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Article in Time magazine trounces traditional masculinity

Colossus

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20071006/us_time/fatherhood20

I came across this article in Time magazine about the 'changing face of masculinity'. This is the culture we are living in, men.

This article shows how culture keeps trying to push positive masculinity back to the dark ages. A lot of discussion material here.

"Coltrane of UC Riverside and John Gottman at the University of Washington found in separate studies that when men contribute to domestic labor (which is part and parcel of parenting), women interpret it as a sign of caring, experience less stress and are more likely to find themselves in the mood for sex..."

"Other research shows that fathers who stop being men of the old mold have better-adjusted children, better marriages and better work lives--better physical and mental health, even. "Basically," says Rochlen, "masculinity is bad for you."


That should be enough to get you going. :cuss:
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

DJDamage

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Paul Haley, 38, a father of two, says women look at him when he walks down the street with his kids. "I think it's admiration," he says.
Yes they admire the fact that this man has been domesticated, broken and enslaved through the action of another woman. Just because someone admire's you, doesn't mean they desire you and want to sleep with you. Those are two different things.

"Fathers are beginning to look more like mothers."
Correction: Fathers are today's mothers. Today American women spends alot less in the kitchen, alot less cleaning, alot less taking care of the kids but alot more of complaining and alot more partying. The man then feels obligated to do so to make his wife happy.

This article pretty much says: Let your wife be the boss of the house and if you do more around the house and let her do more stuff that she wants, you might get more sex this way (good boy! here is a cookie!).

Can you imgaine that uproar by women if they came up with an Article: "Motherhood 2.0" - Does being less of a mother makes you more of a woman?? and the answer is no!!!
 
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The Hpr matrix is real and has been pushed for forty years!! Most men on here, SS, on this site, has accepted the hpr as a woman - these weak men do more to promote the hor matrix than any article does!
 

STR8UP

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Last Man Standing said:
The Hpr matrix is real and has been pushed for forty years!! Most men on here, SS, on this site, has accepted the hpr as a woman - these weak men do more to promote the hor matrix than any article does!
Uh, yea, lets all hold our breath for a perfect little virgin to come along.

Forty something years old and you STILL think that way?

You're deluded dude.
 
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I don't drink poison just because I'm thirsty and it's offered to me! :rolleyes:

You are the deluded one for knowingly drinking poison!
 

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

Luthor Rex

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This article is a good example of why I don't even bother with mainstream news anymore. Whoever wrote this was a ****ing twit who can't think.

He/she/it does exactly what most normal (aka stupid) people do: there is no deep thought of the issue at hand.

A male who doen't have children is a male without a future. I know it's heartbreaking to some, but this really is the Darwinian struggle and we are here to make babies. To ensure that his children grow strong and in turn have success in life themselves a father will do what he must. Changing a diaper is only un-manly if you don't give a **** about your child. We don't all get to have perfect lives where the mothers of our children are there every moment of every day to care for our chlidren.

How stupid is this whole 'it's un-manly to do X with baby' bull****? Is any father with something resembling a conscious ever going to say "sorry but I can't take little Billy to the doctor's because it's un-manly."

Retarded article written by a retarded women (even if she has a penis she's a woman) for retarded people to read.

I'm going to go and pour bleach in my eyes just to get the filth out.

:rockon:
 

Firepower

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Modern America is Poossified and the Media just piles on. Look, the media isn't brilliant: witness any cable "news" broadcasting yet another car chase, Britney's custody issues or cat stuck in a tree.

Maury, The View...OPRAH

Compare the credo of past American men who kicked butt to create this place to modern whiners who tear-up when their chest waxing appointment gets canceled
 

Bonhomme

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The first thing to consider when reading any opinion is where the writer coming from, personally speaking.
 

Bonhomme

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Time, liberal? :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
 

Rollo Tomassi

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There was an article similar to this in Newsweek this week. It basically outlined the travails of house husbands and how "fulfilled" they felt they were in just "being there" for their kids. I found it interesting that they had a full page shot of Chris Cornell (from Soundgarden/Audioslave) with his 2 kids hanging on him as if he ought to be seen as the poster boy for stay at home Dads. When you've sold as many records and done as much heroin as Cornell, I hardly think the guy is the best example for house husbandry.

What I fin interesting in this article and the many more just like it is the fact that, once again, masculinity is always perceived in the negative. As if there is not a single beneficial quality of masculinity. "Masculinity is bad for you" you're poisoned by your testosterone. Never is it mentioned that traditional, positive masculinity emphasizes rationality, persevereance, duty, and yes, risk taking behaviors that are necessary elements in daring to be something, or someone more than what your limited expectation might have you believe if all you had taught to you was feminine empathy, security and self-preservation.

Imagine a world where men are taught not to rush into a burning building to save innocent lives because it's just too dangerous. A feminine aspect is necessary for empathy, caring and nurturing to be complete, but you cut a person in half when you fail to teach them risk taking, perseverance, rationality, a desire to dominate and win, a positive competitive drive, and yes, a calculated ability to reserve and control one's emotional reactions - all of these traits serve to make a more complete human being be they male or female.

99% of men in a house-husband capacity are there by economic or personal necessity, not by design. Notice that in every instance the guy is cast in his role due to his wife making more money than he - that was the reality of his situation. Of the guy's interviewed in this article, you'd be hard pressed to find one who's life's ambition was to be a stay-at-home Dad. Most are so because of personal decisions they made and didn't pan out. Is it any wonder that unemployed or underemployed men would need to find some rational to give them a sense of pride? They make their necessity a virtue and then pass their failings along to another generation.

How many of these couples would've decided to have the father stay home if they both made the same money? How many opt to keep their children in daycare while both work due to economic realities? How many of these men will remain in their role once their children reach a self-sufficient adolscence? How many of these house husbands would still opt for this role (or reverse the role with their spouse) if offered a job that paid half again what their wives were making? You can fluff up the touchy-feely emotionality of it all, but at the end of the day it's the bottom line that makes the decision, not some self-righteous sense of masculine or feminine purpose.

Paul Haley, 38, a father of two, says women look at him when he walks down the street with his kids. "I think it's admiration," he says.
Well I'd guess he'd better hope it is, otherwise it's just him standing out like an anomally. Something tells me that a 38 y.o., married with 2 kids house husband would necessarily HAVE to interpret it as admiration, even though I'd doubt he has the social skills to recognize admiration from pity considering he's been socially cut off dealing with diapers, runny noses, cartoons and early childhood development. Once again, necessity is a rationalized virtue.

"Masculinity has traditionally been associated with work and work-related success, with competition, power, prestige, dominance over women, restrictive emotionality."
Oddly enough, this is exactly the world into which women choose to put themselves. By this articles definition, they are assuming the masculine role, but notice that for women, emmulating masculinity is a positve. If we're going to go to the absolute and say "masculinity=bad" then professional mothers are the worst offender of masculinity, because it is their role to be the examples of feminine virture and nurturing. At the very least, by this logic, we're expecting women to play both the masculine and feminine equally well. However in this model, we have a woman give birth and then pawn off her responsibility of engendering her children with this exclusively positive femininity on her mate (which admittedly he's unprepared for) while she goes off to engage in the masculine.

My wife and I both work. I make twice what she does in my field. Our daughter is 9 y.o. and we esentially share custody of her since our schedules are opposite. I work during the week, she works at a hospital over the weekend and occasionally on call during the week. We both work full time. My daughter is not at want for anything either positively masculine or positively feminine. Early on I combed my daughters hair for her, not because I was "exploring my feminine side", but because her hair needed combing so she was presentable and we could get out the door and be on time to whatever it was we were doing. I also personally taught my girl to ride a bicycle, even after she'd gone and fell off it numerous times and was scared crazy about it. But she got back on that damn bike, tears and all, and learned how to risk injury for a greater reward. I taught her to swim as well using the same principle. Mrs. Tomassi has a primal fear of deep water and about pees herself when I take my daughter into the waves (and they're pretty small in Florida) at the beach. But once my girl got over that fear, she learned how fun it is to play in the surf. Both of us do homework with her and teach her along with her schooling, is this a masculine or feminine trait? On occassion, I'll make her re-do an assignment, even though correct, if she's done a sloppy job of it. She predictably complains and kvetchs all over, but the "big, mean, evil masculine" Father sticks to this so as to instill a sense of pride in ones work. I'm sure the authors of this articel would call me a callous tyrant for being masculine and insensitve, but often enough it takes a masculine man to kick a kids ass because sometimes 'good enough' isn't - not because masculinity is bad, but because I love her and it's necessary.
 

squirrels

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This shouldn't surprise anyone by now.

There are two kinds of people in the world...those that run their lives according to the liberal media, and those that run their own. If you're the latter, you really don't have to worry about this kind of crap.

Carry on.
 

kingwilliam

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Mainstream media has castrated America........ "political correctness" is eroding everything that is good. I'm tired of our country being such a ***** and being afraid we are going to offend someone. I wish Time magazine and Hillary Clinton would spontaneously combust with all their fellow fvcktards.
 

Colossus

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Oddly enough, this is exactly the world into which women choose to put themselves. By this articles definition, they are assuming the masculine role, but notice that for women, emmulating masculinity is a positve. If we're going to go to the absolute and say "masculinity=bad" then professional mothers are the worst offender of masculinity, because it is their role to be the examples of feminine virture and nurturing. At the very least, by this logic, we're expecting women to play both the masculine and feminine equally well. However in this model, we have a woman give birth and then pawn off her responsibility of engendering her children with this exclusively positive femininity on her mate (which admittedly he's unprepared for) while she goes off to engage in the masculine.
The contradictions in this social rift are so obvious that people miss them.

The reason why I think this 'shift' will ultimately fail for both society and individual families is that it goes against the natural order of things. All this demonizing of masculinity is like slapping God in the face.

I think that more and more women are sucked into this current where they deem that masculinity needs an overhaul and suddenly they have the authority to do it. "this is ok, this is not ok"..."this is how you treat me, this is how men should act". Their power in dictating social norms has exploded over the past 30-40 years.

Stand like a rock, men.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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At the risk of derailing this thread, let me go on record as saying that redefinng gender is NOT an issue of liberal or conservative ideologies. It's easy to paste one on flouncy sterotypical liberalism, but in all honesty the most conservative men I've known were some of the biggest pussiewhipped AFCs I've known. Not because of their ideology but simply because they internalized it as a means to an end. I should also add that EVERY woman I've ever known to describe herself as a conservative has always been a staunch supporter of gender redefining in practice, but never professed against it. Every one of them would be extremely offended were I to ask if they were feminists, yet all of them universally strived for the same agenda.

Personally, I'm a very liberal guy from a political standpoint, but I absolutely believe in positive masculinity. I think it's a big mistake that only polarizes the discussion to cast this in an "us versus them" arrangement. I may hug trees and crunch granola, but men need to be Men at the end of the day.
 

WestCoaster

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Totally agree, this is not a "right" vs. "left" thing, though that's the only way people know how to argue (debate?) these days. I live in the state of Idaho, our infamous senator, Larry Craig, has been a known closeted homosexual for years and years, I heard it decades ago. Yet he stood on the platform of "family values" and bashed homosexuals for years, then the Minneapolis airport deal and more denials.

But I digress ... I dated a conservative/bible thumper in college (big mistake) and she was the biggest "I want to dictate things" in the relationship that I've ever seen. Now and then I'd call her on it and say it wasn't aligning with her biblical principles. I could see her getting a headache, after a little soul searching, she'd go back to being the strong/take no sh-t woman, practically a feminist.

EVERY conservative guy I know is so p-whipped it's not even funny. I advise a lot of Mormon dudes and they come in with their so-called submissive wives and guess what? The wives ALWAYS call the shots, I'd say 10 times out of 10, every freaking time, same with fundamentalist Christians. The biggest wear-the-pants-in-the-family women I've ever met are fundamentalist Christians, Catholics, and Mormons. Odd, huh?

Sorry for the hijacking, this has more to do with culture than right vs. left or religion.
 

jophil28

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Colossus said:
.... women are sucked into this current where they deem that masculinity needs an overhaul and suddenly they have the authority to do it. "this is ok, this is not ok"..."this is how you treat me, this is how men should act". Their power in dictating social norms has exploded over the past 30-40 years.
THis is precisely what has happened - GREAT observation Collossus.
Women have eagerly grabbed that high ground and tried to become the arbiters of how "maleness " should play out.
How the F**K did we let them have that power ?
It is NOT up to WOMEN to define our behavior . IT is up to US.
AS men we need to have the courage to design our own lives and quit being merely a mushy collection of reactions to what 'society' or (worse) what women expect from us.
That is what a lot of us have become since the early seventies.
How do we turn it around ?
We do it ONE MAN AT A TIME .
 

Luthor Rex

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squirrels said:
This shouldn't surprise anyone by now.

There are two kinds of people in the world...those that run their lives according to the liberal media, and those that run their own. If you're the latter, you really don't have to worry about this kind of crap.

Carry on.
The only thing that concerns me is that these douchebags who write these kinds of things infuluence people and therefore influence the vote.

I don't want some man-hating politician being elected to office and setting public policy.

:rockon:
 
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Say "No" to masculine Hos!!!!
 
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