Attachment Theory

[Focal core]

Ur not alone, I catch myself doing it too. Step one, be cognitively and presently aware of who you really are and how you operate - always question the health of your choices.

Already resolved all my core traumas as the opportunity show itself last time.. Its kind of pain u never experienced in your entire life in order to resolve it.

And yea if ure bitching about ur partner look to yourself in the mirror, as u said we mirroring our partner, i say we reflextively attracted to someone who match our own emotional level.

 

[Focal core]

Ur not alone, I catch myself doing it too. Step one, be cognitively and presently aware of who you really are and how you operate - always question the health of your choices.

Here some other tale for you,

There's always a childhood template that sets up our attraction to someone. It's likely your partner has traits similar to mother and/or father, so you're already familiar with the relationship dynamics you've recently struggled through, which keeps it exciting, despite all the agony it causes you.

You cant escape doing personal growth and raising your self-worth to get a better partner..

The template what called attraction strategy. Its automatic.

 

[Focal core]

The most dangerous element you share in a Relationship , is poor self-worth. If you truly liked and respected yourself, you wouldn't be involved with a damaged, self-sabotaging individual who's toxic and hurtful to you.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Can relate, I never had any support or care from my family and I developed a totally avoidant personality; keep in mind that I often left home for entire summers without even bothering to call my parents for months.

Now regarding women, it only takes a hint of time demanding from them that I already create distance, the good thing is that if something doesnt work or a girl creates drama I can walk away without looking back within few seconds.

I often wondered how people can connect to each other or be that couple where they are glued to each other since its something completely alien to me.

Most of my sex life has been one night stands or fvck buddy relationships with girls met that same day or the previous days.

 

[The Duke]

I come from a very solid and positive family. Next to no dysfunction growing up. No childhood trauma. The only dysfunctional part of my childhood was moving every 3-5yrs because of my dads job. As a result I was forced to leave behind a lot of good friends and this effects a person over time. You develop coping mechanisms that determine how you bond with people in the future because of the pain you felt when previous relationships ended as they did with my childhood friends. Over time I became somewhat of a lone wolf/don't care if others like me or not/do my own thing/take care of myself/highly independent/don't rely on others/I'm stronger than them.

Thru out my marriage I was securely attached, but the 5yrs following my divorce I became highly dismissive avoidant(coping mechanisms I learned as a child) and went thru a lot of girls. I still attract a lot of anxious attachment style females that are insecure and critical of themselves and are dependent on me to validate their self worth yet never do. Eventually they become too dramatic driving me away.

Understanding attachment theory has helped me become a better person relationship wise and helps me understand girls that have broken up with me.

I wish people understood more about each others attachment styles and were open to discussing as a couple. Its not the cluster b issues that Sosuave would lead you to believe. Its lack of awareness about individual attachment styles and how those effect bonding in relationships.


Dismissive Avoidant Types
Dismissives are rarely so open about declaring themselves. They think highly of themselves and will tell you they value their self-sufficiency and independence—needing others is weak, feelings of attachment are strings that hold you down, empathy and sympathy are for lesser creatures.
A Dismissive often has a story of a previous relationship which was never fully realized or ended when his partner left—early in his romantic life, or perhaps long-distance. The memory of this idealized previous partner is used as a weapon when the Dismissive tires—as they quickly do—of a real relationship and its demands; no one could measure up to the one that got away. This is another distancing trick to keep real intimacy at bay.
Dismissives have poor access to early emotional memories, having built a defensive shield of self-esteem and self-sufficiency that requires negative memories to be suppressed.

Dismissives will learn to get their needs for attention, sex, and community met through less demanding partners who fail to require real reciprocation or intimacy (often the anxious-preoccupied!):


Anxious Attachment Types
These people are often driven to engage in pre-emptive strategies in an attempt to avoid being rejected. However, their excessive dependency, demands and possessiveness tend to backfire and precipitate the very abandonment that they fear. Attachment theorists and researchers Shaver and Clark, (1994), have observed that “preoccupied” partners appear to be “perpetually vigilant and somewhat histrionic.” They feel resentful and angry when their partner doesn’t provide the attention and reassurance they feel they need. They often believe that unless they dramatically express their anxiety and anger, it is unlikely that the other person will respond to them. Many of those with preoccupied attachments are reluctant to express their angry feelings toward a partner for fear of potential loss or rejection. When they try to suppress their anger, their behavior tends to vacillate between outbursts of anger and pleas for forgiveness and support. In some cases, the fears and anxieties can lead to more serious emotional disturbances, such as depression.

I also find it very interesting the types of SoSuave members who don't participate in topics like this one yet have all the answers! haha

 

[Die Hard]

But I wonder how much of what the forum members experience in the dating realm can tie back to dysfunctional attachment styles.

99%

 

[fastlife]

I think Attachment-Theory is a useful lens through which to explore relationship dynamics--but I think it's also limited. I've gone on record saying that I would never invest emotionally in a woman who didn't have a solid, respectful relationship with a father-figure who I personally admired (the pandering Daddy's Girl stuff comes with its own set of issues). That dynamic tends to be super important in coloring the dynamics of the rest of the relationship.

BUT that doesn't exclusively determine whether she's attracted to you in the first place, her natural propensity toward promiscuity, what she's looking for in that particular stage of life, the incentives & social pressures of society at large, etc.

It's a pipe dream to think if you got two Secure people together a successful, happy monogamy would be the probable outcome. I personally used to alternate between extreme Fearful-Avoidant & Dismissive-Avoidant, with all the relationship scars to show for it. I spent a long time developing a more Secure attachment style, but at my most (at least outwardly) Secure, the panties started drying up across the board lol. Anxiety is a necessary component of Arousal--for both genders, but particularly women. These days I'd categorize myself as Attachment-Indifferent and that seems to work out pretty well.

 

[Die Hard]

I have an insecure attachment style stemming from a BPD mom who mentally raped me all throughout my childhood and teenage years, lol. As a result:

1. I subconsciously get drawn to others with insecure attachment style.
2. I subconsciously attract others with insecure attachment style.

I solved the first problem more or less. The subconscious mechanism is still there but I recognize it and can consciously steer away from it.

I have a hard time solving the second problem. I attract these types like honey attracts bees. I don't even have to talk to them, they already "know" I am their type from observing my face and my body language. Then they come onto me...

Of course I have learned to filter these types out. As soon as they come onto me, I know that they are trouble lol. So I try to ignore them. Which is difficult when they look hot! I tell myself to not reject them coz I could use them for sex. But the sex is never worth the negative interaction that these types bring along.

But yeah, I can filter them out, even if they look good.

The problem is, when I filter thes types out, there's no one left for me! Whenever I try to hit on a "normal" girl, let's say one with "secure attachment style", they won't be interested in me. Most probably because they subconciously know that I have an insecure attachment style, so they don't find me attractive/interesting.

What's left for me to do? Try to fix myself, try to correct my insecure attachment style. Good luck with that, I don't believe it CAN be fixed. I do believe it can be diminished, meaning it will still be there but it will have become less powerful.

So that's what I aim for, anyway... Then maybe I can find a woman who has insecure attachment style as well, but who also succeeded at dimishing it, like me. And maybe we'll fit...

If any of you watched the latest season of Daredevil, I liked the quote Vanessa made:

"Don't you understand we're all broken? The point is to find the person whose broken pieces fit with yours."

 

[Bible_Belt]

Sorry to be so contrary, BE, but It all sounds like bullsh!t to me, made up to sell books.

Other than not being molested - I had a pedo jr high teacher, but he liked rich boys - I had as fvcked up of a childhood as anyone, but I never went through adult life making excuses for myself because of it. Sure, one's upbringing influences who you are, but that is different than holding yourself to a lower standard because mommy didn't hug you enough. Such behavior is bothersome enough in women, but in males it is the antithesis of manliness. Personal responsibility and accountability is the answer, not whiny excuse-making. If you are unhappy with your relationships in life, or any other aspect of life for that matter, that is because you fvcked up and made mistakes. Everyone does; you learn and move on. But blaming it on your childhood is a cop out and a barrier to self growth.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Sorry to be so contrary, BE, but It all sounds like bullsh!t to me, made up to sell books.

Anything that is not scientifically measurable, and is based largely on self reported experiences is suspect. Especially if those self reported experience are filtered through tons of unconscious bias.

Even more so if it allows one to excuse behaviors (self or other).

I'm with bible on this one. This sounds very similar to the Meyer's Briggs idea.

Meyers Briggs tends to be a way to create a feeling of status without having to have actual status. To conjure up specialness without needing to demonstrate it.

This seems to do this, but in a way that sort of absolves one of self responsibility.

If you like your behavior, keep it. If you don't like it change it.

If you like another's behavior, keep them. If you don't like their behavior, let them know and go from there.

While this is an interesting subject, I don't see much value in it as a strategy.

 

[BeTheChange]

Because secure attachment women(meaning they want a secure attachment man, not self-proclaimed secure then chasing avoidant men like BE lol) are very very rare in the market especially as we age.

It's basic psychology. People want what they can't have. Scarcity creates value. It's a fantasy. If you want an LTR then you hand over power to women. Women don't get wet over that which they have power over. It's a a fundamentally masculine position.

You say you have always been LTR minded but after reading this thread and your self diagnosis it seems your desire has more to do with your attachment style than any intrinsic value in a relationship. I think if you can free yourself of this desire you'll ironically have much more success in securing the long term interest of any girl you do decide is worthy of such commitment.

 

[BeTheChange]

I should develop an avoidant attachment style?

Look at the actual happy marriages with the college sweethearts etc, that is not chasing or push/pull and never was. Literally zero of my married friends are or were a challenge. In the post bonding Market yes obviously it's all about being avoidant and anxious and push pull to create attraction.

No. You should rid yourself of your obvious neediness.

If we're going to be anecdotal most of the "happy" marriages I see - friends who met at uni - had a push pull dynamic at some point early on, almost always in the guy's favour. The only exception to this I have seen is like you said childhood sweethearts who met at 15 and only slept with each other. But you're not 15 anymore and you won't be dating high school virgins either.

 

[BeExcellent]

It's interesting food for thought. My guy is fearful avoidant but matured to a place where he sees it and recognizes and is working to remedy it.

I was originally anxious attachment but have healed into secure/anxious.

I'm not low self esteem by any stretch. I am not afraid of things in my relationship, and the interaction appears to have a healing effect on my guy.

We all must keep our own counsel on what works in our own relationships. Mine is in a very good place just now.

Sometimes you need a person whose broken places support and complement your own.

 

[BeExcellent]

Shouldn't a secure attachment person be repulsed by a fearful avoidant, or is this a polarity issue of opposites attract? Or is this not really relevant to attraction?

I don't know. That's why I find attachment theory fascinating. All I know is we are in the grinder of reality and both of us turn toward the relationship rather than away from it...

Even though the relationship exposes liabilities...it also brings great joy.

 

[MatureDJ]

Been reading up on attachment theory lately. Why? Because attachment theory underlines how individuals relate to one another in close relationships. Here are some interesting findings:

Secure Attachment style: people who are secure in themselves, have healthy foundational relationships (parents, siblings, family etc.) and who welcome intimacy & bonding in close relationships. Product of stable, secure caregiving during childhood, intact family, positive & nuturing childhood environment. This represents about 50% of the population.

I wonder does this correlate to the 50% of 1st marriages that stay together for the duration (figure for first marriages is actually a higher success rate...50% divorce stat includes subsequent marriages with higher percent failure rate - but it all gets averaged together).

Anxious Attachment style: Basically your insecure clingers. They tend to seek relationships but getting close to someone brings out insecurity and clingyness. About 25% of the population suffers from an anxious style, result of volatile family background where there was some nuturing & love but also some dysfunctional dynamics that trigger insecurities. These people are pleasers & doormats for the reward of close relationships.

Avoidant attachment style: There are various subtypes including dismissive avoidant, fearful avoidant and some others. These are people who crave intimacy and close relationships but were grossly neglected, unloved, or abandoned as vulnerable children or by primary close relationships early in life resulting in fear of intimacy, fear of close relationships, lack of emotional development (lack of empathy, narcissism, inability to give or recieve love). These people are emotionally fvcked up by early developmental dysfunction. This affects about 25% of the population....

But that number skews higher in adult singles because avoidant attachment style people are least equipped to bond or build intimacy or maintain close relationships with others. In other words avoidant types are the least likely to pair bond and end up in stable marriages or LTRs.

The good news is people can repair their attachment style if it is dysfunctional with self awareness, maturity and perseverance. But dating an avoidant is no picnic. These are people who avoid intimacy because it isn't safe.

But I wonder how much of what the forum members experience in the dating realm can tie back to dysfunctional attachment styles.

I am dating a fearful avoidant. I am a secure/anxious (about 3-5% of the population). It's very interesting how this stuff applies and how true the behavioral patterns seem to be.

Just thought it might offer some morsels for provocation of thought about ourselves as individuals as well as the people we get into relationships with.

I'm in the 50% having had a good childhood. But due to hypergamy & heightism, women have been very few & far between, making it very difficult to not be clingy when I have finally gotten my hands on a decent woman.

 

[Ranger]

I didn’t hear any mention of biological propensities of each gender. The overwhelming vast majority of men, regardless of the type of woman they are attracted to, suffers from sex rationing by the female partner.

Once having definitively obtaining a man...biologically her sexual anxiety is gone. She is now secure. He gets cucked no matter what kind of woman he is with. I’m the last guy to tell another man what to do or to not have a relationship. As long as he knows before hand that there is no upside for him.
Once a man is rationed sex, his biology will actually create problems of scarcity and her badger will surface. No matter what type she is.

I see this as a bargaining lure to get men thinking about returning fully to the imperative. Having that idealistic relationship that he craves.

Any man can turn a woman into a psycho just by wanting sex from her. She isn’t feeling true desire anymore. Women haven’t come to the realization that many of us will never return to a tried and proven failed model.

 

[Ranger]

Yes, the default female attachment style seems to be anxious, while the male is secure or avoidant.

As long as there is no financial and loss downside to a woman going into an LTR or marriage, there is no solution. None.

 

[Ranger]

My personal opinion and position is that...I don’t want anything from her except intimacy and sex. Anything that wrecks that is my enemy.
When she no longer a feels desire for me or I no longer feel desire for her...it’s over. Part while on good terms. Trying to get sex out of a woman who no longer has that desire is like rowing upstream in a bad a$$ river. You’re gonna drown if you don’t go back downstream.

Again. Frame handles all of this. Don’t live together and maintain your own space and goals. When she no longer wants to interact with you...good to go.

 

[Ranger]

Agreed. It's even worse than being alone and sexless to have a woman sitting there rejecting you constantly. I think if the dichotomy I described is mostly true then you really shouldnt settle down if you need a lot of sex.

Well also just functional sex is something I’m not interested in. I like those feelings of being intimate and connected with a woman. So intimacy is a very different concept than sex. They are not the same.
Men that get caught up with a woman can’t handle the emotions of intimacy without wrecking things and eventually getting trashed. They are in the wrong model.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The overwhelming vast majority of men, regardless of the type of woman they are attracted to, suffers from sex rationing by the female partner.

Once having definitively obtaining a man...biologically her sexual anxiety is gone.

And the man stands by and lets that happen. It takes two to make a fvcked up relationship. The woman is not without fault, but neither is the man, for choosing a woman poorly, being in denial when that becomes obvious, and devaluing himself in his mind so much that he thinks he cannot do any better.