being assertive appears full on/desperate/clingy/needy

[pete101]

ok women flake we know that and they give flakey answers and don't commit to a time on the phone and will give u answers like 'i'll let u know' or 'maybe next week'

obviously this smells of a HB who is of low interest or sometimes it could just be a BS test to see if you're persistent enough.

what i've found is that if i try to be assertive and say something like 'well give me a yes/no now, i got things to do, people to see and can't wait around for u to give me an answer tomorrow, obviously i'd like to meet u cos i think you're cool but i'm a busy guy i got other plans in waiting'

why is it that when she is flakey with her answers and expects u to be 'easygoing' i.e. letting her not give u a straight yes she determines u are clingy/needy or full on?

it's like u can't win.. u try to be assertive u get called full on. u say 'cool, let me know' u just get walked over.

 

[goodfoot]

A girl who can't give you a sure date and time is probably displaying low interest. Think about it. If the roles were reversed, and a girl asked you out, you would probably cancel most plans. Asking for a sure answer puts them on the spot so they have to tell you no to your face. they would rather take the easy road, say "Call me tomorrow", and not answer their phone.

Sometimes the girl actually does have a lot on her plate. If that is the case, put the ball in her court and tell her to call when she can go out.

 

[Wynston]

Its a little bit of a seemingly grey area, on one hand you wanna be cool and lay back and on the other hand you want to be the agressor and be assertive, without having more of a background on the situation its hard to tell, maybe you should just lay back and let her come to you, if she doesnt contact you then you know, if she does contact you then you can be assertive but try not to be angry, and dont give reasons just say the name of the day that will be good for you and keep it black and white, yes or no, if yes then great if no then great at least you know.. Women are hard work like anything until you know! Good luck!

 

[pete101]

it's more a general question cos i get this a lot where i'm confused how to behave cos i want to appear easy going and willing to walk away anytime yet also try to be assertive.. i sometimes get p1ssed off when they get annoyed with me on the phone when i press them for a straight answer.. i know i shouldn't show emotion but i get annoyed easily esp with bad disrespectful behaviour and it's like u need to treat them as a small child and tell them off cos nobody says sh1t back to them.. will that really work though, the confrontational tactic? (i'm talking about the spoilt princess daddy's girls though..)

 

[Interceptor]

Petey, I get the feeling that when you are demanding an answer then and there, you're being aggressive, and demonstrative. Thats not being confident and secure with whatever answer she gives you.

So yeah, IMO you DO come across as desperate and needy, because of the WAY you are demanding for an answer.

Try to be cool with WHATEVER comes out of her mouth.
Its ok.

Leave it up to her. Dont try to take away her responsibility, or force her.
You have to understand how the female mind works. And putting her under pressure for an answer does not usually come out for the best.
If youre a stranger, you have less of a chance for her emotional investment. And when you put so much pressure on her, she will usually fall back on her safety boundaries, because she hasnt built enough trust and comfort with you. And when you put pressure to decide right then and there , you really give off the desperate vibe, and it turns her off.

It's like literally saying "So, strange woman, are you going to give me sex or not???!!I NEED to know RIGHT NOW!!!"

And unless your status is INCREDIBLY higher than hers, many times you won't get the response you hope for. Because you're not triggering her attraction switches properly, you're objectifying her without her feeling like you "SEE" her.
Oftentimes, women get the vibe from men that "Whatever, you're just some random b*tch. I dont care about you. Are you gonna blow me or what?"
And that doesnt often translate to a woman feeling sexy at all.
Try to see how their mind works.


So, even if you do assert yourself (ie "This is what I want from you.") It shouldnt have such an AFFECT on you, whatever her decision IS. And THAT is extremely SEXY to women!

You just decide, 'Should I continue with this or not?"
And if it's not what you want, you're cool with it.

"OK, have a great night. You are gorgeous. Wonderful meeting you."

And you move on, relaxed, and self assured, and ready to move on to something else.
THAT is sexy to WOMEN.


I swear to God, thats all it is.
You dont have to justify or overtly demonstrate your boundaries like you think you do.


Also, overt communication like you seem to be doing is usually demonstrated by the needy insecure guys. So youre behaving like the needy insecure guy here, even if you feel that youre not.


Makes sense?

 

[wjh]

DonS, I'm not sure I totally see where you are coming from.

I've had girls chase me that were way into me, sure, and I could have nailed them and some I did. I'm sure they had those stupid goofy feelings.

However, I don't see how I can actively approach and go out with girls and then work on them without any initial chase* unless I have an enourmous amount of good looks and high social value (like lots of $), which I don't.

Describe, please, this "how you act" that you're referring to. If you're talking about Negs, C+F, ok sure, I get that and I often employ those tactics when necessary. But are you referring to something else we may not be aware of? I would like some specifics.

*What I define as "chase" is simply approaching, building rapport/comfort, a little sexual tension, etc. NOT supplicating weak behavior.

 

[WC2]

DonS, I'm not sure I totally see where you are coming from.

I've had girls chase me that were way into me, sure, and I could have nailed them and some I did. I'm sure they had those stupid goofy feelings.

However, I don't see how I can actively approach and go out with girls and then work on them without any initial chase* unless I have an enourmous amount of good looks and high social value (like lots of $), which I don't.

Describe, please, this "how you act" that you're referring to. If you're talking about Negs, C+F, ok sure, I get that and I often employ those tactics when necessary. But are you referring to something else we may not be aware of? I would like some specifics.

*What I define as "chase" is simply approaching, building rapport/comfort, a little sexual tension, etc. NOT supplicating weak behavior.

The whole attitude of "working" on women just sets you up for failure. You shouldn't have to work for a woman. Guys who work for women may get lucky once in a blue moon.

Guys who ATTRACT women naturally and don't need them get almost all the women they talk to. Women don't want guys put into the palm of their hand. This is simply what happens when you approach a woman and start asking her on a date way too early.

Jesus, I can't remember the last time I asked a woman on a date. It usually just happens. And she's usually the one asking.

That's why as DJs we always encourage improving one's self and then worrying about women (by then you won't really have to). You have it backwards. You're worrying about women before you really have worried about yourself. Guys don't naturally attract girls for no reason. It's simply because they are superior beings and women know that they are not all that worried about getting women because they already can and have!

 

[trd323]

God, when will you AFC's learn? YOU NEVER TRY AND MAKE PLANS WITH A HB! I'm not sure how many times this has to be repeated. And for FK's sake, when she of course does flake, you then read her the riot act about "I'M A BUSY GUY AND YOU HAVE TO TELL ME RIGHT NOW!" Then you come here and ask "why am I freaking girls out?" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW ABOUT WOMEN; ALL THE LIES FROM YOUR MOM AND SISTERS; ALL THE LIES FROM MOVIES. WOMEN CAN ONLY FEEL ATTRACTION FOR MEN THEY HAVE TO CHASE. P E R I O D.

Don't you get it? Good looking women are hit on CONSTANTLY by hundreds of guys. And here you come; you chat for 10 minutes; then you put pressure on her for a date. Of course she is going to flake. And then you flip out on her about how you are too busy to wait for an answer. LOLOL.

Do you know what this chick is waiting for? She's waiting for her dreams to come true: a real man; a man who demonstrates (not talks) higher value; a man who is cool and confident and who has his choice of dozens of chicks. A man she has to chase in hopes of getting his attention; and if she's lucky and works real hard, maybe she'll get a tiny slice of his time in which she'll try to impress him. But oh, no, what does she get? A long line of AFC's with flowers in hand asking her to go out with them. All of them displaying lower value.

Listen closely because if your walnut sized brains can grasp this concept, you'll be nailing 5 HB11's by the end of the month. STOP CHASING WOMEN; YOU CAN NOT WIN. By chasing a woman you are displaying that you are inferior to her. And women are DISGUSTED by this. Create an environment in which the chick has to chase you for your validation and THEY HAVE NO OPTION BUT TO FEEL MASSIVE ATTRACTION. IT IS THIS FK'ING SIMPLE. IT IS A BUILT INTO FEMALES WIRING. JUST LIKE WHEN YOU SEE A SUPER HOTTIE WITH GIANT JUGS AND A TIGHT ASS YOU FEEL ALL GOOFY INSIDE AND YOU STARE IN AWE - YOU CAN MAKE ANY WOMAN FEEL THIS SAME WAY ABOUT YOU; NOT BY HOW YOU LOOK, BUT BY HOW YOU ACT.

Ok. Which "pick-Up Theory" did you copy and paste this response from? mystery, tyler, max, style?

That is fckin ridiculous.

1) dont make plans with an HB(wtf) say woman or girl. So how the fcuk do you get to know a person if you dont make plans to meet?? please enlighten everyone you MASTER PUA!!!!! BS!!!

2) So, when your mom, sisters, and movies says treat a woman respectfully, open doors for them, make her feel like a strong confident women is ALL BS??
No, YOU SIR ARE FULL OF BS

3) Hot, confident, and attractive women get hit on by hundreds of guys??BS!!
please ask a 100 attractive women on the street today and see if they even get hit on by guys twice a week. They fckin DONT. most guys just hoot and howler like drunk construction workers.

4) "Do you know what this chick is waiting for? She's waiting for her dreams to come true: a real man; a man who demonstrates (not talks) higher value; a man who is cool and confident and who has his choice of dozens of chicks. A man she has to chase in hopes of getting his attention; and if she's lucky and works real hard, maybe she'll get a tiny slice of his time in which she'll try to impress him. But oh, no, what does she get? A long line of AFC's with flowers in hand asking her to go out with them. All of them displaying lower value"

This is again ridiculous. What the hell are you even talking about?? Please explain in great detail.

5) Hey pea brain. Your post is complete non-sense. Instead of posting concepts that are 3-4 years old and reading tons opf material. Why dont you actually go out in the field and really find out what REAL women want.



ONE WORD: Dumbass

 

[pete101]

Petey, I get the feeling that when you are demanding an answer then and there, you're being aggressive, and demonstrative. Thats not being confident and secure with whatever answer she gives you.

So yeah, IMO you DO come across as desperate and needy, because of the WAY you are demanding for an answer.

Try to be cool with WHATEVER comes out of her mouth.
Its ok.

Leave it up to her. Dont try to take away her responsibility, or force her.
You have to understand how the female mind works. And putting her under pressure for an answer does not usually come out for the best.
If youre a stranger, you have less of a chance for her emotional investment. And when you put so much pressure on her, she will usually fall back on her safety boundaries, because she hasnt built enough trust and comfort with you. And when you put pressure to decide right then and there , you really give off the desperate vibe, and it turns her off.

It's like literally saying "So, strange woman, are you going to give me sex or not???!!I NEED to know RIGHT NOW!!!"

And unless your status is INCREDIBLY higher than hers, many times you won't get the response you hope for. Because you're not triggering her attraction switches properly, you're objectifying her without her feeling like you "SEE" her.
Oftentimes, women get the vibe from men that "Whatever, you're just some random b*tch. I dont care about you. Are you gonna blow me or what?"
And that doesnt often translate to a woman feeling sexy at all.
Try to see how their mind works.


So, even if you do assert yourself (ie "This is what I want from you.") It shouldnt have such an AFFECT on you, whatever her decision IS. And THAT is extremely SEXY to women!

You just decide, 'Should I continue with this or not?"
And if it's not what you want, you're cool with it.

"OK, have a great night. You are gorgeous. Wonderful meeting you."

And you move on, relaxed, and self assured, and ready to move on to something else.
THAT is sexy to WOMEN.


I swear to God, thats all it is.
You dont have to justify or overtly demonstrate your boundaries like you think you do.


Also, overt communication like you seem to be doing is usually demonstrated by the needy insecure guys. So youre behaving like the needy insecure guy here, even if you feel that youre not.


Makes sense?

i hear what you're saying but this still doesn't answer how i'd respond to a flakey answer if she's like 'i'll let you know' or 'i'll call u later..'

what do you say to that?

do u just take it as a sign that she's not interested then leave it and just say 'cool see ya.' ?

it's like they all pretend they're ditzy innocent girls who don't know what's going on and i understand that being confrontational isn't going to work but i have no idea how to (with the flow of the convo secure the next date and what to say..) i may have done well on the 1st date but i ruin it on the 1st phone call after..

 

[pete101]

God, when will you AFC's learn? YOU NEVER TRY AND MAKE PLANS WITH A HB! I'm not sure how many times this has to be repeated. And for FK's sake, when she of course does flake, you then read her the riot act about "I'M A BUSY GUY AND YOU HAVE TO TELL ME RIGHT NOW!" Then you come here and ask "why am I freaking girls out?" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW ABOUT WOMEN; ALL THE LIES FROM YOUR MOM AND SISTERS; ALL THE LIES FROM MOVIES. WOMEN CAN ONLY FEEL ATTRACTION FOR MEN THEY HAVE TO CHASE. P E R I O D.

Don't you get it? Good looking women are hit on CONSTANTLY by hundreds of guys. And here you come; you chat for 10 minutes; then you put pressure on her for a date. Of course she is going to flake. And then you flip out on her about how you are too busy to wait for an answer. LOLOL.

Do you know what this chick is waiting for? She's waiting for her dreams to come true: a real man; a man who demonstrates (not talks) higher value; a man who is cool and confident and who has his choice of dozens of chicks. A man she has to chase in hopes of getting his attention; and if she's lucky and works real hard, maybe she'll get a tiny slice of his time in which she'll try to impress him. But oh, no, what does she get? A long line of AFC's with flowers in hand asking her to go out with them. All of them displaying lower value.

Listen closely because if your walnut sized brains can grasp this concept, you'll be nailing 5 HB11's by the end of the month. STOP CHASING WOMEN; YOU CAN NOT WIN. By chasing a woman you are displaying that you are inferior to her. And women are DISGUSTED by this. Create an environment in which the chick has to chase you for your validation and THEY HAVE NO OPTION BUT TO FEEL MASSIVE ATTRACTION. IT IS THIS FK'ING SIMPLE. IT IS A BUILT INTO FEMALES WIRING. JUST LIKE WHEN YOU SEE A SUPER HOTTIE WITH GIANT JUGS AND A TIGHT ASS YOU FEEL ALL GOOFY INSIDE AND YOU STARE IN AWE - YOU CAN MAKE ANY WOMAN FEEL THIS SAME WAY ABOUT YOU; NOT BY HOW YOU LOOK, BUT BY HOW YOU ACT.

ok then explain how you'd create a situation where you're the prize and she has to chase you?

you preach about what you 'should' do so explain how it should be done in a context which we can relate to..

i understand the theory and what you're saying but you're not providing me with anything which i can go by on to actually utilize.. whenever i try to create a scenario where i'm the prize she just somehow flips it around so it's her who is it and cos i'm confused at the time i don't know how to flip it back.. it's like she calls my bluff when i pretend i'm not interested.

 

[Rhoto]

i hear what you're saying but this still doesn't answer how i'd respond to a flakey answer if she's like 'i'll let you know' or 'i'll call u later..'

what do you say to that?

NOT A GODDAMN THING!

You hang up the phone or walk away.

 

[slaog]

ok then explain how you'd create a situation where you're the prize and she has to chase you?

you preach about what you 'should' do so explain how it should be done in a context which we can relate to..

i understand the theory and what you're saying but you're not providing me with anything which i can go by on to actually utilize.. whenever i try to create a scenario where i'm the prize she just somehow flips it around so it's her who is it and cos i'm confused at the time i don't know how to flip it back.. it's like she calls my bluff when i pretend i'm not interested.

Its really about having a prize mindset. You're getting confused because you're trying tactics to act like the prize. BE the prize and you'll behave like the prize.

When you have a prize mindset you won't care about women flaking because you're the prize and they're missing out. This mindset has the effect of women wanting to chase you more. They now know that you have high value and that is very attractive to them.

You create attraction by your mindset. Have a high value mindset and you'll behave like a high value person. Women look for high value men so naturally they'll be attracted to you.

It's not really about chat up lines etc it's subconscious communication that comes naturally if you believe you are the prize. PUA's try to learn all this stuff but the best way is to become the prize instead of learning and trying to act like it when you believe you are not.

 

[SharinganUser]

Easy, just say, "That's cool, have a good weekend." Hang up and then invite someone else.

 

[DonGorgon]

HERE IS YOUR EXPLANATION:

SAY THINGS BUT DONT BACK THEM UP WITH ACTIONS!
ACT BUT DONT BACK IT UP WITH WORDS!

Be erratic odd unpredictable and suddenly absent, say you care but never care
She will view you strongest when you act the most nonresponsive..

THIS ONLY WORKS IF SHE IS ATTRACTED TO YOU AND YOU HAVE PHYSICALLY INTERACTED WITH HER... NOT IF YOU ARE CHASING HER

 

[ketostix]

I think the reason why as you said OP you're damned if you do and damned if you don't is because the girl lacks interest. There's really not much else you can do but do a takeaway and move on.

 

[Interceptor]

i hear what you're saying but this still doesn't answer how i'd respond to a flakey answer if she's like 'i'll let you know' or 'i'll call u later..'

what do you say to that?

do u just take it as a sign that she's not interested then leave it and just say 'cool see ya.' ?

it's like they all pretend they're ditzy innocent girls who don't know what's going on and i understand that being confrontational isn't going to work but i have no idea how to (with the flow of the convo secure the next date and what to say..) i may have done well on the 1st date but i ruin it on the 1st phone call after..

Yeah, pretty much.
Im not going to be begging no woman to go out with me, Pete.
So I am not going to be horribly disappointed when it happens.
Its ok, man.
Women do often run hot and cold. Sometimes guys drop the ball after the first date.
You have to ride the wave, and not let it bother you and throw you off course.
Bottom line, you cannot BE the Alpha and let someone take over your mind like this.
Dude, you think you are the ONLY guy who has had women flake on you???

C'mon, Pete.
Dont base your self esteem on some woman that you hardly even know, and you shouldnt be basing it on someone anyway.

If shes interested, GREAT.
If not, we'll be OK.
Thats how it is, man.

We will be fine with whatever she decides...
....it doesnt mean I HAVE to ACCEPT it.
See, a lot of guys are so desperate, that they really cannot mentally and emotionally, and physically handle a woman flaking, or not putting forth that much interest.
So they break, they lose control, freak, get angry, and want to get back at the woman. (She sees who you REALLY are.)
Not knowing that a LOT of women operate this way JUST TO SEE IF you will be ONE of those needy insecure guys that will hound her for a date and seek her approval.
She weeds those guys out. Women do not go out with guys who need their approval. It just doesnt work that way.


When you freak out if some woman does NOT jump your bones then and there, she GETS TURNED OFF, man.

It's a Red Flag.
Think about it.
And be cool with letting people BE who they ARE.

And you keep living your life.

 

[Prod]

I think the reason why as you said OP you're damned if you do and damned if you don't is because the girl lacks interest. There's really not much else you can do but do a takeaway and move on.

While the discussion above is very interesting, this is a concise answer to the specific situation.

 

[true romance]

There are few things we need to differentiate:

Pete is looking for tactics, startegies, one liner to conteract the flakiness..which a poor way to seduce girls.

DonS is talking about building the inner game, confidence etc ...which many guru preach here. Once your shine like a star chick just come to you..I know this....Work on you, you, you.!!!!

I notice decent guys with great confidence and have great understanding of women have no need for any tactics or strategies. These guys are fun to be with, women lineup to give their phone number. These guys have options and they browse different venue so they have plenty of opportunities to meet women. they expose themselves.

You have to work on yourself first fin out why girls flake on you...some of DJ already touch on this by your body language, insecured, needy..girls detect this instantly that's why they does not attract to you.

Very simple...if girl are attract to you then they will not flake, this apply to guys as well..when a girl you are interested in you will not flake , you want to see her. There is no amount of one liner, ultimate..etc

successful DJ already understand this...he controls his emotions, do not call often, humour...etc always keep her surprise..





if a fat chick keep calling you and force you to get a date, what would you do?

 

[PhenomX]

With women thinking they are the prize due to the way that all other men treat them and how they were brought up

and with us being told to take the "prize" mentality...

I say no one gets nothing.

 

[verysuave]

No, you are just simply stupid as shown by your responses. And unfortunately for you, stupidity can not be corrected.

I don't know dumb****, why don't you find which theory I copied this from if it is so obvious I did? Oh, wait, your are too stupid; nevermind.

You build rapport; you learn about some of their interests; then you invite them to join you for an activity you will be doing regardless of whether they join you or not. Example: This chick and I are talking for a while; I know she likes to bike, so I say, "hey, I'm biking around the lake Saturday morning; why don't you join me?" or "I'm meeting friends for happy hour after work; swing by; you'll have a blast." See, it isn't a date, there is zero pressure on her and there are zero expectations. I've never, ever had a chick refuse an invite to join me for an activity. Is this clear enough for you, stupid?

Are you mildly retarded? Must be. You go right ahead and bring a chick flowers on the first date; spill your guts to her telling her how much you like her; sit outside her window and sing her a song about your love for her. God you are stupid.


I also see that you are too stupid to even read. Did I say Hot, confident, and attractive women? No idiot, I didn't; I said good looking women. Take for example my best friend Lisa: she gets hit on a couple times every day and asked out about 5 times a week. Is she an uber-hottie who intimidates most men to do nothing more than gawk? No, she is simply good looking. Can your retarded mind comprehend the difference?

God you are stupid; that is in detail. Do you even know what the words you use mean? Try a dictionary: Here's a free one online: xwww.dictionary.comx

Sadly, nothing I say will be able to overcome the fact that you're stupid; you simply don't even have to capacity, nor ability, to understand concepts beyond the simple comprehensive tripe TV sitcoms have spoon fed you.

These aren't the regergitated 4 year old theories of anyone, much to your chagrin; simply 31 years of being an AFC just like yourself, and the past 3 years spent dating and fking dozens of hotties. I figured it out and enjoy sharing my story with other AFC's, like yourself; though most seem to be of an I.Q. above 75, unlike yourself. I get numerous thank yous and success stories via PM that let me know that my situation is not unique, but works universally.


Good Luck.

sounds kinda creepish.

I have TRIED THE "so u free this thursday? yes, no , i don't know" and the chick wasn't free thursday but she wanted to reschedule it on sunday the same week instead.

Seriously, that line doesn't sound desperate AT ALL. It's more like YOU DON'T GIVE A SHIET wether she say's no or not.

Some people will say, "OH, you are forcing her".. Actually you are NOT. You are giving her the OPTION to say "YES OR NO"..effing idiots.. and if she can't choose between yes or no, she will re schedule a different day.