Bent-over row VS. Weighted Pullups

[BirdofParadise]

Fellows, I've been doing bent-over rows for a month or so now, and although I'm slowly, slowly adding weight, I still don't think I have the form completely down. Additionally, I'm not crazy about the exercise. If I substitute weighted, wide grip pull-ups - I know I can do those correctly - will I still be working the same muscles? Or would I miss out by skipping the bent row. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Drum&Bass]

use dumb bells and focus on squeezing your shoulder blades together. pretend someone has their hand in the middle of your back and everytime you bring the DB's up you try to squeeze the hand in the middle of your back with your shoulder blades ...use 15 lbs for 50 reps and eventually you'll get a feel on how to contract the muscle and focus on not using your arms.

All rowing exercises are basically just squeezing your shoulder blades together, (pull at your elbows NOT with your hands)

weighted pull ups work the lats and give you a wider back...rows develop those detailed muscles around your shoulder blades.

 

[BirdofParadise]

Thanks, Drum, this will help me out a lot.

 

[spesmilitis]

Why use dumbells? Thats the first time I heard dumbbells recommended. I also think 50 reps is unnecessary.

I know pullups gives you the v-shaped back. I think BOR's give you upper back thickness. They do not work the same muscles as I am very good at the pull up but very bad at the BOR.

Do both explosively. Like Fedor does about 45 seconds into this clip http://youtube.com/watch?v=RREGFOZoZTk
Except I recommend going up till the top of your chest touches the bar.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Why use dumbells?

Greater range of motion, more comfortable for your wrists when pulling back.

Thats the first time I heard dumbbells recommended

O RLY ?

I also think 50 reps is unnecessary.

is that what you think? not that anyone really cares.

....if he gets through 50 reps his muscle will be worked and he will develop a better mind/muscle control (he won't be doing 50 every time, but I'm trying to help him learn the exercise through an internet forum. I dare you to give it a shot and I garrauntee you'll love the way it feels when your done, matter of fact 4 sets 50 reps of 15 lbs.

 

[TyTe`EyEs]

4 sets 50 reps of 15 lbs.

Ummm.....no.

 

[spesmilitis]

O RLY ?

Yes. If any of the experienced lifters here feel that dumbbells are more effective than barbells when it comes to the BOR, please add to this discussion.

is that what you think? not that anyone really cares.

Maybe not many people here care about what I think. But considering that your advice is usually inconsistent with the advice of those who are respected here, I'd say your opinions are less likely to be cared about.

 

[Quagmire911]

Fellows, I've been doing bent-over rows for a month or so now, and although I'm slowly, slowly adding weight, I still don't think I have the form completely down. Additionally, I'm not crazy about the exercise. If I substitute weighted, wide grip pull-ups - I know I can do those correctly - will I still be working the same muscles? Or would I miss out by skipping the bent row. Any insight would be appreciated.

If you don't think you have the form down, then make sure you do before adding weight. I'm not crazy about rows either, but it is a pretty important exercise.

My advice would be too do what I do and rotate rows and pullups every week. That way you get the best of both worlds. No exercise works the same muscles in the same way but they work similar muscles and you don't want to much supplementary work from your BIG three. You could incorporate both every week by lowering the number of sets and doing 1-2 for each depending on how much you can handle.

For the next week or two you could just do pullups and practice the row form with an empty barbell until you feel comfortable with the form then start attacking the PR's again.

If it is strength you are aiming for then please do not do 50 reps as you will get nowhere. I suppose Drum's advice might be ok if you are practicing form but not if it leads to any kind of lactic acid build up or is strenuous, as this will hamper your recovery. Additionally, I would stick with a barbell for now.

Anymore questions feel free to ask,

Quagmire

P.s.-I notice you made a thread back in April or so, how is the training going>?

 

[Drum&Bass]

I suppose Drum's advice might be ok if you are practicing form

DUH read his post genius....he IS trying to learn the form

 

[Quagmire911]

DUH read his post genius....he IS trying to learn the form

And he is also adding weight, genius It is called strength training, not endurance training. You are aware of this concept?

 

[Drum&Bass]

why should he be worried about adding weight when he doesn't even have the form down yet ???

 

[Quagmire911]

Read the first line of my first post, genius.

I am not getting into a trolling match with someone who has a history of giving bad advice, or anyone for that matter. You have argued many irrelevant points in the past that have shown your ignorance. My advice to you is to re-educate yourself and stop polluting the good advice on this forum.

My advice is given, Birdofparadise can choose who's advice to take.

Quagmire out...

 

[BirdofParadise]

Guys, I'm tracking you both. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I don't have super heavy dumbbells so I'll stick with the Barbell Rows and also do Pullups, being careful not to overwork.

Quagmire - I started lifting in the beginning of May (after preliminary actions such as that April post you mentioned) and have since worked out 3 times a week. I'm still doing it. Considering I've been more or less bumbling forward, I don't think I've done too badly. I got a bench in August and lack a spotter, but I lift what I can. My bodyweight is about 145, I can do 3 sets of 5x130. I think that'll improve in time. I can deadlift 265 lbs, albeit with difficulty. I've got dinky triceps compared to my biceps (which aren't huge either but have definition) so that's a bit of a disappointment. Overall, though, I've got an okay shape considering I'm eating at most 3000 calories a day, which I'm sure isn't enough but I can't afford much more than that (I currently go to school). I'll be sure to ask more questions, so thanks for offering to answer.

Best to all

 

[Master Bates]

so, any advice on how to properly do a bent-over row? I just started doing them, and I can tell it's an exercise that you don't wanna do with improper form.

 

[spesmilitis]

whoops,

I should've posted this a long time ago

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-perform-the-bent-over-barbell-row/

 

[mrRuckus]

The lifts are not interchangeable. One is for back width; the other is for back thickness. Of course, there is some overlap.

A row is really no big complication. Just don't round your back and pull into your upper gut while avoiding using your hips to cheat it up. If you can't stop yourself from rounding your back then lower the weight or you might have tight hamstrings.


3000 calories is probably plenty for someone 140 lbs. I know i put on weight with that many calories at a heigher bodyweight than that.

 

[Master Bates]

Is the bent-over row interchangeable with the exercise where you squat over the middle of a barbell and lift up one end with both hands?

 

[mrRuckus]

T-bar row? Well, yeah sorta. All the rows are back thickness exercises.

I wouldn't abandon a normal row completely for t-bar rows though. It's completely fine for a change of pace but a regular row is still the bread and butter.

 

[spesmilitis]

The lifts are not interchangeable. One is for back width; the other is for back thickness. Of course, there is some overlap.

Aha. So that's why I have decent back width but horrible back thickness.

 

[stronglifts]

Fellows, I've been doing bent-over rows for a month or so now, and although I'm slowly, slowly adding weight, I still don't think I have the form completely down. Additionally, I'm not crazy about the exercise. If I substitute weighted, wide grip pull-ups - I know I can do those correctly - will I still be working the same muscles? Or would I miss out by skipping the bent row. Any insight would be appreciated.

Rule number 1: the exercises that you hate the most, are the exercises that you should do. Rows are hard. Very hard. Not as hard as Squats or deadlifts, but definitely harder than an overhead press or bench press.

The solution is not to substitute the exercise for an easier one. Rather keep working at it. You're adding weight, so that's good. You might not be crazy about it, because it's hard. Doesn't matter: keep working at it, you'll get a strong back.

The Bent-over row is one of those exercises, that when you get stronger at them, you see your other lifts increase. Especially horizontal/vertical pressing motionns like bench press/overhead press.