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Boys Adrift; the future of Men

Quiksilver

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Something scary is happening to boys today. From kindergarten to college, they are less resilient and less ambitious than they were a mere twenty years ago. As for young men, it turns out the film Failure to Launch is not far from the truth. Fully one-third of men ages 22-34 are still living at home with their parents--about a 100 percent increase in the past twenty years. Boys nationwide are increasingly dropping out of school; fewer are going to college; and for the first time in American history, women are outnumbering men at undergraduate institutions three to two.

Parents, teachers, and mental health professionals are worried about boys. But until now, no one has come up with good reasons for their decline--and, more important, with workable solutions to reverse this troubling trend. Now, family physician and research psychologist Dr. Leonard Sax delves into the scientific literature and draws on his vast clinical experience to propose an entirely original view of why boys and young men are failing in school and at home. He argues that a combination of social, cultural, and biological factors is creating an environment that is literally toxic to boys, ranging from environmental estrogens to the over-prescription of ADHD drugs. And he presents practical solutions--from new ways of controlling boys' use of video games, to innovative (and workable) education reforms.
This is a little summary of the book I've started reading . I believe it's an important topic that all men should be aware of, and what really made it hit home was how scientific it is, backed up by research, statistics, numerous studies, etc. The author is a medical doctor, so this book is presented in a very logical way free of conjecture and theorizing.

What really made it hit home for me was how classic a case I am of what he's describing. In grade one I was prescribed with ritalin because 'apparently' I had ADD and ADHD(took it every day from grades one through six). But for one or two good years here and there, I've underperformed my entire way through school, and seem to lack an internal drive and ambition to succeed in society. What's more, this book isn't written in truisms that most gimmick "you have a problem" books are written in. It's strictly observing current and past trends, and presenting a case.

To sum the book up in one sentence from what I've read, it's essentially about: The progression of boys becoming feminine and girls becoming masculine.

Who's interested in picking this book up? In a few weeks time we can start a book review on here.

The book is:

Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax, it'll only set you back $20.

cheers
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Obsidian

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will see about getting it off amazon when I have some more time


Parents, teachers, and mental health professionals are worried about boys. But until now, no one has come up with good reasons for their decline
Pook says that women are doing better educationally because
1) education has become feminized (and in many ways, useless -- See below)
2) most non-college teachers are female, and the teacher's gender affects which students will learn the best


Regarding reason #1, you should note that although women are supposedly doing so much better in college, they are still LESS PRODUCTIVE overall than their male counterparts. Women still make less money than men. A lot of these straight-A girls in school are majoring in useless degrees like women's studies and art (or degrees in other slightly more useful, but equally low-paying fields)
 

wayword

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I spoke to a 40ish Indian woman recently about this...

She went on and on about what a travesty it is about how poorly boys are treated in this country. Totally neglected and marginalized in favor of girls...etc., etc.

And she was the one who brought it up! And even has a daughter!

So, you know its BAD when even women are highly concerned about this! :nervous:


REALITY IS: We need to rebel against EVERYTHING society is trying to program us for right now. Because it is all designed to subtly divide & subordinate us for the coming NW0.
 

Quiksilver

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I don't even believe women are the problem, if anything they are just as much the victim biologically, yet society has been overhauled in the last 30-40 years to cater to creatures of their nature(submissive, dominated by the hormone estrogen, etc).

If you take what he is saying as truth--albeit with grain of salt as well--about the (phytoestrogens in plastic, testosterone blocking substances, estrogen hormones in beef even, birth control pills not being completely broken down by water treatment facilities) all around us that we are consuming, then its neither men nor women who are the problem, but society, technology, and industry as a whole.

While women are 'supposedly' benefiting from the estrogens all around us, maturing physically at a younger age now more than ever, they respond to estrogens in the same way that we respond to testosterone. They become more assertive, aggressive, driven, ambitious, etc. While men on the other hand, respond to estrogen in a way that essentially causes us to act/be more feminine, on a psychological and physiological level.

There was a long study done on the fish in the Columbia river(where many estrogen-containing waste is dumped), and it documents the change of the male fish. The females lay eggs and the males fertilize them. Recently, in the past 15-25 years, the male fish have started laying eggs too. You always expect there to be genetic mutations, its part of evolution, but when you have a substantial portion of the population of MALE fish LAYING EGGS, it is a cause for concern.

Pair that side by side with the evidence that MALE HUMANS have recorded a 50% drop in sperm count over the past 30-50 years, its pretty clear that humans are just as susceptible to these hormone changes as fish are.

You might be able to rationalize the drop of testosterone over the same 30-50 year period, because it can also coincide with a drop of estrogen levels, which leaves the 'victim' no better or worse off than before... But a drop in sperm count.. that is very significant because that only happens when estrogen levels are RISING, and Test. levels are FALLING.

Now this is only a small part of the focus of the book, from what I'm reading, it deals more with the affects of this.

There's a good bit on how society has been evolving to disengage boys and men, by labelling things in school like play-fighting, snowball throwing(you can get punished in some school boards where I live for even picking up snow), and many other physical activities that are FAR more engaging to the male brain than sitting watching a documentary on the history of the Austro-Hungarian Empire(no offense to the history buffs here ;)). Of course these changes are not to attack the behavior of boys intentionally, they're just to protect the school institutions from legal liability.

Even with taking this information with a grain of salt, it's looking more and more like Western society is not sustainable and in several generations, the UNNATURAL relationship between masculinized females and feminine males will be dire(a little too profound?:)).

There was also a survey done in universities, asking students whether they will get married or not one day... A full 2/3rds of the guys said that they probably would like to get married one day and raise a family... On the other hand, half(1 in 2) of the girls said they will NOT be getting married in their life.

How do you think this represents the value young men and women nowadays put on marriage/children?

The author believes that on a statistic level, in one hundred years or so, islamic cultures and others who place a higher value on marriage/family, will be the dominant cultures in the West.

Even if western(america, canada, uk) cultures still have children at the same rate, as now, the only difference being LESS marriages... Where do you think that will leave young men and women in that scenario?

Boys and girls being raised by SINGLE PARENT HOMES, being taught by an educational system that has a very negative affect on the value of masculinity in men and femininity in women(treating men and women the same--do not confuse with equality, and penalizing masculine behavior as WRONG/BAD/EVIL), will leave many lost and confused generations of young people, that we can already see today, and many of us can personally relate to and have spoken about.

This post turned out long, but I think this is one of the most important topics to discuss and understand... It's not some hocus-pocus "World will end in 2012" topics, where there are no trends, evidence, or reasons to believe that could happen. Rather its something that has already started to happen, CAN and HAS been measured and documented. It definitely won't be something that could destroy all of humanity, but it IS something that I do believe can destroy western/industrial society.

At the risk of sounding a bit too profound again, I really don't see what can be done about this, because it's happening on a physiological level, and many corporations are benefiting from docile men and women becoming more of a power in the workforce...

That's all I can really spit out right now, I haven't read much of the book yet, but I do find it fascinating.

cheers
 

Bible_Belt

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Quiksilver

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The book does have a chapter that goes into that part of the issue, but it's more of a Why and How of it. This book is relatively scientific.

The title of that article suggests that the guy is consciously choosing to not get married/have a deep relationship. It doesn't suggest that the guy may not know How to have a deep relationship anymore, nor is he biologically driven to get married anymore.

Before people start saying that marriage is NOT biological, but instead a tool of society, consider that most mammals mate for life still, and marriage is really just a formalization of that primal instinct, designed to protect the children.
 

meitenesrigas

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Speaking from experience. None of you would be following those feminine DJ Gurus if you used your navy blue passports. And I am not talking about leaving for England or Spain. Find a place where you can settle down at 45 or 50 with a beautiful blue-eyed 19 year old. If you doubt that it could work you are already too Americanized to ever make it outside of the US.

Living at home with your folks is great. Most foreign guys do this. Nothing wrong with it. A man and his mother should have a very strong bond. Don't listen to Anglophile BS about being a Momma's boy. I love my mother more than anyone. Most Americans would find it a very odd relationship, but f--- them! Most American females make terrible mothers. Disgusting hors!

How can you live part of the year outside of America? Simple. Avoid all personal debt, live with your folks, drive a sh---- car, avoid all females in America, find a place that you have a passion for, and divorce yourself from all of your old friends (they will hate you and find you strange). It isn't easy, but it can be done. I think that less than 5% of the USA men are made for such a lifestyle. As far as places to stay. At first try a decent hotel for 10 -14 days at a time. From there get a short term rental apartment. Never get stuck with HAVING to be at one place. Flexibility equals Freedom!
 
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To sum the book up in one sentence from what I've read, it's essentially about: The progression of boys becoming feminine and girls becoming masculine.

I've been saying this for four years - we are being mind controlled at every level - to make the male weak!!!

Wayword said it - It is a new world order where men will be too drugged up and entertained and sexed out to fight back! Men will just accept their servitude!!!

This is The Matrix boys!
 

wayword

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It's pretty much a "perfect storm" against men today - with a synergystic effect of everything from xenoestrogens to feminism...
Quiksilver said:
There was also a survey done in universities, asking students whether they will get married or not one day... A full 2/3rds of the guys said that they probably would like to get married one day and raise a family... On the other hand, half(1 in 2) of the girls said they will NOT be getting married in their life.
Indeed, even when marriage has become such a raw deal for men - they are still begging women to marry them...on bended knee with a big fat rock! Talk about the ultimate act of AFCism!

And yet are still getting REJECTED! :crackup:

WOW, just look who has all the sexual power & leverage today! It's become so imbalanced, it's simply pathetic now.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Interceptor

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Looks interesting, Quick.
Thanks for sharing.

I would also like to advocate again, David Deida's Way of the Superior Man,

As there are ways and methods to off set these negative effects.
And the sooner you get started on that path, the less effect those negative things will have on you, AND the better life you will have anyway as a result.


All is not lost, gentlemen.
But...you have been warned.


The Threat is REAL.





You have the green light.
Get to it.
Good to go?
 

AgonyUncle

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wayword said:
It's pretty much a "perfect storm" against men today - with a synergystic effect of everything from xenoestrogens to feminism...Indeed, even when marriage has become such a raw deal for men - they are still begging women to marry them...on bended knee with a big fat rock! Talk about the ultimate act of AFCism!

And yet are still getting REJECTED! :crackup:

WOW, just look who has all the sexual power & leverage today! It's become so imbalanced, it's simply pathetic now.
Women change as they get older. So do men. You will see a shift in those stats as we age. When she realises that her career does not involve power lunches in Europe and deal making in New York before a ****tail event, she will realise that landing a man who is prepared to graft his ass off through the monotony is a much better deal. Unfortunately for her, the majority of men have been though enough high maintenance women and they begin to loathe the idea of marriage, especially one that is going to be a financial risk to them. We are seeing more and more mature men rejecting marriage, or marrying abroad now!

As they get older, women become more desperate to marry. Men on the other hand get less desperate.

Its not AFC to want a family. Its normal ****ing behavior, and calling someone AFC because he wishes to have a family is riculous. Why are we going to admonish men as being weak for wanting what they have always wanted? I want a family. Family should be the cornerstone of anyones life. I am just not prepared to settle for some high maintainence cow though. Its like trying to find a needle in a haystack these days
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Parents, teachers, and mental health professionals are worried about boys.
Ah, but start instituting educational programs that favor boys, exclude girls from masculinity building practices, or install affirmative action policies that compensate only males and watch how violent the reaction will be.

This is generation AFC.
 

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Master Bates

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Someone Much cooler said:
sometimes this site sounds lke well anti-woman. like feminism, but a male version! its scary, freaking conspiracy theories
Conspiracy theories? Oh do tell.
 

Aboleo

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Thats pretty freaky, Quicksilver. Men are becomming more feminine, sperm counts are down... do you think all these erectile dysfunction commercials on television might have something to do with this as well, I mean, as a result of it?

I'll check out that book when I can. There is another book that reminded me of this subject called "Mad Cow and Milk Gate" by Dr. Virgel M. Hulse. Throughout the book the author talks about the different hormones and antibiotics that have been used on cattle and the feminizing effect it has on humans when consuming meat and dairy products... scary stuff. Give it a read sometime.

AgonyUncle said:
Its like trying to find a needle in a haystack these days
Great points. And very true, but I think it's aways been that way to a large degree. Good women are just hard to find, and I'm not just talking about looks, either... I mean the whole package. I've just about givin up on trying to find one like that... But if I ever did, I'd marry her right up! :D

Then again, women probably say the same thing about us... LoL.
 
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Quiksilver

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Erectile dysfunctions is a hard one;) to come to a conclusion on because it also correlates with poor circulation or heart function.

http://www.worldandi.com/public/2001/October/ee.html

This article deals purely with the environmental factors, so it's biased in that regard, but it is interesting. I'd still recommend this book because it balances biology with sociology. This article bugs me a little because it seems to focus only on the affects these factors have on girls and women.

From Article said:
Supporting evidence comes from Michigan, where accidental contamination of cattle feed with PCBs in 1973 resulted in high concentrations in the breast milk of women who consumed tainted beef. Their sons exhibited defective genitalia.
A little extreme but it demonstrates with hard evidence that humans are not impervious to environmental chemicals, and our bodies have a hard time processing some chemicals, probably because they didn't even exist on the planet until roughly 60 years ago.

Thanks for the tip, im making a run to the library tomorrow so Ill see if they have that one in.

--

And I'm hardly saying women are the enemy... All humans are victims.

Another article that describes endocrine disruptors, courtesy of wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor
 

wayword

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Valley Boys?

Has anyone noticed that guys even SOUND like lispy valley girls these days?

Let's say a "manly" voice would be like Vin Diesel, Sly Stallone, Don LaFontaine, James Earl Jones, etc.

Well, around my local college, I notice that half the dudes sound like girly queens. Style is a pretty good example of this. Has anyone else noticed this?

This would tend to imply that there has been some biochemical feminization going on... :nervous:
 

Master Bates

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wayword said:
Has anyone noticed that guys even SOUND like lispy valley girls these days?

Let's say a "manly" voice would be like Vin Diesel, Sly Stallone, Don LaFontaine, James Earl Jones, etc.

Well, around my local college, I notice that half the dudes sound like girly queens. Style is a pretty good example of this. Has anyone else noticed this?

This would tend to imply that there has been some biochemical feminization going on... :nervous:
Tell us, what did guys sound like before "these days"?
 
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