izza
Master Don Juan
Most people on this forum teach that building attraction is the best way to succeed with women. And so, like good little Don Juans in training, most go out and focus entirely on building the girl's attraction to you.
This is a good start. Attraction is obviously the first step toward any sort of tryst with a girl. Most do not see any incompleteness in the idea of just building attraction or rapport.
But I think there is an ingredient missing. How often do you see on this board a guy saying, "I am so confused, she was into me, she was attracted to me, but I'm getting the run-around on the phone, she doesn't call me back, she's always busy, or she's got other plans." Or "we went on a date and we had great rapport. But now she seems uninterested." They get royally confused when a girl who is attracted to them is "playing games" or doing "sh!t tests" or having bouts of "last minute resistance."
Many of us have lived this. We have all heard this lament.
I have a suggestion: building attraction isn't enough. If you focus only on building attraction, in some cases it won't work. You're missing an ingredient.
I would argue that focusing on building cooperation may equally if not more useful than focusing on building attraction.
First, what do I mean by cooperation. Cooperation means that we both work toward the same goal, whatever that might be. Let's say your goal is to make out with a girl. Building cooperation means persuading her to work with you to go make out.
The difference between a girl not cooperating and a girl cooperating is obvious. Have you ever heard the old trick question: "open my fist?" I use this old trick a lot when I'm training in communication skills.
I hand them my fist as the person pulls and pulls, trying to force your hand open. They usually fail miserably.
I then hand my fist to someone else and instruct them to just ask. They say "open your fist" and I open it immediately.
We can try and try to get something done, but it is much easier if the person is working with you for the same thing.
In the domain of women, imagine you are both cooperating with the goal of having sex. All you have to do is ask her to come home with you, and she will. Or she will ask YOU to go home with her. Point is, once she is cooperating, your work is done. You do it - or she does!
This may seem obvious and pedantic. If so, please bear with me.
For instance, aren't attraction and cooperation the same thing? I think the answer is no. Attraction is a *prerequisite* for cooperation. But just because a girl is attracted does not mean she's cooperating yet. It just means she'd like to cooperate - in the right conditions.
The brutal truth is that many guys believe a girl being attracted to you means she's working with you. And they're wrong.
So a fair question is, why do we have this confusion?
One problem is, for most guys attraction is the same as cooperation. If I feel attracted to a girl, I will facilitate us kicking it. For us guys it's that simple.
I feel attracted, therefore I would have to be a fool *not* to cooperate.
We assume this is always so for women, right? But we're wrong. Why?
For women, attraction just means she wants to facilitate you two hooking up under the right conditions. So if a girl is attracted to you, getting her to cooperate (and therefore success) means setting up the "right conditions." Fortunately for everyone, the conditions are very simple. But they are different for men and women. Like I said, for men, attraction suffices.
For women here are some conditions that might help with cooperation.
1.) Many women hesitate to facilitate sex because they believe most guys want to chase, but do not want to be chased. Some guys are turned off by a girl who comes on too hard. Some guys don't feel comfortable unless they're "dominating". Besides, it is always safer and more empowering in some sense to be chased than to chase. So the girl doesn't want to turn off the guy and it's safer and rewarding to be chased anyway.
2.) Sexual violence still pervades our society. Women are afraid of being raped for giving "the wrong signs" to guys they barely know. Fear does not motivate women to be too helpful.
3.) Clingy guys take cooperation the wrong way. Some women (not necessarily all women and not necessarily all conventionally beautiful women) have had a bad experience with clingy guys who took some facilitation from girl as an invitation to, say, propose marriage. So women hesitate to cooperate for fear of clinginess.
4.) Paramount reason: there is a stigma against women who like sex and work to facilitate sex. Many in society degrade them as sluts. Women want to be desireable to men, and can't find respect as a "slut." So many women are cautious about cooperating to have sex.
One final reason why women sometimes feel attracted but do not cooperate, but this one applies to both men and women. Example: if you put out a vibe of playing games, covering stuff up, pretending you're always happy, being judgmental, hesitant, dishonest, hiding your sexuality, trying to gratify your ego through another's need for you, many women will treat you the same way. They will pull back.
For contrast, if you are straight-forward, direct, honest, accepting, patient, non-judgmental, attentive, humble, mature, complimentary toward behavior you like, and openly sexual, women will reciprocate more often.
But you easily can do even more. In order:
1.) Invite women to hit on you, call you, suggest ideas, kiss you. Invite women to make seduction a 50-50 effort. Surprisingly often, they are happy to cooperate once requested.
2.) Show women sexual openness and satisfaction. Talk about sex openly and vulnerably. They will trust more and more that you are not a rapist and will feel safer cooperating.
3.) Learn to be emotionally secure and satisfied. The best way to prevent giving off a non-clingy vibe is to demonstrate mature emotional expression. In other words, talk about your emotions in an interesting and mature way. Talking about emotions maturely and interestingly is the best way to demonstrate that you are not clingy.
4.) As for the slut part, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER make a comment that degrades women wanting or having sex. Compliment the courage of women who do what they want sexually. Sprinkle this respect for sexual women liberally into conversation, at pretty much every juncture. It would be hard to express respect for sexual women too often.
Whatever else is going on, it does take courage in our society to be an openly sexual woman. Such women take a lot of harassment, and need to be very strong. But they are open about who they really are. In that, at least, they are an example to all of us.
If you tell women you respect and desire a sexually experienced woman (because they are the most knowledgable about pleasure and safety after all
), women will be much more likely to cooperate with you.
So in short, while building attraction is definitely necessary, some guys make a huge mistake in forgetting to build cooperation. And the best way I can think of to build cooperation, and I would love some more suggestions, is to dispel ideas that block women from cooperating with you. Again, once women are attracted by your charming personality, it only takes a bit of effort to build cooperation. Then you can go have all the recreational sex you both could desire, without prelude. Your work is done.
Thoughts?
Izza
This is a good start. Attraction is obviously the first step toward any sort of tryst with a girl. Most do not see any incompleteness in the idea of just building attraction or rapport.
But I think there is an ingredient missing. How often do you see on this board a guy saying, "I am so confused, she was into me, she was attracted to me, but I'm getting the run-around on the phone, she doesn't call me back, she's always busy, or she's got other plans." Or "we went on a date and we had great rapport. But now she seems uninterested." They get royally confused when a girl who is attracted to them is "playing games" or doing "sh!t tests" or having bouts of "last minute resistance."
Many of us have lived this. We have all heard this lament.
I have a suggestion: building attraction isn't enough. If you focus only on building attraction, in some cases it won't work. You're missing an ingredient.
I would argue that focusing on building cooperation may equally if not more useful than focusing on building attraction.
First, what do I mean by cooperation. Cooperation means that we both work toward the same goal, whatever that might be. Let's say your goal is to make out with a girl. Building cooperation means persuading her to work with you to go make out.
The difference between a girl not cooperating and a girl cooperating is obvious. Have you ever heard the old trick question: "open my fist?" I use this old trick a lot when I'm training in communication skills.
I hand them my fist as the person pulls and pulls, trying to force your hand open. They usually fail miserably.
I then hand my fist to someone else and instruct them to just ask. They say "open your fist" and I open it immediately.
We can try and try to get something done, but it is much easier if the person is working with you for the same thing.
In the domain of women, imagine you are both cooperating with the goal of having sex. All you have to do is ask her to come home with you, and she will. Or she will ask YOU to go home with her. Point is, once she is cooperating, your work is done. You do it - or she does!
This may seem obvious and pedantic. If so, please bear with me.
For instance, aren't attraction and cooperation the same thing? I think the answer is no. Attraction is a *prerequisite* for cooperation. But just because a girl is attracted does not mean she's cooperating yet. It just means she'd like to cooperate - in the right conditions.
The brutal truth is that many guys believe a girl being attracted to you means she's working with you. And they're wrong.
So a fair question is, why do we have this confusion?
One problem is, for most guys attraction is the same as cooperation. If I feel attracted to a girl, I will facilitate us kicking it. For us guys it's that simple.
I feel attracted, therefore I would have to be a fool *not* to cooperate.
We assume this is always so for women, right? But we're wrong. Why?
For women, attraction just means she wants to facilitate you two hooking up under the right conditions. So if a girl is attracted to you, getting her to cooperate (and therefore success) means setting up the "right conditions." Fortunately for everyone, the conditions are very simple. But they are different for men and women. Like I said, for men, attraction suffices.
For women here are some conditions that might help with cooperation.
1.) Many women hesitate to facilitate sex because they believe most guys want to chase, but do not want to be chased. Some guys are turned off by a girl who comes on too hard. Some guys don't feel comfortable unless they're "dominating". Besides, it is always safer and more empowering in some sense to be chased than to chase. So the girl doesn't want to turn off the guy and it's safer and rewarding to be chased anyway.
2.) Sexual violence still pervades our society. Women are afraid of being raped for giving "the wrong signs" to guys they barely know. Fear does not motivate women to be too helpful.
3.) Clingy guys take cooperation the wrong way. Some women (not necessarily all women and not necessarily all conventionally beautiful women) have had a bad experience with clingy guys who took some facilitation from girl as an invitation to, say, propose marriage. So women hesitate to cooperate for fear of clinginess.
4.) Paramount reason: there is a stigma against women who like sex and work to facilitate sex. Many in society degrade them as sluts. Women want to be desireable to men, and can't find respect as a "slut." So many women are cautious about cooperating to have sex.
One final reason why women sometimes feel attracted but do not cooperate, but this one applies to both men and women. Example: if you put out a vibe of playing games, covering stuff up, pretending you're always happy, being judgmental, hesitant, dishonest, hiding your sexuality, trying to gratify your ego through another's need for you, many women will treat you the same way. They will pull back.
For contrast, if you are straight-forward, direct, honest, accepting, patient, non-judgmental, attentive, humble, mature, complimentary toward behavior you like, and openly sexual, women will reciprocate more often.
But you easily can do even more. In order:
1.) Invite women to hit on you, call you, suggest ideas, kiss you. Invite women to make seduction a 50-50 effort. Surprisingly often, they are happy to cooperate once requested.
2.) Show women sexual openness and satisfaction. Talk about sex openly and vulnerably. They will trust more and more that you are not a rapist and will feel safer cooperating.
3.) Learn to be emotionally secure and satisfied. The best way to prevent giving off a non-clingy vibe is to demonstrate mature emotional expression. In other words, talk about your emotions in an interesting and mature way. Talking about emotions maturely and interestingly is the best way to demonstrate that you are not clingy.
4.) As for the slut part, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER make a comment that degrades women wanting or having sex. Compliment the courage of women who do what they want sexually. Sprinkle this respect for sexual women liberally into conversation, at pretty much every juncture. It would be hard to express respect for sexual women too often.
Whatever else is going on, it does take courage in our society to be an openly sexual woman. Such women take a lot of harassment, and need to be very strong. But they are open about who they really are. In that, at least, they are an example to all of us.
If you tell women you respect and desire a sexually experienced woman (because they are the most knowledgable about pleasure and safety after all
), women will be much more likely to cooperate with you.So in short, while building attraction is definitely necessary, some guys make a huge mistake in forgetting to build cooperation. And the best way I can think of to build cooperation, and I would love some more suggestions, is to dispel ideas that block women from cooperating with you. Again, once women are attracted by your charming personality, it only takes a bit of effort to build cooperation. Then you can go have all the recreational sex you both could desire, without prelude. Your work is done.
Thoughts?
Izza
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