Bodybuilding vs Powerlifting

[Amazing]

Why though? You can get stronger in ANY rep range. you'll get size gains in the 3-5 rep range. Yet if the guy worked up to that same weight in a rep range where he has his muscles under more tension he's going to get more SIZE gains. I don't understand why that's so hard to comprehend.

For some reason when a lot of people think about bodybuilding and higher reps, they think of a huge ass guy lifting up 15 lb dumbbells with a pinky twist. It's just ****in stupid.

Powerbuilding sounds better, get stronger in some main exercises that work for you and do some isolation work alongside to build up any weak/lagging parts so in the end you ultimately have a proportionate/aesthetic physique..

you meant strength in the third sentence. so 8-12 is the way to go? I am interested like I said I did 4-8 reps all my life, sometimes 4-6.. I think I missed out

 

[Fuglydude]

Current program for me:

I definitely do both compound and isolation. Mostly focus on compound stuff though.

Squat day:

- Warm up (stretches, powerclean or dumbell snatch)
- Back squat
* warm up sets,
* 1 set jump squats
* max work singles (work upto a 1RM)
* 2 work sets.
* 1 x 20 rep set.
- Weighted Pulls (for spinal decompression, do em after squat sets)
* 3-5 work sets (varied resistance 90-115 lbs + BW)
- Seated bicep curls:
* 2-3 sets
- 2 of these 4:
* 2 sets hamstring curls
* 2 sets leg ext.
* 2 sets donkey calve raises.
* 2 sets weighted pistols.

Deadlift Day:

- Warm up (stretches, powerclean or dumbell snatch)

- Deadlift:

* Warm up singles (work to 1 RM)
* 2-3 work sets (6-10 reps depending on weight)

Weighted Dips:

* One set for spinal decompression after each deadlift set as I see fit
(usually 4-5 sets. Weights vary from 90-145 lbs + BW).
* Also do core work, 3-4 sets of tricep isolation work.

Push/Pull day:

Warm up (stretches, olympic lifts)

* 3-4 sets incline dumbell press
* 3-4 sets Dumbell rows (kroc row style)
- superset these w/ shoulder raises (lat, ant, post. raises)
* 2 sets reverse grip bench
* 2 wide grip chin ups/sternum chin ups
* 2 sets dumbell shoulder press
* 2 sets seated row

That's my current basic routine.

Have some older pics up on this album:

http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/Treydesmon/

 

[Jitterbug]

This is getting funny. The OP isn't missing out on any golden routine that everyone else is using to get results, but isn't telling him.

You TRAIN at the gym to trigger your body for changes.

You EAT to give your body fuel for changes.

You SLEEP to give your body the chance to apply the changes.

You're not gonna miss out on anything by doing a few extra or less reps. If you're already doing compound lifts, you got the routine part covered. If your body isn't changing, it's a combination of three things:

1: You're not training hard enough.
2: You're not eating the right things / right amount.
3: You're not sleeping enough.

Training is actually very easy compared to the other two. That is why every guy asks about training, because that's what they can follow the best. Few have the consistent discipline and the priority set straight enough to follow up that hard work at training with good diet and sleep.

 

[CarlitosWay]

This is getting funny. The OP isn't missing out on any golden routine that everyone else is using to get results, but isn't telling him.

There's never going to be a golden routine for training in powerlifting nor bodybuilding. Yet is there going to be an optimal routines for what the person has in mind to achieve as an end result? Yes. If a freakin' newbie wants to ultimately look like a bodybuilder you don't throw him on starting strength, it's just ****in' stupid. You help him make up a routine that has him in the gym at least 4-5 days a week with money compound movements (that work for his bodytype) +isolation work and tell him to train with bodybuilders/knowledgeable lifters and to not eat like a pigeon everyday and rest up.

You TRAIN at the gym to trigger your body for changes.

You EAT to give your body fuel for changes.

You SLEEP to give your body the chance to apply the changes.

You're not gonna miss out on anything by doing a few extra or less reps. If you're already doing compound lifts, you got the routine part covered. If your body isn't changing, it's a combination of three things:

1: You're not training hard enough.
2: You're not eating the right things / right amount.
3: You're not sleeping enough.

*pounds head against his keyboard*
Anyone who has been training seriously longer than 1-2 years KNOWS this.

Where talking about why bodybuilders train higher reps/more exercise selection/variation....MUSCLES PUT UNDER MORE TENSION = MORE MUSCLE TRAUMA WHICH EQUALS MORE MUSCLE BUILT as long as food intake and sleep are adequate enough.

Training is actually very easy compared to the other two. That is why every guy asks about training, because that's what they can follow the best. Few have the consistent discipline and the priority set straight enough to follow up that hard work at training with good diet and sleep.

zzzz....

 

[CarlitosWay]

you meant strength in the third sentence. so 8-12 is the way to go? I am interested like I said I did 4-8 reps all my life, sometimes 4-6.. I think I missed out

Yeah you can get stronger in any rep range but like I've said a gazillion times over, you want more time under tension. Some people might respond better in the 4-8 rep range, others in the 12-15. I'm a fan of mixing it up.

4-8 reps are fine..Everyone is different. Kevin Levrone and Dorian Yates trained a lot around the 6 rep range also. I imagine if you kept doing your heavy work followed by 1-2 working sets of 12-15 reps. You would get some real nice gains as your body is not used to that high of reps.

Or just try doing 8-15 reps for a bit, give your joints a break from the lower heavier reps and than jump back into that heavy training later. Joints/tendons can use a break from time to time as they at heal a lot slower than muscles.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Current program for me:

I definitely do both compound and isolation. Mostly focus on compound stuff though.

Squat day:

- Warm up (stretches, powerclean or dumbell snatch)
- Back squat
* warm up sets,
* 1 set jump squats
* max work singles (work upto a 1RM)
* 2 work sets.
* 1 x 20 rep set.
- Weighted Pulls (for spinal decompression, do em after squat sets)
* 3-5 work sets (varied resistance 90-115 lbs + BW)
- Seated bicep curls:
* 2-3 sets
- 2 of these 4:
* 2 sets hamstring curls
* 2 sets leg ext.
* 2 sets donkey calve raises.
* 2 sets weighted pistols.

Deadlift Day:

- Warm up (stretches, powerclean or dumbell snatch)

- Deadlift:

* Warm up singles (work to 1 RM)
* 2-3 work sets (6-10 reps depending on weight)

Weighted Dips:

* One set for spinal decompression after each deadlift set as I see fit
(usually 4-5 sets. Weights vary from 90-145 lbs + BW).
* Also do core work, 3-4 sets of tricep isolation work.

Push/Pull day:

Warm up (stretches, olympic lifts)

* 3-4 sets incline dumbell press
* 3-4 sets Dumbell rows (kroc row style)
- superset these w/ shoulder raises (lat, ant, post. raises)
* 2 sets reverse grip bench
* 2 wide grip chin ups/sternum chin ups
* 2 sets dumbell shoulder press
* 2 sets seated row

That's my current basic routine.

Have some older pics up on this album:

http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/Treydesmon/

You have a real nice physique. Awesome capped shoulders..Good width on back and nice thickness.

The only thing that I feel you're really lacking is a nice upper chest...I barely see any real upper chest thickness. Could be genetics or what not but you only have one incline movement and no flys ? I'm sure if you started hitting your upper chest two times a week and have one day where all you do is 1-2 low incline pressing movements (25-30 degree angle on bench as to minimize shoulder involvement best)(HS machine + db or barbell) followed by low incline cable/db flys or standing low cable flys like so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lq2bW3OBS0

hell even was reading about Clay Hyght recommending to super set a low incline movement with flys. You'll have a drop in weight used of course @ first. Yet I'm sure after a few months your upper chest will come up big time.

 

[CarlitosWay]

OK, I understand wanting to look good. I don't have anything against it. We think muscular people look good because it's sign that the person is strong. Being strong helps you survive, and we inherently find people who have good survival traits attractive because we're biologically programmed to want to give our offspring the best chance of survival. That's why chicks like muscular guys (although the bodybuilders are taking it way too far to the point where it looks unnatural and most people don't find it attractive at all).

The problem is that many people have found a way to "trick" their bodies into looking strong without actually being strong. Have you ever seen the kids in their ****ty Honda civics with the loud, annoying exhausts, flame stickers, big wings on the trunks, etc? They're trying to give off the appearance of being fast when they aren't actually fast. To me it's the same as training to look strong without actually being strong. I just find it bizarre.

Show me all these people that have "tricked" their bodies into looking strong with out actually being strong in the exercises they chose. I'll wait for a 1-2 real good examples. The only ones I could see you actually using rightfully so are the guys loaded to the gills on Synthol oils.



Why not just get strong? Then you'll look strong and actually be able to back it up. I would rather have a car that looks fast and goes fast than a car that looks fast but isn't. Plus there are lots of benefits to actually being strong and athletic besides how you look. If you're going to bother going to the gym in the first place you may as well reap all the benefits. And anyway, strength training is fun

Also, I like having goals to set and reach, and there aren't many other hobbies that are so quantitative in the way you set goals and measure progress. I'm a very analytical person so that is important to me, just going by the mirror doesn't mean anything to me because it's so subjective; it's not really a precise, quantitative way to measure anything. If I was training for looks and measuring progress with a mirror I think I would have gotten bored and quit by now.

So you like to give advice to people who want to look great in the mirror and be strong ?? When you don't even train for looks?

Worse analogy tho with the cars....lol!!!! Your body doesn't give a **** if it's a machine or barbell/db. If you get a challenging weight on there and rep that **** out. It will only know one of two things depending on food intake. Get that muscle bigger or get it stronger....

That is why most of these beginners would be better off learning from an anatomy and physiology book and + training around people who are knowledgeable in physique/strength goals or that guy who has built an average to below average physique/strength up to something IMPRESSIVE .

All that would be better than reading a lot of misconceptions on the internet or what's found in most articles.

 

[CarlitosWay]

double post

 

[CarlitosWay]

This post illustrates perfectly the guys I see at my gym year in and year out on overly complicated bodybuilding programs:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=173444

That's not an overly complicated bodybuilding program. It's a poorly designed bodybuilding program. Huge difference there buddy. I'll fix it up and he'll be well on his way to getting that dense muscle powerlifters have and that aesthetic/proportional look nattie bodybuilders have.

 

[cuzza]

That routine looks solid... I don't see the issue. Some exercises could be replaced with better ones, but there's nothing complex about that.

 

[CaptainJ]

That routine looks solid... I don't see the issue. Some exercises could be replaced with better ones, but there's nothing complex about that.

Any beginner program that does not focus on squats, deadlifts, has an arms days and uses the smith machine is not a solid routine.

 

[cuzza]

Gotta disagree once again, to me squats and deadlifts are not necessary. They're damn good exercises, however you can still build leg size and your lower back with other exercises. There are many bodybuilders who do not use either of those exercises.

I don't like the smith machine but many do, and many people get results by that. I do think it's excellent for shoulder pressing however, but it's down to what people get results from...

An arms day is essential for optimum growth in my opinion.

 

[CarlitosWay]

So you're saying that machines are just as good as free weights for strength gains?

You can make strength gains in anything machine or free weights. You're body doesn't know the difference, it just knows there's a resistance and it's doing its best to move it.

Some one can work up his machine hack squats to 5 plates per side for 8 reps.

Another guy can work up his front squat to 4 plates per side for 8 reps. They're both going to have big strong legs in the end. It doesn't freakin' matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless you're a powerlifter and have to train your movements, low bar squat, deadlift and flat bar bench press for meets.

People get more proficient/stronger in specific movements they choose be it machine or free weights. Granted free weights are harder cause of the stabilizing issue.

I'm just jumping back into floord deadlifts. I got 365X2@170 lbs bw which I feel is not good for my experience level. It's cause I have to get used to the movement more/again, get technique pat down and I'll have 4pps in no time.

 

[Amazing]

You can make strength gains in anything machine or free weights. You're body doesn't know the difference, it just knows there's a resistance and it's doing its best to move it.

Some one can work up his machine hack squats to 5 plates per side for 8 reps.

Another guy can work up his front squat to 4 plates per side for 8 reps. They're both going to have big strong legs in the end. It doesn't freakin' matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless you're a powerlifter and have to train your movements, low bar squat, deadlift and flat bar bench press for meets.

People get more proficient/stronger in specific movements they choose be it machine or free weights. Granted free weights are harder cause of the stabilizing issue.

I'm just jumping back into floord deadlifts. I got 365X2@170 lbs bw which I feel is not good for my experience level. It's cause I have to get used to the movement more/again, get technique pat down and I'll have 4pps in no time.

arent stabilizers going to be a lot more involved with free weights? and are you saying doing flat bench is just for meets? that is the best chest exercise out there?

 

[CarlitosWay]

arent stabilizers going to be a lot more involved with free weights? and are you saying doing flat bench is just for meets? that is the best chest exercise out there?

One universal rule I believe in when it comes to the iron game. Is find out what works for YOU. Not everyone was built to do every freakin' exercise as intended.

My friend as an example, he naturally has big ass shoulders and his delts take over a lot in the bench press. They get fried before his tris/chest do.

He wants to bring up his chest thickness/size. Now buddy what do you suggest he should do?!?!?!

There's no generic "best" exercise. Walk into any gym and you'll see all sorts of people with different leverages. Getting into the gym and the individual experimenting with money exercises is what needs to be done. With some machine/iso work to supplement his training also, if his goal is to get as big and strong as hell.

 

[EFFORT]

These types of debates are really getting old. Powerbuilding type routines will lead the majority of guys to there goals. No point in wasting time debating something thats been solved years ago. Lets talk about important stuff like diet, being consitent, saving money on food, how to stay on track with lifestyle issues (social life, jobs) , cooking meals , eating schedules....the stuff that really matters.

 

[Amazing]

These types of debates are really getting old. Powerbuilding type routines will lead the majority of guys to there goals. No point in wasting time debating something thats been solved years ago. Lets talk about important stuff like diet, being consitent, saving money on food, how to stay on track with lifestyle issues (social life, jobs) , cooking meals , eating schedules....the stuff that really matters.

Ok, besides drinking vodka+soda+ lemon, what can I drink to get buzzed yet not get calorie avelanche?

I will sometimes eat less on days that I plan on drinking, but it still sucks because you can clearly see how it affects your physique.

 

[cuzza]

arent stabilizers going to be a lot more involved with free weights? and are you saying doing flat bench is just for meets? that is the best chest exercise out there?

A lot of people don't believe in it, including many top pros. Dorian Yates for example says it's a very poor pec exercise, and is more of an ego lift... for many, it's an injury waiting to happen. Dorian advocates low incline presses and declines for chest mass... to be honest, I'm not a bench fan, but it's each to their own.

 

[EFFORT]

Ok, besides drinking vodka+soda+ lemon, what can I drink to get buzzed yet not get calorie avelanche?

I will sometimes eat less on days that I plan on drinking, but it still sucks because you can clearly see how it affects your physique.

The first step is to figure out what it is your trying to accomplish. Then write out a diet with specific meal times/food choices and quantities for each day of the week. Once this is figured out then we can plug in deviations for drinking, cheat meals, etc.

 

[Colossus]

Guys respectfully, this is weight training. Not particle physics.

If you want to focus on size and symmetry, do more volume, rep variety, and some isolation movements.

If you want to be a powerlifter, you'll probably want to hit a lot of heavy triples, and heavy singles. Focus on big-three technique and work capacity. Use assistance exercises selectively, keep volume lower.

For general physique and strength, you can hit the big lifts and cherry-pick bodybuilding exercises to your liking.

Here's some examples of my typical sessions. I'm 240+ @ 5'11''.

Rack pulls---work up to heavy singles. 675-700+.
RDLs---sets of 5-10 with 365-455.
Chins---all types, lots of reps.
Cable rows---high reps.


Box squats with strong bands---work up to heavy triples.
Belt squats---3-4 sets of 10-20 deep reps.
Axle clean and press---work up to a max sex of 3-5.

Bench w/ 120 lbs chains---heavy triples.
Flat or incline---3-4 sets 15-20 reps.
Cable tricep work
Bench dips w/ weight


As you can see, not a ton of volume. I care mostly about strength, but I look decent because my diet is good and my muscle has good density.

A few pics from my last meet:

http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h3a59d2a9
http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h35d36ea7
http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h26eb06e7
http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h2bb6c1bb
http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h3eaeb10c
http://feigenson.zenfolio.com/ripowerlifting2010/h3a59d2a9#h3491aaf1

Not the biggest guy, but not the smallest!