Attractive women with goofy guys

[sangheilios]

The other night I had a boy's night out at an outdoor restaurant/bar, first time going out in any capacity since early March. There was live music and a lot of people congregated in the courtyard. Anyway, one of my friends pointed out that there were a ton of very attractive women out that night and he made a comment about how we were the only guys there that even looked in shape. I looked around and I noticed the guys were just not particularly good looking dudes, out of shape and yet were with these very attractive women. This is an observation I've noticed a lot in the past and then we had a discussion about it.

One of the things we all agreed on was that many women will date men that in some form or another are already within their social circle, as it is safe and comfortable. Another thing we discussed was that women may have a lot of insecurities around men they perceive as potentially just pumping and dumping them, cheating on them, etc. None of this has to do with game or money, as at the end of the day such a small percentage of men will have any of this going for them to the point where it will allow them to land better women.

I've had some experiences in the past where I'd try to talking to some 4 at a bar and she turns her back on me and yet I'll her talking with some hipster looking weirdo.

 

[AttackFormation]

1. You don't know the nature of their relations with each other in any sense, from whether it's platonic or sexual at all to the conditions of the sexuality.
2. You can't see what guys they're with outside of this narrow circumstance/vision.

No need too assume too much. Of course, you are right that being preselected is like being a business able to operate without the normal barriers to entry, we all know this but the problem is how much (that is, how little) control a normal man has over preselection.

 

[lostintime]

A few possibilities:

1. They're orbiters. Women do stuff like this w/ their orbiters all the time. It's free entertainment. Plus, it ups their value (at least they think in their own minds) to show up to a club where their might be guys they actually wanna f*ck with other guys, even if they're lesser SMV. Also, the beta might have things about his personality she genuinely finds amusing (The same way a King finds a court jester amusing).

2. These guys might actually be Alpha. Looks very rarely correlates with "Alpha". A-lot of the guys you'd think are getting laid a-lot because of how they look are actually some of the most desperate and awkward dudes out there. Maybe not with their friends, family members or work colleagues, but around women..most definitely. This was a big paradigm shift for me when I finally realized this. Alpha attitude and aura is the key factor that gets a woman's p*ssy wet when thinking about a man.

3. Maybe they're legitimately just friends enjoying each other's company (rare compared to 1. and 2.)

 

[GioWolf]

From my experience, preselection is a major factor. It’s why I can do better at a party where I know people vs a random bar where I don’t know anybody, even though there are soo many more women at the bar. I remember an old PUA tip to approach the man in a social group and befriend him, and now you are preselected for the women in his social circle.

 

[zekko]

1. They're orbiters. Women do stuff like this w/ their orbiters all the time. It's free entertainment. Plus, it ups their value (at least they think in their own minds) to show up to a club where their might be guys they actually wanna f*ck with other guys, even if they're lesser SMV. Also, the beta might have things about his personality she genuinely finds amusing (The same way a King finds a court jester amusing).

I was watching a video awhile back, I think it was a "Marni the Wingmam" video. She was talking about how certain guys who talked to her would get thrown into the friendzone, but she said something like "I would kill anyone who ever hurt them". This kind of took me back a bit because it indicates she actually cares about these guys on some sort of deep level, when I thought most women actually sort of despised their orbiters to some extent.

This goes back to something I've always thought, that a lot of orbiters are on a higher level than a lot of bottom barrel incels. Because maybe the orbiter at least gets to go out and be seen with some very hot women, while the very low value guy doesn't even get that.

 

[jaymbrs]

I believe it's a cycle. I consider myself an attractive man, well built, and social. My ex admitted she was not 100% comfortable while she was with me because she felt I would cheat on her at any moment. She ended up dating down after me and says she's legitimately happy. Is she going to end up with this guy for the rest of her life? Who knows. But I truly believe she will get bored with him after awhile and realize she can do better. Then she'll probably date another guy like me. Like some of us say on here, it's not his woman, it's just his turn.

 

[Mike32ct]

I was watching a video awhile back, I think it was a "Marni the Wingmam" video. She was talking about how certain guys who talked to her would get thrown into the friendzone, but she said something like "I would kill anyone who ever hurt them". This kind of took me back a bit because it indicates she actually cares about these guys on some sort of deep level, when I thought most women actually sort of despised their orbiters to some extent.

This goes back to something I've always thought, that a lot of orbiters are on a higher level than a lot of bottom barrel incels. Because maybe the orbiter at least gets to go out and be seen with some very hot women, while the very low value guy doesn't even get that.

Agreed. It's way more complicated than the "She either wants to F you or kill you" mindset that is sometimes mentioned lol.

Here is a better (yet still oversimplified) model:

1. The Creepzone: She hates you and wants nothing to do with you.

2. Friendzone-lite: She is not attracted to you; she doesn't want to be your friend, but has nothing against you personally. You're not a "creeper," but that's it.

3. Friendzone/Orbiter: She genuinely likes you as a person, but is not attracted to you. It's very roughly a brother/sister type relationship. I think this is what Marni was referring to.

I won't get into the scenarios where she IS attracted. That's not the point here.

 

[corrector]

Agreed. It's way more complicated than the "She either wants to F you or kill you" mindset that is sometimes mentioned lol.

Here is a better (yet still oversimplified) model:

1. The Creepzone: She hates you and wants nothing to do with you.

2. Friendzone-lite: She is not attracted to you; she doesn't want to be your friend, but has nothing against you personally. You're not a "creeper," but that's it.

3. Friendzone/Orbiter: She genuinely likes you as a person, but is not attracted to you. It's very roughly a brother/sister type relationship. I think this is what Marni was referring to.

I won't get into the scenarios where she IS attracted. That's not the point here.

Where are you getting these terms from? I've googled it and there is no established place for "Creepzone". Creep is normally a way of describing a guy that's making a move on a woman that she's not attracted to, or the move is not welcome. Any random woman who doesn't know you could be Friendzone-lite.

The status lower than a friendzone is a fan, not a creep. You are either her fan or her friend. If she hates you or has an attitude, then it's a rejection, instead of a "zone".

 

[Mike32ct]

Where are you getting these terms from? I've googled it and there is no established place for "Creepzone".

They're not official terms. I made them up to try to approximate some of these intermediate "stages."

Creep is normally a way of describing a guy that's making a move on a woman that she's not attracted to, or the move is not welcome.

True. But it is also possible for her to consider a guy a creep/creeper who has done nothing wrong. The guy could be alone, have awkward body language, lack of looks (or significantly older) and still be considered a creeper even though he respectfully ignored her.

Any random woman who doesn't know you could be Friendzone-lite.

For the purposes of the above, I'm going to assume she knows who the guy is.

The status lower than a friendzone is a fan, not a creep. You are either her fan or her friend. If she hates you or has an attitude, then it's a rejection, instead of a "zone".

We can disagree on the "names." If a guy is a fan, he could be "friendzone-lite" because she's neutral about him, or he could be a fan she really, really doesn't like which would be more like "creepzone."

 

[sangheilios]

Agreed. It's way more complicated than the "She either wants to F you or kill you" mindset that is sometimes mentioned lol.

Here is a better (yet still oversimplified) model:

1. The Creepzone: She hates you and wants nothing to do with you.

2. Friendzone-lite: She is not attracted to you; she doesn't want to be your friend, but has nothing against you personally. You're not a "creeper," but that's it.

3. Friendzone/Orbiter: She genuinely likes you as a person, but is not attracted to you. It's very roughly a brother/sister type relationship. I think this is what Marni was referring to.

I won't get into the scenarios where she IS attracted. That's not the point here.

Honestly, if you are making a move and she doesn't say yes, flakes or whatever it's in your best interest to just disengage with interacting with her unless this isn't possible (work, etc.).

A lot of young women today lack common sense and aren't able to realize that if a man asks her out and she isn't interested she is NOT supposed to be engaging with him, approaching him, etc.

A couple years I had approached a woman at my gym and we interacted for a couple minutes, it was awkward but I asked her for her number she said "I have a boyfriend" and then I replied by saying "nice to meet you" and walked away. This woman would go out of her way to approach me and engage with me, say hi, bye, etc. I made another move a couple months later and she rejected it and finally got the hint that she was leading me on and stopped lol.

 

[Medina]

This is called "oofy doofy theory" and I do believe there is some truth to it

Women have a defense mechanism with guys they perceive as "fvck boys"

So they might choose a guy that's oofy. But to be honest, these guys are normally still tall and relatively good looking

But they are not as swag as Chad or Tyrone. So there is some safety net there for the girls

After all, women are very emotional beings and have a big heart to protect

 

[mickdollaz]

Let's look at the facts here:

1. you're hanging out with a bunch of men

2. the only woman you've talked to recently is a '4'

3. you call guys 'goofy' and out of shape and think women lack 'common sense'

The problem is your personality: you have a strong sense of entitlement combined with a strong sense of narcissism. Good luck with that.

 

[sangheilios]

Let's look at the facts here:

1. you're hanging out with a bunch of men

2. the only woman you've talked to recently is a '4'

3. you call guys 'goofy' and out of shape and think women lack 'common sense'

The problem is your personality: you have a strong sense of entitlement combined with a strong sense of narcissism. Good luck with that.

1. It's good to hang out with other men and have a social life.

2. Who said it was recent?

3. You don't think some guy wearing a fedora looks goofy?

 

[mickdollaz]

1. You don't know the nature of their relations with each other in any sense, from whether it's platonic or sexual at all to the conditions of the sexuality.
2. You can't see what guys they're with outside of this narrow circumstance/vision.

No need too assume too much. Of course, you are right that being preselected is like being a business able to operate without the normal barriers to entry, we all know this but the problem is how much (that is, how little) control a normal man has over preselection.

Of course, there's nothing about the situation that's inherently troubling or worrisome. Instead, he's projecting all of his worst fears onto the situation and assuming the worst, leading to depression, anxiety and anger.

As I said, the problem is with him. His thought process is completely negative, generating an endless stream of toxic emotions. Instead of simply enjoying an evening out, it's just another opportunity to trigger all of his insecurities.

 

[GioWolf]

Being that hipster looking weirdo myself often, I will tell you what it is about - its character, game, intelligence, EQ.

Women want to feel SAFE and want to have FUN and want to be SEDUCED.

Hipster looking guy doesn't have tons of muscles or even height but he knows that he can offer female all of the above.

You just described Beta game.

 

[Mike32ct]

Honestly, if you are making a move and she doesn't say yes, flakes or whatever it's in your best interest to just disengage with interacting with her unless this isn't possible (work, etc.).

Understood. I would tolerate being in friendzone if there is some social or practical value to knowing the chick. If she's someone I work with, then yeah, I obviously need to be on good terms with her. Or if she involved with some social circle hobby activity or she's a "hired gun" bartender chick at a bar/restaurant that I'm (was lol) a regular at.

But to just be friends with some random chick outside of your work/social circle doesn't make too much sense.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I was watching a video awhile back, I think it was a "Marni the Wingmam" video. She was talking about how certain guys who talked to her would get thrown into the friendzone, but she said something like "I would kill anyone who ever hurt them". This kind of took me back a bit because it indicates she actually cares about these guys on some sort of deep level, when I thought most women actually sort of despised their orbiters to some extent.

This goes back to something I've always thought, that a lot of orbiters are on a higher level than a lot of bottom barrel incels. Because maybe the orbiter at least gets to go out and be seen with some very hot women, while the very low value guy doesn't even get that.

Being seen with a "hot woman" is not necessarily a good thing. If she acts like she doesn't want to be with you it damages your image.

 

[zekko]

Being seen with a "hot woman" is not necessarily a good thing. If she acts like she doesn't want to be with you it damages your image.

As opposed to sitting in your parents basement playing video games? At least you're getting out doing things.
If she thinks enough of you to want to spend time with you, that must mean you have something going for you. Granted that is probably not enough for your average DJ, but depending on who you are and what your aims are, I'm sure there are worse positions to be in.

I mean there are probably guys who would like to spend time with her, but she wouldn't give the time of day to. That doesn't matter from an "I want to get laid" DJ perspective, I'm just saying there are probably bigger losers out there.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

As opposed to sitting in your parents basement playing video games? At least you're getting out doing things.
If she thinks enough of you to want to spend time with you, that must mean you have something going for you. Granted that is probably not enough for your average DJ, but depending on who you are and what your aims are, I'm sure there are worse positions to be in.

I mean there are probably guys who would like to spend time with her, but she wouldn't give the time of day to. That doesn't matter from an "I want to get laid" DJ perspective, I'm just saying there are probably bigger losers out there.

Not necessarily true. Its better to be alone vs be treated like shyt.

 

[oc16]

The other night I had a boy's night out at an outdoor restaurant/bar, first time going out in any capacity since early March. There was live music and a lot of people congregated in the courtyard. Anyway, one of my friends pointed out that there were a ton of very attractive women out that night and he made a comment about how we were the only guys there that even looked in shape. I looked around and I noticed the guys were just not particularly good looking dudes, out of shape and yet were with these very attractive women. This is an observation I've noticed a lot in the past and then we had a discussion about it.

One of the things we all agreed on was that many women will date men that in some form or another are already within their social circle, as it is safe and comfortable. Another thing we discussed was that women may have a lot of insecurities around men they perceive as potentially just pumping and dumping them, cheating on them, etc. None of this has to do with game or money, as at the end of the day such a small percentage of men will have any of this going for them to the point where it will allow them to land better women.

I've had some experiences in the past where I'd try to talking to some 4 at a bar and she turns her back on me and yet I'll her talking with some hipster looking weirdo.

Ha, I'm 43 and I have noticed this for the past 20 years.

Most of your observations are accurate.

Women are the better looking of the sexes and yes they routinely date men less attractive than them. When it comes to LTR, good looks take a backseat to confidence, personality, social status. Also, many women in their minds have/must be the better looking of the couple or they will feel insecure.

It is annoying for sure!

I had a fling with a coworker of mine (she worked at diff location) and she pretty much used me as a rebound. She was not a knockout, but very cute and naturally pretty.

She ended up with a guy way more goofier looking than me. I can think of 5 to 6 couples off the top of my head where the woman is noticeably better looking.