Beautiful Girl, What to do...

[shineonforever]

Okay, so I don't know a whole lot about game theory and all that stuff, but I definitely respect it. I read The Game a few years back too and that really helped me with my self confidence. While I don't follow the techniques and all that, I try to take the concepts to heart. That being said, this situation I'm in has been driving me crazy so I'd thought I'd post on here to see if any of y'all had some advice. Anyway, here we go:

I've known this girl (we'll call her X) for about six months. I think we both consider each other good friends, and I've always gotten the hint from her that she might be interested in pursuing more. It seemed very strong when we were first hanging out, but it's seemed to slow down a bit now. She has always been giggly around me, throws me frequent compliments, laughs at all my jokes, and even 'futured' me saying that she was going to make a custom bandana for me for my birthday, which she remembered (we're both ravers and its a pretty common thing to wear at em).

Initially when I met her she was already seeing someone. They weren't facebook official or anything but they seemed pretty into each other. So, I played it cool and didn't make any moves. (Also not to mention I felt pretty awkward about doing so since I knew she had a significant other.) Though, sometimes I would casually flirt with her but I kept the door open for other girls, not assuming it was anything more than a friendship.

So, about two months ago or so I met this other girl (we'll call her Y) that I was pretty interested in, but probably not as much as the first girl X. At this point I decided to cut my losses (as X was still with her guy), moved on and started pursing Y. Things were going quite well and we were hitting it off. Hooked up a few times and I was starting to like her a bit. Then, one night Y says we should go to a rave with our two friends, I agreed. Well, it turned out girl X was also there. At the rave X saw me dancing with Y and, I could tell, was very jealous. That night she was acting really awkward and was avoiding eye contact with me like the plague.

So, here's the kicker. Two days after that rave girl X messaged me on facebook and basically said "Hey I had to break up with my boyfriend today. It's a good day." then said bye and logged off. Quite random and definitely a big hint I think lol. So, after this I decided to give girl X one more shot. I stopped pursuing girl Y completely, and invited X to a rave the next weekend. I also payed for the tickets, which she knew and accepted the invitation. So in my book, without actually saying it, it was pretty much a date.

So on this date with girl X, amongst conversation she brought up how she's not trying to date anyone and how the breakup was hard, etc. This definitely threw me off guard, and made it seem to me like she wasn't interested. We had a good few conversations on the date and I'd say we connected, but I didn't make a move (which I now regret).

Anyway, so that brings me to now. Last night I was at a party, for a week or so now I've been planning to just flat out say how I feel to her. Basically that I like her and would be interested in pursuing a relationship. Which, I think is the best course of action since we are established friends, at least less awkward than trying to make a move. But, last night at the party I saw girl X with a new guy, and they seemed to be into each other. For me, this was a huge kick in the nuts. It seems now like I may have waited to long and maybe she has moved on, but I'm not really sure.

I guess my question is, should I still say something? Or should I just cut my losses again and move on for good? One thing I can say is that this has been ****ing with my head hardcore. Girl Y is still a cool girl and I would not mind being in a relationship with her either. I've been meaning to say something to girl X in person but those opportunities have been few and far between so I'm starting to think a phone call may be better. Let me know what you guys think, and thank you to those of you who have read through this. Any general input is also definitely appreciated.

 

[Chamber36]

The mistake you made is jumping straight back onto girl X after she broke up with her boyfriend. You should have stuck to girl Y and put girl X on the backburner. Well, I guess you put girl Y on the backburner, so you could always still see what she's up to.

But I would completely forget about girl X. She already knows what you're thinking, you confirmed it with the "date".

 

[Iceberg]

Anyway, so that brings me to now. Last night I was at a party, for a week or so now I've been planning to just flat out say how I feel to her. Basically that I like her and would be interested in pursuing a relationship. Which, I think is the best course of action since we are established friends, at least less awkward than trying to make a move.

Honesty, I think that's the worst course of action.

You can't talk your way into attraction. And you damn sure can't be "interested in a relationship with her" before you've even dated her. That's the last thing a girl wants to hear.

When you're dating a girl (and you're not even dating this girl), you want it to be carefree and fun. Serious conversations about how you like her, and your emotions, and pursuing a relationship with her are just going to make you seem clingy.

Honestly, I think the situation isn't worth pursuing. You've known her for a while, and you didnt make a move. Girls don't sit around for years daydreaming about guys who don't make moves on them. She may have been attracted to you, but if you don't make a move, it fades.

So, no a phone conversation isn't going to help you. How do you envision it happening in your head? You discuss your feelings with each other, make sure everything is nice and safe, and THEN you make a move? That's not how it works. No risk. No reward. You were unwilling to risk making the move, and now your strategy is to continue on the safe path by discussing your feelings instead of the riskier move of SHOWING your feelings.

I hope this helps.

 

[shineonforever]

Thank you guys for the input.

@Chamber36: I agree that probably would have been the better move. At least that definitely would have raised my value more. Word, I'll probably hit up Girl Y, see if anythings still there. Will most likely be looking elsewhere though.

@Iceberg: I mean I see what you're saying, girls definitely wanna see guys that take risks. And yeah, it seems like she's lost interest and it's probably not worth the effort. But, do you really think that saying something straight up is the worst course of action? Maybe I should've been more specific: What I had planned out to say was something more along the lines of "I'm interested and I'm trying to date, how about you?" (i.e. forward, direct, short and to-the-point). To me it seems that saying something straight up takes some balls in itself too, and some girls really appreciate honesty. Plus, if she had said yes that would've been an opportune time to *show* my affection. Though of course, the phone call would screw that up too.

 

[JoelyBoy]

wow, "I'm interested and I'm trying to date, how about you?" is NEVER going to work! don't you wanna be the cool, spontanious, worldy guy that girls like? what you're thinking of doing is none of those things! You need to be brave and alpha i.e calling her up and saying, 'Hey, keep wednesday evening free I'm taking you out' finess her and then make your move. I see how it might be awkward now though as you're in the friend zone and have been for so long, she might not expect it. But in my opinion this would give you more of a chance of success than talking about your feelings down the phone. Give her a fun time so that, even if she does turn you down, she has a fun memory when she thinks about it, not some soppy phonecall which could be a bit creepy. Hope this helps!

 

[GoodForm]

Show with actions not words. Wait for the right moment and go for the kiss and escalate. If it doesn't work just laugh it off. But honestly this girl is not worth your time and interest levels dropping. You should of stuck with previous girl.

 

[floydb25]

You made the mistake of assuming too much, and making things bigger than they are. You dropped a girl who was interested - for one who you only assumed was interested. Not a smart idea. You gave up everything for her - based on a hunch. This girl never showed romantic interest in you. You saw only what you wanted to see, and assumed everything she did was a sign of interest - because YOU were into her. You added everything up in your head, but only as you wanted to see it. That's all I see happening here.

Even if a girl isn't interested in you romantically - she will still flirt, tease, act jealous, and sabotage your intentions with other girls. She might take it up another level, and string you along / tease you with false potential to keep your focus solely on her. She might also act couply, which confuses a LOT of guys. Because, it feels like you're in a relationship - only you're not. Depends on the kind of person she is, but all girls like the attention and knowing they're wanted - and don't want to lose that.

This is why you DON'T become friends with, or hold out hope for someone you're interested in romantically, and the feelings aren't returned. If she wanted to be with you - she would. She shows these "signs", but as soon as you make a move - she rejects you with an excuse. This means she's not interested in you. Someone who is interested won't send mixed signals, or as you perceive them to be. She claims to be not ready - then dates another guy.

There is no such thing as not ready or not looking. While you are waiting for her to be ready - she's not sitting at home wondering if you're the right one for her. Hell no... She's dating around, and trying to find someone she IS into. That's why you don't believe their excuses or claims - follow their actions. Someone who's not ready, not looking, or undecided won't be off dating everyone except for you. This is the first sign of BS you need to look for. If they were so afraid and confused - would they really be dating others? NO.

The third mistake is trying to jump right into a relationship after being friends. You can't skip the dating phase. This is the attraction phase. Your comfort as friends won't translate into a relationship. You must date, and show the sexual, exciting, mysterious side of you. You MUST attract her before a relationship begins. You can't just jump right into a relationship.

Dating is a lot different than friendship, and it works against you to start as friends. You already have an idea of what each other is about; the mystery is gone; the interest is already known; there is no challenge; you aren't an exciting new prospect. You're familiar, nice, and boring (in their eyes)..

This doesn't mean she can't like you as friends, and possibly more. That doesn't mean she wants to date or be in a relationship with you. You can be sexually attracted to a friend, and not date them - if there are no sparks or chemistry. This comes from the newness; the anticipation, challenge, mystery, etc.

But basically, never make someone a priority who only views you as an option (or less). Don't jump at their beck and call, wait around, hold out hope for them, etc, etc. You did great until she became single - then you messed up all over the place by holding her in such high regard, and making her #1. Even messed up with another girl you had as a result. That was very foolish.

Focusing on one person turns them off, as well. When someone knows you want them, and them only - your value automatically decreases in their eyes. You ditched this girl, and tried to jump right into a relationship with the other. This made you too easy and available. Can't do that.

You pretty much did everything wrong, but its nothing to be ashamed of. I used to do the same thing, and it never worked.

 

[Iceberg]

@Iceberg: I mean I see what you're saying, girls definitely wanna see guys that take risks. And yeah, it seems like she's lost interest and it's probably not worth the effort. But, do you really think that saying something straight up is the worst course of action? Maybe I should've been more specific: What I had planned out to say was something more along the lines of "I'm interested and I'm trying to date, how about you?" (i.e. forward, direct, short and to-the-point). To me it seems that saying something straight up takes some balls in itself too, and some girls really appreciate honesty. Plus, if she had said yes that would've been an opportune time to *show* my affection. Though of course, the phone call would screw that up too.

Yeah, but if you two are hanging out, and you lean in for a kiss, that *shows* your affection without having to get into a sappy discussion about it.

Here's the thing - if she wanted to date you, after all this time, you would know. So, of all the weapons in your arsenal, discussion is not going to be the game-changer.

I was not born with talents for getting women. I've been in your shoes before. So, don't think that I'm making fun of you. But it sounds like you have a very limited understanding of how attraction works.

If you're going to sell this woman on the idea of dating you, it's going to come through a moment of passion. Not talking about it. This isn't negotiating the sale of a used car. "I'm interested in dating you. Are you interested in me?" There was a point in my life where I thought this would work too....and it never did. You're making things way too serious. You're asking a girl to make an official decision about you before you've even kissed.

That's why it's easier to start the relationship physically. It keeps things light and fun. After a few months, maybe things get more serious. That's when the girl asks YOU about dating. It feels like you're trying to start things off by making it "official" and THEN (once you know it's safe), going for a kiss.

Hey, do what you want to do. You'll learn your own way, just like everyone else.

 

[ka_mate]

That's why it's easier to start the relationship physically. It keeps things light and fun. After a few months, maybe things get more serious. That's when the girl asks YOU about dating. It feels like you're trying to start things off by making it "official" and THEN (once you know it's safe), going for a kiss.

Hey, do what you want to do. You'll learn your own way, just like everyone else.

I agree with this ^

The difference between 1. Going for a kiss and 2. Asking her for a kiss/relationship is thus...

If you go for a kiss you intentions are clear "I want to kiss you and I'm being a MAN and doing something about it. Sure, you could reject me but that doesn't scare me and it sure as hell won't stop me. I do what I want."

If you go for option 2 your conveyed intentions go along the lines of "I need your permission before making a move sexually with you. I feel the need to verbalise how I feel and need the certainty of knowing 'what we are'. This awkward 'what are we' conversation is a sign of things to come if you start dating me"

Look if you reckon this will work give it a go. Personally, I think you're going about it completely wrong and your odds aren't great. But if by doing this you take a RISK (albeit small) and learn something then I see this as an opportunity for you to take a step in the right direction.

There are some mistakes we need to make in life, it makes the success and learnings that follow so much sweeter and profound.

 

[bigneil]

Here's the thing - if she wanted to date you, after all this time, you would know.

SS should pop up a dialog before every new thread is created reminding the OP of this fact. It would resolve 90% of issues.