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Beta Game

Rollo Tomassi

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Before I launch into this proper, let me define a few terms in the fashion that I interpret them. With the recent popularity of Roissy in DC's blog and a few notable others, there's been a new push with regards to using the terms Alpha and Beta (and sometimes Omega) when describing certain classifications of males in modern culture. Allow me to go on record as viewing these ideas as mindsets whereas terms such as AFC or DJ are really states of being. For instance, an Alpha can still be an AFC (called a 'paper alpha') with regards to women. A Beta male can still be as wealthy and astute as his conditions and fortune have placed him in by circumstance. Some states necessitate certain mindsets - a DJ state requires an Alpha mindset as a requirement - others do not. Also, don't make the mistake of associating success (personal and career) with an Alpha mindset. There are plenty of Alphas on hotchickswithdouchebags.com, however that doesn't necessarily make them well rounded individuals (DJ). I tend to think of the ideas Alpha and Beta as subconscious energies or attitudes that manifest themselves in our thoughts, beliefs and actions.

Beta Game

Alright now, with this in mind I'd like to propose the idea of Beta Game. Since we're using the Alpha and Beta terminology here, it's important to grasp where it comes from. Anyone with even a cursory understanding about animal social hierarchies knows the principal of Alpha and Beta individuals within a social collective. Alphas tend to be the males who exhibit the best genetic characteristics and behavioral skills that put them at the top of the potential breeding pool. In fact Betas are rarely mentioned as such in scientific studies; the Beta term, in PUA lingo is really something of a novelty. Relating these terms to human social interactions, while at times a subjective stretch, isn't to hard to find parallels in. We can see the similarity, and the applications in long term and short term breeding methodologies that mirror our own.

Like any other Beta animal, alternate methodologies had to be developed in order to facilitate human breeding under the harsh conditions of Alpha competition. In essence, and as found in the wild, Beta males have developed (evolved?) methods to 'poach' potential females from an Alpha's harem, or at least in this case his perceived, potential harem.


Identification

Beta male game focuses primarily on identifying and assimilating themselves to be more like the women they hope to connect with, but it goes further than this. The methodology dictates that the Beta be perceived as being unique (or at least set apart) from the more "common" Alpha males whom his desired women naturally prefer. This is the beginning of the "not-like-other-guys" mental schema he hopes to evoke in his idealized woman.

Due to his inability to compete with an Alpha competitor in the physical, he must fight a psychological battle on his own terms. This involves convincing his target that her best parental investment should be with him (as per her stated requirements) as he more closely embodies her long term prerequisites. The Beta likens himself to her (and women in general) in an effort to maximize his compatibility and familiarity with her and the feminine.

This identification process is then further reinforced through the feminine social conventions he subscribes to. Feminine society (both beta men and women) rewards him for more closely assimilating to its ideal - be more like an archetypal woman; sensitive, empathic, emotional, security-seeking, etc.. And not only this, but take feminine offense when presented with anything to the contrary of a female-positive perspective. Lift women up, become less so they become more, and in reciprocation she's more apt to breed with the Beta.

That's the principle, not necessarily the reality. In some ways it's a Cap'n Save a Ho mentality written on a grand scale. The fallacy in this is that like attracts like. They fail to understand that opposites attract, and most women don't want to marry other women, least of all a carbon copy of herself.

Disqualification

When presented with a competitor of superior status, both sex's innate, subconscious reaction is to disqualify that competitor from breeding in as expedient a method as possible. For animals this usually involves some kind of courtship performance or outright hostility. And while the same could be said for human beings, our natural social impulse requires we take a bit more tact. "Look at that girl, she must be a slut to wear / act like that", or "Yeah, he's pretty good looking, but guys like that are usually gay" are the standard social weapons people use to disqualify their respective sex. Disqualify the competitor on the most base level - question their sexuality. Literally cast doubt on competitor's fitness to breed with potential mates.

While most men (Alpha or Beta) will make similar attempts to disqualify, the Beta's methodology ties back into his need for feminine identification in his disqualifying a competitor. Essentially he relies on feminine ways of disqualification by drawing upon his likeness to the women he hopes to emulate (thus furthering potential attraction as he thinks). The competitor may not be gay, but he must be cast as inferior to himself due to his competitor's inability (or lessened ability) to identify with his desired female.

With Alpha competitors, the field has already been plowed for him by feminine social conventions, all he need do is plant the seeds. The fact that the Alpha tends to embody the masculine opposite of what he's embraced also feeds this drive. Women aren't attracted to the macho tough guy, they want a man who's kind and thoughtful; a good listener. So the natural recourse is to amplify this disparity - he's a 1950's neanderthal throwback, he's "bitter", he's a misogynist, he's a child in a man's body with a fragile ego only interested in ƒucking women and moving on. He's unlike anything on women's collective stated list of prerequisites for an acceptable male. He must be ridiculed - as all women ridicule - for his selfish hyper-masculinity.

Furthermore, the Beta needs to make the Alpha seem common, while making himself seem unique. In order to effectively AMOG an Alpha, the Beta has to show his empathy for the feminine, and she must appreciate it or it's been all for nothing (which it usually is). Not only is this an ego preservation mechanism, but it's also perceived as a tool for achieving the desired sexual reciprocation / appreciation he desires.


Interpretation

All of this really just scratches the surface of how Beat game has evolved. I'm sure there'll be more input as to different methods that Betas use to facilitate breeding - sexual fetishes / preferences come to mind. I will add though that all of these methods come back to a common root; the need to breed under the duress of competition. Most of what I've gone into here, and primarily the feminine identity association, become ego-invested and internalized over the course of a lifetime. It gets to the point that under the auspices of relative anonymity (like the internet) that the Beta will still cling to his mental model, even in the face of very rational, empirical evidence to the contrary, for no other reason than that a woman, a potential mate with whom he could identify, might read his post and become attracted to him. The Game is never dropped for him, even in light of proving his errors. Beta game is like the boy who decides to play on the girls team when a boys vs. girls kick ball game is started. He thinks it will endear himself to them, when all it really does is make him another girlfriend.
 

Ballie

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Originally posted by RT

"Yeah, he's pretty good looking, but guys like that are usually gay" are the standard social weapons people use to disqualify their respective sex
Thanks that is what I often get when other guys GFs look at me. Must be well up the DJ path to get that reaction :)
 

muscleman

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Rollo,

I thoroughly enjoy your posts (most of them), but this one has me confused. What exactly are you getting at here? This is borderline common knowledge, on this message board anyway. Alphas take what they want, betas take what they can get. Sometimes betas AMOG alphas - I'd say this is a product of chance more than skill though as it doesn't happen often enough to even be quantifiable. I hope you're not implying it's ok to be a beta. Granted we can't all be the best, but we should all strive for it.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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muscleman said:
I hope you're not implying it's ok to be a beta. Granted we can't all be the best, but we should all strive for it.
Of course not, my intent here is to shed a bit of light on the other side in the hopes that it wakes a few people up to the fact that everyone has some form of Game methodology - even Beta AFCs. At some point in a man's life he resorts to some form of Game. This Game may be a natural, unforced manifestation of his Alpha nature, or it may be a pinched, struggling squeak from a guy with no social intelligence whatsoever. My point in this essay was to show that for the most part it's feminized societal norms that feed a guy what should or should not be an "appropriate" way to seduce a woman. And in fact that's what Game boils down to, methods of seduction. Even the most submissive, supplicating, rank AFC Beta has an idea of what he thinks will be effective at seducing his target.

This comes on the heels of a few posts on some threads I went into regarding accusations of guys being "bitter" or "misogynists" for being critical of women or the feminine. Generally the Beta mindset see this not just as an attack on their conditioned sensibilities, but also as an opportunity to set themselves apart as unique, feminine-associative and identifying with potential female mates. Their Beta game is always ON, and feverishly looks for occasions to display it, even here.
 

Bible_Belt

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The tricky part is that sometimes beta game works, or at least appears to work. We see a beta guy get a girl, but fail to see that he doesn't really excite her, probably gets once-a-month pity sex, and is only going to be with her until she meets a new alpha male who turns her on.

I knew an attractive girl at law school, who had a beta male almost literally attach himself to her and then follow her around for the entire three years of school. They made out their class schedules together; I literally never saw one of them without the other. People would make jokes, referring to them as the single entity of 'wa-jen,' because the individual Wayne and Jennifer had ceased to exist. I think it took two and a half years of following her around for him to actually start having sex with her. They graduated last year and are now engaged.

Also, the girl I dated in law school just got engaged to a guy I can tell is very beta. Considering what I know about her and the things we did together, I am guessing she is making drastic physical sacrifices for the sake of security and stability. That is what beta males offer.

I hope both of these girls are happy. Somehow, I doubt it.
 

Sinistar

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I think you summed up the Beta's mindset and game perfectly. There is so much irony to the Beta approach and would really be funny if it wasn't such a waste of a man's most precious resource - time.

Here's the biggest irony (IMHO) - The Beta plays by all these rules and follows the socio/feminine conventions perfectly - only to end up with less than what he really "wants". This leads to hurt, stress, depression, etc. And where does he turn 99.9% of the time - to the very people, beliefs and conventions that got him there in the first place :( They respond with "maybe she was just meant to be your friend..." or "You just haven't found your soulmate yet..." or the absolute worse "If you wait for her she will eventually realize you're the right one for her...". Sounds a lot like religion.

How many of those guys wait? How many of us waited? How many will continue to believe that table scraps are the main meal?

The Beta game gets the guy the trophy first (her beside him) but not the prize (intimacy). We all know what the Beta does that night, all alone, after spending the day with her as a "friend". Maybe we should call that a Beta Relationship or Beta Love since it has all elements: time together, emotional investment, trust, security and he even gets off - albeit solo.

Then there are the "big" re-enforcers. Play the Beta game long enough pretty soon you're cuckolding some other guy's kids. The reward for all the waiting and frustration is "instant dad", "handyman" ... the list goes on. Even in this case, they have many of the elements of what they really wanted as a Man, but they came by it indirectly, minimizing rejection and avoiding the weights of leadership.

Re: Bitterness. Yep, some guys are playing to the Beta role, using the classic techniques to try and get the other guys to back off of what they perceive to be bitter, etc. But I think there are more than a few here who understand women, understand Beta vs Alpha and just plain perceive these guys as being "bitter". They then apply DJ logic - actually being bitter is a complete waste of a guy's time so they tell the other guy. For this group, the critic's goal is not to get him to stop saying bad things about women (they could care less), rather it's to get him to do something more positive with his own life w/r to women given his higher level of awareness regarding their programming. Example, if he knows so much about women and seems bitter, why not set aside the (perceived) bitterness and use his knowledge to spin quality plates, never get married, avoid the hassles of kids, troubled finances, etc. Also related, when someone continues to repeat a message over and over the first thing we often read is insecurity w/r to that topic. Once again, look at religion. Some groups really push their message. Is it really to save everyone? I actually think it is because if no one were to listen it might mean what they believe in is actually irrelevant - that can really spook people - enough to try and sell it and rely on it even more. Very much like the Beta game!

I know a snake will bite anyone who gets too close, especially if it has happened to me. If that motivates me to run around telling everyone that snakes hide in holes, snakes are really sneaky and will bite if you get too close - whatever. But if the tone and frequency increases over time to the point I am being perceived as bitter towards snakes by more and more people - are the listeners saying I'm bitter because they are trying to protect snakes or because they see me wasting my time with a message that most people (especially on a forum about snakes) already know quite well.

If the last part of this post derails the Beta Game discussion feel free to move it to a new thread topic as it wasn't meant to divert the discussion. Rather I just wanted to point out that sometimes (maybe more often that it would appear) we can go overboard throwing "Beta" back at guys based on their (seemingly common) responses challenging Alpha messages. Disclaimer: Not implying absolutist, binary, b&w etc.
 

mikeraw

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Not that I was ever a big poster, but I was always a constant reader of this forum... Lately, however, I've been visiting SoSuave less and less in favor of blogs that I've discovered recently. I never thought much of it except that it was a natural transition, especially when I see more and more lost souls joining SS and kids bringing the quality of this site down.

It's threads like this that pump fresh blood into SoSuave. It's sort of like The Dude's rug in that it ties everything together. This Lebowski analogy is the highest compliment I've ever payed anyone on this forum.
 

Unbridled_Phoenix

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The LEBOWSKI Analogy...

RT, be sure you are casual when you mention it in your next psychology journal. The Freudians will be all over it!
 

Zunder

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Bible_Belt said:
The tricky part is that sometimes beta game works, or at least appears to work. We see a beta guy get a girl, but fail to see that he doesn't really excite her, probably gets once-a-month pity sex, and is only going to be with her until she meets a new alpha male who turns her on.

I knew an attractive girl at law school, who had a beta male almost literally attach himself to her and then follow her around for the entire three years of school. They made out their class schedules together; I literally never saw one of them without the other. People would make jokes, referring to them as the single entity of 'wa-jen,' because the individual Wayne and Jennifer had ceased to exist. I think it took two and a half years of following her around for him to actually start having sex with her. They graduated last year and are now engaged.

Also, the girl I dated in law school just got engaged to a guy I can tell is very beta. Considering what I know about her and the things we did together, I am guessing she is making drastic physical sacrifices for the sake of security and stability. That is what beta males offer.

I hope both of these girls are happy. Somehow, I doubt it.
I see tons of betas with reasonable looking chicks. Then one day the chicks will realise they married or are in an ltr with their "girlfirend" - and they break it off.

Statsitics back this up.......what is it, 70% of females initiate divorce.

Still, I get bemused as **** at parties when I see good looking chicks with "Herberts". I want to scream out loud "What the **** are you doing with that lamehead".
 

Tazman

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This is the sort of stuff you learn from. It's becoming more rare on this site.
 

Sinistar

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Zunder said:
Still, I get bemused as **** at parties when I see good looking chicks with "Herberts". I want to scream out loud "What the **** are you doing with that lamehead".
You know, we've all heard the "she could do better than him..." statement countless times before and rarely give it a second thought. Why do we actually say it - maybe to CB the guy? Are there certain types of guys that say this more often (Alpha or...Beta)? Is it a rationalization / justification for them being in a situation we want to be in? Why does it even matter to as DJ who knows there are lots of women, is it a way to play rescuer / savior?
 

Colossus

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I used to be a Beta.

It was reinforced by all of my family and most of my friends. After years of learning I can say that I'm an alpha---not in the swinging d!ck, loud guy at the bar sense---but in the way I deal with women. I don't go to people with my "girl problems" anymore, because I know how to deal with them. If people question my actions or philosophy, I have an answer. Occasionally I will ask my father or a wise friend about a certain situation. But even still, my father gives me Beta advice on some topics. For instance, the other day he mentioned my sister and I could get him a Barefoot Contessa cookbook for Christmas. I replied that as a man I could not buy him that in good conscience. His reply was the predictable "well just an FYI but women really like a man who can cook". Alright dad.

It always goes back to what WOMEN want with Betas. Women love it when you do this for them, women love it when you do that. Always conforming to the perceived image of their ideal in hopes of acceptance and sex. Betas CARE too much!!! They care way too much about what women think, what they want, and what they expect. Then they make this magical "one" monogamy the zenith of life. As if finding this "one" will eclipse all other events and achievements. They are almost making women more than human with this mindset. It's a pvssy way to live.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Zunder said:
I see tons of betas with reasonable looking chicks. Then one day the chicks will realise they married or are in an ltr with their "girlfirend" - and they break it off.
DonS said:
The old saying women are attracted to confidence really means she is attracted to the behaviors of a male that are consistant with the behaviors that the winner's mind will adopt. This is what PUA game is; the beta adaptation to mimic high status indicators. Mimicry is a common survival tool in nature; the ash borer looks exactly like a stinging wasp; or harmless snakes that use their throat to mimic the rattles of a rattlesnake. Beta game is nothing more than deception and mimicry in an attempt to poach some pussie.

But women have also adapted and use sh!t tests to see if these behaviors are scripted, or if they are real by checking for congruency across a number of artificially created and unstable situations, or "crisis." Because in a panic, most humans revert to, and expose their core behaviors.

The problem is that the 2% of betas that best master beta game will only be offered unpredictable and fleeting chances at pussie. But developing congruent dominance will trigger the masses of women to compete for you.
Everyone has a Game in some respect. We don't live in a vacuum, our ideas about seduction (in whatever form) is influenced and / or learned externally. The validity of that Game may be more or less effective, but at some point a man is going to adapt to a methodology of seduction as per his conditions and environment warrant. Even mPUAs still need to adapt their Game for differing environments - different clubs, types of women, socio-economic levels, countries, etc. - there needs to be adaptation and improvisation. The same applies for Betas, but the disparity is that the Beta tends to think of a one size fits all approach. He adopts a script and is less likely to variate.

This is why you almost exclusively see fetishes and a wider variety of sexual 'preferences' on the part of males. Betas tend to stick with what worked for them, what was reinforced for them, in the past. When his Beta Game is unsuccessful with exceptionally attractive young women, and IS successful with chubby women, single mothers or women in their 30s-40s he develops a "preference" for fat women, single mommies or MILF / Cougars. Not only does this accomplish his breeding imperative, but it also validates his Beta Game. This "preference" then creates a feedback loop that reinforces his seduction methods.
 

Sinistar

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Colossus said:
It always goes back to what WOMEN want with Betas. Women love it when you do this for them, women love it when you do that.
Here's something to think about: Is it that women really want you to "do this and that for them" - or is it that they just want to know "you would do this or that for them." I know the difference seems almost trivial but in reality these are two considerably different expectations.

If I think back to every woman I've gotten to know beyond just friends, I think they all really just wanted to know that me (or any other guy) had it in him to do those things but they never really wanted most of them done. Actually receiving all those gifts and attention would be to much pressure, too confining, too overwhelming.

But what does the Beta do, just exactly as RT wrote; he listens directly to what he's hearing women saying and applies it (using good ole' fashioned male logic after all) thinking if I do the X they're requesting the result will be the Y they are rewarding. But if backfires. Why?

I would suggest that as important Security is to women, often implicit / indirect security (ie trust, patience, confidence, aloofness, c0ckiness) is far more valuable (rev's their emotional engines in better ways) than directly providing security (always in contact, giving gifts, giving compliments, etc). But we all know this after being here for awhile.

The point is that what women really want is embedded in their own message "I want [to know] a guy who will do this and that for me." We're just unaware that the emphasized part of it is not actually being said for a host of reasons; they use a indirect/covert language, perhaps the emotions associated with the message cause them to mute this part and also the media has jumped on this message and it wouldn't be as dramatic and convincing if the "to know" part was left in.
 

Trader

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Rollo - very interesting insight on how betas actually spin game too - their version of game

Looking back to my AFC days - I remember ecting exactly the way you mentioned - and I was completely oblivious to the fact that I was trying to 'spin game'
 

synergy1

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Betas tend to stick with what worked for them, what was reinforced for them, in the past. When his Beta Game is unsuccessful with exceptionally attractive young women, and IS successful with chubby women, single mothers or women in their 30s-40s he develops a "preference" for fat women, single mommies or MILF / Cougars. Not only does this accomplish his breeding imperative, but it also validates his Beta Game. This "preference" then creates a feedback loop that reinforces his seduction methods.
I have a friend who uses exclusively online dating to get his girls. To his credit, he is not really an AFC and gets laid using this method, but according to him, he is seldom impressed with his choices. The issue is that its always worked for him, so he has had to 'settle' on these types, and has made no effort to really go after girls in a normal setting. The beta game kicks in when he says he can't/ won't get girls in a normal setting despite the fact he clearly could.
 

Colossus

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synergy1 said:
I have a friend who uses exclusively online dating to get his girls. To his credit, he is not really an AFC and gets laid using this method, but according to him, he is seldom impressed with his choices. The issue is that its always worked for him, so he has had to 'settle' on these types, and has made no effort to really go after girls in a normal setting. The beta game kicks in when he says he can't/ won't get girls in a normal setting despite the fact he clearly could.

That's exactly why I think online dating is a good tool for some, but it can easily become a crutch. Consequently your friend probably has severely atrophied pick-up skills and uses the explanation that he "cant" or doesn't like to meet girls out and about. I've fallen into this before. For some of the more introverted guys approach game is a big weakness, so they turn to more indirect methods.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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And building straw men is the first indication of the lack of a valid counterpoint.

I could be Charles Manson all the same, did you have something to add to the idea, or were you just making an attempt to marginalize it?
 

reset

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Rollo Tomassi said:
When his Beta Game is unsuccessful with exceptionally attractive young women, and IS successful with chubby women, single mothers or women in their 30s-40s he develops a "preference" for fat women, single mommies or MILF / Cougars. Not only does this accomplish his breeding imperative, but it also validates his Beta Game. This "preference" then creates a feedback loop that reinforces his seduction methods.
Not only that, but if you try to explain to a guy like that that it is possible for him to have more attractive women in his life if he would just do some inner work, he can violently oppose you and demand that until he makes a million dollars those women are off limits. Who the hell would be into milfs/cougars? That makes no sense. Guys like young, hot women. Older women CAN be pretty hot themselves, but that is usually the exception rather than rule. And how could a guy be naturally attracted to obese women? "I like a girl who's a bit thick". Thick as in rolls of fat and stretch-marks?

Of course, you'll hear that a man's preferences for young, attractive women is just societal conditioning... "they loved fat women back in the 1700s" etc. I'm sure that's part of it... consider yourself she's hot, and not only do you get intimacy, but you also get to consider yourself "unsuperficial" too. Way better than those dudes who will settle for a young hot "bimbo". And I agree, these are the exact same phrases/shaming techniques women use when shaming an Alpha for not finding her attractive or giving her enough attention. And yes, even online, they will do the "not like other guys thing" in the hopes some girl online might pick up on that and want to be his girlfriend... any girl will do. Just make it female.

Interesting stuff Rollo.
 
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