breaking up

[tedmed]

Hi, this is my first post on this board...I have read over some posts and I see that this is a pretty ecclectic environment. Sorry for the long post.

I'm a 25 year old male, and I am currently in a 2 year relationship with a wonderful girl. We have known eachother other for years but nothing ever happenened between us until we started grad school together. Our relationship started very slowly (she is fairly conservative and "old fashioned") and we've had our ups and downs but things have been ok the past year. I have a few problems.

I'm not sure if I ever want to get married. I'm not sure if I want kids. I fear getting old and I have many many interests that I am yet to pursue. Our interests are not the same as I am highly free spirited and a little artsy and she is pretty uptight and "classy". I enjoy the good life too but not the way she does. Life is hectic as a grad student so my time is literally spent studying (usually with her) or spending alone time with her. I have many friends that I don't really spend time with anymore and I don't enjoy my nights the way i used to. She knows about my marriage and children issues but I have a feeling that she thinks that I'll "come around" and change.

We are extremely close and we have been through alot together...i.e. school, her parents separation, and much more. Another side note: we have not had sex yet. We get physical and intimate but no sex (in any way either oral or ...) The problem I'm having now is that I'm thinking about breaking up with her but I don't know how I could hurt her. Also, I know that she finally wants to have sex but I'm afraid to because I know that if I do have sex with her and then break up with her she will be crushed even more. I have a "nice guy" complex and I hate to have anyone dislike me. I also can't stand to see her get hurt. I do care for her deeply but I don't think I'm in love with her. This isn't fair to her. I just don't know what to do or how to do it. I need to end it.

My heart is beating fast while I type this post.

Help

thank you

 

[mintxx]

I'm a 25 year old male, and I am currently in a 2 year relationship Why? Unless she's super hot in the sack, and gives as much as takes, you're wasting a lot of time. with a wonderful girl. Oh. She's wonderful. How so? We have known eachother other for years but nothing ever happenened between us until we started grad school together. We call this a relationship of convenience, lack of options and desperation, with no initial spark or genuine attraction. Our relationship started very slowly (she is fairly conservative and "old fashioned") and we've had our ups and downs Both of these things mean she has had a low interest level but no options, and takes it out on you, her servile, cringing cur. 'Ups and downs' means HER ups and downs, YOU apologising for them. but things have been ok the past year. I have a few problems. How are these two sentences even compatible?

I'm not sure if I ever want to get married. I'm not sure if I want kids. So you are misleading her and wasting her time because you're afraid to call it what it is, and pursue an honest and appropriate level of commitment with someone else. I fear getting old and I have many many interests that I am yet to pursue. If you're not pursuing them they're not your interests. Wake up. Our interests are not the same And you cope with that for two years? as I am highly free spirited and a little artsy OK. just because you spend a lot of time apologising does not make you free spirited. If you were free spirited, you would not be tied to a sexless 'relationship' for two years. and she is pretty uptight and "classy". She is frigid, a prude, and is smallminded. I enjoy the good life too but not the way she does. And materialistic. Marry her! Life is hectic as a grad student so my time is literally spent studying (usually with her) or spending alone time with her. Nothing personal, I don't know you, but that's fvcked. I'm doing postgrad law and economics, go out at least 2 times a week, see my girl once a week. You're using study as an excuse to become a social retard with an attachment complex. And doing medicine isn't an excuse. I have many friends that I don't really spend time with anymore They are no longer your friends. Wake up. and I don't enjoy my nights the way i used to. Did you ever enjoy your nights? If so, why? Important question. She knows about my marriage and children issues but I have a feeling that she thinks that I'll "come around" and change. She has changed you enough that you probably stopped developing as a person the day you met her. You are tied to her with mind-forged manacles as surely as the condemned man is bound to the chair.

We are extremely close and we have been through alot together...i.e. school, her parents separation, and much more. Many more of her problems, not yours. Another side note: we have not had sex yet. We get physical and intimate but no sex (in any way either oral or ...) This is not a side note unless you are the guy from Hitchcock's Psycho..You do not get 'physical or intimate' without any form of sex after two years, she merely tolerates you. Wake up. The problem I'm having now is that I'm thinking about breaking up with her but I don't know how I could hurt her. Don't flatter yourself. Chumps are a dime a dozen, especially at universities. She will find another one easily, please stop listening to her. Also, I know that she finally wants to have sex but I'm afraid to because I know that if I do have sex with her and then break up with her she will be crushed even more. If she wanted to have sex with you she would have. I have a "nice guy" complex and I hate to have anyone dislike me. Well, you can't see me, so it doesn't matter. I also can't stand to see her get hurt. How does she feel about seeing you get hurt? Or wasting your life on a road to a midlife crisis? I do care for her deeply but I don't think I'm in love with her. You assume she's in love with you. You have told her you love her. What makes you think she's not a liar same as you? This isn't fair to her. It's not fair to you. I just don't know what to do or how to do it. I need to end it. You just answered your own question. I can't even get my head around this.

 

[mintxx]

I call troll. If not, this is for your own good. Read widely on this board.

 

[tedmed]

I'm not a troll...just a douche bag. You make a lot of great points but you are off on a few. I appreciate you taking the time to actually read what i had to say. It's not easy looking someone you care for in the eye and telling them that it's over. I've done it once before and it was torture

 

[mintxx]

You have to be cruel to be kind. Call it shock therapy. Only thing that's gonna save you. My actual advice is this:
1. Put on the heat and non-verbally ask for sex straight out.
2. When she puts you in your place, just leave. Say nothing, just walk out.
3. Do not contact her.
4. When she contacts you, say 'this relationship is a farce and it is going nowhere'. And stop. Say nothing.
5. If she accuses you of doing something wrong, think about it logically.
[all you care about is sex?: oh is that why i haven't had it for two years then?..] You've probably spent a lot of care and time on her. What has she done to deserve this apart from having a puzz that you can't manhandle anway? Why are you afraid of being alone? If she were male would she be your friend?
6. Tell her you aren't getting what you desire from this relationsh!t and hence it is a one-way street, not a relationship. Say goodbye and hang up.
7. You will probably crack when she applies the tears and other garbage that has had you dancing to her tune since you met. Oh well, I tried. If not, repeat above from 1 to 6 until she puts out or stops calling. If she yields to a good fvkking, you can decide if it was worth it (no, 50 bucks isn't 2 years of celibacy).
8. You may feel like a rapist. Congratulations, you're an AFC. Don't offer any woman intimacy of any kind unless she demonstrates that she desires it.

 

[mintxx]

Lastly -
If it does actually matter to her that you (not just anybody, so she can pretend she's not single) see her or that you are happy with her, she will bang your brains out. But neither of those things are true. I guess you live in the states, so make sure she doesn't have the keys to your gun cabinet, your house or your car.

 

[joekerr31]

ok, here's what seems to be going on my from perspective.

it sounds like your girl has no clue what she is missing out on - so as a result obstaining from sex is no big deal for her. sure, she might get horny while making out with you, but if horny is all she's ever know (ie. she hasn't had mind blowing orgasms yet) then she has no clue that there's more enjoyment to be had beyond just touchy feely making out.

additionally, she may have a psychological aversion to sex and using being a 'virgin' as an excuse. sounds crazy, but some women are anxiety ridden over a man seeing them naked - much less screwing them (thoughts like 'what if my p*ssy smells that day? what if i fart? what if he doesn't enjoy it? what if he thinks im ugly once he sees me totally naked? etc.) - some women, provided the man lets them, will avoid sex for as long as p ossible!

not to mention any number of crazy ideas that could have been implanted in her head when she was younger.

but here is the important element to this - if she LOVES you she will do ANYTHING for you.

a woman who has decided that THIS is the man she wants will WANT to have sex. she will overcome any fears, anxiety and any mores that she thinks are associated with premarital sex - because she will want to bring the two of you as closely together as two human beings can get. without it she runs a greater risk that you will lose interest in her - and if YOU are the one for her she is NOT goign to do that.

so your current gf seems to:

1) have issues relating to sex. and regardless of what those issues are, they TRUMP you. which means her issues are #1 and you are #2.
2) you just don't bring out the wild side in her. she may love you like a 'brother' - and who wants to screw their brother? eventually you will leave, or she will leave you, and the next guy she gets with wont be mr. nice guy, but it will be some guy who bangs her brains out and she'll let him!

now as for addressing a girlfriend who doesnt want to have sex, i suggest you do so carefully. women are masters at deflecting.

if you say to her "this is crazy, i want to have sex!"
she will say "if you loved me you'd wait until i was ready."

women always pull out the 'lose lose' scenario. no matter what you respond to the 'if you loved me..' tactic, if its anything other than what SHE wants then you are f*cked (because according to that paradigm you are saying that you dont love her).

so flip the script on her

you: "this is crazy, i want to have sex!"
her "if you loved me blah blah blah"
you: "I've been waiting for two years for you to be ready. if you aren't ready by now i dont think you ever will be. this relationship is not evolving in a normal, healthy way. If you have issues with sex then you need to talk to someone about that, but im not going to sweep this issue under the carpet anymore and pretend like everything is ok."

now she's f*cked, becuase you've pulled the "If you were fuctional..." card. if she does anything other than address your concerns she becomes dysfunctional for the purposes of the conversation at hand.

the key with women is state your position clearly up front and then don't waver from it, no matter how much they try to get you back in to the 'lose lose' scenario.

in the above, odds are she would either get mad or start crying or something. knowing that she can't manipulate you with words (give you are sticking to your guns) she will then try to manipulate you emotionally.

when a woman starts crying i typically use the following line...

"wow, ok, this is way more serious than i thought. We need to get you some help. this is not normal to be crying at the thought of having sex with your boyfriend."

once i kick their emotional attack in the head (metaphorically that is), its amazing how they quickly STOP crying and then attempt to attack you verbally again (except by this time they are tpyically angry - angry that they arent getting their way!). hehe.

at which point i walk away. they tend to call a couple of days later profusely apologizing.

anyway, you need to call your girlfriend out on the carpet on this issue. unless that is you are ready to leave her.

if you really want out then dont take her virginity on the way out the door under the guise that the relationship is fine. tell her that this isn't working for you anymore and that you need to both go your own ways for the time being.

oh and for the 1 millionth time being a NICE GUY is fine (hell, women let me do just about ANYTHING to them in bed BECAUSE im a nice guy). but theres a HUGE difference between being a nice guy and being a doormat and being nice becuase you are too afraid to stand up for yourself. all these guys who think they are a NICE GUY really aren't - becuase you can't call yourself nice unless you have the ability to be mean but CHOOSE to be nice. so many guys are nice be default - they are too afraid to stand up for themselves (and their women know it!). women see right through the NICE GUY routine and know when they are dealing with a WIMP who plays the NICE GUY card because it makes his weakness look like a strength and when they are dealing with a MAN who chooses to be NICE.

good luck

 

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

Tedmed -You are not responsible for her feelings. Your emotional attachment to her isn't healthy, nor is it fair to you or her. You've offered up two years of your life to someone that you know wants more then you are willing to give and you've led her on by letting her think you will "come around". She too, should know better then to try to change you or make you something you are not.

If you think the attachment to her is not good NOW, letting her offer you her virginity would nearly shackle you into chains! I have to think she is already sensing your restlessness and that is why she is considering sex.

However, you are responsible for you own well being and personal growth, if you have goals to meet and you do not feel you want her part of them then you need to pursue them without her.

You’re 25 TM, per many statistics you're a third way into your life. There are no "do-overs" and to continue in this relationship will only erode you on the inside. You already have these thoughts festering and stirring within, it increases your heart rate and what you don't see is a bad end is coming. You'll begin to look for things and knit pick at her until you try to get her to end it OR you get so pent up you blow over something stupid.

So, you end it now, with grace and some pain and move on or you keep it going until you let your control slip and you come off looking like an ass to her and to yourself. Ending it probably won't be pretty, it will hurt you and her a bit, but you can prevent damage by "manning up" and being honest.

Or so goes my .02.....

Hang in here and read, there's lots of experience here.

 

[Mr.Positive]

The way I see, they have been dating for 2 years. Hopefully, the OP has dated other girls during this time. If he wants to commit to her, he should follow Joekerr's awesome advice. If he decides he doesn't, he should date other people.

I've set firm rules for myself, for my happiness, to cut through all the BS. I'm not dating someone unless there has been some physical contact (not "friends"). I will not commit emotionally, in a relationship, to any woman that I'm not having sex with. Sex is her way of showing me, not by words, that she values me and sees me as something special. She is showing me that she will not poof...disappear on me. :wave:

 

[Wyldfire]

Sounds like she is not wanting to have sex until marriage...and if he isn't going to marry her then he needs to respect that. Don't push her to go against her values and what is important to her just because some guys on here tell you that you should. It sounds like she has been a good girlfriend to you and has been supportive and that she is a very high quality woman.

The sad thing about this is that it's unlikely that you are going to find a woman who is as high quality as she sounds who you also are attracted to, is attracted to you and also actually get along well with and can weather tough times with. I can foresee you really regretting breaking up with her if that's what you do. At the same time...if you are absolutely certain that you don't want marriage or a family then you would be very wrong to stay with her if those are things she really wants.

Take some time and really think about this...and be very careful about whose advice you follow...most of the advice you'll get here is crap.

 

[tedmed]

wow...this is killing me. You all have great points of view, although some of you have focused on the sex more than any other problem.

The fact is, I never said she is a virgin, she had a sexual relationship before us but for her, she doesn't have sex unless she see's that the relationship is strong. i have told her that sex is important to me. She says it's important to her too. I have actually avoided the sex lately because I'm freaking out thinking that if I finally have sex with her and then break up with her I will literally crush her (i apparently think too highly of myself).

I talked to her last night and told her about the marriage and kids issues again. I told her that I dont want to have kids anytime soon, if ever. I just don't see myself as a typical suburban dad. She said that she didnt want kids soon either but she eventually did want kids (in about 7 years).

Then i told her about my other issues with her...how I dont spend time with the boys, how I dont pursue my interests and etc and she said that she hates to see me unhappy and that i should do whatever makes me happy. She wants to be supportive. This is the kinda stuff that kills me.

 

[Wyldfire]

So she's not a virgin but just isn't having sex in this relationship? I assumed that she was waiting until marriage because it's not that often that someone posts who has been with someone this long without having sex unless the woman is a virgin waiting until marriage.

It's good to wait awhile to have sex so the relationship is based on more than just that...but two years is a big excessive to say the least. Has she ever said why she doesn't feel the relationship is strong? What is the reasoning behind waiting this long to have sex? Do you think you would be less likely to feel the way you do right now IF sex were a part of the relationship? I think if you want truly helpful and productive input and advice you need to provide more information.

 

[tedmed]

she didnt feel the relationship was strong from the beginning. I have a problem...i tell the truth. So when her and I started dating, and since I know her well enough to know that she doesn't just date to screw around, I told her that I wasn't 100% about us and that i wasn't sure if i wanted to be in a serious relationship. I was just being honest. Things were good between us and i really liked her and since we were so caught up with eachothers lives our relationship grew without us even realizing it. But she was always hesitant because of what i had said. Also, I'm a bit of a flirt with other girls and this has caused her to pull away a few times. She thinks that I just want to be single and that my true self comes out when i have a few drinks and start flirting. I've never cheated...but I have to admit that I do desire the single life every now and again.

 

[tedmed]

I think what wyldfire said is on the spot. I foresee myself regretting breaking up with her. I've never met any girl that can actually "logically" work out a relationship problem. I've never met a girl with a body as tight as hers and an IQ higher than mine. She has a incredible body and brains to go with it. She's not the kind to stray. She loves to "take care" me. My friends like her. My parents like her. All these positives are difficult to let go of. But i think to the future and I don't see myself 40 and married with kids and I still find myself desiring other women. She brings alot into my life but I'm still not satisfied.

 

[tedmed]

after all this dialogue i've come to a conclusion. It's not her. I adore her. She's the kind of girl that would give anything as long as she feels the connection with me.

My real problem....I'm still not over other getting play. I like to flirt. I like the idea of sexing a bunch of other women.

Do I throw this relationship away for that?

 

[tedmed]

i swear if I could muster up the nerve to cheat life would be so much easier

 

[STR8UP]

I think what wyldfire said is on the spot. I foresee myself regretting breaking up with her.

Yea, for a minute.

Your gut is telling you to get out, don't listen to anything or anyone but your gut, it will never steer you wrong.

She has a incredible body

That is off limits to you for the past two years you have been together. WOW

Don't let anyone tell you different. SEX IS WHAT PEOPLE DO WHEN THEY ARE IN RELATIONSHIPS! If you aren't having sex, it means there is a problem. Either:

A) She's fukked in the head
-or-
B) She's fukking someone else

Either way I personally wouldn't be staying around more than a month or so to find out which one it is. TWO YEARS??? You're crazy dude.

 

[STR8UP]

My real problem....I'm still not over other getting play. I like to flirt. I like the idea of sexing a bunch of other women.

Do I throw this relationship away for that?

Yes. If you don't, you will DEFINITELTY know the meaning of the word regret. And you will be reminded of it every day for the rest of your life.

 

[Wyldfire]

You probably wouldn't feel like you were missing out on things if the two of you were having sex. It's cool you have enough self control to live without it...but sex is a very important part of a relationship. If she were a virgin and waiting until marriage then it's cool to hold off...but in your case? There's a good chance that you won't feel the way you do now if the two of you were having sex.

 

[Cesare Cardinali]

My advice is that a relationship should have a very strong element of sexual attraction and activity. It is the difference between "friends" and "being in a relationship". You should want to ravish her and she should have been desiring for you to ravish her a long time ago. Why has she given it up for another guy but not you? That's a big read flag to me, and I would have called her on it a few weeks into the relationship. Two years is too long. I think you either have sex and give the relationship a shot with the sexual element for say another six months, or you boot her now. But status quo is certainly not an option if I were you.