Are you better or worse off after PUA/gaming?

[Naughty Ninja]

For any poster who's ever gotten into the PUA/ Gaming/ DJ Alpha crap. Do you feel you are better or worse off and or do you think a lot of this nonsense is stuff taught by weirdos to other weirdos in making them all become even bigger weirdos?

I can't help but notice whenever watching pua game field videos there seems to be a lot of foreign women in them (even if they're filmed in the US) as foreign women are naturally going to be more poilte to strangers so it looks like its 'working' on so many women. But lets face it. Walking up, meeting chicks without looking and acting like a fruit loop certainly isn't going to force them away and hurt you in the long run. Foreign or Western.

I personally never got into any PUA, Alpha, DJ B.S. and have no problems meeting chicks all the time as well as having relationships with ones I choose to and vice versa. My first relationship at 19 years old. Waaaay before this site was even around was my ONLY problem as I was clueless. I learn from my 'failures' and improve on them without totally putting the blame on others.

If you're too into PUA or using those ridiculous terms "AMOG" (riiiiight buddy) try thinking how you're going to see yourself (at the present time) when you're older. If you have any ounce of common sense you'll see yourself as an oversized, deluded clown shoe.

Act normal. Everyday millions of dudes all around you who've never heard of PUA or waste their time with it meet chicks all the time. Never pedestalize ANY chick. Live your life for you and never make someone your whole entire world, just a part of it till you both possibly grow and become one. Be the best person you can be in life. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Smile. Say hello. Talk to chicks NORMALLY like a human being. Not as a piece of meat or your enemy. (Watch how chicks pick up on that and you'll see them more attracted to you) If they still act like a moron you keep it ZEN like. No effect on you. And you have the power to simply walk away and never look back. It's not rocket science. You can either choose to be NORMAL and use the little good tips and advice to work FOR you. OR you can immerse yourself in the delusions of others and become an insane whack job like pretty much most of the other buffoons in this PUA/Alpha/DJ garbage. If normal dudes can meet chicks all the time. SO CAN YOU. Don't fvck it up by PUA/ALPHA/DJing yourself to failure.

 

[DonJuanabe]

I don't think that Alpha/DJ is the same thing as PUA. Alpha/DJ is similar to what you discussed about yourself - it is a mindset and an attitude about yourself and your life and how you interact with others. Being Alpha/DJ is kind of like being self-actualized. You attain a level of enlightenment about yourself as a man and no longer do things like pedestalize women or you know when to cut your losses and avoid contracting oneitis.

PUA is lines, games, and gimmicks.

They are not the same.

 

[Mr.SomeoneElse]

From what you've described it seems that you are more natural at it than most, which is great.
However, you have to keep in mind there are some people out there that are way worse off and really need the help.
The kind that can't keep a conversation going if there lives depended on it.
That's what all the gimmicks like routines and patterns are for.
They're just to help these type of guys get there foot in the door, to show them that they can interact with woman.
If you've ever followed anyones progress you'll notice they start off doing these things, gimmicks etc.. then evolve slowly into what you've described.
A calm, cool approach on how they captivate woman.

As for all the terms, AMOG, NEGs etc..
I agree they are f*cking cheesy names
But they do exist, it's just a way to identify social infrastructure in groups.
It's all real, whether you like it or not,
there are Alpha males, its nature, it's proven. Same goes with the ideal that people want, naturally, what they can't have. Cat string theory etc.. All of this does exist, you just might not have to focus on it as much as others have to. Just keep in mind that it does help people that are more socially awkward than yourself.

The way I see this forum, is a way for men to better themselves with the help of others.
And trust me, first hand the lessons taught in this spread into all aspects of life, not just with woman.
And having those cheesy terms, are just easy ways for us to identify what the person is talking about, to better assess and help out social situations. Some people do need to go through these lessons.

 

[alxrose04]

I've been on this site for a while, and I've seen the change from DJ to all this PUA stuff. Like the other guys have been saying, there is a difference between DJ and the whole PUA thing; each having it's own place. I agree. All the AMOG, and DHV terms and costumes are stupid but Mr.Someonelse was right when he said that they are there for those that have no idea how to start a conversation. There are guys out there that are paralyzed by this and these routines gives them the ability to "ride the bike with no training wheels" And for them that's their holy grail; just being able to talk to a girl. And if they achieve that, then more power to them. But they'll start to become mindless idiots if they don't evolve from that.

Eventually, they'll start to see how frivolouos this can become and they'll start to aspire to something better (which is what the whole DJ movement is about). They'll stop worrying about NEG and AMOGS and will start doing more important things like connecting with other people, helping other people and improving their lives as well as their own which is as DJ-ing is all about.

 

[blind_one]

What ninja said is very inspirig and somewhat true, but I feel you have to come to a point in your life that you are excited for the upcomming day, which brings endless opportunities, and bear in mind the little/stupid things are the ones that truly make you happy don't they ?

For example take this, I've had my day off pre arranged and although it didn't go as planned it was still not bad. I work in a nearby grocery store and had to do some shopping , so I with my headphones cool black shirt and a diffirent hairdo I took a stroll in the sun around the area as I entered the shop with a big smile I said: "What's up" to the cutie which was working around the entrance she didnt get what was going on at first but then she smiled and said hi as if I was emanating an aura of friendliness around. Bantered with the cashier and the girl by the entrance bout how it sucks to be working on sunday on such a beautiful day and that I should put them in a shoping cart and take them to the beach

It's one of the reasons I frequent sosuave for all those little or not, inspiring and motivating posts. I'm sure everyone has at least one story about a day that was basicly sh!t for the most part and had a twist to it like a random call from a friend you wouldnt expect to call, inviting you to hang with him/her and some other male/female friend which can brighten your day tremendously.

As to conversations, if you are actually interested in what people are saying and take your time listening and asking small questions about it, they will think good of you.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

From what you've described it seems that you are more natural at it than most, which is great.

I'm not a natural at all. Just a NORMAL everyday dude who uses self-reflection at times and learns from mistakes I may have made no matter how bad another person had or has treated me. (Doesn't mean I keep them in my life. It means I learn and grow from the experience and keep it to use in case a situation arises again.) I also realise I simply cannot control any one let alone a chick. (No Taliban mentality) They have their lives as should I. Also I'm the type to not let 'success' go to my head. I keep it Zen like. If it works out it works out. If it doesn't it doesn't.

Once you let go of your ego and stubborness, improve yourself to be the best you can be, keep it friendly, social, and not let anyone try to take your kindness for weakness (that means learning and moving on from those types and NEVER going back to repeat the same mistakes), work out for your own physical health and looking good, dressing and grooming yourself as best you can while not driving yourself insane going over and over mistakes you might have made you become a better person. What you put out to the universe is what you will start getting back. There are no failures in life. ONLY if you learn and GROW from them.

When I had my first girlfriend YEARS AND YEARS ago and got used, abused, cheated on God knows how many times, and eventually dumped for a 'better' guy... Though she was trash and I wound up being bitter and negative towards all chicks for a few YEARS. I eventually looked at myself in the mirror so to speak and said: NN What the fvck is wrong with you?? And got sick of hearing MY OWN self. Gave my self a proverbial S.T.F.Uppercut, stopped obsessing over 'what went wrong', learned from the experience, grew, and moved on letting my OWN nonsense go. Once I let go of my own B.S. and learned from experiences without obsessing over them I literally became immune to nonsense. It doesn't mean people won't try some B.S or haven't since. I just don't bother with those people for my own bettering. Period.

Try being normal for a change. Not some weirdo who has to rely on routines and be some whacked out "Alpha" robot. Your own well being will thank you for it.

 

[floydb25]

Pretty much the same. I don't act fake, or get into all this game, because it just attracts fake people, players, jerks, etc. I think a lot of people develop a sort of revengeful mindset - where, they get hurt by one of these types, and their games - then turn it around and use it on others. But, all they're doing is attracting the same kind of person they despise, because they're the only ones into this stuff. Also, when you act like a jerk - you're going to attract the kind of women you couldn't before... But that's not a good thing. Count it as a blessing when you get rejected by a cruel, heartless, manipulative *****. Attracting a crazy ***** isn't good, and they're going to flock to you.

It took me a while to realize this, and that I was just going around in circles - continuously feeding the beast that haunted me. I don't care about a lot of stuff I used to. Fitting in, being cool, landing hot chicks, having all these women around, associating with the popular crowd. It's mostly just a fake and shallow lifestyle. I can't stand any of those people. It's not worth gaming them, or associating with them whatsoever.

I hang out with nice, decent, down-to-earth, intelligent, semi-geeky people nowadays. They don't give a **** about any of this stuff; you don't have to game them. Only the prissy *****es, snobby ****s, crazy sluts, popular / fake girls are into that kind of thing. I hate those types with a passion, and refuse to get sucked into their bull**** simply to attract them - when they're not even worth it.

One thing I do believe in, and this site can help with, is improving yourself and your mindset. That's where it all starts and ends - with you. If you're insecure, needy, obsessive, etc - you aren't going to attract ANYONE - much less women. Plus, its not fun to be miserable and crazy as a result of your own issues. So, I like that aspect. Don't give a **** about game - its just being natural; out-going, independent, confident, of sufficient self-esteem, etc. That's all you need, and what a lot of people lack, and try to make up for by being fake and retarded.

 

[FairShake]

I think PUA helped me get some fake confidence but it stunted me emotionally and in maturation.

HOWEVER, that fake confidence eventually became real and the interactions with women eventually became real. It sent me down a path that eventually worked into the semi-well-adjusted person typing this out to strangers today. If nothing else PUA (in theory) gets guys off the couch and out into life. Even if they don't get laid all that much it's success is in giving them confidence to get in the game.

I've known so many guys who study PUA, embrace the concepts, meet a woman they like, and drop the shadier and scummier aspects. It's all a part of growing up.

 

[DonJuanabe]

NN and Floyd: you're missing the point. I could write a few paragraphs, like you did, in describing mentality and attitude or I could simply use the term Alpha. Because that is the label for what you described. Being Alpha doesn't mean you're a jerk or a douche. It means you are confident, you don't worry about what you can't control, you respect people and deserve respect, you don't waste you time and energy over negative things, etc. And when it comes to women, they sense all of this in your personality and thus you have an easier time attracting and keeping them. Not because you're fake but because you are desirable.

 

[FG'man]

My hopelessness with a girl was what drove me to this place. I was a nice guy, even though not as nice, as he is always described. Sometimes even I got a chick, but the humpiness killed the relationship. Then that girl came, I was just being friends with her at the start (we became best friends after some time) , but after getting to know her, I fell in love. Or more like I fell into the depths of Oneitis. I pedestalized her, I was clingy, and let's not talk about myself-confidence, it was more or less in the cellar. After some time, she used me as an emotional tampon and I told her that I didn't want to be one. She then said to me, that we should probably talk about friendship.

That was one of the moreorless cruel lessons I learned. Women have a different definition of friendship than men. Friendship for them is talking about problems, texting and somewhere in the back is hanging out.
Mens definiton of friendship is hanging out, partying and pretty much everything thats fun.
I don't know if this applies to you in the Uk or USA or whereever too, but that's, how things go around here in my country.

Our friendship was somewhat crumbling apart after this onlineconversation. I tried to repair it abit after that but she was repulsing. As time came, I fell into some kind of depression and I immersed myself into the gargantuan amount of articles and quick tips and I learned many things.

Now, after some time, I recovered and I came like a butterfly out of it's cocoon. I began seriously working on my dreams, I began losing fat, which was a very hard thing to do for me. I began spending more time with my friends and I began many more things. That girl, let's call her Anna, remains as a memento for me now. We're still friends, but not best anymore. We talk sometimes, but we haven't met anymore since that time.

This was now one month and it was an exciting month. All in all, I can only say that SoSuave and the DJism made a better man out of me. Thank you.

And before I forget it, PUA and DJ is NOT the same. Period.

 

[Mr.SomeoneElse]

I'm not a natural at all. Just a NORMAL everyday dude who uses self-reflection at times and learns from mistakes I may have made no matter how bad another person had or has treated me. (Doesn't mean I keep them in my life. It means I learn and grow from the experience and keep it to use in case a situation arises again.) I also realise I simply cannot control any one let alone a chick. (No Taliban mentality) They have their lives as should I. Also I'm the type to not let 'success' go to my head. I keep it Zen like. If it works out it works out. If it doesn't it doesn't.

Once you let go of your ego and stubborness, improve yourself to be the best you can be, keep it friendly, social, and not let anyone try to take your kindness for weakness (that means learning and moving on from those types and NEVER going back to repeat the same mistakes), work out for your own physical health and looking good, dressing and grooming yourself as best you can while not driving yourself insane going over and over mistakes you might have made you become a better person. What you put out to the universe is what you will start getting back. There are no failures in life. ONLY if you learn and GROW from them.

When I had my first girlfriend YEARS AND YEARS ago and got used, abused, cheated on God knows how many times, and eventually dumped for a 'better' guy... Though she was trash and I wound up being bitter and negative towards all chicks for a few YEARS. I eventually looked at myself in the mirror so to speak and said: NN What the fvck is wrong with you?? And got sick of hearing MY OWN self. Gave my self a proverbial S.T.F.Uppercut, stopped obsessing over 'what went wrong', learned from the experience, grew, and moved on letting my OWN nonsense go. Once I let go of my own B.S. and learned from experiences without obsessing over them I literally became immune to nonsense. It doesn't mean people won't try some B.S or haven't since. I just don't bother with those people for my own bettering. Period.

Try being normal for a change. Not some weirdo who has to rely on routines and be some whacked out "Alpha" robot. Your own well being will thank you for it.

You don't need to lecture me on this.
What you're not understanding is Natural IS Normal.
There are a lot of guys out there that CAN'T do this on their own and that's the purpose all the material serves.
For whatever reasons they aren't equipped with 'Normal' social skills so learn from the bible and pua's for advice.

IMO You're over-exaggerating everyone on this forum as 'robots' when that isn't nearly the case at all.
The whole point of the forum is to learn from one another and we just use those terms to identify situations easier.
If we're reading a FR and he says a guy was the AMOG of the group - that instantly puts a picture in our head of what he was dealing with.
Get it?

 

[floydb25]

You don't need to lecture me on this.
What you're not understanding is Natural IS Normal.
There are a lot of guys out there that CAN'T do this on their own and that's the purpose all the material serves.
For whatever reasons they aren't equipped with 'Normal' social skills so learn from the bible and pua's for advice.

IMO You're over-exaggerating everyone on this forum as 'robots' when that isn't nearly the case at all.
The whole point of the forum is to learn from one another and we just use those terms to identify situations easier.
If we're reading a FR and he says a guy was the AMOG of the group - that instantly puts a picture in our head of what he was dealing with.
Get it?

Hmmmm... Never looked at it that way. I guess we all have our own perspectives. When you are a certain way - you kind of automatically perceive others in the same light. You don't think this guy is having problems in the social skills arena, for instance, because you don't, so you assume its a non-issue. You're just going by your mindset. Or when you don't finish last as a nice guy, you assume no one else does. Always putting yourself in other people's shoes through your mindset.

And what Abe said. I always tied alpha's with douche bags, players, and jerks. The more commanding, dominant, leading, charming types who didn't give a ****. When I was one, it was the same story. I was a douche bag ******* player. It kind of just comes with the territory. I wouldn't consider myself alpha these days. Just normal, but not weak. It's not important to have all these followers respecting you, and having all these women surrounding you, or whatever. Couldn't care less. But that's how I view an alpha. Something like Will Smith in Bad Boys.

 

[DonJuanabe]

Look at Alpha from a woman's perspective: who is the most Alpha man she has ever known? Her father. Alpha does not mean you are a ****, conceited, cruel, etc. It means you command respect. Respect is the most important emotion a woman can have for you -- without it she cannot love, or possibly even like, you.

 

[FG'man]

Look at Alpha from a woman's perspective: who is the most Alpha man she has ever known? Her father. Alpha does not mean you are a ****, conceited, cruel, etc. It means you command respect. Respect is the most important emotion a woman can have for you -- without it she cannot love, or possibly even like, you.

That's a pearl of wisdom.

 

[Love's Orphan]

Im doing better. Im losing some friends in the process but those things happen. Once i understood hypergamy i started to predict women. My personality has changed very much. I dont orbit or follow the friendship route to sex anymore. Kino was one thing that i found hard to accept because i followed Doc Love's book (luckily i didnt buy it). Im not a fan of pua and lines but some stuff works like negs. Every girl around me is being overkilled with compliments, negs create a contrast. I remember my confidence was super low. I was a needy bastard. Then, i became the cold *******. Finally i began calibrating myself towards the middle, the sexual guy with the "i dont need you to be happy" vibe. Im getting there slowly.
Game is not bedding xxx women but a quest for self improvement. The women you bed is because of that improvement, like a bonus. Get closer to power and women will want to get close to you.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

You don't need to lecture me on this.
What you're not understanding is Natural IS Normal.
There are a lot of guys out there that CAN'T do this on their own and that's the purpose all the material serves.
For whatever reasons they aren't equipped with 'Normal' social skills so learn from the bible and pua's for advice.

IMO You're over-exaggerating everyone on this forum as 'robots' when that isn't nearly the case at all.
The whole point of the forum is to learn from one another and we just use those terms to identify situations easier.
If we're reading a FR and he says a guy was the AMOG of the group - that instantly puts a picture in our head of what he was dealing with.
Get it?

I'll be your 'natural'. Hahaha

What I'm saying is: Why is it so difficult for some..never said all..to be normal and not having to follow constant scripts..which most never seem to follow. Read numerous threads.

As far as "Alpha" goes...Real dudes who are "Alpha" don't talk about it nor call themselves "Alpha"..they shun the clownish titles and just do them.

But I understand it's to shorten things to make it easier for everyone to understand. Carry on.

 

[betheman]

Look at Alpha from a woman's perspective: who is the most Alpha man she has ever known? Her father. Alpha does not mean you are a ****, conceited, cruel, etc. It means you command respect. Respect is the most important emotion a woman can have for you -- without it she cannot love, or possibly even like, you.

this is the real deal, in the majority of cases anyway, not all fathers are good or command respect but most do and will.
I am a father, my daughters knew who was boss, they knew who would die for them at the same time to protct them.
you can take it further, physically, when she they are young, you tower over them (why women like tall guys?) even though Im onyl 5'8-9 when they are young they still look up at you, you pick them up, throw them around and they love it, that stuff dissipates over time but it never goes away.

as for the PU sh!t? the need to be confident, have your own mind, not to put them on a pedestal, bust them now and then, NOT TO PUT UP WITH SH!TE! is important, cheesy pick up routines, talking like some salesguy on crack, stopping strnagers in the street....not for me.
its not all bad, dont dismiss it, just dont take it all to literally and find out which parts of it work for you. it can make you feel a failure if you try it and suck at it, that can knock your confidence further.

 

[synergy1]

i'll admit that I read the game and it was inspiring. The appeal was that regular guys who used to suck at talking to women could change for the better and get what they wanted. I used to not be so good at talking to women and used the PUA game stuff to motivate me to get better. Terms like alpha, afc, amog etc never made it into my vernacular - it was all about the interactions one could have once they were out of their shell.

A few of you guys have been saying it, and I agree ; its best to be natural. This can also be difficult for people since everyone is always trying to act/be someone they aren't. Not to sound haughty, but one of the reasons as of late that I am doing better at getting women than my friends is I do just that. Its easy to get into conversations without worrying about gimmiks, etc and just be me. However, I do borrow some of the concepts that the PUA community put out there. One guy ( I think his name was craig, or gimble from the Game) had an interesting approach which is something I seem to emulate these days.

For me, the best medicine is having fun. When I am on the chase and that is it, typically I don't get many numbers. When I am with people I like and enjoying myself, the women will approach me.