all kinds of stuff, but does it mean she is attracted to you as a man because of it? NO! You could be on your way to being another one of her girlfriends for all we care. This is what happens when they see a nice guy who they feel comfortable with specially if they just met.They start opening up like they open up to their girlfriends. They are in friend mode.

You are probably going to come here and deny it. I know this because I been through your situation. I had plenty of girls "i hit it off with right away" just like your situation. I thought I was on my way because we talked so much and seemed so compatible but I ended up failing. That was until i started reading this forum and paying attention to what the guys that are good with women were doing. They did not spend hours talking to them by texts, they were not adding them on facebooks. They stayed distant, noncaring, mysterious, all the way till they bagged their prey and beyond.

You letting her talk about her ex: Let's go back to Brad Pitt again. You think she would have kept mentioning her ex if you were Brad Pitt? Of course not. Unfortunately this woman sees a face of a nice guy and you apparently have let her get away with her bad behavior. It's bad behavior for her to mention an ex to a man she is romantically involved with or might be romantically involved with. It is also your failure for not disciplining her.

You need to find out if this woman has chosen you to be another one of her girlfriends and you only find that out by making a move on her. You also need to discipline her for talking about her ex so she stops doing that for good. Change the subject, look away, look uninterested, make it known you are not interested in hearing her bs not by making a fuzz which might make you look jealous. Oh yeah what are you doing talking to her for hours with texts??

 

[CCFCmid]

No not denying it at all, I think your pretty much on the right lines f283000. That is my worry that I'm edging into that area and need to try and see if i am in that area or not. I have heard her say to a friend that told me... when talking she was about her about being single, that she coyley said she had an interest referring to me. But again as you say this tells me nothing.

But to be honest mate, I have been doing some of what you suggest, it's just i can't put it all down in one message, my posts are long enough already, but i have done the whole, not talk about exs or other guys, ignoring conversation about them when she starts, looking away disinterested. The latest point i made when she brought up the ex was, "look if you ever need someone professionally to talk to about this, that's fine (we're therapists), but I don't want you to share those memories with me, i wanna make new ones with you"
Was it perfect? certainly not, but my point is I am doing some stuff like that.

OK about the texts but they havn't been all the time, It's part of my pull cycle, which I probably should pull back on, but when in push mode she gets the shut off. I wouldn't say I've been a nice guy with her much. I do tease a hell of a lot, to the extent where I feel I am going too far, extremely rarely given her a compliment, always pulled her up when I can tell she's fishing for a compliment. What else do I need to do to avoid the nice guy mode?

 

[Igetit!]

F283000 hit the nail right on the head.


Dude,if this girl STARTED OUT opening up to you about not her life,but all the negative parts of it and all the problem and issues she has,then that means YOU screwed by not controlling the frame.


If you're sexually interested in this girl and want to date her,then YOU HAVE TO direct things in that direction.


If you don't,then the girl will direct things by default,and WHO KNOWS where she'll lead the interaction.

But to be honest mate, I have been doing some of what you suggest, it's just i can't put it all down in one message, my posts are long enough already, but i have done the whole, not talk about exs or other guys, ignoring conversation about them when she starts, looking away disinterested.

You see the part I put in bold here,the part about you not talking about exes and ignoring the convo when she starts talking about them?


THAT'S NOT ENOUGH.



It's NOT ENOUGH to not talk about a specific topic.


You have to intentionally,ON PURPOSE,direct the convo onto whatever it is you're wanting from her.



You want to date her,right? Then you need to talk about the TWO OF YOU DATING EACH OTHER.



So which one do you spend more time doing.....

AVOIDING talking about other guys,or ACTIVELY TALKING ABOUT the TWO OF YOU?

The latest point i made when she brought up the ex was, "look if you ever need someone professionally to talk to about this, that's fine (we're therapists), but I don't want you to share those memories with me, i wanna make new ones with you"
Was it perfect? certainly not, but my point is I am doing some stuff like that.

Well,i'll give you props for trying,but honestly,this seems a bit cheesy.


You said,"the lastest point i made when she brought up the ex was..."


You don't get it. The "latest point"? So you mean her bringing up her ex has been a recurring theme?


I hate to say this,but it looks like you've already failed.


If she's repeatedly bringing up the ex,then that means YOU'VE REPEATEDLY FAILED to direct and KEEP the conversation onto the two of you.



If you were creating attraction in her,she'd be too busy feeling the emotions you generated in her to keep mentioning her ex to you.




You got it wrong. You're focusing on how to respond to her "ex" comments,when there SHOULDN'T BE any comments about her ex in the first place,or at least not continually.



If she keeps talking about her ex,but NEVER SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT YOU and her,then YOU'RE NOT doing YOUR JOB.




There are only 3 WAYS a girl responds to a guy who shows sexual interest in her....


1)She shows SEXUAL interest back

2)She rejects you

3)The friendzone,(which is rejection as well).

And this happens THE INSTANT you let your interest be known. Therefore...

If you haven't gotten any one of these three from her yet,then YOU SCREWED UP.


And not only that,but the longer you go WITHOUT getting one of these three things from her,the GREATER the chance you'll get friendzoned by default.

I wouldn't say I've been a nice guy with her much. I do tease a hell of a lot, to the extent where I feel I am going too far, extremely rarely given her a compliment, always pulled her up when I can tell she's fishing for a compliment.

NONE OF THIS MATTERS.


The ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is that you show your interest to her in a way that she CLEARLY KNOWS WHAT YOU WANT,WHAT YOUR INTENTIONS ARE,and that you're totally confident when telling her this.


Other than that,nothing else matters.


So unless you've done this,all the busting and teasing and negging and joking around means NOTHING.

 

[CCFCmid]

thanks igetit! that's the kind of perspective I was looking for.

The reason I havn't gone for it yet, was because I was waiting til she got back to work to see if I could handle seeing her at work and out of work without getting bored of her. I've going out with her tomo for the first time since deciding this and will probably make a move.


Do you have an article on particularly how to steer the convo towards the two of us? I've seen a lot of stuff about storytelling/patterns, etc where you talk about king of third person feelings while your present but never seen anything where you directly talk about the two of you together in a non-teasing way. A lot of what I've seen says to keep her guessing "does he/doesn't he like me". Would this not counter this. I'm not questioning you just trying to clarify my understanding.

How else would you make it clear to her sexually what you want other than being bold and making a move, which i plan on tomo, you mention talking about the two of us but I've never seen anything to see how best to go about this? You can't talk about that for 3 or 4 hours constantly. You say I don't get it, but true, your the first person to say this to me, how would I know?

I will make a move tomo anyway but if this would help to steer the convo there beforehand, it sounds great.

 

[CCFCmid]

Can anyone offer me help? I just need some pointers on this. It seems counterintuitive from what I've read to make it clear that I sexually want her with anything other than kino/making a move, which is what I was planning on anyway.

Which is the best way to do this and possible ways of steering the conversation onto me and her?