It's really tough to give advice on investing in another country. All I can say is that chances are, an asset is an asset no matter where you are from. If you can find ways to acquire assets which other people pay for, you are on the right track.djbr said:First of all, bump
STR8UP, are you still listening? lol
I wanted your take on a specific situation.. in Brazil, interest goes as fat as 3,5% PER MONTH *if you get a good loan*. Real estate gives around 1% of face value per month.
I think here the only hot thing might be stocks, but I'm starting. Maybe you (or other guys) got some information about the stuff here.
Any ideas?
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Yeah, sure. Just wanted to see if you had some info about the stuff here. Many people from US like to invest here, some stuff pay VERY nice. I'm new to the game so I don't know exactly, but I will surely put my hands on itSTR8UP said:
Socialreject
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The main point is that unless you have substantial personal funds, or a rich uncle, you will be using strangers' money to add it to your own assets. And these strangers aren't just going to give it to you, you have to build financial relationships with them. You can do that, by establishing rapport with them and doing business with them.
However you can't just borrow money, repay it and keep doing this. If you are paying interests and fees out of your paycheck you will get to a point where your paycheck does support the down payments. You can't pay off several 10-20k loans out of your 1500$ a month pay check, it just doesn't work that way.
So essentialy, USE the credit available to you. Use it to turn a profit. Whether that's through RE, stock, lending, business, it doesn't matter, but come the end of the month those funds have to be earning money.. if not they are only costing you money!
Aside from turning a profit, credit that is used also builds rapport. A credit card is an Ace example. I got my first CC and i got it with 1k credit on it. I used it constantly to buy just about anything.. it was always constantly maxed, and i always payed it correctly and timely. Which lead to the CC company sending me mail offering to increase my credit line. Which was when i started to make investments with the credit on my card... which lead to even higher ceilings on my CC.
All in all, this wasn't really my intention, i just found it very handy to pay with plastic instead of cash or wire transfer. Yet in so doing i established a solid credit line. And loans you take out with banks work the exact same way.
If you're going to work towards wealth, expect to use any and all methods available to you... stock, RE, business, lends, whatever turn you a profit! Don't ever stick your head, and your wallet into anything you have no direct control or insight over, or you WILL get screwed.
There is only one way you ever trust anyone with your money... if you are fully aware and informed of everything that's happening with your money! Banks don't work this way, bank work on trust trought reputation... but banks have loads of money, you don't!
However you can't just borrow money, repay it and keep doing this. If you are paying interests and fees out of your paycheck you will get to a point where your paycheck does support the down payments. You can't pay off several 10-20k loans out of your 1500$ a month pay check, it just doesn't work that way.
So essentialy, USE the credit available to you. Use it to turn a profit. Whether that's through RE, stock, lending, business, it doesn't matter, but come the end of the month those funds have to be earning money.. if not they are only costing you money!
Aside from turning a profit, credit that is used also builds rapport. A credit card is an Ace example. I got my first CC and i got it with 1k credit on it. I used it constantly to buy just about anything.. it was always constantly maxed, and i always payed it correctly and timely. Which lead to the CC company sending me mail offering to increase my credit line. Which was when i started to make investments with the credit on my card... which lead to even higher ceilings on my CC.
All in all, this wasn't really my intention, i just found it very handy to pay with plastic instead of cash or wire transfer. Yet in so doing i established a solid credit line. And loans you take out with banks work the exact same way.
If you're going to work towards wealth, expect to use any and all methods available to you... stock, RE, business, lends, whatever turn you a profit! Don't ever stick your head, and your wallet into anything you have no direct control or insight over, or you WILL get screwed.
There is only one way you ever trust anyone with your money... if you are fully aware and informed of everything that's happening with your money! Banks don't work this way, bank work on trust trought reputation... but banks have loads of money, you don't!
Establishing credit is kind of like hooking up with women.
When you have none, it's hard to get some. When you have more than you need, everyone wants to give you more.
If you know how to do it you can increase your credit limits exponentially.
1) Pay off one line of credit with another, then turn around and pay the first off with the second a month or two later. This will often trigger the computer to up your credit limit with each bank.
2) Every six months call up ALL of your creditors and ask them for an increase in your limit. This works MUCH better if your balances are low, but lots of times they will bump you up even if you owe them money.
I did this right after I paid off a bunch of balances last year, and I don't remember how much total my limits got raised, but I'm thinking it was over $30k in one day. Not bad for a few minutes on the telephone!
When you have none, it's hard to get some. When you have more than you need, everyone wants to give you more.
If you know how to do it you can increase your credit limits exponentially.
1) Pay off one line of credit with another, then turn around and pay the first off with the second a month or two later. This will often trigger the computer to up your credit limit with each bank.
2) Every six months call up ALL of your creditors and ask them for an increase in your limit. This works MUCH better if your balances are low, but lots of times they will bump you up even if you owe them money.
I did this right after I paid off a bunch of balances last year, and I don't remember how much total my limits got raised, but I'm thinking it was over $30k in one day. Not bad for a few minutes on the telephone!
Fact:More millionaires are made in real estate than any other job.
Fact #1: The rate of return from real estate sits at a low 1.7 percent since 1980's. 10 dollars invested in real estate in 1980 means you now have 17 dollars. (Cite with statistic later)
Fact #2: When considering how millionaires accumulated thier wealth, the smallest percentage did so with real estate. (cite with stat.)
most of my friends recently graduated college. I am amazed at how many of them want to do the real estate, and have read the book " rich dad poor dad". While the ideas have merit, there is no concrete ways on how to get rich via real estate.
The biggest source of my wealth is what I rake in every other week. Taking the biggest cut out of it I can into a tax deferred account, in conjunction with a diverse portfolio wherein my money is slowly making me money is how I will attempt to retire early. If I can get the money I am earning to be yielding the highest rate of returns ( stock market return has a 17% rate of return than real estate: again can not site statistic), than I am happy.
The difference between I, and the origional poster is I do not believe in debt. it is a risk, he is willing to take, and I am not -- at least not yet. As in another post, I respect his choice ,and definatly want to know how he ends up doing. I, at least now, am going to play the market with what I have.
sorry I can not provide statistics for my facts. I will search for them and post them later to validate my claims.
FWIW, if I had no car/ house payment, I could probably be sitting on more than 2 million in net assets my early 30's easly , and retire shortly there after. This is un-realistic since I have a car, and am still renting
synergy, your post made me mad for some reason. Don't take it personally but....
Stock market returns about 9 to 13 percent a year on average. Some years are lower, some are higher. In the last 3 or 4 years, you would have made a hell of a lot more in real estate than in the stock market (if you bought the S&P500 and sat on it). There's always a good market somewhere...you just have to be flexible to take advantage of it. If I wasn't learning the stock market I'd be learning foreclosures right now.
A paycheck isn't a source of wealth. Its a paycheck. A diverse portfolio won't make you enough money to retire young unless you start with a lot of money. Risk is the only way to make real money. It takes money to make money. I pay to have the ability to borrow hundreds of thousands a day just for the opportunity to make a few hundred..and sometimes(most of the time so far) I pay to lose money.
If you really wanted to make 2,000,000 before you were 40 so you could retire..I think you'd rent a crappier apartment and drive a Geo. My car is 11 years old and I live in North Las Vegas. Its hard but I'd rather die than have a secure life and not be rich until I'm old.
Stock market returns about 9 to 13 percent a year on average. Some years are lower, some are higher. In the last 3 or 4 years, you would have made a hell of a lot more in real estate than in the stock market (if you bought the S&P500 and sat on it). There's always a good market somewhere...you just have to be flexible to take advantage of it. If I wasn't learning the stock market I'd be learning foreclosures right now.
A paycheck isn't a source of wealth. Its a paycheck. A diverse portfolio won't make you enough money to retire young unless you start with a lot of money. Risk is the only way to make real money. It takes money to make money. I pay to have the ability to borrow hundreds of thousands a day just for the opportunity to make a few hundred..and sometimes(most of the time so far) I pay to lose money.
If you really wanted to make 2,000,000 before you were 40 so you could retire..I think you'd rent a crappier apartment and drive a Geo. My car is 11 years old and I live in North Las Vegas. Its hard but I'd rather die than have a secure life and not be rich until I'm old.
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Master Don Juan
STR8UP said:
This definitely works. I did this, and they increased my limit (I didn't get 30k, (not even close) but it was about a 25% increase of that card's line.)
I also negotiated a lower APR, too.
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Master Don Juan
synergy1 said:
Tax deferred still sucks, plus you have to deal with inflation. Retirement accounts also suck because they dictate what I can/can't do with my own money that I put in before I retire. (I hate CDs and mutual funds for the same reason) By the time you're ready to retire, your nest egg will be a lot smaller than you expect.
You seem to have bought into the debt-is-bad category. If you charge up a bunch of worthless stuff that depreciates as soon as you get it, then yes, debt is bad. (Also, how much is your car worth now compared to when you got it? How much does it cost every month to keep it running with gas, insurance, etc?) However, leveraging investments is good because it lets you get more bang for your buck (stocks and forex) and lets you enter markets that you normally couldn't touch with your current income (Real Estate).The difference between I, and the origional poster is I do not believe in debt. it is a risk, he is willing to take, and I am not -- at least not yet. As in another post, I respect his choice ,and definatly want to know how he ends up doing. I, at least now, am going to play the market with what I have.
sorry I can not provide statistics for my facts. I will search for them and post them later to validate my claims.
FWIW, if I had no car/ house payment, I could probably be sitting on more than 2 million in net assets my early 30's easly , and retire shortly there after. This is un-realistic since I have a car, and am still renting
Basically, Debt/Credit is a powerful weapon in the right hands. Don't knock it.
Don't knock house payments, either. If you have a mortgage on your own property you probably have equity that you can tap for other investments and you also have tax write-off. Renting does nothing for you except keep you off the street. You think you're being smart but everyone is really getting rich off of you.
Cant say I know ANY billionaires personally.
But of the millionaires I know:
Many made their cash through being professionals, and investing in property.
One is an options trader, and now is worth $7million, the majority of this came through real estate invesment (though he does earn $.35 million per annum), he has not made his money by investing in options himself (ironic?). He is 34 and married.
One is an orthadontist (not sure the spelling), and so is his wife, between them, they earn nearly $1 million per year, and now have two practices. They are worth around $5 million. They are 34 and married.
My brother opened a fast food franchise (started the research a couple of years ago) and now owns the beginning of a franchise. He is worth $2 million. He is 26.
The rest I know are old, safe, professionals, who earn their pay packet, support their kids, and buy property every now and then. These couples would each be worth about $2 million. They are all around their 50s.
I myself, am in my mid-twenties and have just got underway. Though I did trade stocks since I was 12 years old. So far I have around $100,000 in cash and liquid stocks. I am currently a financial analyst with 2 degrees.
So there you go, nearly all the millionaires I know (and none are overly rich, yet), made their money through first being professionals and saving, then investing in property. Other than my brother, who borrowed, started his company, and is doing the best of them all for his age.
I know plenty of other extremelly wealthy people, but I dont know them personally enough to estimate their wealth. One is the CEO of Computer Associates, I know what he earns, but he blows it damn quick also on his lifestyle!
The only part about property I dont like, is that at least here in Australia, there was a baby boomers generation, these baby boomers are all the ones who are in the high paying jobs now, and who are driving up the property boom. With them ageing, the ageing population is going to dramatically increase once they hit retirement age (in the next several years). Who is going to fund their retirements? Certainly not tax reform, it will have to be funded by themselves. Which means, the sale of hundreds of thousands of investment properties, ultimately pushing down the return on property. This is my theory, and a theory taken by many financial planners and advisers in Australia currently. One I know just sold 3 houses himself in the past year, as he beleives the crash will hit in the next few years. Should be very very interesting, the economy has NEVER seen a similar situation.
But of the millionaires I know:
Many made their cash through being professionals, and investing in property.
One is an options trader, and now is worth $7million, the majority of this came through real estate invesment (though he does earn $.35 million per annum), he has not made his money by investing in options himself (ironic?). He is 34 and married.
One is an orthadontist (not sure the spelling), and so is his wife, between them, they earn nearly $1 million per year, and now have two practices. They are worth around $5 million. They are 34 and married.
My brother opened a fast food franchise (started the research a couple of years ago) and now owns the beginning of a franchise. He is worth $2 million. He is 26.
The rest I know are old, safe, professionals, who earn their pay packet, support their kids, and buy property every now and then. These couples would each be worth about $2 million. They are all around their 50s.
I myself, am in my mid-twenties and have just got underway. Though I did trade stocks since I was 12 years old. So far I have around $100,000 in cash and liquid stocks. I am currently a financial analyst with 2 degrees.
So there you go, nearly all the millionaires I know (and none are overly rich, yet), made their money through first being professionals and saving, then investing in property. Other than my brother, who borrowed, started his company, and is doing the best of them all for his age.
I know plenty of other extremelly wealthy people, but I dont know them personally enough to estimate their wealth. One is the CEO of Computer Associates, I know what he earns, but he blows it damn quick also on his lifestyle!
The only part about property I dont like, is that at least here in Australia, there was a baby boomers generation, these baby boomers are all the ones who are in the high paying jobs now, and who are driving up the property boom. With them ageing, the ageing population is going to dramatically increase once they hit retirement age (in the next several years). Who is going to fund their retirements? Certainly not tax reform, it will have to be funded by themselves. Which means, the sale of hundreds of thousands of investment properties, ultimately pushing down the return on property. This is my theory, and a theory taken by many financial planners and advisers in Australia currently. One I know just sold 3 houses himself in the past year, as he beleives the crash will hit in the next few years. Should be very very interesting, the economy has NEVER seen a similar situation.
If Brazilian interest rates are higher than property returns, no way its a good idea to borrow, you will just go bankrupt. Not to mention, the state of the Brazilian economy would be more prone to fluctuations or even a crash. You could really be risking your livelihood by investing simply to aquire assets.STR8UP said:
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The same thing is going to happen here in the US. The baby boomers are in their 50s and 60s and are going to retire soon. This is going to bring Social Security to its knees and maybe even destroy it.CLOONEY said:
People are going to unload their properties as they retire and can't afford the upkeep, so there is going to eventually be a glut in the Real Estate market (HUGE buyer's market!
) which smart people in my generation are going to capitalize on. There are also going to be lots of cheap foreclosures and tax liens as impoverished seniors who just can't let go of property get behind and start defaulting.As I've said many times before, debt can either be your best friend, or your worst enemy.
I owe the banks a LOT of money. I might go for two years without a paycheck living off of borrowed funds. But it doesn't scare me. Why not? Because I know how to control debt. I have respect for it. I use it wisely.
People buy the "debt is bad" thing hook, line, and sinker, cause it's so easy to only look at one side of the coin.
For most people debt is horrible. If you don't know and follow the one very simple principle that can make debt VERY good (USE IT TO BUY THINGS THAT GO UP IN VALUE!) you should avoid it like the plague until you "get it".
I know a few of the guys on here have studied some of the things that I have. They have a pretty good grasp on what they need to be doing (borrow at 10% to make 15% or MORE) but it took me several years after I leaned the basic principals to actually begin to see WHY I was doing what I was doing and the profound power I could harness with the wise use of debt. It takes a long time to fully grasp the magnitude of the power that you possess with this kind of knowledge.
Synergy- you knock debt, yet you say that renting is holding you back from wealth? That makes no sense.
The same people that sold you the whole "debt is bad" argument also told you that it's good to own your own house, didn't they? Wonder why that is? I'll tell you why. It's because over the long haul you will come out WAAAAAY ahead by buying real estate as opposed to renting it.
So why would you be afraid to buy a second house (with borrowed funds) that you rent out to someone else that pays for it? And don't give me the whole "what of the roof caves in and all the pipes burst and all of the tenants decide to move out at once" argument. I've been doing this for more than a decade and have owned in excess of 20 properties over the years and I have never encountered anything close to what the naysayers would like you to believe might happen. Been through several hurricanes, had tenants pour bleach all over the carpets and steal the appliances, but I made it through everything. It's really NOT that bad.
I owe the banks a LOT of money. I might go for two years without a paycheck living off of borrowed funds. But it doesn't scare me. Why not? Because I know how to control debt. I have respect for it. I use it wisely.
People buy the "debt is bad" thing hook, line, and sinker, cause it's so easy to only look at one side of the coin.
For most people debt is horrible. If you don't know and follow the one very simple principle that can make debt VERY good (USE IT TO BUY THINGS THAT GO UP IN VALUE!) you should avoid it like the plague until you "get it".
I know a few of the guys on here have studied some of the things that I have. They have a pretty good grasp on what they need to be doing (borrow at 10% to make 15% or MORE) but it took me several years after I leaned the basic principals to actually begin to see WHY I was doing what I was doing and the profound power I could harness with the wise use of debt. It takes a long time to fully grasp the magnitude of the power that you possess with this kind of knowledge.
Synergy- you knock debt, yet you say that renting is holding you back from wealth? That makes no sense.
The same people that sold you the whole "debt is bad" argument also told you that it's good to own your own house, didn't they? Wonder why that is? I'll tell you why. It's because over the long haul you will come out WAAAAAY ahead by buying real estate as opposed to renting it.
So why would you be afraid to buy a second house (with borrowed funds) that you rent out to someone else that pays for it? And don't give me the whole "what of the roof caves in and all the pipes burst and all of the tenants decide to move out at once" argument. I've been doing this for more than a decade and have owned in excess of 20 properties over the years and I have never encountered anything close to what the naysayers would like you to believe might happen. Been through several hurricanes, had tenants pour bleach all over the carpets and steal the appliances, but I made it through everything. It's really NOT that bad.
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Hey Str8up, how have you been? I haven't seen you in awhile.
Going through a rough time business wise. Just started a new retail concept that I am trying to get off the ground. VERY promising, but a lot of work.Page said:
The RE game has slowed down but I still have most of what I did a couple of years ago. Looking to sell a few properties, but holding the rest for awhile.
Still single and meeting lots of prospects, but nothing to write home about.
You?
Docs
Banned
STr8up, I haven't read this thread in a while. Good to get a kick in the head.
It's only taken me a year, but I have $10,000 in credit cards, unsercured, off only a $30000 income. Being 19, that's pretty good I think.
I already have one step down, and that is my first house, cosigned with my father. I dont' want to mess with this property, my dad would look at me weird. It's a smart buy, if we were to ever sell it, we would be selling at about 150% value.
Anyways, I'm looking at the market in a different city, and I see some potential. I have a few questions to ask, it's late, hopefully you'll get back soon.
1. How much is a typical mortrage payment at 200K and 300K? I want to do cost-comparison against a few units that openly advertise '$x profits/month', and if I know a rough number, I can go yeah or nay. Also including tentants and the what not.
2. I understand the extra $$$ at a close, so if I have 10K off the close at 6%, where do I look to reinvest that at a higher rate to pocket my return?
3. Closing rates/cost $$$?? My dad ran the purchase, I just co-signed.
2 is the required, 1 and 3 if you have time.
Thanks Bud!
It's only taken me a year, but I have $10,000 in credit cards, unsercured, off only a $30000 income. Being 19, that's pretty good I think.
I already have one step down, and that is my first house, cosigned with my father. I dont' want to mess with this property, my dad would look at me weird. It's a smart buy, if we were to ever sell it, we would be selling at about 150% value.
Anyways, I'm looking at the market in a different city, and I see some potential. I have a few questions to ask, it's late, hopefully you'll get back soon.
1. How much is a typical mortrage payment at 200K and 300K? I want to do cost-comparison against a few units that openly advertise '$x profits/month', and if I know a rough number, I can go yeah or nay. Also including tentants and the what not.
2. I understand the extra $$$ at a close, so if I have 10K off the close at 6%, where do I look to reinvest that at a higher rate to pocket my return?
3. Closing rates/cost $$$?? My dad ran the purchase, I just co-signed.
2 is the required, 1 and 3 if you have time.
Thanks Bud!
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Master Don Juan
I'm doing fine. Single, but I have more important things to do.STR8UP said:
College takes a lot of my time, but I do freelance web design. It's an S-quadrant business at this point but it pays a lot of my bills. My university has mentioned the possibility of hiring me as part of their web team, at about $45k a year. Not a lot of money but enough to live on and get into bigger investments.
I'm thinking of jumping into stock and forex right now, though. (I've been learning charting and other technical analysis) I plan to start small, with penny stocks (those really move and can make money in a hurry since it doesn't take much of an increase to double my money if I own a few thousand shares) and work my way up from there. After I get my feet wet in stocks and forex, I may dabble in options.
I plan to do a few tax liens, as well (assuming I can leverage the cash). Any tips for that?
Thats excellent. Keep building that credit and start using it to buy things that can make you wealthy.Docs said:
$80-$100 per $10k roughly, depends upon taxes, insurance, association dues and such.
Anything that pays you more than 6% (but you also have to figure taxes). Doesn't matter what it is, as long as you make more than you spend you come out ahead.
3-5%??
I've dabbled in day trading and stocks in general, and I know there's money to be made. I would definitely try it out and see if it's something that works for you cause it's cheap to get started in and it doesn't require a lot of time.Page said:
Don't know anything about tax liens.
Kev07
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Wow!
amazing thread str8, and good to see that you've stuck around for many years to follow up on the thread. (i have yet to read all the replies, but i will.
anyways, i'm 17, turning 18 in october, still in high school. and to put it shortly, i'm sick of the way my parents think(they are asian) and like typical asian parents, they go ranting about how i need to spend 8 years in college, study all day, and get a degree to make a bunch of money. Well, i suck at studying(i get good grades, but i think i have ADD or something, I can't spend long amounts of time studying), and i've always been interested in the buying/selling life. I've always done buying/selling over the internet, with friends, people, etc etc. and this thread really hit home for me. I recently got hired to a job as a lead generator at home depot, so far, it's improving my business skills, so that's good, also a good income (for a part time job anyway)that i'm saving big time.
My best friend's dad is also a mortgage guy at bank of america, and he's going to follow in his father's footsteps, so i think getting loans shouldn't be too big of a thing for me.
Well since i'm still 17 i can't really do much but once i hit 18 i have some things i'm going to start working on.
1. get a credit card and start building up credit
2. invest in a mutual fund (probably smp500)
that's all i can think of right now, what suggestions would you give someone like me?
amazing thread str8, and good to see that you've stuck around for many years to follow up on the thread. (i have yet to read all the replies, but i will.
anyways, i'm 17, turning 18 in october, still in high school. and to put it shortly, i'm sick of the way my parents think(they are asian) and like typical asian parents, they go ranting about how i need to spend 8 years in college, study all day, and get a degree to make a bunch of money. Well, i suck at studying(i get good grades, but i think i have ADD or something, I can't spend long amounts of time studying), and i've always been interested in the buying/selling life. I've always done buying/selling over the internet, with friends, people, etc etc. and this thread really hit home for me. I recently got hired to a job as a lead generator at home depot, so far, it's improving my business skills, so that's good, also a good income (for a part time job anyway)that i'm saving big time.
My best friend's dad is also a mortgage guy at bank of america, and he's going to follow in his father's footsteps, so i think getting loans shouldn't be too big of a thing for me.
Well since i'm still 17 i can't really do much but once i hit 18 i have some things i'm going to start working on.
1. get a credit card and start building up credit
2. invest in a mutual fund (probably smp500)
that's all i can think of right now, what suggestions would you give someone like me?
