Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Real Life Applications?

[lookyoung]

MMA itself is rapidly becoming a martial art. Or rather, the martial art.

In a few years, no one will be going to a BJJ dojo and a Muay Thai gym. The traditional divisions will vanish. You'll just go to a MMA gym with a few instructors.

People who want to learn basketball don't go to a shooting school, then get a 2nd degree belt in Korean dribbling, then an orange belt in Indonesian-style passing. They just work on the sport, with occasional input from an experienced coach.

MMA is the best martial art. It combines all styles. But in order to run a good mma school, you would need a bjj blackbelt. A division 1 college wrestler or former. Plus a muythai, and a boxing coach. It will be tough to get people that are experts in all these 4 fields.

I am also in the opinion is that you need a base. Something that your very good at, and than you pick everything else up.

. Many people won't do mma because it is too rough on them. Do you think the suburban 47 year old CEO is going to do MMA. Probably not he is more likely to do karate. There is a market for it... but it may be more than a few years.

 

[dirtyvibe]

Ken Shamrock did not beat the fvck out of gracie in there second fight. He just laid in his guard all day, and buried his face in his chest. He did catch him with a punch after they stood them up, but it was a glancing blow. If they had the 4 ounce UFC gloves the punch would have done nothing to him. The jiu-jitsu was not as advanced as it is today. If shamrock would have done that with some one like BJ penn he would have been sweeped and mounted within 30 seconds.

Vitor belfort uses boxing because he is a better boxer than he is at BJJ.:trouble:

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

 

[dirtyvibe]

Jayer follow the sport. Every fighter that fights in the UFC is a purple belt in bjj minimum. Huerta may even be a blackbelt himself I am not sure. All these fighters have at least a few years training in bjj.

If I wanted to fight mma and could choose to be a bjj worldchamp, Gold medalist wrestler, or world champ boxing, I would be an olympic gold medalist wrestler. Reason being is you teach a gold medalist 2 years of bjj he will be hard to submit by any bjj guy. Wrestlers have a great base and they are hard as hell to sweep.

Wrestling has the advantage because they train all out for 5 minutes nonstop. In bjj matches you don't go all out. You can relax. So in MMA the advantage is to the wrestler who knows a little bit of bjj.

But if you do style vs. style with no time limit. A pure wrestler vs. Pure BJJ than the bjj artist comes out on top. The wrestler will get submitted.

Huerta doesn't have a belt in BJJ. If he can beat the piss out of a 2nd degree BJJ b-belt of the same size, imagine what a 250 lb man can do.

 

[dirtyvibe]

MMA is the best martial art. It combines all styles. But in order to run a good mma school, you would need a bjj blackbelt. A division 1 college wrestler or former. Plus a muythai, and a boxing coach. It will be tough to get people that are experts in all these 4 fields.

I am also in the opinion is that you need a base. Something that your very good at, and than you pick everything else up.

. Many people won't do mma because it is too rough on them. Do you think the suburban 47 year old CEO is going to do MMA. Probably not he is more likely to do karate. There is a market for it... but it may be more than a few years.

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

No need to pull a triangle on the concrete. Having a solid ground game basis helps you to prevent from being in more dangerous position on the ground.

Knowing how to escape bad positions is crucial, and positioning is a major theme in BJJ. Being able to get to say knee on stomach position, side mount, or mount, and control the opponent from that position is extremely important.

If you've ever been tied up by someone who has you in a close side mount or a knee on stomach position, you'll know how vulnerable you feel..and how few things you can even do.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

Unless the 250 lber was in stuck in a position that made his mere size useless...and maybe even detrimental. It's true that the smaller guy could get slammed, picked up, etc.

But once the game goes to the ground, there are positions where even pure size and strength cannot provide the proper means of escape. From those positions, chokes and joint locks will subdue a big man as well as a small man.

I'm 180 but when I was 150 I wrestled a guy who was 220. I submitted him with both a key lock and a rear naked choke. With the key lock, I had a close side mount on him. I had tied up his left arm and rendered it useless. His body was just a big blob of mass. His legs were useless. With his arm useless I easily attacked his left arm with a punishing kimura.

I was in mount and I let him try to bridge and escape. I elevated up and let him roll onto his side where I quickly snaked my legs into a grapevine position rendering his lower body weak. He was actually on top of me. I secured a solid rear naked choke and punished him.

You need to remember that even smaller guys can take a lot of pain and can be tremendously strong.

 

[lookyoung]

Shamrock did beat the piss out of Royce.

Headbutts destroy the clinch REALLY fast.

Real grappling is also much different than bjj. If you're 170 lb, you can be the best BJJer in the world, but a moderately trained 250 lber will rape you. And by moderately trained I mean 1 week of BJJ, a little wrestling, or even just good instincts. You'll get pounded. And you'll get spiked on your head. Size is much more important in real life.

No, he did not beat the piss out of gracie. It was a stalemate. That was probably the most boring fight in UFC history. As far as 250 pounders go talk to kimo and dan severn about that, I believe they were both submitted by a guy that weighed 170 pounds.

If both guys have no training than a 250 pound man will beat a 170 pound man 80% of the time. But if the little guy has trained for years and the big guy hasn't the little guy will win 90% of the time.

If bjj is not grappling than what the hell is?

 

[lookyoung]

Huerta doesn't have a belt in BJJ. If he can beat the piss out of a 2nd degree BJJ b-belt of the same size, imagine what a 250 lb man can do.

Huerta is one of the top 155 pounders in the UFC. He is 5-0 in the UFC. He probably has at least a purple belt in BJJ. He is a well rounded fighter. He has trained in BJJ. If Huerta had no training in BJJ he loses that fight without a doubt.

Roger Huerta would kill 95% of the 250 pounders walking around in the street.

I can tell you probably never took a martial art, and probably never been in a streetfight. If you were too walk into a bjj school and roll with a couple of guys who are not even blackbelts. Roll with bluebelts and you will have much more respect for bjj.

 

[lookyoung]

MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot).

With harder surfaces, striking becomes more important because leverage is easier to generate. Stomps, head butts, knees to the head, and soccer kicks make BJJ a lot less effective. Hard surfaces like concrete make pulling triangles, guard, and armbars equivalent to suicide. Remember when Jackson KOd Arona with a slam in the triangle? Imagine that on concrete. That would have literally killed Arona. Not to mention that size becomes that much more important since if you outweigh a guy by 20 lbs, you can slam him easily even if you have no training. That also makes Judo that much more important.

Your wrong about everything you just said. It is very easy to sweep a guy who doesn't know bjj, so you don't have to pull a triangle. It is impossible for someone to pickup someone from a triangle choke if its applied properly.

The guys that get slammed while applying a triangle have what I call a dirty triangle. If Your body is at the right angle you will never get slammed. A guy that outweighs a bjj practitioner by 20 pounds will not slam him if he does not have training.

You need to actually walk into a bjj school and not talk out of your azz. You obviously know nothing about bjj or mma.

 

[killbill]

I know some moves and I would use them if the fight I was ever in went to the ground. I dont want the fight to go to the ground but if it does its good to be ready. I think this style could be good to use though.

 

[The Inside Man]

"Knowing moves" isn't enough. You have to practice, often, for years.

Although this kind of situation is rare as far as the 250lber vs guy that knows jiu jitsu, On the Rickson Gracie video CHOKE, a documentary of a vale tudo tournament in 1996 or so, a very small 140lb shooto fighter taps out several monster martial artists and ends up facing Hickson in the finals. At one point he has an armbar in on a huge black guy and he is hanging vertically upside down in the air with the guys arm, and the guy taps! Amazing performance, great overall DVD.

 

[The Inside Man]

"MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot)."

Thats really cool to hear someone mention lethwei...I trained the American form, called Bando, under one of Dr. Moaung(sp) Gyi's 1st class of black belts for over a year and it was brutal. Dr. Gyi supposedly beat Bruce Lee in a match, I don't know if that is true or not. Chuck Norris used to referee Bando matches in the 1970s in Washington DC where it was introduced in the U.S. Bando fighters would be pitted against top contenders of other styles or their teammates.

The style has so much culture even since it came to America, but very few people know about it. There are a few places that still train authentic bando, but most of what you find these days is like alot of the other watered down karate cardio kick gyms. If you find an authentic old timer though watch out! Pain is a part of the game.


Plenty of bareknuckle sparring as well as 6 hour practices, drills, fighting people that outweigh you by alot...But I have heard that Dr. Gyi's practices in the 70s and 80s were even worse. We also trained to fight through being hit in the groin. And I mean HIT-front thrust kick from someone 60 pounds heavier than me. It dropped me but I was able to fight through it when it was someone my size. Adrenaline masks alot of the pain in that kind of sparring until after the practice.

Overall it was insane and various members of my team have applied it on the street succesfully, but they also have grappling backgrounds to back it up. I quit training hard style burmese kb when my best friend broke my rib in a sparring match with a hammer punch to the sternum.

www.usabando.com
www.americanbandoassociation.com

 

[Reyaj]

"MMA is a sport. There are more effective martial arts forms.

Lethwei and old-style muay thai for example are more effective stand-up options in real fights because they incorporate headbutts and aspects of bear-knuckle (which changes things a lot)."

Thats really cool to hear someone mention lethwei...I trained the American form, called Bando, under one of Dr. Moaung(sp) Gyi's 1st class of black belts for over a year and it was brutal. Dr. Gyi supposedly beat Bruce Lee in a match, I don't know if that is true or not. Chuck Norris used to referee Bando matches in the 1970s in Washington DC where it was introduced in the U.S. Bando fighters would be pitted against top contenders of other styles or their teammates.

The style has so much culture even since it came to America, but very few people know about it. There are a few places that still train authentic bando, but most of what you find these days is like alot of the other watered down karate cardio kick gyms. If you find an authentic old timer though watch out! Pain is a part of the game.


Plenty of bareknuckle sparring as well as 6 hour practices, drills, fighting people that outweigh you by alot...But I have heard that Dr. Gyi's practices in the 70s and 80s were even worse. We also trained to fight through being hit in the groin. And I mean HIT-front thrust kick from someone 60 pounds heavier than me. It dropped me but I was able to fight through it when it was someone my size. Adrenaline masks alot of the pain in that kind of sparring until after the practice.

Overall it was insane and various members of my team have applied it on the street succesfully, but they also have grappling backgrounds to back it up. I quit training hard style burmese kb when my best friend broke my rib in a sparring match with a hammer punch to the sternum.

www.usabando.com
www.americanbandoassociation.com

You think you can beat a Gracie?

 

[The Inside Man]

Knowledge

I have trained in jiu jitsu casually for a few years after hs wrestling. So no, to your ridiculous question.

Matt Hughes has beaten Royce Gracie. Sakuraba has beaten several gracies. Wanderlei brutally finished Sakuraba several times. Mirko knocked out Wanderlei. Gonzaga knocked out Mirko. Couture smashed Gonzaga, and it goes round and round. Martial arts are deeper than who can beat up who. Here is word for word the Bando Motto:
This is not my work at all, this was given to me by my instructor.

--BANDO MOTTO: No one nation has a monopoly of the sunlight. No one religion, race, culture or system has a monopoly of the truth. The Bando Discipline alone does not hold the truth of the martial arts. It is but one of the many disciplines in search of the truth.--

cont'd
The translation of Bando (Ban-Do) means "The way of discipline". To make progress toward perfection of the martial (fighting) arts of Bando, one must become aware of and meet the demands of self discipline. Along the paths of self discipline, one will learn about the elements of Self: the Body, the Mind, and the Spirit(Soul). The ultimate goal is to develop perfect harmony of these elements. The first step towards discipline and self defense is controlling one's inner emotions, one's behavior etc. The key is to learn, train, develop, and refine FULLY and EQUALLY the Body, Mind, and Spirit (Soul). As one is able to adapt to these principles, the progress in the martial arts as well as life in general will be astounding. There are many phases in depth to the philosophy of Bando, and they go hand in hand with the development of the many fighting forms in it. The basics of the learning and teaching in Bando is upon the realization that there is no "One True Way".

You're welcome.

 

[Reyaj]

I have trained in jiu jitsu casually for a few years after hs wrestling. So no, to your ridiculous question.

Matt Hughes has beaten Royce Gracie. Sakuraba has beaten several gracies. Wanderlei brutally finished Sakuraba several times. Mirko knocked out Wanderlei. Gonzaga knocked out Mirko. Couture smashed Gonzaga, and it goes round and round. Martial arts are deeper than who can beat up who. Here is word for word the Bando Motto:
This is not my work at all, this was given to me by my instructor.

--BANDO MOTTO: No one nation has a monopoly of the sunlight. No one religion, race, culture or system has a monopoly of the truth. The Bando Discipline alone does not hold the truth of the martial arts. It is but one of the many disciplines in search of the truth.--

cont'd
The translation of Bando (Ban-Do) means "The way of discipline". To make progress toward perfection of the martial (fighting) arts of Bando, one must become aware of and meet the demands of self discipline. Along the paths of self discipline, one will learn about the elements of Self: the Body, the Mind, and the Spirit(Soul). The ultimate goal is to develop perfect harmony of these elements. The first step towards discipline and self defense is controlling one's inner emotions, one's behavior etc. The key is to learn, train, develop, and refine FULLY and EQUALLY the Body, Mind, and Spirit (Soul). As one is able to adapt to these principles, the progress in the martial arts as well as life in general will be astounding. There are many phases in depth to the philosophy of Bando, and they go hand in hand with the development of the many fighting forms in it. The basics of the learning and teaching in Bando is upon the realization that there is no "One True Way".

You're welcome.

I only asked because you were all about this Bando art which is supposed to be true fighting. You'd figure if you practice it you can beat those other so called masters of their Arts like a Gracie.....

interesting concept though...

 

[bigjohnson]

I only asked because you were all about this Bando art which is supposed to be true fighting. You'd figure if you practice it you can beat those other so called masters of their Arts like a Gracie.....

interesting concept though...

Yeah, sure, because there's bound to be a one true surefire way to win at street fighting. Right.

 

[The Inside Man]

yeah grab the leg with the triangle in so they can't lift you up! hold on for dear life!

 

[Reyaj]

can someone send links of this?

 

[Reyaj]

bump

 

[The Inside Man]

JUDO chop!