At what point does money become irrelevant?

[member160292]

you’re right. I’m actually top 1%

Infographic: How much pay makes you a top earner in the UK?

This infographic shows the average annual gross pay of UK employees in the top earning percentiles in 2019.

www.statista.com

Lol, seriously?
I make more than twice as much and I wouldn’t even consider myself in the top 25% percentile.

 

[member160292]

Believe whatever you want to think is true

 

[FlirtLife]

If half of the $20m is generating that 4% you're referencing, that's $400k per year. Spending about $240k just to live a comfortable life with nothing too extravagant. upper middle class vacations, dining, and overall living while still putting aside some cash in the bank.

Why did you divide the $20m in half?

I've read about the 4% rule over and over online and in books. Your misunderstanding of it suggests you've never heard of it. What is your investment experience?

 

[jaygreenb]

yep. And married.

I'm sure you love your children but your wife is really disrespectful. Long term this can have a huge impact on your self worth. Hopefully these are isolated incidences, if you not might be a good idea looking at option.

 

[AAAgent]

Why did you divide the $20m in half?

I've read about the 4% rule over and over online and in books. Your misunderstanding of it suggests you've never heard of it. What is your investment experience?

Early on in my life, I determined that society is setup in a way where most people are doomed to be poor and stuck in the rat race. System is built off credit. In order to build credit, you need to take on debt. There's little guidance from society for most on how to properly build credit unless you self educate, but once you turn 18 years old your thrown into the trend of borrow for college, taking out credit cards, buying a car, etc. before you've even gotten your ears wet around financial education. 401k's, pensions, the 4% rule, etc. are designed in way to keep most people enslaved in debt for the majority. Those that believe in these things, more power to you but when the government's sole interest is to keep the rich, rich, and make them even richer while keeping the poor complacent and naive, I tend to not follow the herd.

The Fed is hiking interest rates in a way which will decimiate 401k's, and on the off chance that it doesn't and we inflate our way to continuous new all time market highs, than great, you stocks will be maybe 50% or double what they're worth in dollars but overall losing considerable purchasing power. Those relying off pensions when the dollar is setting up for the largest dump in its history and the government deficity continues to increase with end of debt in sight, makes me feel sorry for those who invested their lives into these scam investments. I never expected the government or anyone other than myself to take care of me. So while most fell into this 50% to 100% increase, I was working towards 1,000% & 10,000% growth.

To follow traditional investment principles so I can finally free yourself from the debt based enslavement system when i'm in my 50's or 60's may be acceptable to most here, but to me is not acceptable. I refused to be a slave to the system and was willing to get rich or die trying. My goal was not to survive in the system, but thrive inside and outside of it. You never become successful or an outlier statistics by following the herd mentality/trend.
--
I'm 36 now and have made my fair share. Probably more than most on this forum. Started with nothing in my early twenties. Started studying markets and economics and very early on realized that they did not infact reflect the state of the economy. Much of it is based on geopolitics, global economics, insider information, and the information is extrapolated out to the point where its near impossible for anyone but those well connected, educated, to understand. Most people just close their eyes and buy stocks, throw into funds and retirement portfolio's because of this and "trust the process". Knowing that the process only allows you to reap the benefits when you're old, and that if you're lucky, I started to research into those that became extremely wealthy and any noticeable patterns.

The identifiable pattern from the really successful was not 4% rule or any of the other herd mentality investment strategies as stated above.
- go against the herd (if you don't want to be a sheep, don't act like one)
- foresight (ability to be forward looking and thinking to see things before they happen)
- identify counter trend opportunities and capitlize off them
- go big or go home and fail often
- one of the times, when you go big, you will strike gold. capitlize off this, and shift strategies to more safely preserve wealth.

--

Would love to hear your experience and if the 4% rule worked out for you?

 

[AAAgent]

ian wives have a really high expectation. while she is loyal, doesn't drink and has a lot of good qualities, she has never once shown gratitude for what i do, never said well done and always acts like she's had to settle for a life of poverty because I'm not a multi millionaire and sadly my family are poor as church mice so its taken me till middle age to get anywhere. i didn't have a house deposit or money for a business, a lot of asian men seem to get given family money and im being compared to them.

I'd rather be single than be with someone that doesn't appreciate me. I've told my wife, she's here to make my life better and vice versa. If it's not the case, than what is the point of our relationship. It's supposed to be mutually beneficial. If she ever feels like she deserves someone better or wants something better, I've told her she's free to leave. Those are the conditions of our relationship and she agrees to them. I don't get much complaining.

Wife is also Asian.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Lol, seriously?
I make more than twice as much and I wouldn’t even consider myself in the top 25% percentile.

Yeah but that’s not reality my friend. You are top 3%.

I try to explain to my wife that I’m top 10% earners but she still says “you don’t earn that much and you’re not wealthy”.

She says she’ll only give up work to be a housewife if I can hand her $2,700 a month as an allowance.

There are lots of women I feel who would be very proud of a man making that money.

Women are born complainers.

If my wife says that to me I will check that shvt real quick. She knows better, There are plenty of women that happy to take her place.

I'd rather be single than be with someone that doesn't appreciate me. I've told my wife, she's here to make my life better and vice versa. If it's not the case, than what is the point of our relationship. It's supposed to be mutually beneficial. If she ever feels like she deserves someone better or wants something better, I've told her she's free to leave. Those are the conditions of our relationship and she agrees to them. I don't get much complaining.

Wife is also Asian.

Amen!

 

[jaygreenb]

Early on in my life, I determined that society is setup in a way where most people are doomed to be poor and stuck in the rat race. System is built off credit. In order to build credit, you need to take on debt. There's little guidance from society for most on how to properly build credit unless you self educate, but once you turn 18 years old your thrown into the trend of borrow for college, taking out credit cards, buying a car, etc. before you've even gotten your ears wet around financial education. 401k's, pensions, the 4% rule, etc. are designed in way to keep most people enslaved in debt for the majority. Those that believe in these things, more power to you but when the government's sole interest is to keep the rich, rich, and make them even richer while keeping the poor complacent and naive, I tend to not follow the herd.

The Fed is hiking interest rates in a way which will decimiate 401k's, and on the off chance that it doesn't and we inflate our way to continuous new all time market highs, than great, you stocks will be maybe 50% or double what they're worth in dollars but overall losing considerable purchasing power. Those relying off pensions when the dollar is setting up for the largest dump in its history and the government deficity continues to increase with end of debt in sight, makes me feel sorry for those who invested their lives into these scam investments. I never expected the government or anyone other than myself to take care of me. So while most fell into this 50% to 100% increase, I was working towards 1,000% & 10,000% growth.

To follow traditional investment principles so I can finally free yourself from the debt based enslavement system when i'm in my 50's or 60's may be acceptable to most here, but to me is not acceptable. I refused to be a slave to the system and was willing to get rich or die trying. My goal was not to survive in the system, but thrive inside and outside of it. You never become successful or an outlier statistics by following the herd mentality/trend.
--
I'm 36 now and have made my fair share. Probably more than most on this forum. Started with nothing in my early twenties. Started studying markets and economics and very early on realized that they did not infact reflect the state of the economy. Much of it is based on geopolitics, global economics, insider information, and the information is extrapolated out to the point where its near impossible for anyone but those well connected, educated, to understand. Most people just close their eyes and buy stocks, throw into funds and retirement portfolio's because of this and "trust the process". Knowing that the process only allows you to reap the benefits when you're old, and that if you're lucky, I started to research into those that became extremely wealthy and any noticeable patterns.

The identifiable pattern from the really successful was not 4% rule or any of the other herd mentality investment strategies as stated above.
- go against the herd (if you don't want to be a sheep, don't act like one)
- foresight (ability to be forward looking and thinking to see things before they happen)
- identify counter trend opportunities and capitlize off them
- go big or go home and fail often
- one of the times, when you go big, you will strike gold. capitlize off this, and shift strategies to more safely preserve wealth.

--

Would love to hear your experience and if the 4% rule worked out for you?

Absolutely agree, the system is basically designed to keep people as debt slaves their entire lives. Simply having a middle class salary and saving 10% a year, not going to work out for most. When you are salaried and have a dependable income and incremental raises, most just eat those up in lifestyle inflation. You have to either have successful parents who teach you about asset ownership/business to look at money differently or self educate. You really have to take on the responsibility to understand what you are investing in and not just count on someone else to do it for you. One of the most important aspects engrained in you when you are a business owner compared to an employee is that your income can be extremely volatile year to year. You are also just one major lawsuit or event away from having to completely start over. Because of this always being a possibility, in the good times, you really build up that war chest and become more reluctant to take on luxury lifestyle liabilities until you can actually afford it. For myself, once I got all my debt paid off and my business to a high income, around year 5. The next 7yrs I saved/invested over 50% of my income. Ill add a few of my observations on what matters

-Willingness to take on risk/belief in yourself
-Indecision is often worse that wrong decision. You just got to jump in there and figure it out, you will take some lumps but consider it tuition. Most have paralysis by analysis
-Spend at least the first 5yrs getting your income as high as possible before committing a lot of time to investing. Without a lot of capital, returns are not going to be that meaningful. That high income will also allow you to recover from investment mistakes and will enable you to weather the storm. You have to graduate to the investor class, doing it first is backwards
-The smaller the percentage of the public understands something, the more upside there is. ex. Amazon in early 2000's high upside, today limited upside
-Find a long term trend and be patient, sometimes years. Impossible to time markets in the short term. Don't take on too much leverage where you can not be patient
-When you do get to a higher net worth, manage your risk/downside. You can have decades of being right and have one black swan event wipe that all out if not positioned correctly
-Take advantage of the energy of your youth and take on risks. Nothing is a bigger motivator than when you have it all on the line. You will have a lot of time to recover when young

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

There is a reason you want a Fed job these days: your retirement is indexed to the Fed. The lawmakers’ retirements all are…

How lawmakers are looking to change the COLA for federal retirees | Federal News Network

House lawmakers have reintroduced the Equal COLA Act, to equalize cost-of-living adjustments for federal retirees, and the Fair COLA for Seniors Act, to change how the annual adjustments are…

federalnewsnetwork.com

Early on in my life, I determined that society is setup in a way where most people are doomed to be poor and stuck in the rat race. System is built off credit. In order to build credit, you need to take on debt. There's little guidance from society for most on how to properly build credit unless you self educate, but once you turn 18 years old your thrown into the trend of borrow for college, taking out credit cards, buying a car, etc. before you've even gotten your ears wet around financial education. 401k's, pensions, the 4% rule, etc. are designed in way to keep most people enslaved in debt for the majority. Those that believe in these things, more power to you but when the government's sole interest is to keep the rich, rich, and make them even richer while keeping the poor complacent and naive, I tend to not follow the herd.

The Fed is hiking interest rates in a way which will decimiate 401k's, and on the off chance that it doesn't and we inflate our way to continuous new all time market highs, than great, you stocks will be maybe 50% or double what they're worth in dollars but overall losing considerable purchasing power. Those relying off pensions when the dollar is setting up for the largest dump in its history and the government deficity continues to increase with end of debt in sight, makes me feel sorry for those who invested their lives into these scam investments. I never expected the government or anyone other than myself to take care of me. So while most fell into this 50% to 100% increase, I was working towards 1,000% & 10,000% growth.

To follow traditional investment principles so I can finally free yourself from the debt based enslavement system when i'm in my 50's or 60's may be acceptable to most here, but to me is not acceptable. I refused to be a slave to the system and was willing to get rich or die trying. My goal was not to survive in the system, but thrive inside and outside of it. You never become successful or an outlier statistics by following the herd mentality/trend.
--
I'm 36 now and have made my fair share. Probably more than most on this forum. Started with nothing in my early twenties. Started studying markets and economics and very early on realized that they did not infact reflect the state of the economy. Much of it is based on geopolitics, global economics, insider information, and the information is extrapolated out to the point where its near impossible for anyone but those well connected, educated, to understand. Most people just close their eyes and buy stocks, throw into funds and retirement portfolio's because of this and "trust the process". Knowing that the process only allows you to reap the benefits when you're old, and that if you're lucky, I started to research into those that became extremely wealthy and any noticeable patterns.

The identifiable pattern from the really successful was not 4% rule or any of the other herd mentality investment strategies as stated above.
- go against the herd (if you don't want to be a sheep, don't act like one)
- foresight (ability to be forward looking and thinking to see things before they happen)
- identify counter trend opportunities and capitlize off them
- go big or go home and fail often
- one of the times, when you go big, you will strike gold. capitlize off this, and shift strategies to more safely preserve wealth.

--

Would love to hear your experience and if the 4% rule worked out for you?

 

[FlirtLife]

Early on in my life, I determined that society is setup in a way where most people are doomed to be poor and stuck in the rat race. System is built off credit. In order to build credit, you need to take on debt. There's little guidance from society for most on how to properly build credit unless you self educate, but once you turn 18 years old your thrown into the trend of borrow for college, taking out credit cards, buying a car, etc. before you've even gotten your ears wet around financial education. 401k's, pensions, the 4% rule, etc. are designed in way to keep most people enslaved in debt for the majority. Those that believe in these things, more power to you but when the government's sole interest is to keep the rich, rich, and make them even richer while keeping the poor complacent and naive, I tend to not follow the herd.

The Fed is hiking interest rates in a way which will decimiate 401k's, and on the off chance that it doesn't and we inflate our way to continuous new all time market highs, than great, you stocks will be maybe 50% or double what they're worth in dollars but overall losing considerable purchasing power. Those relying off pensions when the dollar is setting up for the largest dump in its history and the government deficity continues to increase with end of debt in sight, makes me feel sorry for those who invested their lives into these scam investments. I never expected the government or anyone other than myself to take care of me. So while most fell into this 50% to 100% increase, I was working towards 1,000% & 10,000% growth.

To follow traditional investment principles so I can finally free yourself from the debt based enslavement system when i'm in my 50's or 60's may be acceptable to most here, but to me is not acceptable. I refused to be a slave to the system and was willing to get rich or die trying. My goal was not to survive in the system, but thrive inside and outside of it. You never become successful or an outlier statistics by following the herd mentality/trend.
--
I'm 36 now and have made my fair share. Probably more than most on this forum. Started with nothing in my early twenties. Started studying markets and economics and very early on realized that they did not infact reflect the state of the economy. Much of it is based on geopolitics, global economics, insider information, and the information is extrapolated out to the point where its near impossible for anyone but those well connected, educated, to understand. Most people just close their eyes and buy stocks, throw into funds and retirement portfolio's because of this and "trust the process". Knowing that the process only allows you to reap the benefits when you're old, and that if you're lucky, I started to research into those that became extremely wealthy and any noticeable patterns.

The identifiable pattern from the really successful was not 4% rule or any of the other herd mentality investment strategies as stated above.
- go against the herd (if you don't want to be a sheep, don't act like one)
- foresight (ability to be forward looking and thinking to see things before they happen)
- identify counter trend opportunities and capitlize off them
- go big or go home and fail often
- one of the times, when you go big, you will strike gold. capitlize off this, and shift strategies to more safely preserve wealth.

--

Would love to hear your experience and if the 4% rule worked out for you?

If you have no investment experience, people should not listen to your advice on retirement.

I asked for your investment experience, and you gave your life story. Although you did not directly answer my questions[1], your claim that 401k plans do not keep up with inflation is good enough: you do not understand investments. Historically, stocks outpace inflation. Look in pretty much any investment book to learn that. But you haven't read any investment books, have you?

You divided the $20m in half for no reason, which is why you didn't answer that question [1], either. If you can't explain why someone needs $20m vs $10m, maybe it's because you don't know.

I mentioned the 4% rule to test your knowledge, and you failed. You went from calling it my 4%, to calling it the 4% rule after I corrected you. The 4% rule is the most basic concept. Instead of learning that, you have learned to call pensions "scam investments" and claim 401k cannot keep up with inflation. So everyone with a pension or 401k is wrong, but you're right?


[1]

Why did you divide the $20m in half?

I've read about the 4% rule over and over online and in books. Your misunderstanding of it suggests you've never heard of it. What is your investment experience?

 

[FlirtLife]

Absolutely agree, the system is basically designed to keep people as debt slaves their entire lives. Simply having a middle class salary and saving 10% a year, not going to work out for most.

By "absolutely agree", I hope you exclude claims that pensions are "scam investments" and 401ks do not keep up with inflation.

-Find a long term trend and be patient, sometimes years. Impossible to time markets in the short term. Don't take on too much leverage where you can not be patient

If three or four people time the markets in a given year, one of them will beat the market by luck. If you call market timing "impossible", that lucky person could assume they can ignore your advice since the impossible happened. I would say market timing fails over years. It may work for a few years, but the odds fall every year.

There's a lot of research showing the average investor tries to chase the hot stocks or trends (like AI investing), and then winds up with performance below the market. From what I've seen, most investors do not learn or improve. For that majority (not all), switching to passive index funds / ETFs is an improvement.

 

[AAAgent]

If you have no investment experience, people should not listen to your advice on retirement.

I asked for your investment experience, and you gave your life story. Although you did not directly answer my questions[1], your claim that 401k plans do not keep up with inflation is good enough: you do not understand investments. Historically, stocks outpace inflation. Look in pretty much any investment book to learn that. But you haven't read any investment books, have you?

You divided the $20m in half for no reason, which is why you didn't answer that question [1], either. If you can't explain why someone needs $20m vs $10m, maybe it's because you don't know.

I mentioned the 4% rule to test your knowledge, and you failed. You went from calling it my 4%, to calling it the 4% rule after I corrected you. The 4% rule is the most basic concept. Instead of learning that, you have learned to call pensions "scam investments" and claim 401k cannot keep up with inflation. So everyone with a pension or 401k is wrong, but you're right?


[1]

What makes any of your comments and claims here valid when you haven't shared anything?

What books have you read? How much money do you make? What is your net worth? I'd be confident in saying all less than me but do try to lecture me on investment when you haven't acquired anything worthy of investing yourself. I've helped many people make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, including people on this forum which is documented.

The fact you believe pensions are not a scam, that 401k's aren't at risk just shows you haven't educated yourself, which i'm not surprised as this is common and what I was referencing earlier. Most are brainwashed by our society and financial systems in place to improvish themselves so that the rich can get richer. I've read many books on finance and investing, and honestly most of them aren't too helpful. There's some diamonds you can take away from there but definitely doesn't outline a path towards wealth in today's environment.

Birth rates are declining globally, cost of living is increasing, debt levels are at all time highs and becoming unserviceable or already unserviceable depending on how you look at it. How can pensions/401k's be sustainable under this type of environment? Maybe you weren't around for 2008 but when governments have to come in to bail out entire industries to save people's retirements just shows you the problem here. Even the data for pensions is forecasting major problems for pensions. Given we are on the brink of the worst recession in our lifetimes, this will only get worse.

Unfunded Liabilities for State Pension Plans in 2022

Based on funded ratio, Wisconsin, Washington, and South Dakota have the best funded public pension plans in America. The worst funded plans are in Illinois, Kentucky, […]

equable.org

"There is at least $6.3 trillion in future retirement benefits promised to the public employees who are members of the largest 228 public retirement systems. But nationally, just $4.9 trillion has been put aside to pay those benefits. This means there is a national public pension funding shortfall of around $1.4 trillion, as of June 30, 2022"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/energy/time-bomb-of-public-pension-funding-ticks-louder/2023/02/13/a9cbcfae-ab94-11ed-b0ba-9f4244c6e5da_story.html

US pension funds are on the brink of implosion – and Wall Street is ignoring it | David Sirota

Private equity firms managing millions of Americans’ retirement savings may be inflating their investments

www.theguardian.com

Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation by massively increasing the circulating supply of dollars. They are trying to combat this by slowing down the m2 velocity and decreasing the amount people spend/exchange dollars by increasing interest rates. This is being counter-acted by many large nations abandoning the dollar and joining BRICS and Crypto thus decreasing the demand for purchasing dollars and using dollars compounding on the supply issue. Rate increasing are also increasing costs for many companies who have borrowed resulting in massive layoffs. Jobless people and covid benefits drying up are decreasing revenues company revenues. Drop in revenues and continuous rate hikes are pushing companies to layoff even more. This is driving the economy to the point where people will not have money, they can't afford to borrow, and asset prices on facing major deflationary headwinds, while debt levels and money supply are at all time highs. 401k's/Pensions likely will not survive this.

I don't mind helping others on the forum as I've learned a lot from the forum and come back time to time to visit to try and contribute, but dumba$$es like you are why much of the population stays poor. For those reading, recommending herd mentality investments is not the way to build wealth.

 

[AAAgent]

Started with nothing in my early twenties. Started studying markets and economics and very early on realized that they did not infact reflect the state of the economy. Much of it is based on geopolitics, global economics, insider information, and the information is extrapolated out to the point where its near impossible for anyone but those well connected, educated, to understand. Most people just close their eyes and buy stocks, throw into funds and retirement portfolio's because of this and "trust the process".

If you want to understand how the markets work, watch this insider scoop from O'keefe's Media Group who goes undercover to interview a blackrock employee that discusses how they manipulate markets with insider information, lie to the public about what investments and inversely trade against the public normies, as well as buy off both sides of politicians with all their gains to influence decision making. He also explains how most normal people are too stupid to understand any of this and how the world works. Sounds very much like @FlirtLife and other's that believe they're doing themselves service by following any of the investing principle's that have been mentioned here.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671262303319392259

 

[jaygreenb]

If three or four people time the markets in a given year, one of them will beat the market by luck. If you call market timing "impossible", that lucky person could assume they can ignore your advice since the impossible happened. I would say market timing fails over years. It may work for a few years, but the odds fall every year.

There's a lot of research showing the average investor tries to chase the hot stocks or trends (like AI investing), and then winds up with performance below the market. From what I've seen, most investors do not learn or improve. For that majority (not all), switching to passive index funds / ETFs is an improvement.

Just keeping it brief. Of course not impossible and we all get lucky but unless you are one of the top investors it is a long term losing strategy. You do not want to build bad habits, eventually will pay the price. Agree the average investor will be served best to have a passive strategy. It takes many years of experience, aptitude, expensive lessons and being a student to have any sort of insight or edge. Any "hot" investment, usually by the time the general public participates the majority of the gains are gone and will most likely have a correction. I have made the most money on my investments when nobody paid attention and accurately predicted a future trend. You catch the entire move but need to be patient and properly assess the opportunity. If you do not want to be "average" that is how you can do it. Takes a lot of work and sacrifice though

By "absolutely agree", I hope you exclude claims that pensions are "scam investments" and 401ks do not keep up with inflation.

Each pension is different but most of them are incredibly underfunded, most likely will not get many of the benefits promised. Everything is not necessarily a "scam" but it not how the majority of wealthy get there. If you want real financial independence early, going to be hard with just a 401k. It is better than nothing but is a slow long grind and many will not have enough to retire or keep up their living standards. The "scam" to me is the standard layout most make accumulating massive amounts of debt that you work your entire life to pay off. In my opinion, not the ideal way to do it. You have to have an above average commitment to get there.

Will add though a lot of Pension funds get gutted through mandated investments and selling close "scam" level PE. Basically raping the pensioners with fees. Same thing with fees charged by financial advisors, they have massive impacts on long term returns. If you want to get ahead you need to take control yourself and understand what you are doing so you do not have to rely on parasites

 

[jaygreenb]

If you have no investment experience, people should not listen to your advice on retirement.

I asked for your investment experience, and you gave your life story. Although you did not directly answer my questions[1], your claim that 401k plans do not keep up with inflation is good enough: you do not understand investments. Historically, stocks outpace inflation. Look in pretty much any investment book to learn that. But you haven't read any investment books, have you?

You divided the $20m in half for no reason, which is why you didn't answer that question [1], either. If you can't explain why someone needs $20m vs $10m, maybe it's because you don't know.

I mentioned the 4% rule to test your knowledge, and you failed. You went from calling it my 4%, to calling it the 4% rule after I corrected you. The 4% rule is the most basic concept. Instead of learning that, you have learned to call pensions "scam investments" and claim 401k cannot keep up with inflation. So everyone with a pension or 401k is wrong, but you're right?


[1]

I think you are missing the point. If you want to be above average you can't do what average people do. It isn't just making a few bets but a lifetime commitment to constantly learning, taking risks and properly allocating your money. The average person will not do this, above average people do do this

 

[FlirtLife]

What makes any of your comments and claims here valid when you haven't shared anything?

What books have you read? How much money do you make? What is your net worth? I'd be confident in saying all less than me but do try to lecture me on investment when you haven't acquired anything worthy of investing yourself. I've helped many people make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, including people on this forum which is documented.

You said "which is documented"... where? Keep in mind if you only document gains, and ignore losses, that's an easy way to claim success. It would be like recommending Bitcoin every year, and taking credit for someone doubling their NW and ignoring when they lose 80% of their NW.

I asked "Why did you divide $20m in half" [1] when applying the 4% rule. You have no answer for that? A direct question about how $20m pays for someone's retirement, and all you can do is attack me? What I see is someone who lacks an understanding of investment, so you make up BIG and ROUND numbers like $20,000,000. But your response is to call me a "dumba$$" [2] - what does that say about you?

For other posters, you apply 4% times your retirement portfolio as a rough estimate of what annual spending that portfolio supports. Someone with a $5 million portfolio x 4% = $200,000/year. The Trinity Study assumed a 60/40 portfolio for 30 years, which is where the 4% rule comes from. I'd suggest retirement simulators for that same calculation today, but at least the 4% rule gets you an estimate. If OP is saving $50k on a $250k salary, they could support their spending with $5 million. Note how dramatically the 4% rule differs from AAA's suggestion of $20m - off by a factor of 4. As to who is more likely to be right... my suggestion has a page on Investopedia, while locating the source of AAA's suggestion requires consulting his proctologist.

What Is the 4% Rule for Withdrawals in Retirement?

Discover the 4% rule for retirement withdrawals, a strategy to make your savings last. Learn how it adjusts for inflation and helps manage your financial future.

www.investopedia.com

I don't mind helping others on the forum as I've learned a lot from the forum and come back time to time to visit to try and contribute, but dumba$$es like you are why much of the population stays poor. For those reading, recommending herd mentality investments is not the way to build wealth.

The 4% rule isn't an investment. Where did I recommend an investment, let alone "herd mentality investments"? Can you quote the specific investment I recommended? And yet you don't answer either of my questions [1], and instead lash out by calling me a "dumba$$" [2], which says more about you than me.


[1]

Why did you divide the $20m in half?

I've read about the 4% rule over and over online and in books. Your misunderstanding of it suggests you've never heard of it. What is your investment experience?

[2]

I don't mind helping others on the forum as I've learned a lot from the forum and come back time to time to visit to try and contribute, but dumba$$es like you are why much of the population stays poor. For those reading, recommending herd mentality investments is not the way to build wealth.

 

[FlirtLife]

There's a lot of research showing the average investor tries to chase the hot stocks or trends (like AI investing), and then winds up with performance below the market. From what I've seen, most investors do not learn or improve. For that majority (not all), switching to passive index funds / ETFs is an improvement.

I think you are missing the point. If you want to be above average you can't do what average people do. It isn't just making a few bets but a lifetime commitment to constantly learning, taking risks and properly allocating your money. The average person will not do this, above average people do do this

I don't expect the average person reading here to be above average. If I tell them to start businesses until they succeed, that will not motivate someone to work 80 hours/week as CEO of multiple failed companies before they succeed. Ownership is a better path to wealth than asset allocation. But for the average person - the average poster - I think the goal is reducing mistakes. Avoiding asset allocation mistakes can bring someone more than they had. I don't expect a post in here to make someone rich, just richer.

 

[jaygreenb]

I don't expect the average person reading here to be above average. If I tell them to start businesses until they succeed, that will not motivate someone to work 80 hours/week as CEO of multiple failed companies before they succeed. Ownership is a better path to wealth than asset allocation. But for the average person - the average poster - I think the goal is reducing mistakes. Avoiding asset allocation mistakes can bring someone more than they had. I don't expect a post in here to make someone rich, just richer.

I think we are just referencing two different scenarios. What I was speaking about is if you want to achieve higher than average results and financial independence with options. If someone is not going to put the work in and dedicate themselves, I agree, reduce risk and go the safe route. The average person from the United States with average strategies will not have enough at retirement though. This forum is under "wealth and success" and focused on self improvement, so just sharing my opinion and observations on how to get there. In my opinion, just being average is no longer enough to have a high level of quality of life.

The average net worth of Americans age 55 to 64 — and how to boost yours

Net worth tends to increase with age as you earn a higher salary, own more assets and reduce debt. Here's the average net worth of people in their 50s and 60s.

www.cnbc.com

 

[AAAgent]

You said "which is documented"... where? Keep in mind if you only document gains, and ignore losses, that's an easy way to claim success. It would be like recommending Bitcoin every year, and taking credit for someone doubling their NW and ignoring when they lose 80% of their NW.

I asked "Why did you divide $20m in half" [1] when applying the 4% rule. You have no answer for that? A direct question about how $20m pays for someone's retirement, and all you can do is attack me? What I see is someone who lacks an understanding of investment, so you make up BIG and ROUND numbers like $20,000,000. But your response is to call me a "dumba$$" [2] - what does that say about you?

For other posters, you apply 4% times your retirement portfolio as a rough estimate of what annual spending that portfolio supports. Someone with a $5 million portfolio x 4% = $200,000/year. The Trinity Study assumed a 60/40 portfolio for 30 years, which is where the 4% rule comes from. I'd suggest retirement simulators for that same calculation today, but at least the 4% rule gets you an estimate. If OP is saving $50k on a $250k salary, they could support their spending with $5 million. Note how dramatically the 4% rule differs from AAA's suggestion of $20m - off by a factor of 4. As to who is more likely to be right... my suggestion has a page on Investopedia, while locating the source of AAA's suggestion requires consulting his proctologist.

What Is the 4% Rule for Withdrawals in Retirement?

Discover the 4% rule for retirement withdrawals, a strategy to make your savings last. Learn how it adjusts for inflation and helps manage your financial future.

www.investopedia.com

The 4% rule isn't an investment. Where did I recommend an investment, let alone "herd mentality investments"? Can you quote the specific investment I recommended? And yet you don't answer either of my questions [1], and instead lash out by calling me a "dumba$$" [2], which says more about you than me.


[1]


[2]

Wait so you don't earn anything worth mentioning, haven't acquired anything worth mentioning, don't understand pensions, don't understand the financial system, don't understand economics but you are lecturing on building wealth?

Anything else besides the 4% rule we should learn from this masterclass of yours?

 

[itouchyou]

Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation by massively increasing the circulating supply of dollars.

Are you aware of what hyperinflation even is? Hyperinflation is 50% inflation month over month. Right now the government has put us at maybe 4-5% year over year. Unless I'm retarded I don't see how 4-5% year over year is anywhere close to 50% month over month.

The Fed is hiking interest rates in a way which will decimiate 401k's, and on the off chance that it doesn't and we inflate our way to continuous new all time market highs, than great, you stocks will be maybe 50% or double what they're worth in dollars but overall losing considerable purchasing power.

This doesn't make any sense. Interest rate hikes are designed to increase the cost of lending and subsequently force companies to lay people off (which reduces the consumer's discretionary spending) to protect their profits as well as reduce corporate spending which ultimately circulates money out of the economy to slow down inflation.

401ks are tied to index funds for the most part which are tied to legitimate businesses that are constantly growing. The intrinsic value of these businesses will always exist regardless of the strength of the dollar and the market capitalization of these companies in a legitimate market will reflect that whether their price is $100 share or $10,000/share after currency devaluation due to inflation. I do not understand how inflation does anything negative to 401ks, as a matter of fact a retirement account is probably one of the safest places to park your money to hedge against inflation as long as you have exposure to the world market and not just the USD. The only risk is if there is a black swan event like 2008 or the pandemic that slashes share prices to oblivion overnight, but that is a risk we all have to take. The people getting hurt by inflation are the ones that are stashing their money under their mattress or leaving it in an account that doesn't generate interest on the balance.