Bad situation - How do I handle this

[izza]

While I think that its nice to have a prospective back-up going on so you can fall back on it if you fail with the "primary" girl...I dont think its the end-all be-all solution to deal with the feelings of rejection from the girl you were interested in more.

With my situation, this back-up girl is no where near as interesting or exciting as the one Ive been talking about. I just know that I could probably get her to sleep with me if I put a little bit of effort into it. If I end up facing rejection, it might help me a little bit to see this other girl, but in the end I think its no replacement for friends/family/hobbies to bring you back up.

I think you're right. That makes a lot of sense to me. Have fun with the other girl though

For me, it's just really cool to have all these options, whereas I never believed I had any before. That never does get old, does it? lol, hmm, having options around can be relatively therapeutic

PS Side comment (I don't know where these tangents come from, but I just go with the flow) I just realized that I've met three of my current good friends on the street or the bus in the past year. That is AWESOME!!!

That said, this post is to thank everyone who followed this thread and took the time to post here to give me advice and guidance. Despite my initial blunders, I feel pretty satisfied now with what has happened --- and it probably would NOT have ended up this way without you guys.

You're welcome... thanks for posting. Also, thanks to "I get it!" for discussing this stuff with me.

I'll definately be updating this as new things happen.

Sweet. Looking forward to it.

 

[Serg897]

Igetit, I want to address a few things:

You pushing for a commitment

I did before....but I explicitly said last night that it was no longer important, given how much fun I had with her. I hope that in her mind, this point is null and void.

Breaking her trust by going through her phone

Yes, and Ive already acknowledged it was a bad idea. But once again, I tried to mitigate this issue as much as possible during our conversation, explaining that I realized it isn't my business WHAT she does with this guy, and bringing up my little infidelities while I was seeing her to hammer the point home that it doesn't matter.

You became her therapist

A little bit. But I was also trying to be lighthearted while doing it. And I'm not going to call her for a little while now.

I also think you might be overestimating the influence of Turkish dude. Remember - he is on the other side of the planet, and their history seems to be shaky full of drama as well. And what he can do with calls and texts is limited. I don't know the dynamics or their relationship very well, but I doubt she is going to be "with" him any time soon.

Now, I know what the criticism is going to be. You or somebody else on this board is going to tell me that its completely useless to try to REASON with a woman in the way that I did last night. That this was a futile exercise doomed to failure. Maybe. I'm going to concede that you could easily be right. This really is an emotional roller coaster for her and it really is littered with many twists and turns. She is understandably confused at the moment.

Consider this another case-study in the behavior of women. If it validates what you are saying, good for you. But I'd also love to see you get proven wrong. Regardless, I'm glad that I did it, and I feel like it was a good choice for me PERSONALLY in that I wasn't happy with what I did initially. Now I actually have some piece of mind - and I got to know myself a little better from this experience.

 

[Igetit!]

My only question to you is this:

WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO WC2 FROM THE BEGINNING???

 

[Serg897]

lol.....

Damn good question.

Because I thought I knew what I wanted, then changed my mind, causing a lot of problems in the process.

 

[yuppaz]

WTF kind of sh*tty advice am I seeing on here. You just found out the sweet little chick you have been seeing is all about the turkish c@ck and you are now going to try hard to get back together with her. Man the f*ck up and bail her little ass, GFTOW....seriously. Are you a f*cking doormat or a man?

Honestly man, I forgot who said it, but it is a great quote: "if you don't stand up for something you fall for everything"

You need to have more self respect then this. She disrespected you in a huge way, don't allow it.

 

[izza]

My only question to you is this:

WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO WC2 FROM THE BEGINNING???

Well, I'm going to take a guess. I'm not Serg, so I don't want to speak for him. And let me know if I'm wrong. But if I were in Serg's position, I would find WC2's advice extremely weak and profoundly cowardly. He's saying, "don't bring it up, don't talk about a relationship, she should like you as much or more than you like her etc." That is his advice. Now I'm not saying this guy doesn't get girls, because I'm sure he does if he's on here posting advice. And I'm not saying he's weak, because he obviously has a very forceful will. But I do think this particular piece of advice is weak and that's because people who are strong learn to speak their minds. In fact, people who are happy learn to speak their minds, they learn to ask for what they want, even if a whole bunch of guys on a website claim that women think it's a "major turnoff."

Strong people commit to themselves and to the quality of their interactions. Strong people find ways to ask for what they need. And that is why strong people are much more satisfied with their lives. Again, I'm sure WC2 is very satisfied with his life and all this - I just think this particular piece of advice may be misleading.

So if I were Serg, I would ignore it at first because it's weak.

lol.....

Damn good question.

Because I thought I knew what I wanted, then changed my mind, causing a lot of problems in the process.

It seems to me that you were engaged in a silent tug-of-war with this girl about commitment. Tug-of-wars can be blinding. All we see is what we want: a piece of rope. Meanwhile, what you really wanted probably wasn't really commitment but something deeper. You probably realized that you didn't need commitment to get that deeper thing. That's when you were ready to see this girl without commitment.

Just a guess. Let me know if I'm way off here.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

Izza's post is pretty accurate.

I simply did not feel comfortable completely ignoring what I saw, and trying to continue as if nothing ever happened. This was something that really needed to be addressed. I felt like I wanted something more from this girl, knew I wasnt going to get it, and decided to end things.

Yet, fairly quickly the next day I realized that I wasn't going to be happy with myself with the course of action I chose. After some self-reflection, and consulting friends and the people on this board, I quickly saw that I made a big blunder in throwing out something that I was having a lot of fun with, with a really sweet girl that I like a lot.

The tug of war analogy is good because it captures how the commitment issue was the only thing on my mind at that point. And knowing that she wasn't going to give it, the solution appeared to be easy. Later, I missed the other parts of what we had...the ones that kept me coming back to her.

One of our first "dates" was a beer fest. No joke. It was a random event I found out about at a local zoo, and some friends of mine were going. At that time I had only been seeing her for a few weeks. I took her, and the whole time she had a huge perma-grin on her face. She radiated outward the fact that she was having fun, and it was that simple thing that made me realize I wanted to see this girl again. Simply our great capacity to have fun together.

So what if this guy was texting her. She had told me about him and the issues surrounding him before. And I had seen other girls myself. Since we were never really together, I quickly saw that I didn't need that kind of drama.

One of the really big things I have learned from this experience is the importance of communication, as has been discussed many times on this thread.

So. A full day has passed with no contact from her. I'm hoping she will contact me before then, but the plan is to wait a few more days until I get back to school and then contacting her to try to see her again sometime next week.

 

[izza]

Serg,

Although I completely support your desire for a relationship, I cannot recommend highly enough that you check out the videos recommended here. Just FYI, I'm not posting them to change your mind but simply to give you another perspective on relationship as property:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153556

If the first two interest you, I promise you that all six (available for free download on the guy's site) were extremely eye-opening for me yesterday.

Best wishes,
Izza

 

[izza]

Also, thanks for posting your experience. This girl does sound fun

 

[tincanman99]

First off this girl did not know that you snooped on her cell phone till you blabbed. She may have suspected that you did it but there is no way she know because the phone does not track this kind of information. I was an electrical engineer and used to work on these devices.

You blabbed and just confirmed what she thought. So thats first.

Second, you need to back off. Total one-itis. I recognize the signs. You are way to hung up on this girl. Get on with your life, date other women, do your hobbies, whatever.. just dont let your life revolve around her.

Third, you need to keep your mouth shut about your feelings. In my experience telling a girl you like her gets you jack. I just did this a few months ago with someone. You know what it got me - she totally disappeared not returning my calls and emails. By you pushing for a relationship or committment she is in control NOT YOU. The person that cars least about a relationship controls it. Right now that person is HER.

Show her that you are fine and get on with your life. If you continue doing what you are doing you will have nothing but drama. You dont have a relationship with this woman. This is someone you know. The fact you have been seeing her for 3 months and still has not committed tells me she is not ready to commit and may never either.

Sorry to be so harsh but these are the exact same mistakes I have made in the past.

 

[Serg897]

tincanman, I appreciate the honest response, and admittedly this girl has recently been on my mind a lot - perhaps too much. I was expecting a post like this sooner, to be honest.

But something tells me you haven't looked that closely at what Ive been saying recently.

1.) Im not pushing for a relationship anymore. Ive had a mind-set change, and I want to keep seeing her to have fun and for the sex, because I really enjoy her company. Nothing more.

2.) This girl has brought up feelings-talk herself before, and I'm not one to babble away excessively about that.

3.) I'm taking time away from her, and going decent amounts of time without contacting her, just because I WANT to concentrate on other areas of my life without getting too hung up on this girl.

4.) I fully intend to start seeing other girls regardless, and Im not an idiot. I made a lot of mistakes, and I'm fully prepared to accept losing this girl because of them and never look back.

 

[Igetit!]

Second, you need to back off. Total one-itis. I recognize the signs. You are way to hung up on this girl. Get on with your life, date other women, do your hobbies, whatever.. just dont let your life revolve around her.

Third, you need to keep your mouth shut about your feelings. In my experience telling a girl you like her gets you jack. I just did this a few months ago with someone. You know what it got me - she totally disappeared not returning my calls and emails. By you pushing for a relationship or committment she is in control NOT YOU. The person that cars least about a relationship controls it. Right now that person is HER.

EXACTLY. Serg897,this is what I myself,and WC2 have been trying to tell you from the beginning. Look man,do you think it is a coincedence that us random guys,from different parts of the country,with different life experiences and experiences with women keep telling you the exact same thing? You think it's by chance that we all keep telling you that you shouldn't "express you feelings" to a woman? Look at what Tincanman99 said about telling a girl you like her. He said it gets you jack. Well,isn't that exactly what you getting from this girl now? For one second,forget about how you want things to be,and look at how thing ACTUALLY ARE. Aren't they exactly the way we said they'd be? If I'm wrong,tell me.

You dont have a relationship with this woman. This is someone you know. The fact you have been seeing her for 3 months and still has not committed tells me she is not ready to commit and may never be.

Wow. He said you don't have a relationship with this woman,she's just someone you know. Wow,I've never heard it put like that before.

1.)I'm not pushing for a relationship anymore. I've had a mind-set change,and I want to keep seeing her to have fun and for the sex,because I really enjoy her company. Nothing more.

Man this is a contradiction if I've ever heard one. So let me get this straight:You don't want a relationship with her,you just want to sleep with her,and hang out and have fun with her because you enjoy her company. But this is all you want nothing more. Well,what else is there? If you hang out,go places,do things,enjoy each other's company,and have sex with this girl,isn't that a relationship? You're in denial. You want the definition of the word "relationship" without the word relationship.

2.)This girl has brought up feelings-talk herself before,and I'm not the one to babble excessively about that.

This is something you do not understand. It doesn't matter who brought it up,if you participated it's the same as if you started the conversation yourself. If she started talking about feelings,then you got sucked into it,then SHE has the stronger frame,which to women,is another turnoff.

That's three guys (me,WC2 and Tincanman99) telling you the same thing. I'm not going to knock Izza just because we disagree on a few things,I believe his points are valid,just not here in this particular situation.

You turned down WC2's advice and decided you go your own route. You're a grown man,so if that's what you want to do,it's your right to do so.

So,are you happy with the way things turned out so far?

 

[WC2]

I don't think you should ignore the fact that she's sweet talking some other dude while you're trying to get up in her.

However, I don't think a real man needs to snoop around on a ladies cell phone either.

If you want to let her know that you were snooping around on her cell and saw some guy telling her to lick his nuts, fine. Do it.

The bottom line is that you aren't really in a position to 'care' about what this woman is doing with other men. She's single and available to mingle.

You're welcome to "speak your mind" as izza says, however sometimes you need to think first if what you formulate in your mind is actually sensible.

Expecting a woman not to talk to other men while she is single is not sensible. Just because you're seeing her, doesn't mean she's not allowed to see other dudes. Same goes for you.

It's the game of being a single human being. You either learn it or you fail miserably. Here you have failed miserably because you expect mutual feelings from someone who isn't ready to give them to you.

So go ahead, speak your mind and get mad at this woman for talking to another man. Just know in advance it will not a do a damn thing for you or a damn thing to get back at her. If anything, she'll probably laugh inside at your insecurity and jealousy. Even worse, you're blaming someone else for your own mistakes and you will never learn.

 

[Serg897]

Look at what Tincanman99 said about telling a girl you like her. He said it gets you jack. Well,isn't that exactly what you getting from this girl now? For one second,forget about how you want things to be,and look at how thing ACTUALLY ARE. Aren't they exactly the way we said they'd be? If I'm wrong,tell me.

The way things actually are....is unclear at this point. We haven't talked in almost two days. Admittedly, it doesnt feel good that she is doing this - so my honest prediction now is that I have PROBLABLY lost her. We'll see. Eventually, I'll reestablish contact if she doesn't, and we'll find out soon enough.

You don't want a relationship with her,you just want to sleep with her,and hang out and have fun with her because you enjoy her company. But this is all you want nothing more. Well,what else is there? If you hang out,go places,do things,enjoy each other's company,and have sex with this girl,isn't that a relationship? You're in denial. You want the definition of the word "relationship" without the word relationship.

That's the curious thing about it, isn't it? All this time we have been hanging out together essentially as a couple! Going places together, hanging out with other friends and their girlfriends together, having sex, etc. This is why I was baffled as to why she didn't feel like she wanted the "girlfriend" label - she essentially HAD it.

I want to return to that state of affairs. Even if it is label-less. I think its hugely misleading to call her just "someone I know" given that.

So,are you happy with the way things turned out so far?

I'm happy with the course of action I have chosen. Maybe she will come back, maybe she wont. Either way, Ive learned something.

 

[Serg897]

So go ahead, speak your mind and get mad at this woman for talking to another man. Just know in advance it will not a do a damn thing for you or a damn thing to get back at her. If anything, she'll probably laugh inside at your insecurity and jealousy. Even worse, you're blaming someone else for your own mistakes and you will never learn.

WC2, you are not paying attention. Actually read what I said to her - don't post ill-informed stuff otherwise.

 

[WC2]

WC2, you are not paying attention. Actually read what I said to her - don't post ill-informed stuff otherwise.

Serg, in all honesty I don't really care what you said to her.

My post was more in response to Izza's than yours.

I advise you don't come on these forums asking for advice and not only not follow it, but tell others what or what not to post.

I'm not like a lot of the guys here who will go on a powertrip, but you should know that you're the one getting the help here, not us. We are here helping out others.

Don't expect anymore advice from people like me if you're going to be a wiseass.

 

[Igetit!]

The way things actually are....is unclear at this point. We haven't talked in almost two days. Admittedly, it doesnt feel good that she is doing this - so my honest prediction now is that I have PROBLABLY lost her. We'll see. Eventually, I'll reestablish contact if she doesn't, and we'll find out soon enough.

This is just flat out denial. You're "unclear" about things at this point? You "probably" lost her? This is starting to get ridiculous.

All this time we have been hanging out together essentially as a couple! Going places together, hanging out with other friends and their girlfriends together, having sex, etc. This is why I was baffled as to why she didn't feel like she wanted the "girlfriend" label - she essentially HAD it.

I don't know how many times this has to be said,but I'll say it again:THE REASON SHE DIDN'T WANT THE "GIRLFRIEND" LABEL WAS BECAUSE YOU PUSHED FOR A RELATIONSHIP. You say that that is over with,and you're no longer pushig for one. That's YOU. You're the one over it. You had the change of mind. That's YOU. You can't speak for her. Just because YOU had a change of mind doesn't mean she sees you in a different light. My guess is that she probably still sees you that way she did in the past. You want her to see you differently,but she doesn't trust you. Remember the cell phone incident? You breached her trust,but now all of the sudden,you want her to "trust" that you've changed and are no longer after a commitment from her? Doesn't work that way. It takes time for trust to be rebuilt,and frankly I don't think she interested in putting her social/dating life on hold while the trust is being re-established.

I want to return to that state of affairs. Even if it is label-less. I think its hugely misleading to call her just "someone I know" given that.

Now this is pitiful. You're not being honest here. This is just flat out insecurity. You started out wanting a relationship,now you say you no longer want one,you just want things to return to this "labeless" thing you had. In other words,if you can't have want you want (the relatonship),you're willing to settle for anything. Be honest man. If you want a relationship,just say you want a relationship. It's not like you're fooling anybody here.

I'm happy with the course of action I have chosen. Maybe she will come back, maybe she wont. Either way, Ive learned something.

I didn't ask if you were happy with your course of action. I asked if you were happy with the current results you are now experiencing.

 

[izza]

Serg, in all honesty I don't really care what you said to her.

My post was more in response to Izza's than yours.

I advise you don't come on these forums asking for advice and not only not follow it, but tell others what or what not to post.

I'm not like a lot of the guys here who will go on a powertrip, but you should know that you're the one getting the help here, not us. We are here helping out others.

Don't expect anymore advice from people like me if you're going to be a wiseass.

I don't think you should ignore the fact that she's sweet talking some other dude while you're trying to get up in her.

However, I don't think a real man needs to snoop around on a ladies cell phone either.

If you want to let her know that you were snooping around on her cell and saw some guy telling her to lick his nuts, fine. Do it.

The bottom line is that you aren't really in a position to 'care' about what this woman is doing with other men. She's single and available to mingle.

You're welcome to "speak your mind" as izza says, however sometimes you need to think first if what you formulate in your mind is actually sensible.

Expecting a woman not to talk to other men while she is single is not sensible. Just because you're seeing her, doesn't mean she's not allowed to see other dudes. Same goes for you.

It's the game of being a single human being. You either learn it or you fail miserably. Here you have failed miserably because you expect mutual feelings from someone who isn't ready to give them to you.

So go ahead, speak your mind and get mad at this woman for talking to another man. Just know in advance it will not a do a damn thing for you or a damn thing to get back at her. If anything, she'll probably laugh inside at your insecurity and jealousy. Even worse, you're blaming someone else for your own mistakes and you will never learn.

Hey WC2,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I've found a lot of people on this community just post stuff and then vanish when it's the discussion afterward that really benefits everyone the most. So I'm glad you're following the thread - especially considering our different viewpoints, I benefit so much more from this so thanks.

And you've got a great point, speaking your mind when what you're about to say doesn't make sense isn't always the wisest course. And you've got it precisely, it is a real skill to learn to the speak your mind appropriately and powerfully, rather than just saying stuff that doesn't make sense.

I agree with you as well on two points: I think Serg should be aware that this girl is still sorting out her feelings for Turkish dude but also, ideally, would probably benefit from being less hung up about it. She's been extremely upfront about what she's ready for and what she's not.

So I don't think the jealousy is a good thing - that said, I just think that Serg might as well be honest about what he wants, even if we don't think it's ideal. Cuz I don't think he was saying just nonsense, but something that was important to him (even if it is probably not ideal). So yeah, stuff like that is important to work out with the girl. There's nothing wrong with just talking about that stuff with the girl. They don't hold that against us, we all have different needs and we need to talk about it. That is just what mature people do.

But you're right, I don't think the desire Serg had was ideal. But that's ok. I've got lots of those. And I did want to let Serg know that it was ok. But you're right, and I think you made some really important points about how Serg could aim higher.

I'm a bit surprised you think he's being a wise@ss. Maybe we're reading what he says differently. But I do think it's ok to come to a site, ask for advice and not follow it. At the end of the day, everyone needs to do what seems right, even if it's frustrating for the advice givers. He needs to be the judge of what's right, though I respect your frustration.

I like your style, and I'm curious to hear what you think.

Igetit!: I love your style too - you're awesome.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

Igetit, let me be clear about something.

Its not like Im trying to ignore what you say. Ive already said you could easily be right about this. I KNOW that my situation with her is now littered with drama and issues of trust.

This, particularly, makes me think:

In other words,if you can't have want you want (the relatonship),you're willing to settle for anything. Be honest man. If you want a relationship,just say you want a relationship. It's not like you're fooling anybody here.

I tell myself that I want to return to what we had because I was having fun with her. I think you're right. Since I didnt get the relationship, Im settling for the old status-quo.

I tell myself that Im looking at it logically, saying that we both have grand plans for the future and that commitment between the two of us wouldnt make sense. But really, I just miss her. This would have been a good mind-set in the beggining, but with all my transgressions and mistakes lately now it might not be enough salvage this situation.

I didn't ask if you were happy with your course of action. I asked if you were happy with the current results you are now experiencing.

Right now? No. I'm not. I wish she would have contacted me by now. A text, anything. It hasn't happened, and my gut feeling is telling me its not likely she is going to want to see me again.

Frankly, I'm a little sick of it. It will almost be a relief once I finally get a yes or a no from her. This is starting to become a huge headache for me again. I'm trying to resist the temptation to send her a text today, because I KNOW I have to detach myself.

But that's okay. Ive dealt with break-ups and rejection many times before, and this time will be no different. And as I've repeated many times before, its the experience that counts. I wont be so pushy about a relationship next time.

So, thanks for the posts and the advice, Igetit. Its appreciated.

 

[Serg897]

I'm a bit surprised you think he's being a wise@ss. Maybe we're reading what he says differently. But I do think it's ok to come to a site, ask for advice and not follow it. At the end of the day, everyone needs to do what seems right, even if it's frustrating for the advice givers. He needs to be the judge of what's right, though I respect your frustration.

Exactly. I took WC2's advice into consideration, and decided to reject it, perhaps at my own peril.

I do appreciate it, though.