Reyaj
Master Don Juan
oh and again I am just looking at these fighters careers... If I were to make a top 10 P4P of fighters in their prime, the list would look a lot different.
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Boxing - Right Hook?
- Thread starter Reyaj
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Sorry, I should have used the word debating. It is your opinion, but its based only on very limited knowledge when it comes to the history of the sport.
All the guys mentioned are ATG's, but I would not have Zale, Graziano, Basillio, Morales, Barerra, LaMotta, Foreman or Chavez in the top 10 of all-time.
DLH has fought more world champions than any man of his era, he has attained titles in more divisions than any man in history (that being said, 2 divisions is 1 division back in the day, and titles were a lot harder to come by then as there was only one), but he still has remarkable acheivements. Wins over Quartey, Vargas, Mayorga, Chavez (past it, but not by that much), Whitaker (past it, but again, not totally diminished like the Pea who fought Tito), man the list goes on and on with top guys his fought, even guys like Gatti, Leija, these were world champions .BHOP, I cant even count that fight, thats like critisizing Pazienza for being destroyed by Roy Jones Jr, its an obvious mis match from the get go due to a rediculous natural weight advantage the larger man enjoyed. Then close fights with Tito and Mosley (2 of the 3 I thought he won). That justifies a very high place in history for me, but I would still not have him in the top 10.
And my rankings are looking at careers also. Man, look at Armstrong, holding the featherweight, light and welter titles all at once, and then nearly winning the middle title to a man he had previously beat. With great names on the record. That is something special, and something that deserves a spot in the top 10. Ray Robinson beat Olson, LaMotta, Basillio, Gavilan, Fullmer, Angotta, Armstrong, Zivic, Turpin man that is what is simply incredible.
All the guys mentioned are ATG's, but I would not have Zale, Graziano, Basillio, Morales, Barerra, LaMotta, Foreman or Chavez in the top 10 of all-time.
DLH has fought more world champions than any man of his era, he has attained titles in more divisions than any man in history (that being said, 2 divisions is 1 division back in the day, and titles were a lot harder to come by then as there was only one), but he still has remarkable acheivements. Wins over Quartey, Vargas, Mayorga, Chavez (past it, but not by that much), Whitaker (past it, but again, not totally diminished like the Pea who fought Tito), man the list goes on and on with top guys his fought, even guys like Gatti, Leija, these were world champions .BHOP, I cant even count that fight, thats like critisizing Pazienza for being destroyed by Roy Jones Jr, its an obvious mis match from the get go due to a rediculous natural weight advantage the larger man enjoyed. Then close fights with Tito and Mosley (2 of the 3 I thought he won). That justifies a very high place in history for me, but I would still not have him in the top 10.
And my rankings are looking at careers also. Man, look at Armstrong, holding the featherweight, light and welter titles all at once, and then nearly winning the middle title to a man he had previously beat. With great names on the record. That is something special, and something that deserves a spot in the top 10. Ray Robinson beat Olson, LaMotta, Basillio, Gavilan, Fullmer, Angotta, Armstrong, Zivic, Turpin man that is what is simply incredible.
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Yeah I agree with that assement of DLH. He wouldn't be in the top 10 but again if he does end up fighting Mayweather and is able to somehow beat him, I think he moves up dramatically. That being said, I can't objectively say I would pick Oscar to win that fight as Floyd is just so talented and in his prime.
and yeah there is no doubt that Sugar Ray is the number P4P all time. The one guy that had a chance to perhaps challenge him for that was Roy Jones Jr.... but we all know what happend to him down the stretch.
Anyone catch the Barrera Juarez fight? I missed it but heard it was a snoozer.
I'm looking forward to Paqquaio Morales II
and yeah there is no doubt that Sugar Ray is the number P4P all time. The one guy that had a chance to perhaps challenge him for that was Roy Jones Jr.... but we all know what happend to him down the stretch.
Anyone catch the Barrera Juarez fight? I missed it but heard it was a snoozer.
I'm looking forward to Paqquaio Morales II
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Corrales Cassamayor tommorow!
You mean Morales V Pac 3? Yeah, should be interesting, hard one to pick! But I think Pac will win the bout to take the trilogy.
Juarez V Barerra was pretty boring, didnt miss much.
Mayweather V Carlos will be great, but I think Mayweather will pick him apart and win a closer than expected UD.
I picked Casa to beat Corrales, but its always gonna be a hard fight to call.
I would take DLH over Mayweather if they were to fight at 154. DLH is too big and strong, with a complete set of skills, nothing Mayweather has ever had to deal with in his life before. DLH is just too big for him, but Mayweather definately has a shot if he can handle the size difference and doesnt turn up with pillows in his gloves like he did against Judah.
Juarez V Barerra was pretty boring, didnt miss much.
Mayweather V Carlos will be great, but I think Mayweather will pick him apart and win a closer than expected UD.
I picked Casa to beat Corrales, but its always gonna be a hard fight to call.
I would take DLH over Mayweather if they were to fight at 154. DLH is too big and strong, with a complete set of skills, nothing Mayweather has ever had to deal with in his life before. DLH is just too big for him, but Mayweather definately has a shot if he can handle the size difference and doesnt turn up with pillows in his gloves like he did against Judah.
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Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Who would you say uses this punch the best?
I guess Tua and Ricardo Mayorga come right to my mind?
I guess Tua and Ricardo Mayorga come right to my mind?
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Right Hook
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Yea you are right... Mayorga's right seems to come down on the opponent so its probably technically an over hand right. Mosley's overhand seems to be more straight and less loopy.
Im just really trying to study styles right now and am interested why one style might work well against another. The Mayorga Forrest fight really is interesting because Vernon is a very conventional boxer while Mayorga is a wild slugger. Since most boxing schools or experts feel learning the conventional style is most affective I guess for the balance of defense and offense it provides, how come Mayorga's wild style beat Vernon?
Even in the Trinidad fight, Mayorga was actually ahead on points after a few rounds, so if it was a short fight he could have gotten the decision. I see how Trinidad broke him down and basically killed him at the end, but still there seems to be sufficient proof throughout history that a brawlers style can work...
Im just really trying to study styles right now and am interested why one style might work well against another. The Mayorga Forrest fight really is interesting because Vernon is a very conventional boxer while Mayorga is a wild slugger. Since most boxing schools or experts feel learning the conventional style is most affective I guess for the balance of defense and offense it provides, how come Mayorga's wild style beat Vernon?
Even in the Trinidad fight, Mayorga was actually ahead on points after a few rounds, so if it was a short fight he could have gotten the decision. I see how Trinidad broke him down and basically killed him at the end, but still there seems to be sufficient proof throughout history that a brawlers style can work...
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Mayorga had an ok first round against Tito, until he put his chin out. He then knocked down Tito, but it was very flash, didnt hurt him at all. This is the reason he was doing ok up until that point. He was however, being solidly outboxed. Its just the way fights are scored, a KD is equivelant to 2 rounds.
Forrest is a boxer puncher. But no way close to your slick boxer type. Again, his jab is sloppy, and he is relatively easy to hit. Plus he holds a lot. Watch Quartey walk through his jab also.
Of course a slugger can beat a boxer, if they are strong, aggressive, and throw a lot of punches. They also need a good chin and power is a big asset also (power is afterall, the great equaliser). This, Mayorga has all of. Though, any technically sound boxer with a punch (especially a very good boxer such as DLH), Mayorga has barely a chance at all. And hence he was taken apart. Just like Tunney got the better of Dempsey. Like Floyd just took apart Carlos. Like Ray Robinson got the better of LaMotta. But there are guys, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Sandy Saddler, who were not your typical boxer type, and these guys are all-time legends of the sport.
Forrest is a boxer puncher. But no way close to your slick boxer type. Again, his jab is sloppy, and he is relatively easy to hit. Plus he holds a lot. Watch Quartey walk through his jab also.
Of course a slugger can beat a boxer, if they are strong, aggressive, and throw a lot of punches. They also need a good chin and power is a big asset also (power is afterall, the great equaliser). This, Mayorga has all of. Though, any technically sound boxer with a punch (especially a very good boxer such as DLH), Mayorga has barely a chance at all. And hence he was taken apart. Just like Tunney got the better of Dempsey. Like Floyd just took apart Carlos. Like Ray Robinson got the better of LaMotta. But there are guys, Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Sandy Saddler, who were not your typical boxer type, and these guys are all-time legends of the sport.
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
I guess history shows that a good boxer will beat a brawler most often.
ie: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson
I guess I am trying to learn what style I should focus on. I am an agressive person so I am leaning more toward the brawling style.
ie: Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson
I guess I am trying to learn what style I should focus on. I am an agressive person so I am leaning more toward the brawling style.
I think it simply comes down to what suits your natural abilities. If your strong, and dont have the best boxing brain or coordination, then definately fight like a pressure fighter.Jayer said:
If you can, and have the natural ability, skills and reflexes, speed, then try to box. Either way, if your a pressure fighter, your going to have to learn the basics, guys like Mayorga are very rare, and in the end, they all get severely punished!
Lewis V Tyson was a WAY past prime Tyson. A prime Tyson would have a good chance of taking Lewis head off!
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
Hey Castielljo knocked out Felix Sturm who has an A+ jab.
How do you explain that one?
How do you explain that one?
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Against Kostya Tzsyu? He's Australian/Russian. Great punch that one!Mayfly said:
Watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o7A3rMN6Co
Reyaj
Master Don Juan
is Tszyu retired?
Great boxer right there. He should fight Tito at 147!
Great boxer right there. He should fight Tito at 147!
squirrels
Master Don Juan
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A hooking punch is always going to take longer to reach its target than a straight punch. Since a traditional right-handed boxer usually fights with the left side forward, the right hook also has to come from the back, so it has a longer distance to travel. Plus to get any power behind it, you need to turn your hips way out of position.
Still, I wouldn't say it's completely useless. True that it's difficult to throw from a traditional boxing stance and as a standalone punch gives your opponent too much time to react. But in a flurry or combination, it can still be effective. Also, you can adjust your stance to get more out of the punch. Try stepping "off-line" from your opponent...throw your jab or some other punch to get their attention and as you do, take a step with your right foot off along their side and throw your right cross or hook from that position.
Catch 'em along the side of the lower jaw...that's where the knock-out spot is.
Still, I wouldn't say it's completely useless. True that it's difficult to throw from a traditional boxing stance and as a standalone punch gives your opponent too much time to react. But in a flurry or combination, it can still be effective. Also, you can adjust your stance to get more out of the punch. Try stepping "off-line" from your opponent...throw your jab or some other punch to get their attention and as you do, take a step with your right foot off along their side and throw your right cross or hook from that position.
Catch 'em along the side of the lower jaw...that's where the knock-out spot is.
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