Bad situation - How do I handle this

[izza]

Let me see if I got this straight. You're dealing with the emotions of "the breakup",with a girl who never made a commitment to you. O..kay.
However,you do realize why this girl never committed to being in a relationship with you,don't you? It was because she "sensed" that you wanted one. Do you get that? She wouldn't commit to you because she knew you wanted to commit to her.

I find this, what I call "voodoo", unhelpful. There is no point in trying to not want a relationship if you want a relationship. I know people on here say this all the time, but I'd just like to clear this up: There is nothing wrong with looking for a relationship. It does not turn women off. You ever hear that joke about lesbians? What does a lesbian bring on a second date? Look it up.

Anyway, point is, you need to focus on what you want and then find a girl who fits it. Screw these ideas of "pretending not to want a relationship." If that's what you want, just say so. I know guys who tell women they're interested in that they're looking for a relationship. It's fine.

Of course if you've just met a girl and you say you'd like a relationship with her right away, ok that's creepy. But there's nothing wrong with telling a girl that you're looking for something exclusive.

I admire that you're looking for a relationship - I think we have a chance to build so many profound parts of ourselves there. On the other hand, the prism of dating is a great way to view the infinite variety of mankind... it can be hard to be exclusive, I think. But that point is, focus on what you want, be upfront and honest about it. If a girl doesn't dig it, I'm sure she's very nice and wonderful but perhaps she's not what you're looking for right now. And that's fine.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

I admire that you're looking for a relationship - I think we have a chance to build so many profound parts of ourselves there. On the other hand, the prism of dating is a great way to view the infinite variety of mankind... it can be hard to be exclusive, I think. But that point is, focus on what you want, be upfront and honest about it. If a girl doesn't dig it, I'm sure she's very nice and wonderful but perhaps she's not what you're looking for right now. And that's fine.

Thanks for the posts Izza. The point above kinda opened a new perspective for me. After reading what all the other guys had said, I was almost feeling like there was something wrong with me seeking a little bit more of a commitment.

The point about communication is also interesting to me. However, I'm not sure if you're entirely right when you say our communication sucked. I DID know about this guy. I DID know that she might have some unresolved feelings, because she told me. The problem was I didn't want to bring up these topics too much --- the reason should be obvious. I didn't want to be overbearing with her.

I'm just unsure of what I want right now. My gut feeling tells me that if I call her again after a little while she would still be receptive to hanging out with me. I could be wrong, but I judge from her actions -- she was always extremely amorous and affectionate every time I was with her, even the night before I talked with her and discovered the text messages. I would bet my left nut she is missing me at least a little bit right now, considering how fast I ended it yesterday. Perhaps I was a bit too hasty, but I explicitly told her not to call me or text me again (referring to the FIRST time I "broke up" with her)...unless she was ready for some commitment. So, chances are essentially zero I'll hear from her again if I don't contact her.

The issue is ---- do I really want to see her again? I'm torn between how much I enjoyed my time with her, the fact that I thought she was adorable and gave me warm fuzzy feelings inside, and the overall commitment problem.

The only other option is to forget and move on.

 

[Igetit!]

Thanks for the posts Izza. The point above kinda opened a new perspective for me. After reading what all the other guys had said, I was almost feeling like there was something wrong with me seeking a little bit more of a commitment.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship/commitment with a girl. I never meant to give the impression that you shouldn't want a meaningful relationship. The point of my replies was to explain to you why you couldn't get a commitment from this girl. And I still stand by what I said,because it's true. I agree with Izza in that there's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship. The part where I disagree with him is when he says that a woman thinking you want a relationship will not be a turnoff for her.
If the woman is in her late 20s,mid to late 30s,then yeah,I don't think a guy saying he's looking for a relationship will be a turnoff,however,you still need to focus on generating chemistry in her FIRST,then she'll be more receptive to a relationship because she'll know her emotional need (need for passion in a relationship) will be filled.

Perhaps I was a bit too hasty, but I explicitly told her not to call me or text me again (referring to the FIRST time I "broke up" with her)...unless she was ready for some commitment.

Imo,this was a mistake. This sounds like a ultimatum to me. Nobody wants to be threatened/ultimated into a relationandship. And in the end,look at her behavior. She gets this ultimatum from him,then she becomes standoffish.
She's standoffish with him,the guy who wants a commitment,but to the guy who says,"I want you baby",and tells her to suck.....well you know what he told her to suck,to this guy,she's all giddy over his messages,sending text back and forth,and pining away over him,and he's thousands of miles away.

This is just how women are. Hey,I don't like it,but this is just the way it is.
Women are attracted to womanizers,not to relationship material guys.

 

[alnite]

So Ive been seeing this girl for about 3 months now. Its been pretty good, though she hasnt wanted to commit to anything and has sometimes acted a little stand-offish from time to time.

Now I know why.

I was over her house last night and this morning when she woke up to shower/get ready for class I did some snooping on her cell phone.

I saw some pretty interesting texts. They are from a dude, saying things like "I want you baby" , and "I want you to suck daddy's ****" etc.

Thing is, I know who this dude is. One of her replies gave it away. He is a turkish exchange student who no longer lives here anymore. She was seeing him for a long time last year before she met me, until he ran off back to Turkey - this is according to the story she once told me. The reply that gave it away was something like "I would come visit you in Turkey " or some nonsense like that.

So...this explains everything. It explains why she has these on and off cycles where she sometimes backs away and seems distant. Obviously, things are still going on between the two.

So - what to do here?

I didnt even confront her about it this morning. I need to do some thinking about it.

Personally, I think I should break up with her tonight. This kind of **** is unacceptable.

Well? What would you all do?

Oneitis alert! A girl's life shouldn't occupy even 1% of your brain activities. You should focus on more positive things, such as, having other chicks to keep you busy.

snooping @ her cell. lol. that's terrible, dude. you were desperate there.

 

[vagrant]

At the age of 21, I would suggest not to push for any kind of relationship. What you should do is to really keep looking around before you stay with one that you can be fully content with and be ultimately happy.

The girl you're seeing is nothing but headache for you. You don't have to get rid of her if the only problem for you is that she wont commit to you. That's fine as long as you're getting some. But, either way you guys are not really together so I'd suggest you to keep hanging out with other chicks.

 

[Serg897]

I know I have to get rid of my emotional attachment for this girl and see others. That much is clear.

However, I think I might make an attempt to go back for some more sex, and to possibly salvage what I had before. If you guys have any advice on this, specifically WHEN and HOW, feel free to give it. After some reflection it seems that I might have thrown this away for no good reason. I made some blunders, but ultimately I think I learned from this experience.

If it doesn't work, more reason to forget about her.

 

[izza]

There's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship/commitment with a girl. I never meant to give the impression that you shouldn't want a meaningful relationship. The point of my replies was to explain to you why you couldn't get a commitment from this girl. And I still stand by what I said,because it's true. I agree with Izza in that there's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship. The part where I disagree with him is when he says that a woman thinking you want a relationship will not be a turnoff for her.
If the woman is in her late 20s,mid to late 30s,then yeah,I don't think a guy saying he's looking for a relationship will be a turnoff,however,you still need to focus on generating chemistry in her FIRST,then she'll be more receptive to a relationship because she'll know her emotional need (need for passion in a relationship) will be filled.

I get it - From reading your post, I am pretty sure that we agree on this stuff. I am particularly impressed when you talk about needs and different desires at different ages. I think that if we appear to disagree, it's because language and particular words are tripping us up. I'm glad to hear you say that relationships are valuable and wonderful. They are, if you're ready for them, and that's what you're looking for.

Now this business of saying you want a relationship or not. I'm pretty sure we actually agree, but are talking about different contexts. First, let me clarify that my advice is for this guy to tell women that he's looking for a relationship in general, but of course be clear that he may be looking for a relationship with HER, but only if she meets certain criteria. That is not manipulation or a technique, that is, I hope, just being honest. I think we can agree that saying right off the bat "I want to be exclusive with you" is - I don't know about a turnoff - it is just not easy to understand, and liable to be misinterpreted as neediness.

Two, of course a desire for a relationship should not come from neediness. Everybody should have lots of sources of emotional support before they enter a relationship. A relationship is not a solid, predictable source of support. Family and good friends are, though. I see hundreds of people killing themselves because they don't know the difference between romance and friends. I agree with you, it's a turnoff to seek the kind of support and love you get from friends in a romance. That is a turnoff because it's just not healthy.

Now with these preludes, it is a "turnoff" for a well-adjusted, successful guy who is 21 to say he's looking for a relationship in general? I think that some 21 y.o. girls won't be ready or looking for a relationship. So yeah, some will just be honest and say "that's not what I'm looking for." That's not a turnoff, that's incompatibility. But I agree, he will be incompatible with a lot of people. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Better to find out at the beginning than later on. Again, communication can save a LOT of pain. If you're looking for a relationship, you want girls with these expectations to be "turned-off". It is extremely healthy to filter by what you're looking for.

But I do think it's kind of an unfair stereotype to say that no girls at age 21 are looking for a relationship. I don't think you believe that, I just believe that we need to be clear on that point.

Women are attracted to womanizers,not to relationship material guys.

I'm really sorry to hear you believe that. I guess that is a common belief our days, and very plausible, especially if you go down to a frat house or certain local bars. There are all sorts of hot girls with all sorts of very kind guys who feel so sad they lack in compassion. They end up in rather destructive rendez-vous. But that's ok, we all need love. I just think they don't know a better way.

But believe me, you might think taking on the traits of guys who lack compassion might help you get women. I mean, give it a try, see if it makes you happy. But to be honest, I've realized that getting women is easy. So you might as well just do it the way you want.

Ever think about why there's such a multiplicity of dating advice out there? How are guys doing such a variety of things that are all working? Well the answer is: getting women is easy. So you might as well do what makes you happy.

IGI - do you know the punchline to this joke: what does a lesbian bring on a second date?

All my friends who are girls are currently attracted to dorky, sweet guys who are definitely relationship material. Then again, I filter out of my life people who are so unhealthy as to be a womanizer, or unhealthy enough to be the woman. Life is too short to have people with so little self-love in my life.

A last thought - it's too bad you think that the most attractive thing you can do is emulate the womanizers. In my experience, the most attractive thing I do is talk openly and maturely about what I need from people and about sex. When I think a girl is sexy, I tell her what about her behavior or choices makes her sexy to me. I turn girls who are afraid of showing too much attraction to me... suddenly they're chasing me. And why not, mature honesty about how I feel - rather than game playing is so much sexier than the manipulative bull**** this site tries to sell you.

Nice guys who hide all their sexual feelings finish last. But ethical guys who tell women the truth finish first.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

the answer is: getting women is easy.

I realize that more and more now and days. Well said.

 

[izza]

Thanks for the posts Izza. The point above kinda opened a new perspective for me. After reading what all the other guys had said, I was almost feeling like there was something wrong with me seeking a little bit more of a commitment.

You're welcome - thanks for sharing your life and giving your feedback. I promise I am learning from your experience and thanks for letting me know my experience is giving you a different perspective. But you're right... if you post on here, expect to hear "oneitus alert" a lot lol. That's just the nature of this board. But don't let the jealous get to you. You have to learn to do what feels right and do what you want.

The point about communication is also interesting to me. However, I'm not sure if you're entirely right when you say our communication sucked. I DID know about this guy. I DID know that she might have some unresolved feelings, because she told me.

Awesome - my bad. I probably misread your post.

The problem was I didn't want to bring up these topics too much --- the reason should be obvious. I didn't want to be overbearing with her.

Yeah, it's hard to communicate about that stuff without appearing to put pressure on her for what you want. That's really hard. I'm still convinced that it's a communication skill - I think you will be able to speak your mind better in the future. But for now, believe me, I understand how hard it is to be a good communicator. The myth is that it's easy. The truth is that it's much, much harder than you'd think. But it sounds like you had some good lines of communication there. And it sounds like your relationship was taking a hit because there were other lines of communication that would have been good to open but neither of you were ready to open them. I would bet this need for communication about your expectations preceded your James Bond impression on her cell phone.

I'm just unsure of what I want right now.

Nothing wrong with that. I really admire your honesty.

My gut feeling tells me that if I call her again after a little while she would still be receptive to hanging out with me. I could be wrong, but I judge from her actions -- she was always extremely amorous and affectionate every time I was with her, even the night before I talked with her and discovered the text messages. I would bet my left nut she is missing me at least a little bit right now, considering how fast I ended it yesterday. Perhaps I was a bit too hasty, but I explicitly told her not to call me or text me again (referring to the FIRST time I "broke up" with her)...unless she was ready for some commitment. So, chances are essentially zero I'll hear from her again if I don't contact her.

The issue is ---- do I really want to see her again? I'm torn between how much I enjoyed my time with her, the fact that I thought she was adorable and gave me warm fuzzy feelings inside, and the overall commitment problem.

I think that if you have a good level of communication with her, you should feel comfortable calling her up and pretty much saying exactly what you just said. I wouldn't omit a word of that - except perhaps the left nut thing. Call her up, tell her you're unsure if you did the right thing. Tell her what commitment means to you, tell her you like her a lot, how commitment meets a need that you have. Tell her you're unsure what to do. Tell her you don't want to pressure her into a relationship if that's not what she's ready for right now. Float the possibility that even though you like her a lot, you may be incompatible. Just try to negotiate something that meets both your needs. If you can't, then you will probably end up agreeing to break up. That said, most of the time, what people need is just good communication. Most marital counselors will tell you that a good airing of feelings actually solves most "problems." That should tell you that communication or lack thereof was often the problem in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that 3 months is a turning point for a lot of relationships. Try to be sensitive, that's the point where a lot of people are feeling uncertain about what they want. She might not know right away so give her time to figure it out and get back to you.

Izza

 

[Igetit!]

I agree with the majority of what Izza has said,however,I don't agree with all of it. Telling this girl you like her? That would be a big mistake in my opinion. In fact,out of all the post and threads I've seen and read here,I can't recall one where a guy who was the first one to express his feelings to a girl had a happy ending. But hey,I'm not going to tell you not to do it. Go
ahead and tell her how you feel,I'd love to be wrong about this. I'm serious.

What I'd really like to know is how old is this girl? Knowing her age will better help to determine where she is in life. Like most women 18-23 are still in party mode,23-27 they may be looking for a LTR,and 28 and beyond,they're looking for hubby. Of course,there are exceptions,but generally,this is the case.

My only concern is this:Inspite of all the advice given to you from everyone,her age,and the fact that at one time she obviously did have feelings for you,despite all that,I just don't think all the damage incurred between the two of you will be so easily overlooked by her.

However,I think I might attempt to go back for more sex,and possibly salvage what I had before.

Now this is something I've GOT to see. If you pull this one off,then I'm coming to you for ALL my relationship advice. I say that because you snooping around with her cell phone caused a breach of trust for her. And trust is not something easily repaired.

You seem pretty determined to get back together with this girl. I actually hope you succeed. It's just that you have so much damage control to work through,it'd be much simpler just to move on.

 

[Serg897]

I think that if you have a good level of communication with her, you should feel comfortable calling her up and pretty much saying exactly what you just said. I wouldn't omit a word of that - except perhaps the left nut thing. Call her up, tell her you're unsure if you did the right thing. Tell her what commitment means to you, tell her you like her a lot, how commitment meets a need that you have. Tell her you're unsure what to do. Tell her you don't want to pressure her into a relationship if that's not what she's ready for right now. Float the possibility that even though you like her a lot, you may be incompatible. Just try to negotiate something that meets both your needs. If you can't, then you will probably end up agreeing to break up. That said, most of the time, what people need is just good communication. Most marital counselors will tell you that a good airing of feelings actually solves most "problems." That should tell you that communication or lack thereof was often the problem in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that 3 months is a turning point for a lot of relationships. Try to be sensitive, that's the point where a lot of people are feeling uncertain about what they want. She might not know right away so give her time to figure it out and get back to you.

This is probably the best advice I have seen on this thread so far. This is definately what feels like the right thing to do - it would definately give me resolution to all this regardless of the outcome and I'm sure I would feel much better.

Therefore, its what I'm going to do. I feel like I was a bit too hasty in doing what I did, and while I have definately wanted a little commitment - I don't necessarily need it. I have had great times with this girl and I think now I might want to continue. Looking at it logically, it also doesn't make much sense to push for a relationship at this point in my life anyway, especially with her -- given that I have plans to go somewhere else for graduate school, and she has some big long term plans for the future as well...peacecorp, etc. (as we have discussed....communication!.) I just made a big blunder the other day and I'm going to try to salvage it.

Meanwhile if I continue seeing her with no strings attached, I can see other girls and see if someone better comes along.

Overall, I think Ive found the right course. I'll post again and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Serg897]

Igetit, the girl is 22. She is a little less than a year older than me.

Telling this girl you like her? That would be a big mistake in my opinion. In fact,out of all the post and threads I've seen and read here,I can't recall one where a guy who was the first one to express his feelings to a girl had a happy ending.

Funny thing is, SHE has been to one to bring up a conversation like this before, NOT me.

She once asked me while we were in bed together - it must have been less than two weeks ago - "Why do you like me?" She actually wanted me to list out reasons! lol. I had fun with that one, and I asked the same thing from her.

I feel like given this dynamic we have, it might acceptable to have a conversation like the one Izza describes.

My only concern is this:Inspite of all the advice given to you from everyone,her age,and the fact that at one time she obviously did have feelings for you,despite all that,I just don't think all the damage incurred between the two of you will be so easily overlooked by her.

You seem pretty determined to get back together with this girl. I actually hope you succeed.

We'll see what happens. I don't know for sure if its going to work, but I'll let you know guys know.

 

[izza]

This is probably the best advice I have seen on this thread so far. This is definately what feels like the right thing to do - it would definately give me resolution to all this regardless of the outcome and I'm sure I would feel much better.

Therefore, its what I'm going to do. I feel like I was a bit too hasty in doing what I did, and while I have definately wanted a little commitment - I don't necessarily need it. I have had great times with this girl and I think now I might want to continue. Looking at it logically, it also doesn't make much sense to push for a relationship at this point in my life anyway, especially with her -- given that I have plans to go somewhere else for graduate school, and she has some big long term plans for the future as well...peacecorp, etc. (as we have discussed....communication!.) I just made a big blunder the other day and I'm going to try to salvage it.

Meanwhile if I continue seeing her with no strings attached, I can see other girls and see if someone better comes along.

Overall, I think Ive found the right course. I'll post again and I'll let you know how it goes.

I get it - I agree there are certain perils to telling a girl that you like her. And I know in the back of your mind you have the stereotypical "chump" whipping-post, pathetic guy. I agree that if you're that guy, telling a girl you like her - especially as some sort of ploy - will not work. Saying it the wrong way can be ineffective. That said, I still haven't found anything more powerful in my life than the SOI. Look up Juggler on youtube and check out his short videos.

To repeat, nothing I have ever done with women is as powerful as telling her I think she's sexy with a good reason.

That said, Igetit, I just want to make sure - aren't you forgetting that he's been with her for three months? When do you think it's ok to say he likes her, after they've been married for 20 years? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just don't understand - particularly in light of the fact that I called a few girls sexy who were on the fence, and they're still hounding me to this day. Now that's not bragging, because it's actually a failure on my part to tell them why I can't date them right now. But I just mean to say that it's powerful.

Serg - I suppose some will measure the success of what you do by whether or not it keeps this particular girl. But since I believe getting women is easy, I measure success by how authentic you are in your interactions with women. It seems to me that when you said "I have found the right course of action for me" - you have already succeeded. Knowing yourself is success. After that, dating is so much easier. That said, I hope you have a good honest conversation with her. I suspect you already communicate very well and that she admires you for it. My guess is that she likes you, and that if you're completely honest, but only if you're really, really honest, you will be able to salvage this pretty easily. But in any case, you have already figured out something about who you are. Congratulations. That is the real victory here.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

Izza, your post is inspiring. I definately will NOT measure my success based on whether or not I get her back, rather on what I learn from this and the experience I gain. Dating is a process of throwing yourself out there and making mistakes, but ultimately emerging a better and wiser man because of them.

Seems I already might have a fall-back option anyway - I get a text today from a girl that Ive known has wanted me for a while, yet Ive been mostly ignoring her because of this girl, my hectic schedule this semester, and generally a lesser amount of interest. But I think perhaps I'll try to get this girl in bed before winter break just to get rid of any attachments. This is NOT the type of girl I would want a relationship with - just a booty call .

So, regardless of what happens, life goes on.

 

[Serg897]

Just one question - during our honesty session, would it be wise for me to bring up my little infidelities during the time we have seen each other also? Perhaps to help establish a trust thing again?

 

[Serg897]

So the talk happened.

She might not know right away so give her time to figure it out and get back to you.

Once again you prove to be the insightful one, Izza. That was essentially the outcome.

She seemed very confused, and she repeated how confusing it was that I did this 180 degree turn on what I wanted. Understandably so. And I sympathized.

I didn't comment or say anything about it, but I swear I heard her crying a bit. She mentioned how a lot of things in her life are confusing right now and that she blew off some friends yesterday to be alone. I'm sure she had some problems juggling her emotions after I "broke up" with her the other day, emotions certainly dealing with me, and of course the other dude that keeps texting her.

While I apologized for snooping and told her it was not my business what she was doing with this guy, I did bring up my past infidelities a little. I'm still not sure if that was a smart thing, but I did it in the name of honesty and trust. I made the argument that she could not have expected me to be 100% monogamous if she did not want commitment all this time, and that things go both ways. She seemed to accept that. I also told her that I enjoy her company much more than I do most other girls - which is the god damn truth.

Like I said, I tried to be sympathetic. I told her to try to find the island of tranquility in the sea of chaos that is her mind right now. I think Ive made a pretty good use of metaphors in our relationship....lol. Back when I first brought up the commitment thing, she would say she likes to "go with the flow". I would retort with "only dead salmon go with the flow". She really didn't like that. But today I was saying "perhaps its okay to be a dead salmon under certain circumstances."

She did keep repeating "I don't know", which made me feel a little uneasy. "I dont know" is one of her staple phrases when she is reluctant to tell me something or doesn't know how to say it.

Regardless, I'm going to continue enjoying my break at home and see where this goes. I'm going to wait at LEAST a few days before I try to contact her again. Probably more. I really don't know how this will turn out, but I'm going to try to prepare for rejection mentally so that I can deal with it more effectively if it happens. It will still suck, though.

There is my update.

 

[izza]

Izza, your post is inspiring. I definately will NOT measure my success based on whether or not I get her back, rather on what I learn from this and the experience I gain. Dating is a process of throwing yourself out there and making mistakes, but ultimately emerging a better and wiser man because of them.

I like your attitude - I like what you said about making mistakes, and focusing on what you learn. Thanks for sharing.

Seems I already might have a fall-back option anyway - I get a text today from a girl that Ive known has wanted me for a while, yet Ive been mostly ignoring her because of this girl, my hectic schedule this semester, and generally a lesser amount of interest. But I think perhaps I'll try to get this girl in bed before winter break just to get rid of any attachments. This is NOT the type of girl I would want a relationship with - just a booty call.

Cool. Does Pook's "back-up girl" idea really work for you? I guess I have been interested in one girl and had another just in case. But for me, having a back-up girl never really solves my problem. I'm still kind of disappointed that I didn't get the girl I want. If I have any problems with self-esteem I don't look to a back-up girl to make me feel better, but rely much more on friends and family - and my hobbies - to bring me back up. But I guess if it works for you, that's what counts.

Just one question - during our honesty session, would it be wise for me to bring up my little infidelities during the time we have seen each other also? Perhaps to help establish a trust thing again?

As a general rule, my advice is to think out loud. If a thought comes, say it. In fact, I've gotten really good at speaking my mind - not perfect of course - and it really is a skill to say what you're thinking. It can be hard because before I had developed much self-advocacy people would get mad and I didn't stand up for myself or set limits.

Anyway, enough about me - my guideline is think out loud. If a thought about the girl comes to your head, tell her about her. In general, if I'm seeing more than one person at once, I like to let the girl know once we're serious enough. Hmm, that's all theoretical, I haven't dated more than one girl seriously before. Not an ethical thing, it just hasn't happened yet and I've been off the dating block enjoying the single life for a couple of years now. But anyway, I think the best course is to be upfront about it.

If it's not the right time to talk about "little infidelities" (that sounds so cute and harmless, as if you took two sample chocolates instead of one), the thought won't even enter your head. Err on the side of honest, though. Practice getting really good at speaking your mind but giving people what they need so they can hear the truth without getting too upset.

Izza

PS I just wanted to highlight some things

-Unsure if you did the right thing
-Apologize for the ultimatum and telling her not to call you. I don't think that's very kind.
-Tell her what commitment means to you (what does it mean to you, why is this important for you? Is there any way to get that without exclusivity?)
-tell her you like her a lot
-***Tell her you don't want to pressure her into a relationship if that's not what she's ready for right now.*** (pure gold)
-Float the possibility that even though you like her a lot, you may be incompatible right now.*** (pure gold)
-She might not know right away so give her time to figure it out and get back to you.*** (effing platinum dude)

A guy who communicates well is so rare. And so effing sexy. Dude, learn to say stuff like this and really mean it. Women will jump you. I'm not kidding.

Izza

 

[izza]

So the talk happened.

Once again you prove to be the insightful one, Izza. That was essentially the outcome.

She seemed very confused, and she repeated how confusing it was that I did this 180 degree turn on what I wanted. Understandably so. And I sympathized.

I didn't comment or say anything about it, but I swear I heard her crying a bit. She mentioned how a lot of things in her life are confusing right now and that she blew off some friends yesterday to be alone. I'm sure she had some problems juggling her emotions after I "broke up" with her the other day, emotions certainly dealing with me, and of course the other dude that keeps texting her.

While I apologized for snooping and told her it was not my business what she was doing with this guy, I did bring up my past infidelities a little. I'm still not sure if that was a smart thing, but I did it in the name of honesty and trust. I made the argument that she could not have expected me to be 100% monogamous if she did not want commitment all this time, and that things go both ways. She seemed to accept that. I also told her that I enjoy her company much more than I do most other girls - which is the god damn truth.

Like I said, I tried to be sympathetic. I told her to try to find the island of tranquility in the sea of chaos that is her mind right now. I think Ive made a pretty good use of metaphors in our relationship....lol. Back when I first brought up the commitment thing, she would say she likes to "go with the flow". I would retort with "only dead salmon go with the flow". She really didn't like that. But today I was saying "perhaps its okay to be a dead salmon under certain circumstances."

She did keep repeating "I don't know", which made me feel a little uneasy. "I dont know" is one of her staple phrases when she is reluctant to tell me something or doesn't know how to say it.

Regardless, I'm going to continue enjoying my break at home and see where this goes. I'm going to wait at LEAST a few days before I try to contact her again. Probably more. I really don't know how this will turn out, but I'm going to try to prepare for rejection mentally so that I can deal with it more effectively if it happens. It will still suck, though.

There is my update.

Sounds like you did awesome. That is fair on her end to take a few days to figure out how she's feeling. I don't think you can express everything that needs to be said in one phone conversation. So it sounds to me like you have a wise idea in calling her again in a few days. I would be willing to bet that your honest sympathy was much appreciated.

Sounds like you did well to me. Looking forward to the next update.

Izza

 

[Serg897]

Cool. Does Pook's "back-up girl" idea really work for you? I guess I have been interested in one girl and had another just in case. But for me, having a back-up girl never really solves my problem. I'm still kind of disappointed that I didn't get the girl I want. If I have any problems with self-esteem I don't look to a back-up girl to make me feel better, but rely much more on friends and family - and my hobbies - to bring me back up. But I guess if it works for you, that's what counts.

While I think that its nice to have a prospective back-up going on so you can fall back on it if you fail with the "primary" girl...I dont think its the end-all be-all solution to deal with the feelings of rejection from the girl you were interested in more.

With my situation, this back-up girl is no where near as interesting or exciting as the one Ive been talking about. I just know that I could probably get her to sleep with me if I put a little bit of effort into it. If I end up facing rejection, it might help me a little bit to see this other girl, but in the end I think its no replacement for friends/family/hobbies to bring you back up.

That said, this post is to thank everyone who followed this thread and took the time to post here to give me advice and guidance. Despite my initial blunders, I feel pretty satisfied now with what has happened --- and it probably would NOT have ended up this way without you guys.

Ive known about this website for many years (check the date I registered), but recently I've only turned to it in completely new situations that I have never faced before. This was one of them. Thanks again.

I'll definately be updating this as new things happen.

 

[Igetit!]

Well,looks like this thing has finally come to a end. Some guys might think it's not over with,but yeah,it's over with. This has become like a ball of yarn to her. There are so many twists and turns,misunderstandings,issues of trust,it's no wonder she gave you the "I don't know" treatment.

She did keep repeating "I don't know",which made me feel a little uneasy. "I don't know" is one of her staple phrases when she is reluctant to tell me something or doesn't know how to say it.

EXACTLY. When ever a woman repeatedly says "I don't know" when it to whether or not she should date a guy,she usually decides NOT to date him. Believe it or not,you'd be better off getting a direct "no",than a "I don't know" from her. In fact,we currently have a thread on here by Daygameguy called,"I got my first "I don't know" shutdown". Take a look at it,see show it turned out.

There are simply too many negative,turnoff things for her.
1.You pushing for a commitment: In general for women,this is a turnoff. It makes a woman think that you're trying to tie her down because you can't get any other woman,like you don't have any other options. She doesn't want to feel like she was settled for. Also,she wants the prize,something that everyone else wants,not something that everyone else has rejected.

2. Breaking her trust by going through her phone. There is more to this than just the trust factor,which is enough by itself to destroy your chances with her. You going through her phone also shows her your insecurity. It show her you're not confident,two MAJOR TURNOFFS for women.

3. Now this one I have referred to many other times in other threads. If there were a "TOP TEN" things never to do with a woman you're interested in,this one would rank #2 or 3. And that thing is this:You became her therapist. Did you mean well? Yes. Were you trying to help her? Yes. And you know what? It doesn't matter.

This is all just too much mentally and emotionally for her. With the other guy,all she has to do is simply enjoy the emotions her generates in her. Period. No insecurity to deal with,no snooping in her phone,thus no trust issues. She doesn't have to think about the problems in her life with him,because when she's in his presence (or talking to him on the phone),the feelings her causes in her overrides the worries in her mind. It's like when someone has some problem in their life,and they turn to drugs or alcohol to not have to deal with it. Even through the problem is still there,she's so wrapped up in how she feels,they never even enter her mind when she's with him.

You say that you're going to go no contact for a couple of days to let her sort things out in her mind. I guess that's a good idea. But my guess is that she'll probably continue to stay in contact with this other guy during this time. I seriously doubt she's going to use this time deciding if she should date you or not. I think she's just going to relax and enjoy the feelings he creates in her. This way,she won't how to think all the drama she has with you.

Well,like you said,the important thing is if you learn something from all this,because I know you don't want to have to go through this again.