Blackpill reality is female reality

[BeExcellent]

My parents had an awful dynamic and a toxic dynamic. I learned nothing positive about intersexual dynamics from observing my parents' marriage.

My mom showed 0 concern about the relationship template.

She was the primary parental figure and tried to mold me as a beta male nice guy. I learned quickly that was bad news in the sexual marketplace. That's when I started to read online and re-structure everything.

I chose the red pill. I chose to see things for how they were, not based on some idealized concept of reality.

To me, the black pill (the subject of this thread) is a more pessimistic version of the red pill.

Agreed. It is a more defeatist stance as well.

I sincerely respect your recognition of the shortcomings of your upbringing, and I respect your refitting yourself to be a red pilled guy. There were shortcomings in my upbringing (my mother did not trust men and held my father in contempt secondary to her own distrust), so like you I had to sort out the wrong programming as a young adult. It ain't for sissies.

 

[SW15]

I sincerely respect your recognition of the shortcomings of your upbringing, and I respect your refitting yourself to be a red pilled guy. There were shortcomings in my upbringing (my mother did not trust men and held my father in contempt secondary to her own distrust), so like you I had to sort out the wrong programming as a young adult. It ain't for sissies.

The process of killing the nice guy beta male and refitting myself as a more sigma male was an extensive, lengthy process. It took multiple years. You're correct that it wasn't for sissies.

It didn't take much for me to see that the whole beta male nice guy thing wasn't working. I was displeased with my high school and early college interactions. I wanted to go to a different direction in the mating environment and that's when I discovered some seduction writers of the time. I was reading "nice guys finish last" articles in the early 2000s and wanted to mold myself in the manner of the successful seducer.

My father provided no guidance on the mating environment. The poor example of the relationship was the fault of both parents.

Both parents did things that I did not like.

 

[BadBoy89]

It didn't take much for me to see that the whole beta male nice guy thing wasn't working. I was displeased with my high school and early college interactions. I wanted to go to a different direction in the mating environment and that's when I discovered some seduction writers of the time. I was reading "nice guys finish last" articles in the early 2000s and wanted to mold myself in the manner of the successful seducer.

I don't think men become Beta Males come from parents. I think men become Beta males from school, society, and more so movies.

It's not good for society to have confident, strong, well established men who are good with women; Alpha Men. It's good for society to have low self esteem, low self worth feeling men who supplicate with the opposite sex; Beta men. Society needs Beta men to function. Society needs Beta men to keep the world turning, Society needs Beta men who are working men and get a salary from 9 - 5. pm. Beta men who are like robots and scared of the opposite sex. In school they teach facts and figures, in school they don't teach men how to dress well, speak correctly, how to be used by others, how to relate to the opposite sex. Why? These things gives men power and society does not want that.

More so in Hollywood movies. You see the Alpha man make a move on the hot woman and bang! 5 minutes later she takes off her clothes and is in bed with him, losing her mind making love to him. The Beta male sees this, and things "oh, that's how it works. OK, let me try that." Then when the hot girl doesn't give him the time of day, Beta man gets confused He tries harder, doesn't work. Then he gets angry and frustrated because what he sees on screen doesn't translate to real life.

I was the biggest Beta. What changed me was real life experience, and learning how to talk and dress from movies and tv shows.

 

[Mike32ct]

There is a genetic component. Two brothers (ie guys with the same parenting) can sometimes end up complete opposites: one alpha and one beta.

 

[BaronOfHair]

My parents had an awful dynamic and a toxic dynamic

They were like most couples, in other words.... Present, Past, and most likely Future

 

[BaronOfHair]

Over the past several years there has been a trend for men to seek out more feminized beauty routines such as facials, nail manicures, botox, moisturizers, risers in their shoes, etc.

This trend arises periodically in history. Foppishness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fop became the rage for a time in The 1600s, and the 1970s saw a wave of androgyny(via Glam Rock and much of The Disco Aesthetic)sweep across The Post-Industrial West, especially The Anglosphere

A backlash against this isn't inconceivable though: It wasn't especially long ago https://ew.com/gallery/22-sharp-dressed-men/ that masculine style wasn't remotely stigmatized, and we could fairly easily have a renaissance of this again

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I asked Grok what the Black Pill was in regards to Dating:
1) Looks are everything.
2) Relationships are transactional.
3) Hopelessness.

If this is a correct definition, I would agree about 75% with the Black Pill, on points 1&2. I don't agree with point 3 (I'm more Red Pilled here).

As for point 3, here is the rub. If you accept point 1, and are, like the VAST majority of men, not handsome, you will have to agree with point 3. Thus, for the vast majority of men who hold to the Black Pill, it is indeed a negative view.

However, if one is good looking (or disinterested), the Black Pill is merely a way of understanding observations or life experiences.

 

[Manure Spherian]

1) Looks are everything.

This is where disagree with the BP. There are millions of average looking men with women. And no, they aren’t all getting cheated on, used to pay bills, or being walked on by their women. And yes, many are “genuinely desired” by their women, including those with fat bellies, baldness, unimpressive salaries (<150k) and all.

 

[Solomon]

This is where I don’t agree with the BP. There are millions of average looking men with women. And no, they aren’t all getting cheated on, used to pay bills, or being walked on by their women. And yes, many are “genuinely desired” by their women, including those with fat bellies, baldness, unimpressive salaries (<150k) and all.

This is a problem with Black and Redpill the lack of nuance, always going of general or outdated statistics and trying to paint relationships with a broad brush. This is why I always urge people to research things for themselves not just by reading forums and theory but going outside interacting with women and people.

It''s very easy to tell people who understand nuance and people who just repeat manosphere talking points

 

[Manure Spherian]

This is a problem with Black and Redpill the lack of nuance, always going of general or outdated statistics and trying to paint relationships with a broad brush. This is why I always urge people to research things for themselves not just by reading forums and theory but going outside interacting with women and people.

It''s very easy to tell people who understand nuance and people who just repeat manosphere talking points

If BP were true in all areas, some of my friends and I would still be virgins. I lost my virginity when I had no money as a broke college student with only moderate attractiveness (some muscle though).

I had two consecutive flings in my 20s when I went through a nine-month unemployment stretch (only period of unemployment in my life thankfully). And yes, these flings had GBD as evidenced by the porn-come-to-life sex.

According to the BP, moderate attractiveness in a man is sub-3. It’s over for all men under 8. And if you are a sub-8 with a woman, she is cheating on you, or will divorce you, or is using you. And you have no friends. And female HR personnel will never hire you.

Many BPers also hate other men.

 

[Solomon]

If BP were true in all areas, some of my friends and I would still be virgins. I lost my virginity when I had no money as a broke college student with only moderate attractiveness (some muscle though).

I had two consecutive flings in my 20s when I went through a nine-month unemployment stretch (only period of unemployment in my life thankfully). And yes, these flings had GBD as evidenced by the porn-come-to-life sex.

According to the BP, moderate attractiveness in a man is sub-3. It’s over for all men under 8. And if you are a sub-8 with a woman, she is cheating on you, or will divorce you, or is using you. And you have no friends. And female HR personnel will never hire you.

Many BPers also hate other men.

My biggest gripe is that they spew things out of context and bastardize stats like women only go after 10% of all men. This may be true for swipe apps and their data, but it's not true in the real world. When you point this out that hey I see average guys with average women in real life, average guys with hot women and so forth. People are dismissive because you do not have the stats to back it up

Even if women only go for 10% of men online doesn't mean that Chad or Tyrone is banging all of them. #1 It would be impossible and #2 There are some ugly women that Chad's/Tyrone's wouldn't touch even if they are in a drought. That's not to say that women don't go for 10% on these apps, but that doesn't mean every woman can get even a chance with them! Most women who are looking for an LTR on swipe apps complain about being flaked on, pumped and dumped, ghosted etc. These are the outcomes of a woman chasing a man who has options. Women have no problems getting laid on swipe apps by Tyrone/Chad heck, even some ugly or fat women can get Chad-**** for a ONS but that doesn't mean they can get him to commit. Women do not count notches like men do; they measure dating success in LTR's and marriages. Most of those women eventually will either double down on these apps looking for "Mr Perfect" or they will "Date down" (which isn't dating down but dating a man realistically on their level) and find someone on their level because they will either be aged out eventually and start dating men they wouldn't have given a chance in their youth.

Back to the real world. I totally relate A few years ago I was over 275 pounds, broke and fat, and I was dating a girl 5'2, 120 pounds. According to the blackpill the only way I could do this is if I'm rich. I know it's an exception and not the rule but in real lif,e dealing with women isn't formulaic

 

[SW15]

I lost my virginity when I had no money as a broke college student with only moderate attractiveness (some muscle though).

Younger guys, especially college students, are allowed to be broke if they are good looking. Young women in that age range don't evaluate similarly aged men on money and employment. You were considered good looking enough.

Money can work for guys on a college campus, but it's not that efficient. Having a BMW, Mercedes-Benz, or Porsche at an off campus apartment can help with getting women, but women would need to know about the BMW, Mercedes-Benz, or Porsche. They would need to see the car keys with the brand's logo on it in class or at a party. Money is less efficient than looks in college. Most women are in college to prepare for working for decades after college (they won't need a man for money), their parents often have enough to help with their lifestyle, and they tend to value the more superficial appearance aspects.

On my college campus, I was aware of a few females in a certain sorority who chased rich guys. I knew of one who was dating a guy from a wealthy family, but he was 6'0"+ in height.

College has also changed since both of us were in college. If you went to college from 18-22, that would mean you were there from 1996-2000. In 1996-2000, women didn't have social media, smartphones (few even had cell phones), or online dating. It was still the earlier days of the internet then. They didn't have as much abundance in your day in college, so their standards were somewhat more reasonable. I was in college from 2001-2005 and saw the growth in pre-smartphone cell phones and the internet during my 4 years. MySpace and Facebook became factors in 2004-2005 (my senior year) and YouTube also launched during my senior year.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

To eliminate the ‘money effect’. I never listed my profession or my education on my Tinder bio.

 

[Manure Spherian]

MySpace

I got lays from MySpace and AOL chatrooms.

 

[Mike32ct]

I got lays from MySpace and AOL chatrooms.

My first gf was from Yahoo Personals.

 

[Manure Spherian]

My first gf was from Yahoo Personals.

Mine was an Asian nymph from Love@AOL who once said, “I want to suck your p3nis so good so you can brag all your friends.”

 

[CoolWave1331]

This is a problem with Black and Redpill the lack of nuance, always going of general or outdated statistics and trying to paint relationships with a broad brush. This is why I always urge people to research things for themselves not just by reading forums and theory but going outside interacting with women and people.

It''s very easy to tell people who understand nuance and people who just repeat manosphere talking points

Was on Reddit and there were lots of these types commenting on a thread saying something to effect of "if the man doesn't rate high on the looks scale no woman will look his way ever". 1) It would be very interesting to see just what exactly the guys saying this look & act like and 2) It is such a ridiculous statement that should be met with extreme skepticism (and really says a lot about the person). I think a lot of these guys live on computer and don't get out which is why they are convinced of these things. Out in real world most of the couples you see the man is some regular guy, not this fantasy they repeat of only 10/10 guys surrounded by harem of women at all times like Dan Bilzerian (and even with him lifestyle is all fake and manufactured).

I think is a coping mechanism for a lot of these guys. They are unattractive and give up so they want others to do the same. These are not good guys and nasty, poisonous bunch.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I think is a coping mechanism for a lot of these guys. They are unattractive and give up so they want others to do the same.Yeah, one of the many ironies of The Generically These are not good guys and nasty, poisonous bunch.

Yeah... Loudly and often as the generically Red Pilled doth assert "We exist separately and beyond Blue Pill Normie Society", they've been no less people of their times (From the late 10s-today, self-conscious misery

has been hip)

than the rest of us are

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

Was on Reddit and there were lots of these types commenting on a thread saying something to effect of "if the man doesn't rate high on the looks scale no woman will look his way ever". 1) It would be very interesting to see just what exactly the guys saying this look & act like and 2) It is such a ridiculous statement that should be met with extreme skepticism (and really says a lot about the person). I think a lot of these guys live on computer and don't get out which is why they are convinced of these things. Out in real world most of the couples you see the man is some regular guy, not this fantasy they repeat of only 10/10 guys surrounded by harem of women at all times like Dan Bilzerian (and even with him lifestyle is all fake and manufactured).

I think is a coping mechanism for a lot of these guys. They are unattractive and give up so they want others to do the same. These are not good guys and nasty, poisonous bunch.

Just because you seem them together it doesn't tell the full story

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

I

Advice from the old lady:

I agree with @Manure Spherian to a large degree, especially about the parenting culture affecting young men. My son is a "real man" in every sense of the word.

And his father & I were divorced, after a backwards arrangement (wife as breadwinner, husband as house spouse) compared to traditional gender roles.

One of the key reasons I divorced my first husband was I didn't like being the enabler of his ongoing depression & laziness, but even more than that I was seriously concerned about the relationship template our children were seeing/learning/absorbing.

Because of the relationship template concern, I got my son around my father and one of my brother in laws as much as possible, and I enrolled my son in an all boys military preparatory school. My ex husband is a loving father whose own father was a solid "real man" but he died tragically when my first husband was 12, and he was raised himself by a single widow who had great morals & character, but who didn't require discipline, achievement or the like because she pitied her fatherless son. Pity by the parent equates to self pity in the child. Not Good.

Knowing all that I put my son in the best environment I could where he could learn manhood from "real men", and I also knew I am not a man myself and there are certain things he needed to learn from masculine men. He also chose a kind nurturing woman for a wife, a woman much like his widowed grandmother.

My daughters have struggled a bit. They are insightful kind people with character, but have a more androgynous vibe than I like. The older one is embracing her feminine energy more in her early 20s, but its been interesting because I've historically had to assume roles that are typically associated with masculine energy over the years to acquire wealth and assure the family is taken care of.

This is deeply subconscious programming. Children are very affected by the parental dynamic.

As to black pill? Women are not limited (at least in the west), and can get educated and cultivate intelligence and achievement just as men can. More women now are enrolled in higher education in the US now than men.

So its not all about looks and attitude for women. Lots of men like these "strong women". But often these men underestimate them and end up in a weak position in relationship.

So I'd say men are more giving up and this requires women to step up, which further complicates and continues this backward dynamic.

Men have to be men. That means seeking, hunting, initiating. I cringe when I see all the posts around here for example expecting women to chase, initiate and overtly make her interest known. OMG. Wrong dynamic!

Never expect women who chase you to suddenly relinguish the masculine hunter energy and become feminine & demure. That is NOT the dynamic you pre-selected!!

I mean, if I've got to chase a woman, then that means she isn't interested.