Are you afraid of becoming what you hate?

[socjim86]

Throughout my journey into the knowledge of how to attract and pick up women, I will begin to notice a change in the type of behavior I will be exhibiting. I mean let's face it, some of this stuff may come natural to me as I progress, but for now it's still new to me, and going against my natural and instinctive behavorial actions with women.
The more material I read about becoming "Alpha males" (from multiple sources just to gain different perspectives), the more I am reminded about guys in college in frats that were always around women (sometimes successful, sometimes not) who exhibited many of these qualities. They included talking down to, being sexual around, and being playful (overly touchy might I add) around women. My friends and I had a word to describe these guys: DOUCHBAGS. I am not implying that learning the art of seduction will automatically turn every one of us into a shovenistic overly touchy feely, arrogant douchbag who puts down or drowns out other males to be the center of attention. I do however, note concern with the way I will feel when I begin to sexualize conversations with women, become more touchy and feely, and (whether I intend to or not) become more centrally focused in social scenarios like partys or get togethers.
Do you see what I am getting at here? Does anyone feel like they might become one of the guys they always thought were buttholes, and sort of feel like a hypocrite for it? If so, is this means to an end really worth the possible internal self-deprecation?

 

[Iceberg]

I understand what you're saying. But really, it's all about becoming the definition of an (alpha/DJ/whatever) that YOU want to be. Not becoming one the way anyone else defines it.

The reason you disliked those Douchebag frat alphas was because they were trying too hard. They're shouting insults at their friends, slapping random girls on the as*, basically drawing attention to themselves in a lame way.

But there are alphas out there who would introduce themselves, offer you a beer, and a tour of the party, instead of cursing, high-fiving, and being creepy-sexual with chicks. What I'm saying is....you don't have to do this in the corny, "look at how alpha I am" sort of way. You can take charge of a room by being friendly and welcoming instead of being loud and belligerent. You can make people want to be a part of your social circle instead of trying to force it upon them.

I'd recommend avoiding any thoughts of "alpha" in the first place. Once you're social, and accomplished, and happy, and getting women, that "alpha" stuff will fall into place on its own.

 

[Ease]

No-one is forcing you to become a 'douchebag' like me. You can continue having your old life if you like.

Top dogs will stand on top of the betas, it is life. If you are one of the betas getting stood on then it is only natural to call them 'douche bags'.

 

[PapiChulo]

Yes, you gotta become that guy you hated in high-school. It is like switching camps! At some point you may even realize how pathetic or naive you were previously! It doesn't mean that you have to believe in one thing and do another, the trick is to see things for what they really are and act according to it. Most AFCs are blind to what a woman is.....

 

[Punisha]

I had the exact same thought about 2 days ago but then i realized that those douchbags were just jerks and since both jerks and DJs are fun to be around and are sexual to women you will find some resemblace between them in that way

 

[st_99]

you certainly don't need to be a frat boy or slap chicks on the a$$ to be alpha BUT, you do need to touch girls. Kino is important, it breaks the friend barrier.

 

[socjim86]

Iceberg you have the best post by far. Some of the other posts are taking a more black and white approach to it. My strategy involves finding a balance between douchbag and respectful, funny, smart and courteous gentleman. And trust me, if you saw some of the guys I saw in high school and college, you probably would not even want to become anything like them. Although that implies that there outliers out there for sure, but I love the way iceberg put it: "focus on being happy, accomplished and social, and the alpha title will come naturally". IT's a great way of looking at it. Put "Alpha" on the backburn and take baby steps towards improving your life.

 

[Ease]

Iceberg you have the best post by far. Some of the other posts i dont agree with and is not what i want to hear. I want to be told that it is ok to be a beta.

Oh well that is fair enough.

 

[HGKnights]

I think a lot of us view usually viewed people who are already good with women as "douchebags". I think it's really the key state of mind of people who really believe the whole "girls only like jerks" mentality.

I don't really believe that I'm becoming a douche because I'm trying to get better with girls, because I originally had the pathetic mindset that guys who were good with girls are douches.

 

[Iceberg]

Oh well that is fair enough.

I don't think anyone is telling him to become a "beta".

Hell...to be honest, I hate the whole alpha/beta discussion because let's face it - real alphas aren't hanging out on the internet, calling themselves "alpha". They are who they are. And whatever that is, the result is people wanting to follow their lead.

I think what the original poster is getting at is, there's a difference between leading a room like a man or leading a room like a kid. You can be sexual, in-charge, and commanding, without doing it in a "douchey" way.

He uses the fratboy example because that is the college definition of alpha...Loud. Aggressive. Drunk. Once you hit those post-college years, it doesn't take long to realize that the loudest guy in the room is often the weakest guy in the room.

I don't know whether I'm alpha or not. And I don't care. But I know from experience that I can go to a party, befriend everyone there, grab a girl, and leave with everyone loving me at the end of the night. And I can do it without challenging dudes to arm wrestling or asking girls to show me their panties.

 

[Alex DeLarge]

I know what you mean. It's all about evaluating yourself for what you want though.

Personally, I've been the kinda guy that's always wanted a relationship. Then when I found this site, I've always repressed that need. I've always found picking up women to be quite easy personally. I never go for the typical club girls that like to sleep around, the girls I go for are usually more relationship type girls.

Now this is my downfall here, these girls usually lose interest in me because I don't ask them to be my girlfriend. I know we all talk about the whole "Make her ask for exclusivity" thing, but some girls just don't know how to be that up front about it.

In the past, girls that I have been seeing have said things to me like "I can't stop thinking about you!" and "You're so perfect I'm so happy we met".. This is just the girl saying "I want to be exclusive with you" in womanspeak.

Now I didn't pick up on this at the time, and the girls who told me things like this both eventually left me hanging and stopped talking to me. I had just become so jaded and cynical from reading a lot of things on here that I figured there were no good girls left and that these girls were just leading me down the drain like the rest.

These experiences and observations have helped me grow a lot past the roots of the DJ bible and expand my knowledge of social dynamics beyond.

Honestly, I'm only 21 years old. I've never been in a relationship longer than a month. Only been in two relationships, but have never been laid. I'm a really good looking guy too, and call me a pvssy or whatever you wanna call me.. I just want to find a special girl.

I'm not going to repress my empathy anymore when it comes to relations, however I still believe in the whole "The one who shows the least emotion has the most power" rule.. Showing no emotion has gotten me nowhere so far but jaded and cynical in my personal quest.

 

[zekko]

He uses the fratboy example because that is the college definition of alpha...Loud. Aggressive. Drunk. Once you hit those post-college years, it doesn't take long to realize that the loudest guy in the room is often the weakest guy in the room.

Yeah, it's all part of growing up. You might start out as a guy who's too quiet and unsure of himself. As you get older, you try different things ("switch camps" as PapiChulo said). You may become the loudmouth douchebag for awhile.

But as you get older, you realize neither of those guys are the High Value Guy. You find calibration.

 

[GhostWriter]

I asked myself this exact same question a long time ago.

Now ask yourself a better one. Who do you hate being more? A chump that doesn't get ass, or something you hate but gets the ladies.

Eventually, you'll realize that being in any other position other than the one you are in now is better!

 

[Tesl]

I've always found picking up women to be quite easy personally.

...

Honestly, I'm only 21 years old. I've never been in a relationship longer than a month. Only been in two relationships, but have never been laid.

Errr....

 

[Upside]

I asked myself this exact same question a long time ago.

Now ask yourself a better one. Who do you hate being more? A chump that doesn't get ass, or something you hate but gets the ladies.

Eventually, you'll realize that being in any other position other than the one you are in now is better!

Yeah because manipulating your own behavior for the sake of ass is always better. When you alter your behavior from chick to chick you have already lost the frame. You are reacting to her; she is not reacting to you.

 

[GhostWriter]

Yeah because manipulating your own behavior for the sake of ass is always better. When you alter your behavior from chick to chick you have already lost the frame. You are reacting to her; she is not reacting to you.

So... It's either you're a frustrated virgin who can't get women.

Or...

You become somewhat of a playboy, denying morals you once thought had merits in life. Dating multiple plates, flirting in a relationship, dominating women as if they were lesser beings, etc...

I think what most betas hate, is being a man. They perceive the power that associates with being one and that scares them. Or maybe they're scared of being judged as the big bad wolf.

I simply look at it this way, if what you're not doing isn't getting you the desired results... then you need to change your behavior and perhaps a myriad of other things.

You're trying to guilt people into thinking that they should only have to be themselves. Let's ask people on the forum, how's that been working for ya?

 

[Chamber36]

Yeah I'm still trying out the whole Nice guy -------------- Bad Boy spectrum.

I don't think there's a perfect middle way. I just think the key is to be concious of yourself. When you're tired, it will make you cranky. I'm the type of guy who is all about positivity. So when I am tired I find myself trying to hard to make people like me, but that's shining through. It would be better to just complain than to act like nothing's wrong sometimes.

You shouldn't be acting how women want you to act. If you're angry, act angry. If you're happy act happy. That's what women want. They don't want you covering up yourself.

 

[st_99]

your thread reminds me about the old saying.. "you create what you fear" which doesn't really have anything to do with the topic but interesting nonetheless.

The more you fear a girl not liking you, the more she will NOT like you, the more you fear a girl leaving you, the more likely she WILL leave you... etc.

It all makes sense because fear doesn't allow you to be natural self, you are a fraud when you operate out of fear and nobody wants to be with or enjoys being with a fraud.

 

[Chamber36]

I'm not going to repress my empathy anymore when it comes to relations, however I still believe in the whole "The one who shows the least emotion has the most power" rule.. Showing no emotion has gotten me nowhere so far but jaded and cynical in my personal quest.

I thught it was the one who cared less that had the most power.

If you truly didn't care you wouldn't be afraid to express emotion. I used to express myself all I wanted, but being an AFC it didn't bring me any progress because I didn't know the 'Alpha male code of behaviour', for example NOT LEANING IN, etc. It's just 1 tiny flaw in your game that could be ruining everything. That doens't mean you have to stop expressing yourself. You just need to learn what women Do and Don't want to hear.