Body Count: The "debate" persists

[RangerMIke]

Having lots of partners is a byproduct of low self-esteem and inability to form bonds. Not the other way around.

This is treating the symptom as the cause.

 

[BaronOfHair]

A lot of the mental health problems men have is not being able to attract and sleep with hot young women

Similar to chowing down on Baskin Robbins for lunch EVERY day of the week, rather than 5. Too much of anything, no matter how tasty, can have unforeseen side effects, just maybe

 

[BaronOfHair]

Unpopular take inbound, but these threads always feel like the despondent opinions of people who missed the boat in their prime dating years

2nd vid in The OP is from a fella who, from the beginning of his public career, has maintained that Feminism is a noble cause gone awry. Even though folks who weren't by any means Right Wingers had, as far back as '72, recognized the movement was poison at his core https://www.nytimes.com/1972/07/30/archives/the-womens-movement-women.html

R. Glover's thinking in some respects remains tainted and schizophrenic: Previously, he's urged men to AVOID "seductive women" I.E. Gals who are likely to have high body counts

 

[zekko]

And that argument that men and women are the same doesnt hold unless we all forget that a low body count man or worse yet a virgin is seeing from women as the pinnacle of failure while the opposite doesnt exist.

Men are expected to have a certain level of sexual proficiency, so that comes with a certain amount of experience. That doesn't necessarily require a high body count though, as you could explore a lot with one woman, if she's willing. There are sex skills for women also, but I'm not sure guys would hold it against them if they don't possess them. Although it's a plus for the girls to be open minded...

 

[Divorced w 3]

Men are expected to have a certain level of sexual proficiency, so that comes with a certain amount of experience. That doesn't necessarily require a high body count though, as you could explore a lot with one woman, if she's willing. There are sex skills for women also, but I'm not sure guys would hold it against them if they don't possess them. Although it's a plus for the girls to be open minded...

And that's kind of what I was I was trying to say - and understand I don't disagree with the premise - but at something like 6am or whenever I wrote that, in shorthand - that the idea that a prime would be, according to me anyway, high school graduation through college, which in most cases allows people to have 4 solid years of endless supply of women to interact with.

Now look, I understand that some people here didn't hit their stride yet, and that's totally understandable - and I'm glad those people are here either figuring it out OR, they figured it out and they're giving back. However, I think the idea of a decent sized school in which you're on campus for the majority of time, someone is going to match your personality, in any way necessary, for you to go roll around in the sheets and help each other figure out what works. Or to put it another way, given that men are not the only ones with hormones in high supply at the teenage to college years, if you had a handful of steady relationships, even as the biggest introvert, you'd probably find another introvert, and even the biggest prude that was ultimately sexually active with you, was going to bang you twice a day, and be open to most ideas.

So if you go by that thought process, which could be totally wrong, these videos, from the likes of Richard Clickbait Cooper, feel incredibly mid.

 

[zekko]

Now look, I understand that some people here didn't hit their stride yet, and that's totally understandable - and I'm glad those people are here either figuring it out OR, they figured it out and they're giving back. However, I think the idea of a decent sized school in which you're on campus for the majority of time, someone is going to match your personality, in any way necessary, for you to go roll around in the sheets and help each other figure out what works. Or to put it another way, given that men are not the only ones with hormones in high supply at the teenage to college years, if you had a handful of steady relationships, even as the biggest introvert, you'd probably find another introvert, and even the biggest prude that was ultimately sexually active with you, was going to bang you twice a day, and be open to most ideas.

I listened to this manosphere podcast, and there was a guest on there, can't remember who. But he was a guy who was saying that his research showed that most guys weren't getting anything in college, only the top frat guys and athletes were. He was very much an 80/20 type of guy. I'm not sure that I've ever quite believed that concept, that 80% of guys don't get anything. I mean, I'm sure the top guys are getting the most variety and number of girls, but I don't buy the idea that the majority of guys get nothing.

My college experience wasn't really typical, so I can't really refer to that. I went to school a few years later than most, and I worked full time while taking a full load of classes, so I didn't have any free time. I had made a decision to focus on my studies for my career, so I basically gave up socializing. One of the best decisions I ever made IMO, as it paid dividends that I am still receiving today. Although I did date in the summer. The last year I did have an LTR I had found during the summer, but I fell asleep on her a lot lol. She didn't care, she was happy just to see me, and know that I wasn't out banging some other girl.

 

[BeExcellent]

Agree with @Divorced w 3 on this. You do NOT have to be promiscous to gain experience. If you are in a LTR and sex is occuring only 3 times a week regularly that is 156 times a year. You see that person for 3 years and thats approaching 500 sexual experiences!

And many people have sex much more often than that in LTRs. So you can have people with a very low partner count who are plenty experienced at sex.

Most people I knew in college & my 20s were involved with someone. Very few were the true player types or the true 304s. Very very few. And the ones who were? They were preceeded by their reputation, which often was not a positive thing.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Agree with @Divorced w 3 on this. You do NOT have to be promiscous to gain experience. If you are in a LTR and sex is occuring only 3 times a week regularly that is 156 times a year. You see that person for 3 years and thats approaching 500 sexual experiences!

And many people have sex much more often than that in LTRs. So you can have people with a very low partner count who are plenty experienced at sex.

Most people I knew in college & my 20s were involved with someone. Very few were the true player types or the true 304s. Very very few. And the ones who were? They were preceeded by their reputation, which often was not a positive thing.

What I do seem to notice is, in the 30's and 40's and I imagine onward, less people seem to care about the stigma. From the limited research I gathered in that age-group and from word of mouth, it sounds like people are just hooking up. From a philosophical standpoint, I do get it.

 

[BeExcellent]

What I do seem to notice is, in the 30's and 40's and I imagine onward, less people seem to care about the stigma. From the limited research I gathered in that age-group and from word of mouth, it sounds like people are just hooking up. From a philosophical standpoint, I do get it.

I do think people get to a point of "Fvck it". There is a woman locally who is well known socially. She is an acquaintence of mine through social circle. She was married 25 years and raised 2 kids who are now late 20s/early 30s. She's been divorced 15+ years, cycling through short term situationships. She is pushing 60 and still has a sexiness about her that is magnetic to men. She's smart & successful. But she (and her grown daughter) are hedonism 101 embodied. Down for whatever with whoever. She is the town bicycle. And she has become terribly insecure because all the guys want to fvck her, none want to be in a relationship with her (or her daughter who is following suit.

She becomes more & more bitter and jealous of women who are holding down LTRs or are married. Its quite sad.

In time hedonistic behavior goes nowhere good.

 

[BaronOfHair]

From the limited research I gathered in that age-group and from word of mouth, it sounds like people are just hooking up

Just hooking up is great: Our species didn't become as plentiful as we are via Hallmark Card Movie unions. Big difference between THAT and being the sort of fool who hops into bed with almost any f-c-ing thing indiscriminately

As someone else hinted at earlier in this thread, a preponderance of folks with body counts of over 1,000 has long been a bane of the gay community, especially among gay men. We straights go down that same road at our own peril

 

[BaronOfHair]

On a side-note:

Dude in that 2nd video is the subject of the following article https://archive.seattletimes.com/ar...rapist-wants-men-to-reclaim-their-masculinity

We ALL(men and women alike)could benefit from a social climate where we can once again discuss "men's issues" in mainstream outlets(As was the case in '02, when the linked article was written), rather than being relegated to obscure corners of social media

Quote the article: "For many years it was really very lonely," (Asa)Baber says. "There were a lot of years there where most men just retreated into a shell. Most men over the last 20 or 30 years have not wanted to engage in the gender debate. They just shut up."

We've been in similar straits for the last decade, with most men retreating into The Manosphere on YouTube or into fantasy worlds on X-Box, then mistaking this for "fighting back"

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm not sure that I've ever quite believed that concept, that 80% of guys don't get anything.

It's not that they "get nothing" so much as they end up settling for table scraps. Not just in the realm of dating and mating, but in just about ALL areas of their lives. This isn't even an especially new phenomena... I mean, let's think about it:

Much as we moderns romanticize The 1950s, how many of our forefathers who worked at the auto plant actually rose very far up the company ladder? Now, compare that small fraction who did so to the billions who pretty much spent their entire careers on the assembly line, or damned close to it

Goes without saying, the fellas in that latter camp almost universally ended up "settling" for a miserable hellcat they knocked up in the 10th grade, while the relative few men in the former camp married and sired offspring with certifiable knockouts + Had numerous side-chicks throughout their lives

 

[Bigpapa]

It's not that they "get nothing" so much as they end up settling for table scraps. Not just in the realm of dating and mating, but in just about ALL areas of their lives. This isn't even an especially new phenomena... I mean, let's think about it:

Much as we moderns romanticize The 1950s, how many of our forefathers who worked at the auto plant actually rose very far up the company ladder? Now, compare that small fraction who did so to the billions who pretty much spent their entire careers on the assembly line, or damned close to it

Goes without saying, the fellas in that latter camp almost universally ended up "settling" for a miserable hellcat they knocked up in the 10th grade, while the relative few men in the former camp married and sired offspring with certifiable knockouts + Had numerous side-chicks throughout their lives

I am not buying also that the top 20% get everything, because it means that all of these 20% guys only focus on getting laid which is kinda far away from the reality

plenty of high value guys are in relationships or focus more on their career,or just focusing with personal development and living a healthy life ,they just do not have time to go through all the p8ssy in the world

I think that women just have less sex than what men think

it is like on dating apps, women rarely actually meet up with a guy, most of them never really go on a date from dating apps

 

[Bigpapa]

Actually I noticed something quite interesting, about the top 20% of men, especially when in relationship with women bellow them from a value perspective


Men think:
“If I meet someone amazing → I pursue them → Makes total sense”

Women feel:
“He’s amazing → That’s scary → I need safe → Picks mediocre guy → Feels confused later”

They WANT high-value men (intellectually)
They FEAR high-value men (emotionally)
Fear wins more than 50% of the time

High-value men = less control for them
Lower-value men = easier to manipulate
They choose the easy route

Not ready for what they claim to want
Can’t handle the intensity they desire
Choose comfort over growth

They want the FEELING of being desired by high-value men
Don’t actually want the RELATIONSHIP with them, because they are scared

 

[Divorced w 3]

 

[Randall Stephens]

Please allow me to be unbiased and free of any moral judgment. What does a man want? And what from his life? Sex energy is the most potent force in the universe. Every man possesses a stock of it, and the question is: How does he want to use it? Giving it away to hordes of women who are useless and meaningless to him outside of sex? And for what? A few moments of fleeting pleasure to break up and distract him from his inane existence of no real accomplishment? Or does he want to cherish it for himself to transmute him into a man all history will revere and praise, while the womanizer is remembered by the emptiness of a silent death certificate?

 

[Vanderdonck]

Giving it away to hordes of women who are useless and meaningless to him outside of sex?

I've ****ed countless women and yet not one has been useless or meaningless. This is simply a trope.

Meaningless? I meant to fukk each one. The memories will last a lifetime. I'm still friends or at least in touch with many.

A few moments of fleeting pleasure to break up and distract him from his inane existence of no real accomplishment?

You can have sex with multiple partners and have a fulfilling life full of accomplishment. False binary. That goes for both men and women.

I don't see a debate here. If you want one partner, look for one partner. If you want the bachelor's life, enjoy that. Who cares what anyone else thinks about how you live your life.

 

[Randall Stephens]

I've ****ed countless women and yet not one has been useless or meaningless. This is simply a trope.

Meaningless? I meant to fukk each one. The memories will last a lifetime. I'm still friends or at least in touch with many.

Do we injure those we love along with their loved ones, all for our own selfish gratification? And furthermore, what if we're blinded to how we harm those we claim to love? Does it make the offense any less worse?

You can have sex with multiple partners and have a fulfilling life full of accomplishment. False binary. That goes for both men and women.

Not if we're talking world-shattering, universe-vibrating REVOLUTIONS! But if it's launching and running a successful casino, okay.

I don't see a debate here. If you want one partner, look for one partner. If you want the bachelor's life, enjoy that. Who cares what anyone else thinks about how you live your life.

You seem to forget you owe your society your allegiance. It gives you safety, freedom and protection. In exchange, it expects you to cooperate and be a moral man in that pact. Because if you don't, you contribute to undermining those rights and freedoms.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Or does he want to cherish it for himself to transmute him into a man all history will revere and praise, while the womanizer is remembered by the emptiness of a silent death certificate?

Genghis Khan says hello.

 

[Randall Stephens]

Genghis Khan says hello.

Who's Gighis Kwan? And how will eternity remember him? They won't even know he existed.