being a friend isn't always bad!

[tomato]

If you think of the way DD uses the word "friend" almost as a neg it can be quite good. Also think of what you are with any girl before you go out - she doesn't immediately call you her BF she calls you her friend first - its actually totally natural! I was hanging out with my ex and we had a great time and the second time we had really good sex and I for some reason I went and said "I dont want to be friends with you - we could never be friends" - this instantly killed all attraction and killed all progress made in its tracks:

by saying that it was indirectly saying that I wanted to get back in a relationship with her - VERY BAD

Therefore I should have almost been pushing for the friend zone! It went really well!

Because of my paranoia of landing in the FZ I totally killed what could have been a makeup.......
I think from now on I'm going to treat her like a friend - totally agree with that frame - even make that frame but then obviously not act like one.... thats the best.... thoughts?

 

[floydb25]

It's no big deal unless you're insecure, over-sensitive to rejection, and need to feel wanted. Even if its used as a turn-down - who cares? Unless you're needy and in desperate need of their approval - you won't fight for them afterwards; will take it stride, and treat them like any other friend.

These core issues cause the majority of hang-ups with the friend-zone. Grow some confidence, know your value, don't whine and feel undesirable, find someone else, and don't pine after her. How special can someone be if they don't even want you? Not very. No reason to chase after such a person, and drop everything for them, and become their doormat. That's just weak and insecure, which will unattract her even more. Not to mention, its not healthy and reeks of low self-esteem, co-dependancy, and other issues. The world does not stop turning, and you aren't worthless for being rejected. Get over it.

I don't know if I agree with your assessment, though. Just because you show interest in someone, let your romantic intentions be known, and don't want to be their friend - doesn't mean you still don't have standards, won't settle, and aren't looking for a relationship with just anybody. That's the key, really. Just because you like her - doesn't mean you need her, or automatically want a relationship with her. It's still good to let your romantic intentions be known.

 

[window]

I love women. If I'm attracted to one sexually and she just wants to be friends that is cool...look at the benefits. She sais to her mates, hey I turned this guy down and he has no problems with being my mate...swoon. Suddenly 5 girls want to bed you.

I might add the problems start for the guy though when he thinks being a friend will eventually lead to sex and he focuses entirely on that friendship at the expense of other potential women. So you need to be totally cool with being friends. And in that situation the girl is more than likely want to have sex with you anyway (especially if you show your sexual interest in other women, whilst you are her friend).

 

[Fly By Night]

I think it's just the way you said it.

"I dont want to be friends with you - we could never be friends" sounds pretty negative in any context unless you said something about being more than friends after that.

 

[f283000]

I have no time to be a woman's friend.

Start drilling that mentality into your mind and you will do better with women.

 

[Leopold]

I dont think I could ever be friends with women anymore.

As long as you are not her orbiter nor her neutered pet doggy it'll be ok. I guess you could have some female "acquaintances" for the purpose of validation, wing men and other disposable uses but then again I wouldn't recommend it.

Just make sure you are clear that if you want to score with a girl... pay attention to what I'm going to say... DO NOT CASTRATE YOUR BALLS AND DO NOT PUT YOURSELF ON THE FRIEND ZONE.

 

[DonJuanabe]

I think she interpreted what you said as being needy -- needy of being more than friends, as in getting back together. I wrote this the other day and I'll write it here:

Women care about how they feel, not about what you say.

So just don't say a damn thing. Think about it -- why did you say that? You were -- deep down -- insecure and wanted confirmation from her that you were getting back together. She sensed that and her feelings went neg.

 

[PapiChulo]

Female 'friends' are good for social proof (validation) and drunken sex if you are in college. I am using the words friends loosely....and don't underestimate social proof.

 

[bigneil]

A woman will consider a man to be a friend or lover but not both (Louis Copeland).

 

[FairShake]

Dude, I've banged all my female friends.

If you never do, you're doing it (life) wrong.

 

[bigneil]

They either sleep with you right away, within 2 months (with romance, in writing) or half-assed but never "because you were such a good friend".

 

[dutchmaster]

I have two female friends and that's it. The only reason one is my friend is because a close friend of mine had been trying to get with her and I did hook up with her while he was trying but I felt bad because he really liked her so stopped and let him have her. Now we're still close even though she's with him. I actually enjoy having a girl to talk to about stupid ****. Plus I still work on my game around her I just don't actually make moves. The other one is like a 5/6 and too old for me (22/23) but I worked with her over the summer and she's just super ****ing cool lol.

So it is beneficial. She talks about setting me up with her friends a lot too and has done it a few times. It's just about being friends with the right ones.

 

[FairShake]

They either sleep with you right away, within 2 months (with romance, in writing) or half-assed but never "because you were such a good friend".

Being such a good friend keeps you around. If you are around them looking good enough when the drinks are flowing sex is to be had.

 

[nismo-4]

I have enough friends.

I'm not clipping off my balls in the hopes that things develop. F**k that sh*t. I'm gonna make a damn move and make sure not to be pegged as such. If I get rejected, I'm movin' on! No sense of being an orbiter, which by the was is not going to plug one of her craters.

You should, however, keep a woman as a wingwoman, as it makes you appear more desirable. :yes:

In short, if she's not a wingwoman or a f**k buddy, don't linger. :nono:

Case closed.

 

[tomato]

A woman will consider a man to be a friend or lover but not both (Louis Copeland).

this is what I am challenging - see the others evidence of f-closing friends and most often being "friends" with girls before going out with them. Also I f-closed my ex when we were going out as friends and it was the most amazing f-close ever! She had never put in that much effort it was epic and I was an idiot and gave into her wanting it to end soon!

 

[tomato]

I have enough friends.

I'm not clipping off my balls in the hopes that things develop. F**k that sh*t. I'm gonna make a damn move and make sure not to be pegged as such. If I get rejected, I'm movin' on! No sense of being an orbiter, which by the was is not going to plug one of her craters.

You should, however, keep a woman as a wingwoman, as it makes you appear more desirable. :yes:

In short, if she's not a wingwoman or a f**k buddy, don't linger. :nono:

Case closed.

before she's a f-buddy she has to be a buddy though right?

Any advice on steering things towards f-buddy? I want to prepare for when I set myself as being friends again with my ex (could be a while I just called her a who** about ten times and that I thought she was disgusting for ****ing a 18yr old boy a few weeks after we broke up - any experience on recovering a situation like this? I went out on two dates with her before all this after 8 weeks of this and f-closed her on the second one then she went distant on me for the last 4 weeks and wanted space because I said we couldnt be friends (see other thread))

 

[Jariel]

I've got it on with a number of my friends and a few of my long term exes started out as friends. Actually my mate and his wife were friends for 6 months before they kissed and got involved.

A lot of women like to take things slow, get to know a guy without any pressure, and friendship is a good start.

Telling a girl you don't want to be friends has always sounded quite stroppy and sulky to me, as in "I want my own way or I'm gonna walk away and have a tantrum".

 

[LoneWolf]

Nice thread. I think it's also about attraction. If the girl ain't attracted to you from the start, there's never gonna be a chance then. Almost every girl I've been friends with, we were both attracted to each other. Sometimes it never happened, sometimes it did. Like some guys are friends with ugly/fat girls and they'll never touch them but you can still be friends. But me? Soon as I know the girl ain't attracted from the start, I move on. I hate being friends with chicks UNLESS we are going to FUK soon.

 

[Serg897]

I've got it on with a number of my friends and a few of my long term exes started out as friends. Actually my mate and his wife were friends for 6 months before they kissed and got involved.

A lot of women like to take things slow, get to know a guy without any pressure, and friendship is a good start.

This just further reiterates in my mind that there really are no rules to this at all. Those that advocate NEXTing right away if you dont fvck by the second date might be losing out on something interesting long term.

I think one should up the sexual escalation promptly, especially if thats what you are looking for, but if the girl wants to take it slow I dont think there is any reason to dump her - just keep her around and on the back-burner just in case. She might end up being someone you value in your life later, as a friend or otherwise. Dont remove women from your life just because they arent giving you sex right away.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Listen... It really comes down to who you are, and how experienced you are.

"We should just be friends" said by a woman IS a kiss of death to a lot of men, because they buy it and do all kinds of dumb sh!t after hearing it. If a girl said it to me - i'd move through it as easy as a rain drop. "Whatever whatever whatever blah blah blah... drink some more... shut up... you'll be swallowing my pride soon enough."

I'll even remind her at a later intimacy provoking moment (it could be in 30 minutes; or in 30 days)... "whoa whoa there tiger... we're just friends... right right?"

It doesn't happen much though. Relationships just have a way of shaping into whatever you want them too if you lead with confidence properly. If women are verbalizing LJBF to you on a consistent bases - you're doing something to force them to. You're pushing (in some way), and they're pushing back.

"What are we?" at the wrong time will cause this.

Neediness will cause this.

Jealousy will FORCE this...

Fear, scarcity, obvious hidden motives will cause this.

You're giving off a vibe that's giving her an opportunity to classify you as moving too fast (or in a direction she's not willing to consciously accept); which in turn gives her the opportunity to eject/reject (this can happen even prior to any blatant advances).

There's no reason to "accept" any friend frame from her though. There's no reason to accept any frame from her because it really shouldn't be her place to set them.

I have a lot of experience with women saying, "I'm coming over, but I'm not having sex with you." It means NOTHING to me as it is. If you want to go indepths on it, it probably means, either: a) she's developing feelings for me and feels she has to break the sexual context of our meetings. b) she fvcked someone else recently and doesn't want to feel like a s!ut.

Whatever the case may be: "I'm coming over, but I'm not having sex with you."/"I think we should just be friends." - They mean NOTHING until she's in a position where she's not dropping her panties (if she's even wearing any).

Am I enjoying my time with a woman? Yes? Let's continue. No? Let me find someone else.

It's as simple as you want it to be.

Just don't be weak.