Best time to settle down - a question inspired by The Rational Male

[rber]

Hi, this question was initially written for Rollo Tomassi after reading his book The Rational Male, but I'm going to try my luck here in an open forum as well.

I read the book the Rational Male and moved on to the next in the series - Preventive Medicine. Great stuff.
The books raised a question - I tried to cover everything that's relevant for you to get the full picture while keeping it as concise as I can.

I'm a 27 years old entrepreneur.
4 years ago I found out about game and pickup - I went through an intensive year of pickup while consuming RSD material.
I had major mind shifts, personality growth and experiences with women which I wouldn't have had otherwise.
Following a recent breakup, a friend recommended me The Rational Male - it's one of the better books out there, it gave me great insights.

According to the advice in The Rational Male, I should be waiting until my mid 30s to settle down in order for the SMV scale to tip in my favor.
In my mid 30s I should be much better positioned in the SMP, more so in my case since I'm a full-time entrepreneur who didn't quite make it yet.
It always seemed absurd to me, chasing girls who have an inflated and irrational sense of their own SMV, while in comparison my own SMV seems to be irrationally low at the moment - in my own opinion (which doesn't really count for anything) it should be extremely high, much more so when looking at my future goals and personal development over time.
Unfortunately I'm not the one who makes the SMV rules, and I get zero SMV credit for things that in my opinion should be worth a lot, man do I bring a lot to the table even at this point in my life. Not that it matters from a realistic SMP point of view.
I'm set on getting a girl who can provide the whole package (smart, beautiful, good character, feminine, etc), and at my current SMV it seems nearly impossible to get one, let alone maintain and settle down with one - barring dedicating my life to meeting girls and improving my game, which I don't intend to do because ultimately I have things that I deem more important to do with my time.
I'm also a fan of "build it and they will come", at the very least I find the idea appealing - focusing on building oneself and attracting instead of chasing - it seems like a better strategy to keep improving and having more to offer rather than just wasting time on chasing and possibly decaying.
I still maintain my relationship as a goal mentality, be it feminine conditioning or not, having a warm loving family just seems far more appealing to me than the alternatives. I'm not too excited though about the chances of actually achieving that and all of it not going down the drain somewhere down the road due to hypergamy or anything of the sort.

With that said, assuming things go right for me and in my mid 30s I have an extremely high SMV while the women around my age are in the epiphany phase and it's time to strike -
Wouldn't by then women my age be too old to start giving birth to children? Even if I'm 35, settling down with a 30 year old woman and expecting her to bear 4 children doesn't sound like a foolproof plan to me. Not to mention that it's far from guaranteed that I'll be lucky enough to find the right woman by the time I'm ready to settle down - so the ages we're talking about might be even greater.
If I go the other direction and try to settle down with a girl at the peak of her SMV (assuming that's even feasible) - she'll just be a little kid. Even now when talking to women at these ages I can hardly find anything interesting about them other than their looks, the majority of women don't bring a lot to the table at these ages (especially not the good looking ones), and looks alone just don't cut it.

It'd be great to hear what's your take on this. Feel free to burst my bubble and hurt my ego, keep it real.

 

[Epicwinguy]

Never

 

[AttackFormation]

In the end you won't come face to face with any one woman... like all men, you'll face your own ego which will ask two questions.

1. How much does your self-esteem depend on my (your ego's) appraisal of "your" woman's history and "purity", as opposed to who you are and who she is with you?
2. How much will you base your life on what feeds my infinite appetite and how much on what makes you happy?

I don't have the age and experience to answer the choice of settling now or later but I think those questions will still help you. Only you can really answer what you want anyway. Me, if I found a decent woman who aroused me and was on a similar wavelength to me so we actually suited each other, I'd prepare for the risks and swap the chase/thirst game out for relationship game in a heartbeat (although it wouldn't appear that way to her). Dunno about you but I've got things I'd rather put my time and ambition on that are both more interesting and fulfilling than chasing pvssy is.

 

[samspade]

I haven't read any Rollo in a long while, but I remember and agree with his ideas about waiting until your 30s. That doesn't mean you HAVE to do it only in your thirties, though. He is cautioning men in their 20s to be patient, develop themselves, and gain experience, which is the best teacher. Mileage may vary. You don't have to be on anyone's clock but your own. I'm 42, and recently got out of a LTR with a girl 17 years younger. She wanted to have my kids. I still wasn't ready (at least not with her). Since you're an entrepreneur, I recommend waiting until you feel comfortable in terms of resources - i.e., when you'll be ready financially to raise kids and therefore settle down.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Hi, this question was initially written for Rollo Tomassi after reading his book The Rational Male, but I'm going to try my luck here in an open forum as well.

I read the book the Rational Male and moved on to the next in the series - Preventive Medicine. Great stuff.
The books raised a question - I tried to cover everything that's relevant for you to get the full picture while keeping it as concise as I can.

I'm a 27 years old entrepreneur.
4 years ago I found out about game and pickup - I went through an intensive year of pickup while consuming RSD material.
I had major mind shifts, personality growth and experiences with women which I wouldn't have had otherwise.
Following a recent breakup, a friend recommended me The Rational Male - it's one of the better books out there, it gave me great insights.

According to the advice in The Rational Male, I should be waiting until my mid 30s to settle down in order for the SMV scale to tip in my favor.
In my mid 30s I should be much better positioned in the SMP, more so in my case since I'm a full-time entrepreneur who didn't quite make it yet.
It always seemed absurd to me, chasing girls who have an inflated and irrational sense of their own SMV, while in comparison my own SMV seems to be irrationally low at the moment - in my own opinion (which doesn't really count for anything) it should be extremely high, much more so when looking at my future goals and personal development over time.
Unfortunately I'm not the one who makes the SMV rules, and I get zero SMV credit for things that in my opinion should be worth a lot, man do I bring a lot to the table even at this point in my life. Not that it matters from a realistic SMP point of view.
I'm set on getting a girl who can provide the whole package (smart, beautiful, good character, feminine, etc), and at my current SMV it seems nearly impossible to get one, let alone maintain and settle down with one - barring dedicating my life to meeting girls and improving my game, which I don't intend to do because ultimately I have things that I deem more important to do with my time.
I'm also a fan of "build it and they will come", at the very least I find the idea appealing - focusing on building oneself and attracting instead of chasing - it seems like a better strategy to keep improving and having more to offer rather than just wasting time on chasing and possibly decaying.
I still maintain my relationship as a goal mentality, be it feminine conditioning or not, having a warm loving family just seems far more appealing to me than the alternatives. I'm not too excited though about the chances of actually achieving that and all of it not going down the drain somewhere down the road due to hypergamy or anything of the sort.

With that said, assuming things go right for me and in my mid 30s I have an extremely high SMV while the women around my age are in the epiphany phase and it's time to strike -
Wouldn't by then women my age be too old to start giving birth to children? Even if I'm 35, settling down with a 30 year old woman and expecting her to bear 4 children doesn't sound like a foolproof plan to me. Not to mention that it's far from guaranteed that I'll be lucky enough to find the right woman by the time I'm ready to settle down - so the ages we're talking about might be even greater.
If I go the other direction and try to settle down with a girl at the peak of her SMV (assuming that's even feasible) - she'll just be a little kid. Even now when talking to women at these ages I can hardly find anything interesting about them other than their looks, the majority of women don't bring a lot to the table at these ages (especially not the good looking ones), and looks alone just don't cut it.

It'd be great to hear what's your take on this. Feel free to burst my bubble and hurt my ego, keep it real.

There's this guy on Youtube called Coach Red Pill who recomm ends men get married in their 40s. He's 49 or 50 and married to a woman in her early 20s so he claims. Two toddlers. I personally plan to get married in my 30s when I should have more patience from age.

 

[R.U.G.]

Settle down? For what? What benefit does this provide to you? Love Rollo, but he does have a bit of tradcon instilled in him when he talks about marriage.

 

[Desdinova]

I'm a 27 years old entrepreneur.

You are currently too young to settle down. Spend your 20s building your life, spend your 30s dating and fvcking women while enjoying what you've built up for yourself. Spend your 40s with a companion, if that's what you ultimately desire.

According to the advice in The Rational Male, I should be waiting until my mid 30s to settle down in order for the SMV scale to tip in my favor.

I have never focused on all the math and theory over SMV. From my own observations, it all depends on how you carry yourself when out in public. If you appear to be confident, fun and exciting and have the ability to get yourself stuck on the mind of a woman, you don't have to worry about SMV.

I'm set on getting a girl who can provide the whole package (smart, beautiful, good character, feminine, etc), and at my current SMV it seems nearly impossible to get one, let alone maintain and settle down with one - barring dedicating my life to meeting girls and improving my game, which I don't intend to do because ultimately I have things that I deem more important to do with my time.

This is the fallacy of focusing on SMV; It blurs the reality of the situation. Having a higher SMV isn't going to attract better (or more "quality" women) because for the most part, they don't exist. Also, the older the women get, the less likely you're going to find a "quality" woman. From what I've seen, women are at their maturity peak by age 23. Most have also been alpha-widowed by this age and have bought their tickets to ride on the c0ck carousel for the rest of their lives. The ones who get off the carousel either become lesbians or adopt cats.

I'm also a fan of "build it and they will come", at the very least I find the idea appealing - focusing on building oneself and attracting instead of chasing - it seems like a better strategy to keep improving and having more to offer rather than just wasting time on chasing and possibly decaying.

I agree with this. However, just focusing on building your life isn't the magic ticket in getting the attention of women. You have to make your personality work in your favour. You have to be confident, fun, interesting, and social. If you have all those going for you, you'll be able to surround yourself with women. Once you hit that point, all you have to do is pick the ones you want to date.

With that said, assuming things go right for me and in my mid 30s I have an extremely high SMV while the women around my age are in the epiphany phase and it's time to strike -
Wouldn't by then women my age be too old to start giving birth to children? Even if I'm 35, settling down with a 30 year old woman and expecting her to bear 4 children doesn't sound like a foolproof plan to me.

A lot of men see an unwritten rule that you need to date women who are around the same age as yourself. This is ultimate crap, and the rule was written by single women in their 30s who in their minds haven't found Mr. Right yet.

Shopping for a woman for the long haul is like shopping for a car. The lower mileage on it and the newer it is, the better it's going to be. If you want a life-long companion, you should be looking at never-married and childless women who are younger than age 23 and have had sex with less than five men. This is a very small window of women, but they do exist. You must also find one who's never been alpha-widowed. Once they become alpha-widowed, they are essentially ruined and damaged unless you're the one who alpha-widowed them.

If you decide that I'm full of 5hit with regards to this, you're going to find yourself having many unsuccessful relationships with entitled garbage women who keep themselves surrounded by a circle of orbiters and ex-BFs. If you've spent any amount of time dating women who are older than 23, you'll start to see how similar they all are. Once you start dating women in that small window that I mentioned, you'll see a world of difference.

A lot of people 5hit on women who are under 23 as being "immature". What they always forget is that these "immature" women can grow out of that phase (unless they've already been alpha-widowed).

I'm 40 years old. My GF is 25. I met her five years ago and was the second guy to fvck her. I've never had a more loyal, respectful, dedicated GF in all the time I've been dating women. Most of the other successful couples I know are ones who met in high school. That small window is IMO your only hope when it comes to finding a good woman for keeps.

 

[AJ84]

You are currently too young to settle down. Spend your 20s building your life, spend your 30s dating and fvcking women while enjoying what you've built up for yourself. Spend your 40s with a companion, if that's what you ultimately desire.



I have never focused on all the math and theory over SMV. From my own observations, it all depends on how you carry yourself when out in public. If you appear to be confident, fun and exciting and have the ability to get yourself stuck on the mind of a woman, you don't have to worry about SMV.



This is the fallacy of focusing on SMV; It blurs the reality of the situation. Having a higher SMV isn't going to attract better (or more "quality" women) because for the most part, they don't exist. Also, the older the women get, the less likely you're going to find a "quality" woman. From what I've seen, women are at their maturity peak by age 23. Most have also been alpha-widowed by this age and have bought their tickets to ride on the c0ck carousel for the rest of their lives. The ones who get off the carousel either become lesbians or adopt cats.



I agree with this. However, just focusing on building your life isn't the magic ticket in getting the attention of women. You have to make your personality work in your favour. You have to be confident, fun, interesting, and social. If you have all those going for you, you'll be able to surround yourself with women. Once you hit that point, all you have to do is pick the ones you want to date.



A lot of men see an unwritten rule that you need to date women who are around the same age as yourself. This is ultimate crap, and the rule was written by single women in their 30s who in their minds haven't found Mr. Right yet.

Shopping for a woman for the long haul is like shopping for a car. The lower mileage on it and the newer it is, the better it's going to be. If you want a life-long companion, you should be looking at never-married and childless women who are younger than age 23 and have had sex with less than five men. This is a very small window of women, but they do exist. You must also find one who's never been alpha-widowed. Once they become alpha-widowed, they are essentially ruined and damaged unless you're the one who alpha-widowed them.

If you decide that I'm full of 5hit with regards to this, you're going to find yourself having many unsuccessful relationships with entitled garbage women who keep themselves surrounded by a circle of orbiters and ex-BFs. If you've spent any amount of time dating women who are older than 23, you'll start to see how similar they all are. Once you start dating women in that small window that I mentioned, you'll see a world of difference.

A lot of people 5hit on women who are under 23 as being "immature". What they always forget is that these "immature" women can grow out of that phase (unless they've already been alpha-widowed).

I'm 40 years old. My GF is 25. I met her five years ago and was the second guy to fvck her. I've never had a more loyal, respectful, dedicated GF in all the time I've been dating women. Most of the other successful couples I know are ones who met in high school. That small window is IMO your only hope when it comes to finding a good woman for keeps.

I see a lot of flack for younger women here too but I think it’s coming from guys meeting younger women in places like bars or on tinder, party girls type which yeah are going to have a certain vibe that may be more annoying than a woman their age who isn’t addicted to hook up party scene social medial love.

But there are younger women who are well grounded and not out sleeping around.

However, it’s not common to see a woman in her early 20s with a guy in his late 30s or early 40s in a LTR relationship.

You found someone who fits those ideals but you know that you’re the exception not the rule . Most woman younger than 23 are not interested in settling down with much older men. They marry men closer to their own age and that’s been a consistent trend for a very long time.

I think if men want to settle down with a woman who fits those ideals you described, they would have a better change of doing that if they are actually closer in age to them.

Like I said, your situation is different, you got that but how many of your male friends are living with much younger women?

I don’t think it’s realistic for men to assume that one they are in their late 30s, early 40s, and eastablished, that they can now attract a 22yr old to settle with. Its possible of course, but rare.

 

[AttackFormation]

Shopping for a woman for the long haul is like shopping for a car. The lower mileage on it and the newer it is, the better it's going to be. If you want a life-long companion, you should be looking at never-married and childless women who are younger than age 23 and have had sex with less than five men. This is a very small window of women, but they do exist. You must also find one who's never been alpha-widowed. Once they become alpha-widowed, they are essentially ruined and damaged unless you're the one who alpha-widowed them.

If you decide that I'm full of 5hit with regards to this, you're going to find yourself having many unsuccessful relationships with entitled garbage women who keep themselves surrounded by a circle of orbiters and ex-BFs. If you've spent any amount of time dating women who are older than 23, you'll start to see how similar they all are. Once you start dating women in that small window that I mentioned, you'll see a world of difference.

A lot of people 5hit on women who are under 23 as being "immature". What they always forget is that these "immature" women can grow out of that phase (unless they've already been alpha-widowed).

I'm 40 years old. My GF is 25. I met her five years ago and was the second guy to fvck her. I've never had a more loyal, respectful, dedicated GF in all the time I've been dating women. Most of the other successful couples I know are ones who met in high school. That small window is IMO your only hope when it comes to finding a good woman for keeps.

I think the advice to find a woman who isn't alpha widowed is well-meaning but in 2018, it's got to be time to drop it for one's own sake. If you stumble on it like you did, great, and you also have a large age disparity. But 99%+ of men who live in a western culture and ever want a girlfriend or a family will be happier with their lives if they drop the pipe dream of a woman with an "unspoiled" emotional mileage. With the culture and technology here, it's better for the vast majority of men's own sake to evolve their mindsets with the times. Yeah the risk of your relationship going sour and you and your childrens' lives being screwed over will be higher, but rhetorically speaking what can you do about that today (beyond legal preparations obviously)? Especially to tell men to wait until they are 40 to settle down with a much younger woman who is low mileage is not going to work on a societal scale, both because of the age discrepancy and because that means you'd have to live in celibacy until then because who are you going to fvck meanwhile if the girls are supposed to be low mileage?

The only sort of predictable exception would be in religious communities, which there are more of outside of the west. "Sort of" because you have to assume they aren't practicing their religion with their fingers crossed behind their backs like my ex-plate does.

 

[rber]

In the end you won't come face to face with any one woman... like all men, you'll face your own ego which will ask two questions.

1. How much does your self-esteem depend on my (your ego's) appraisal of "your" woman's history and "purity", as opposed to who you are and who she is with you?
2. How much will you base your life on what feeds my infinite appetite and how much on what makes you happy?

I don't have the age and experience to answer the choice of settling now or later but I think those questions will still help you. Only you can really answer what you want anyway. Me, if I found a decent woman who aroused me and was on a similar wavelength to me so we actually suited each other, I'd prepare for the risks and swap the chase/thirst game out for relationship game in a heartbeat (although it wouldn't appear that way to her). Dunno about you but I've got things I'd rather put my time and ambition on that are both more interesting and fulfilling than chasing pvssy is.

1. Frankly I couldn't care less about "purity" in itself, not from an ego point of view that is, as long as it doesn't damage her in any way.
I can definitely understand women wanting to captilize on their looks and attention as much as they can, I would've probably done the same in their place were I not a logic-driven male.
Imagine a fresh supply of pvssy to choose from every day, wouldn't you just grab one whenever you're horny?

2. A no brainer for me - what makes me happy. Feeding my infinite appetite isn't as fun and fulfilling as it appeared to be before I had my fair share of sex.

I'm with you on putting my time and ambition into more interesting and fulfilling things than chasing pvssy, especially since at my current place in life my time investment in them bears much better fruit.
However, I still maintain high standards for a lifelong partner, which will inevitably eventually require time investment, when I'm at a point in my life when that invested time will be worth more than it is worth now.

A decent woman which arouses you and is on a similar wavelength as you - sure these are basic requirements, but doesn't your ambition require the best deal you can get?

I haven't read any Rollo in a long while, but I remember and agree with his ideas about waiting until your 30s. That doesn't mean you HAVE to do it only in your thirties, though. He is cautioning men in their 20s to be patient, develop themselves, and gain experience, which is the best teacher. Mileage may vary. You don't have to be on anyone's clock but your own. I'm 42, and recently got out of a LTR with a girl 17 years younger. She wanted to have my kids. I still wasn't ready (at least not with her). Since you're an entrepreneur, I recommend waiting until you feel comfortable in terms of resources - i.e., when you'll be ready financially to raise kids and therefore settle down.

Yeah, I understand it's just a recommendation and the reason behind it.
I fully intend to wait until I'm comfortable in terms of resources, I'd just like to make sure that it wouldn't be too late by then, put plainly I'd like to avoid a strategic error.

Doesn't dating a woman with that age gap come with huge disadvantages? Sure, the sex is probably amazing compared to a woman closer to your age, but can you really connect to her on a deeper level?
It seems to me that by that age I would've been through so much, and it'd feel like spending time with a baby. She wouldn't have any worthwhile life experience, nor the wisdom that comes from it.
The age gap between my parents is 18 years. While the reason for the marriage going down the drain has nothing to do with hypergamy, there was an immense difference in wisdom and the place in life they were at, at any given point of their relationship.
I might be drawing the wrong conclusions since I'm basing them on a single anecdote, but it always seemed to me like a mistake to have such a big age gap with a long-term partner.

There's this guy on Youtube called Coach Red Pill who recomm ends men get married in their 40s. He's 49 or 50 and married to a woman in her early 20s so he claims. Two toddlers. I personally plan to get married in my 30s when I should have more patience from age.

Thanks for the reccomendation. I started watching his videos - seems interesting so far.

Settle down? For what? What benefit does this provide to you? Love Rollo, but he does have a bit of tradcon instilled in him when he talks about marriage.

What do I have to gain by settling down? Creating a (seemingly?) secure, warm and loving family.
Personally, I see marriage in itself as a bad deal for a guy, but I can't expect a socially conditioned woman who's been dreaming about it since she was a little kid to think the same, nor would it be realistic to try to "enlighten" every woman I date and contradict the most likely unanimous socially conditioned opinion of every single person in her life.
With that said, I think it is an unfortunate requirement that I just might have to comply to in order to have a conventional family.

 

[rber]

You are currently too young to settle down. Spend your 20s building your life, spend your 30s dating and fvcking women while enjoying what you've built up for yourself. Spend your 40s with a companion, if that's what you ultimately desire.

My 20s are definitely going to be spent building my life. Most likely I'm going to spend my whole life building my life, if that makes sense.
My ultimate desire is indeed to have a companion, but the ages you mentioned are exactly what brought up the concerns in my original post.

I have never focused on all the math and theory over SMV. From my own observations, it all depends on how you carry yourself when out in public. If you appear to be confident, fun and exciting and have the ability to get yourself stuck on the mind of a woman, you don't have to worry about SMV.

I understand that the math behind the SMV is purely a general guideline, but I'm not sure if it can be dismissed that easily.
I think it's a matter of what you can offer versus what girls are looking for at different phases in their life.
I believe that I do exhibit these traits to a certain degree (there's always room for improvement though).
I'd like to believe that a girl after her party years is far more attracted to those qualities than she is during her party years, simply because what she's looking for has changed.

This is the fallacy of focusing on SMV; It blurs the reality of the situation. Having a higher SMV isn't going to attract better (or more "quality" women) because for the most part, they don't exist. Also, the older the women get, the less likely you're going to find a "quality" woman. From what I've seen, women are at their maturity peak by age 23. Most have also been alpha-widowed by this age and have bought their tickets to ride on the c0ck carousel for the rest of their lives. The ones who get off the carousel either become lesbians or adopt cats.

What do you mean by "quality" women don't exist? I understand the reluctance to use the term "quality" so as not to paint the wrong image, but you can definitely objectively "measure" traits that are considered to be quality traits - intelligence, wisdom, beauty, personality, femininity, etc.
Why am I less likely to find a "quality" woman in older ages? Is it because at that point the "quality" ones are either taken or damaged goods?
This is exactly the point I'd like to focus on - my chances of finding a "quality" companion at different phases of her life and my life.

Define maturity peak. From what I've seen, most (good looking) women at that age are attention seeking robots that don't bring much to the table other than their good looks and their sense of entitlement. That is of course a wide generalization that is subjectively derived from my own personal experiences, but it does seem to be the rule so far, so my hope might be to find the exceptions to that rule.

I agree with this. However, just focusing on building your life isn't the magic ticket in getting the attention of women. You have to make your personality work in your favour. You have to be confident, fun, interesting, and social. If you have all those going for you, you'll be able to surround yourself with women. Once you hit that point, all you have to do is pick the ones you want to date.

I completely agree. Building my life and my personality go hand in hand. I don't expect financial success in itself to be enough.

A lot of men see an unwritten rule that you need to date women who are around the same age as yourself. This is ultimate crap, and the rule was written by single women in their 30s who in their minds haven't found Mr. Right yet.

I couldn't care less about any such unwritten rule, but rather I care about the objective consequences having such a big age difference.

Shopping for a woman for the long haul is like shopping for a car. The lower mileage on it and the newer it is, the better it's going to be. If you want a life-long companion, you should be looking at never-married and childless women who are younger than age 23 and have had sex with less than five men. This is a very small window of women, but they do exist. You must also find one who's never been alpha-widowed. Once they become alpha-widowed, they are essentially ruined and damaged unless you're the one who alpha-widowed them.

That is a point I'd like to understand. Why is a lower mileage better? From your experience and understanding, does mileage truly damage the goods? How and why?

Alpha widow is an interesting concept, does it truly end the game for a woman? Does she keep looking for the same alpha traits in any male she comes across and becomes disappointed and uninterested if they do not exhibit one or more of these traits?

Is an alpha widow likely to be satisfied and fulfilled with a different alpha? Or a beta that at that at the very least exhibits some alpha traits?

If you decide that I'm full of 5hit with regards to this, you're going to find yourself having many unsuccessful relationships with entitled garbage women who keep themselves surrounded by a circle of orbiters and ex-BFs. If you've spent any amount of time dating women who are older than 23, you'll start to see how similar they all are. Once you start dating women in that small window that I mentioned, you'll see a world of difference.

I don't think you are full of 5hit, I'm sure your own experience backs up what you say in a way.

Surprisingly I think I ONLY dated women who are older than 23, though naturally not as many as you have.
True, they do have a sense of entitlement and are surrounded by a circle of orbiters. I wouldn't be quick to call them garbage though.
The thing that worries me the most is the lack of maturity that goes with that small age, I have yet to see with my own eyes any cases that suggest otherwise.

From what I understand, the reality should be different for women after their party years, especially after the age of 30. Does your statement refer to those as well?

A lot of people 5hit on women who are under 23 as being "immature". What they always forget is that these "immature" women can grow out of that phase (unless they've already been alpha-widowed).

At what point do they grow out of that phase? Is the gap in mentality, personality, wisdom and experience ever bridged to a satisfactory point?

I'm soon 27, and even at that age I feel the gap between me and a 23 years old is big. I can only imagine it'll keep growing as I age.
That is not to flatter myself but rather to make an objective statement. It is entirely possible that I have yet to be with the right women.
I happened to date very intelligent women, I can't say intelligence in itself gives me a hard on, but I was always attracted (not sexually) to intelligent people.
Regardless of intelligence, it seems their lack of wisdom and life experience, and their very own programmed nature keeps pulling them back to doing and saying things that can't be described as intelligent, where I could definitely expect the same women to have better judgement as they get older.

I'm 40 years old. My GF is 25. I met her five years ago and was the second guy to fvck her. I've never had a more loyal, respectful, dedicated GF in all the time I've been dating women. Most of the other successful couples I know are ones who met in high school. That small window is IMO your only hope when it comes to finding a good woman for keeps.

I can definitely see that. Do you think that's the rule or an exception to the rule? Aren't girls at that age more party oriented?
Do you not feel the age gap? What're its disadvantages in your eyes and how do you deal with them?

 

[AJ84]

I think the advice to find a woman who isn't alpha widowed is well-meaning but in 2018, it's got to be time to drop it for one's own sake. If you stumble on it like you did, great, and you also have a large age disparity. But 99%+ of men who live in a western culture and ever want a girlfriend or a family will be happier with their lives if they drop the pipe dream of a woman with an "unspoiled" emotional mileage. With the culture and technology here, it's better for the vast majority of men's own sake to evolve their mindsets with the times. Yeah the risk of your relationship going sour and you and your childrens' lives being screwed over will be higher, but rhetorically speaking what can you do about that today (beyond legal preparations obviously)? Especially to tell men to wait until they are 40 to settle down with a much younger woman who is low mileage is not going to work on a societal scale, both because of the age discrepancy and because that means you'd have to live in celibacy until then because who are you going to fvck meanwhile if the girls are supposed to be low mileage?

The only sort of predictable exception would be in religious communities, which there are more of outside of the west. "Sort of" because you have to assume they aren't practicing their religion with their fingers crossed behind their backs like my ex-plate does.

And in those religious communities, he would be expected to practice the faith as well. I’ve read advice where it’s suggeted that if men want a wholesome untouched young woman to go to church to find her. Well, these girls aren’t going to want to settle with a 35yr old man who spent his youth spinning plates and pumping and dumping across the country, living a life of what they would see as sin.

 

[rber]

I see a lot of flack for younger women here too but I think it’s coming from guys meeting younger women in places like bars or on tinder, party girls type which yeah are going to have a certain vibe that may be more annoying than a woman their age who isn’t addicted to hook up party scene social medial love.

But there are younger women who are well grounded and not out sleeping around.

However, it’s not common to see a woman in her early 20s with a guy in his late 30s or early 40s in a LTR relationship.

You found someone who fits those ideals but you know that you’re the exception not the rule . Most woman younger than 23 are not interested in settling down with much older men. They marry men closer to their own age and that’s been a consistent trend for a very long time.

I think if men want to settle down with a woman who fits those ideals you described, they would have a better change of doing that if they are actually closer in age to them.

Like I said, your situation is different, you got that but how many of your male friends are living with much younger women?

I don’t think it’s realistic for men to assume that one they are in their late 30s, early 40s, and eastablished, that they can now attract a 22yr old to settle with. Its possible of course, but rare.

It's interesting to hear conflicting opinions, it puts things into perspective.

For a 35 years old man, would you say it'd be ideal to settle down with a woman between the ages 30-35?
Wouldn't biology get in the way of creating a family? (giving birth gets harder and has less chances of success as a woman grows older)
Do you think it'd be wise to plan to settle down at 35 or am I missing some obvious disadvantages in not looking to settle down earlier in life?

Where do you find these young women who are well grounded and not out sleeping around? Do some of them happen to be good looking?

I think the advice to find a woman who isn't alpha widowed is well-meaning but in 2018, it's got to be time to drop it for one's own sake. If you stumble on it like you did, great, and you also have a large age disparity. But 99%+ of men who live in a western culture and ever want a girlfriend or a family will be happier with their lives if they drop the pipe dream of a woman with an "unspoiled" emotional mileage. With the culture and technology here, it's better for the vast majority of men's own sake to evolve their mindsets with the times. Yeah the risk of your relationship going sour and you and your childrens' lives being screwed over will be higher, but rhetorically speaking what can you do about that today (beyond legal preparations obviously)? Especially to tell men to wait until they are 40 to settle down with a much younger woman who is low mileage is not going to work on a societal scale, both because of the age discrepancy and because that means you'd have to live in celibacy until then because who are you going to fvck meanwhile if the girls are supposed to be low mileage?

The only sort of predictable exception would be in religious communities, which there are more of outside of the west. "Sort of" because you have to assume they aren't practicing their religion with their fingers crossed behind their backs like my ex-plate does.

I agree that in our times it seems to be more realistic to include alpha widows in your search, otherwise your options would drop drastically, and I'm not sure I'm convinced of the justification for that.

Well technically you could spend your 20s and 30s fvcking women who's mileage is already lost, those with low mileage aren't likely to give up on that mileage due to you trying to fvck them.
In other words, it doesn't have to be contradicting that you could both fvck some women and later on settle down with a low mileage woman.
That is not to say whether that's a good advice or not, I'm currently trying to figure that out myself.

 

[AttackFormation]

A decent woman which arouses you and is on a similar wavelength as you - sure these are basic requirements, but doesn't your ambition require the best deal you can get?

If you like her enough to be with her when you're not having or leading up to sex, your gut isn't trying to warn you about her (that's the big one that guys will ignore and hope for the best), her looks satisfy whatever your taste is and she's a decent person, that effectively is the best deal you can get. What more do you want?

... it doesn't have to be contradicting that you could both fvck some women and later on settle down with a low mileage woman ...

This delusion is already what we've been peddled with, the idea that "it's not gonna be me" and that your special sweetheart won't be like that. These delusions don't just contradict reality, they screw with guys' expectations of the world. This is why women lie to men about it, to massage their egos, the weak point of any man. The fact is that women have many more, easier, and relatively hotter options for sex than men do. They will have more sex with more partners than you. And the more she fits what I'm guessing you're looking for (someone at least mildly attractive to you who likes sex), the more sex and emotional mileage she'll have.

In an alternate reality where there's a birth rate excess of women instead of men, and the excess women worked as prostitutes which all the men took turns fvcking until it was time to settle down with the rest of the women who had been waiting for you in particular, then sure you could have that delusion. But we, that is most men, live in another reality than that.

 

[rber]

If you like her enough to be with her when you're not having or leading up to sex, your gut isn't trying to warn you about her (that's the big one that guys will ignore and hope for the best), her looks satisfy whatever your taste is and she's a decent person, that effectively is the best deal you can get. What more do you want?

I believe it's possible to settle down on looks and on a personality that are enough to get you going, without them being the best deal you can get.

For instance, it's possible to have a real connection with a nice 7-8 that is your taste, but why not try to reach for a 9-10 with an even better personality and an all around better added-value? Does it make sense?

Of course, I don't imply endlessly chasing the best option and keep trading options for a better ones, this has to be grounded in reality and there has to be a line where you're truly satisfied with what you get, that line is of course entirely individual.
It's possible to draw that line too low due to scarcity and other life circumstances, while rationalizing that you're truly content and that you got what you wanted, even though you're not really satisfied and fulfilled.

I have dated women that were good looking, exhibited good traits and with which I've had a real connection.
Despite that I wouldn't have been willing to settle down with any of them, since from different aspects they were below the line I chose to draw.

In short, I don't think that the requirements for a woman you're willing to be with, are necessarily the same requirements for a woman you'd be willing to settle down with.

Sounds a bit like male hypergamy doesn't it?

This delusion is already what we've been peddled with, the idea that "it's not gonna be me" and that your special sweetheart won't be like that. These delusions don't just contradict reality, they screw with guys' expectations of the world. This is why women lie to men about it, to massage their egos, the weak point of any man. The fact is that women have many more, easier, and relatively hotter options for sex than men do. They will have more sex with more partners than you. And the more she fits what I'm guessing you're looking for (someone at least mildly attractive to you who likes sex), the more sex and emotional mileage she'll have.

In an alternate reality where there's a birth rate excess of women instead of men, and the excess women worked as prostitutes which all the men took turns fvcking until it was time to settle down with the rest of the women who had been waiting for you in particular, then sure you could have that delusion. But we, that is most men, live in another reality than that.

Fair enough, but from what I understood from Desdinova the whole point of low mileage is to lock down a woman before she even had time to capitalize on her abundance of options. Not to look for your special sweetheart who by age 30 maintained a low mileage, because in this case I agree that it's either a delusion or otherwise she's most likely seriously fvcked up.

Like I stated in a different reply, I don't really have any problem with mileage in itself, other than it possibly damaging the woman in some other ways which I might have a problem with (from what I understand from other's replies so far).

 

[samspade]

Doesn't dating a woman with that age gap come with huge disadvantages? Sure, the sex is probably amazing compared to a woman closer to your age, but can you really connect to her on a deeper level?
It seems to me that by that age I would've been through so much, and it'd feel like spending time with a baby. She wouldn't have any worthwhile life experience, nor the wisdom that comes from it.
The age gap between my parents is 18 years. While the reason for the marriage going down the drain has nothing to do with hypergamy, there was an immense difference in wisdom and the place in life they were at, at any given point of their relationship.
I might be drawing the wrong conclusions since I'm basing them on a single anecdote, but it always seemed to me like a mistake to have such a big age gap with a long-term partner.

That's valid and can be a pitfall. There was an experience gap. But then, I had another ex who was two years older than I was, and there was an experience gap between the two of us as well. Different experiences. And I can say that my younger ex had experiences that I hadn't. However, we broke up for much different reasons than experience.

 

[rber]

That's valid and can be a pitfall. There was an experience gap. But then, I had another ex who was two years older than I was, and there was an experience gap between the two of us as well. Different experiences. And I can say that my younger ex had experiences that I hadn't. However, we broke up for much different reasons than experience.

It's definitely possible that your younger ex had experiences that you didn't, but can you really say those experiences could compare to yours and that her wisdom is on the same level as yours or even on the same level of the experiences of the older woman you were dating?

Were you able to connect with your younger ex on a deep level? Have meaningful conversations with her? Did you feel like you're hanging out with a person that you could see as an equal?

I wonder, if it's not too personal, what were the reasons for your breakup?

 

[AJ84]

It's interesting to hear conflicting opinions, it puts things into perspective.

For a 35 years old man, would you say it'd be ideal to settle down with a woman between the ages 30-35?
Wouldn't biology get in the way of creating a family? (giving birth gets harder and has less chances of success as a woman grows older)
Do you think it'd be wise to plan to settle down at 35 or am I missing some obvious disadvantages in not looking to settle down earlier in life?

Where do you find these young women who are well grounded and not out sleeping around? Do some of them happen to be good looking?




I agree that in our times it seems to be more realistic to include alpha widows in your search, otherwise your options would drop drastically, and I'm not sure I'm convinced of the justification for that.

Well technically you could spend your 20s and 30s fvcking women who's mileage is already lost, those with low mileage aren't likely to give up on that mileage due to you trying to fvck them.
In other words, it doesn't have to be contradicting that you could both fvck some women and later on settle down with a low mileage woman.
That is not to say whether that's a good advice or not, I'm currently trying to figure that out myself.

There’s a lot to consider when choosing a woman to settle down with. Age for sure due to the limited time we can have children, but it has to be more than that. It also has to be more than a woman with low mileage:
You’re not just choosing a fertile woman with low mileage to share your life with. You are choosing another human to share your life with. Being fertile, and having low mileage doesn’t mean she has the attributes, personality and values that you want in order to not regret being with her.
A young woman could have low mileage but be bat sh*t crazy lol.
So at 35 for you, considering her fertility yes I would say younger, mid to late 20s. But that’s just one attribute you would be looking for in a partner. The older you get, the harder it will be to find someone in that age group who wants to settle down with you. At 35 there’s a decent chance you can settle with a 25yr old. Every year you get older, the changes of settling with a 25yr old will be slimmer and the chances of her being older will be larger. Kind of look at it that way. After 30 fertility does decline in women who don’t already have children but the real decline is usually after 35.

And of course, despite everything, there are never any garuantees that it will work out. That’s the unfortunate rub:/

 

[rber]

There’s a lot to consider when choosing a woman to settle down with. Age for sure due to the limited time we can have children, but it has to be more than that. It also has to be more than a woman with low mileage:
You’re not just choosing a fertile woman with low mileage to share your life with. You are choosing another human to share your life with. Being fertile, and having low mileage doesn’t mean she has the attributes, personality and values that you want in order to not regret being with her.
A young woman could have low mileage but be bat sh*t crazy lol.
So at 35 for you, considering her fertility yes I would say younger, mid to late 20s. But that’s just one attribute you would be looking for in a partner. The older you get, the harder it will be to find someone in that age group who wants to settle down with you. At 35 there’s a decent chance you can settle with a 25yr old. Every year you get older, the changes of settling with a 25yr old will be slimmer and the chances of her being older will be larger. Kind of look at it that way. After 30 fertility does decline in women who don’t already have children but the real decline is usually after 35.

And of course, despite everything, there are never any garuantees that it will work out. That’s the unfortunate rub:/

I couldn't agree more Age is just 1 factor that at least for me mostly revolves around being able to have children, there are plenty of other factors to take into consideration as you say.

Is it safe to say then that a 10 year gap should be feasible at all (relevant) ages? e.g. when you're 40 it wouldn't be hard to date a 30 years old woman.

I understand that too big a gap is problematic from a woman's point of view as well, but what about the older man's point of view?

I'm starting to repeat myself a bit in my replies to different people here, sorry about that, but this is one of the main points I'd like to focus on after all - do you have any experience dating women with such an age gap? If so, how does it compare to dating women your age? What are the advantages / disadvantages?

 

[Desdinova]

how many of your male friends are living with much younger women?

Two or three, and they have a wider age gap than me and my GF do.

I'd like to believe that a girl after her party years is far more attracted to those qualities than she is during her party years, simply because what she's looking for has changed.

I honestly don't believe a woman's attraction towards certain attributes changes. Their goals (read: needs) change as they get older. They are in more need of security and a sperm donor for any children they may not have given birth to. Other than that, they're still attracted to the same things.

you can definitely objectively "measure" traits that are considered to be quality traits - intelligence, wisdom, beauty, personality, femininity, etc.

If that's all you're looking for in a companion, you're going to find lots of women who will qualify. If you're looking for a woman who's free of orbiters and respects you as the only man in her life, you're going to have a difficult time. That is one quality that is scarce from today's women. We shall go into more detail...

Why am I less likely to find a "quality" woman in older ages? Is it because at that point the "quality" ones are either taken or damaged goods?

From what I've seen, any woman who's been alpha-widowed is damaged goods. By the time a woman reaches the age of 23, she's already experienced a man who made a deep emotional impression in her mind, and is now absent from her life.

A lot of people here talk about how there is no such thing as a "soulmate", but I have a different opinion... Women are the only ones who have "soulmates". Men do not. Men are able to recover from a nasty bout of one-itis. For women, one-itis is a terminal disease. They will never forget that one guy who made the first deep emotional imprint upon her. That is how she measures all future men; her ideal "soulmate" will make her feel even deeper feelings than that first guy who made his impression upon her. She will search forever trying to find him, and she will fail continuously. That is why they ride the c0ck carousel. That is why they give up on men. They face an uphill battle because their looks fade with time, and any alpha-male in his right mind isn't looking to fvck and build a relationship with an old lady.

Define maturity peak. From what I've seen, most (good looking) women at that age are attention seeking robots that don't bring much to the table other than their good looks and their sense of entitlement. That is of course a wide generalization that is subjectively derived from my own personal experiences, but it does seem to be the rule so far, so my hope might be to find the exceptions to that rule.

Their maturity peak just doesn't progress. If they're riding the c0ck carousel at age 23, then they'll be riding the c0ck carousel at age 33. Women will dismiss everything they've learned for how they feel in the present moment. She knows that riding the c0ck carousel is bad, but when there's men with bad reputations and habits in her vicinity that make her vagina tingle, she's going to fvck them. Emotion will override logic. That doesn't change as a woman ages beyond puberty.

That is a point I'd like to understand. Why is a lower mileage better? From your experience and understanding, does mileage truly damage the goods? How and why?

It's not the mileage that damages the goods, it's the one guy who makes her an alpha-widow. She has to compare the emotional imprint he's left upon her to all future men, and none of those men will ever live up to that expectation. All they can do is make her feel attraction in the moment, but the lasting emotional imprint will never be as deep as that first guy.

Alpha widow is an interesting concept, does it truly end the game for a woman? Does she keep looking for the same alpha traits in any male she comes across and becomes disappointed and uninterested if they do not exhibit one or more of these traits?

I believe it ends (or severely diminishes) the woman's possibility of finding and staying with that man she calls her "soulmate"; that man who's a pillar in her life, and that man who leaves his everlasting emotional imprint upon her.

It's not a game of traits, it's a game of emotions. A man can have the exact same traits as the man who alpha-widowed her, but she is no longer naive with her emotions, and will never feel emotions as strongly for another man. All she can do is settle for Mr. Good Enough at that point

Is an alpha widow likely to be satisfied and fulfilled with a different alpha? Or a beta that at that at the very least exhibits some alpha traits?

She can be physically satisfied and fulfilled with another alpha. The only possible way for a new man to throw the guy at the top of her high score list into second place is if he can make a deeper emotional imprint, but the only way to do that is through emotional fluctuation and time. In other words, treat her well, then treat her like 5hit, then treat her well again, and repeat ad nauseum.

From what I understand, the reality should be different for women after their party years, especially after the age of 30. Does your statement refer to those as well?

It's interesting... I haven't referred to a woman's "party years" in a very long time. I used to mention them quite regularly years ago on this forum. What I've realized is that a woman's "party years" show up around the time that she becomes alpha-widowed which is generally in the range of ages (x)teen to twenty three. The two coincide with each other. Now, are those two separate events that happen in her life, or are they related? Does a woman actually need to go through her "party years" to become a mature, successful woman? The conclusion I've come to is, no she does not. She can just as easily skip her "party years" to become a loyal, faithful companion to a man. If that man leaves her, she will then start her "party years" and hop onto the c0ck carousel just like all the others.

Honestly, I believe that the "party years" are just a way of compensating for the emotional fluctuation she's missing from the man who made her experience it in the first place.

At what point do they grow out of that phase? Is the gap in mentality, personality, wisdom and experience ever bridged to a satisfactory point?

Again, a woman's "party years" are just compensation for a lack of emotional fluctuation from the man who alpha-widowed her. If she doesn't get her emotional fluctuation from partying, she'll get it from creating drama in her own life.

Regardless of intelligence, it seems their lack of wisdom and life experience, and their very own programmed nature keeps pulling them back to doing and saying things that can't be described as intelligent, where I could definitely expect the same women to have better judgement as they get older.

You have to keep in mind that a woman's brain is wired very differently from a man's brain. Women will live in the moment of their emotions. If you remember that, then all of their actions make complete sense.

Aren't girls at that age more party oriented?
Do you not feel the age gap? What're its disadvantages in your eyes and how do you deal with them?

I don't really feel the age gap. We laugh at the fact that she was one year old when I got my drivers license. Other than that, we still enjoy doing activities together. Age gap does not dictate fun or enjoyment from an activity. The only disadvantages from an age gap are the ones you make into disadvantages. If you don't let it dictate your relationship, then the both of you won't have a problem with it.