Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Are you a nietzschian "SuperMan"?

DIESEL

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
2,443
Reaction score
9
Location
miami, fl, usa
Originally posted by Slickster
I won't argue about any of Nietzsche's works cuz I really know very little about it.

However anyone claiming that they are one of these *Supermen* who lives by their own rules are being sooo naive its comical.

We ALL live by the rules imposed on us by society itself.

Don't even get me started.
1. Hopefully this will inspire you to check him out.

2. It is almost impossible to become the "overman" even Nietzsche acknowledges this... it's almost like a higher state of evolution....like I said, his writing style is very powerful and direct.. it is very easy to get sucked in.

3. and yes we all live by the rules of society - this of course drove Nietzsche absolutely bonkers.
 

chlywly

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
559
Reaction score
1
Originally posted by DIESEL
I think Nietzsche for the most part is a very exhilariting read - he sort drops the equivalent of an intellectual atomic bomb on all previous philosophy - which if you break it down - other than, say Spinoza, Hobbes, Epicurus, Seneca, Socrates, Kierkegaard, Montaigne, Schopenhauer, and Camus; philosophy to me is all pretty much intellectual bullshyt, the intellectual equivalent of a dog chasing it's own tail, because other than the guys listed, most of the others spend their work talking about unanswerable shyt like if God exists, and why we are idiots/ not idiots for believing in it....whatever......


Here's a good explanation...... in "Either/Or" and "Stages on Life's Way" Kierkegaard built upon a riff from Kant.. and crystallized it so eloquently......it goes something like this: once you accept Kant's postulate that ultimate, rational human understanding of the universe that man inhabits is limited, then the question of the existence of God, in essence, becomes a moot point, and merely becomes a question of making the essential leap - either you believe or you don't believe - it literally becomes that simple. I myself choose to believe, not out of fear, nor out of some bullshyt idea of a "slave morality" like Nietzsche and Foucault would have you believe, but just because I feel it..... for that reason I just have to laugh my ass off at all these atheists who waste their time with these intellectual circle jerks writing treatises like Bertrand Russell did back in the day called "Why I am not a Christian" - to which I say... good for you.. who the fukk cares? I could give a flying fukk if you believe in God or not.. I'm not some bible thumper, I find those people just as full of shyt as most atheists do.

But, to me atheists are the epitome of intellectual egotism - since they can't rationally explain God and believers can't rationally prove the existence of God - therefore, he doesn't exist and we are naive, illogical, and stupid for being believers. Never does it seem to enter their thought process that there just might be things beyond human understanding.

Which comes back to my original point on most of western philosophy... so other than for a good head-scratching read.. what's the fukkin' point?

In that same vein I also always keep in the back of my mind that Nietzsche was a largely impotent, frustrated, misogynist (he had some serious issues with his mom and sister that caused him to hate woman-kind in general, but yet was the epitome of AFC w/women in his life), angry son of a long line of hard-core Lutheran ministers, sickly and physically weak intellectual genius. Don't you think that fukked-up a background would taint your view of the world? Yeah.. I think so too.

Perhaps this is why he wrote so passionately about the "ubermensch" and railed against morality and religion.. and also perhaps why he is also the most misunderstood and misquoted philosopher of all time! ... also, much like the equally bed-ridden and reclusive Proust who wrote so beautifully about the fleeting-ness of our personal relationships, friendships and the cruelty of our limited existence in time.. it's those who lack that in their own lives, that seem to be able to best appreciate it and put into words, much like those who do enjoy those blessings seem to totally take it for granted.

Also, I don't think you have to be an atheist to live the "Nietzschean/Camusian" lifestyle... I do think that Nietzsche was right in his criticism of modern Christianity as a bastardization of what Christ really intended in the bible... this is basically the crux of the phrase "God is Dead and you have killed him." In fact, that idea isn't even totally Nietzsche's.. Doestoyevsky writes about that very same concept in his "Grand Inquisitor" chapter in the awesome "Brothers Karamazov" some 20 years earlier.

In my interpretation, I don't really know if Nietzsche was as avowed an atheist as he is portrayed to be - I do think he was disgusted at what the project of Christianity had become in the 1800 years after Christ's death. But it's very cloudy as to whether or not he believed in some form of higher power - he did get into some Eastern style metaphysics with his whole concept of the "Eternal Return of the Same".. but it's still a very controversial topic, to be sure, and you will find various interpretations arguing for and against this view. I also find it interesting that he titled what was to be his final work, "Ecce Homo" ( meant as a summation of all his work up to that time -before he caught syphillis and went insane) - which to you Bible readers is what Pontius Pilate said to the crowd of Jews when he presented Christ to them for their judgment.

p.s Camus, not Nietzsche, lived the epitome of the DJ lifestyle. He was one of the few "action" philosophers.
Lmao you have some great points, but Nietzsche and DJ lifestyle I think NOT.
 

DIESEL

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
2,443
Reaction score
9
Location
miami, fl, usa
Originally posted by chlywly
Lmao you have some great points, but Nietzsche and DJ lifestyle I think NOT.
yeah.. for real.. can you imagine Nietzsche going on a first date?
 

So pimp its scary

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
1,678
Reaction score
3
Age
41
Location
In the C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh!
First off, I am atheist... not in the sense that I don't believe that there is a GOD, but I believe that any higher power that created 'Life the universe and Everything' (Douglas Adams, VERY good book) obviously exists on a level beyond the comprehension of a mere human. Like a fish contemplating air, or a bird contemplating what it would be like to swim under water (See my sig).

So, I understand what you mean how most philosophy is really like 'a dog chasing it's tail'. I'm not too sure about Camus, I know that he was existentialist... and not much more. But, according to the existentialists, you exist for but a brief moment, so it's imperative that you live the absolute best life that you can so that you can be like a shining star into eternity, or have your life fizzle out to non-existence on your death bed. That could explain why Camus would have been a lot more DJ then Nietzsche. I just found my copy of 'the art of seduction'... so, Lou von Salomé who was also into very dark philosophies met Nietzche, and had him seduced from the beginning. He proposed marriage, and she said no. She never responded to his compliments, and was more interested in philosophy then in settling down, but Nietzche continued to court her. (When he clearly should have nexted :))

Anyway, according to my understanding, the reason that Nietzsche called christianity a bastardization of what God would have meant by the bible is that he was raised according to the old testament, and then he found the new testament and was like, "What the fukk is this crap?"

He did say that the vilification of sex is the worst thing that christianity has done to humanity. This I agree with 100%. (I dumped my ex using this as the basis of my explanation about why waiting for sex is retarded, but this is another discussion.)

Although I don't completely agree with his view of the Overman, because Nietzsche's own description of him does contain some paradoxes (mentioning compassion as necessarily BAD as one, as this is a moral decision), and I'm surprised though that noone mentioned that Hitler used Nietzches Overman as an excuse to kill off all the Jews (the Undermen)... but you can live based on your own morality, your own code of conduct that doesn't infringe on other people, and still be a productive member of society. The only problem would be the propogation of those with their own sense of morals, because it could be a matter of time before those with their own sense of morals decides that it's morally good to kill others. So, if a base of good morals could be shown (ie. murder is bad, etc.) and then allow the person to develop their own morality for the rest of the world, that may work.
 

Atratus

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
171
Reaction score
1
Location
Utrecht, Netherlands
Originally posted by chlywly
One of his supermen wouldn't last very long in a "group" atmosphere, hence a DJ and one of those supermen are two opposites, one of his so called supermen, is really nothing more than a selfish self centered, ego powering jackass.


Originally posted by Slickster
I won't argue about any of Nietzsche's works cuz I really know very little about it.

However anyone claiming that they are one of these *Supermen* who lives by their own rules are being sooo naive its comical.

We ALL live by the rules imposed on us by society itself.

Don't even get me started.
Here, this is from the " *****ification of man " thread on the discussion forum:

I don't want to drive a Dodge Neon or Ford Taurus - I don't want 2.2 kids. A dog that I have to take care of and pick up it's Sh#t. I don't want to have to work until I'm 65 to provide for a wife that will stop putting out for me and giving me BJ's after 3 yrs of marrage. I don't want to be telling my son to live life because when he's married it'v over. I don't want to be one of those guys I see in the office all of the time - their in their 40's, tired, worn out, over weight and over worked, driving their 1995 Ford, while their wife stays at home running errands in the brand new Surburban she can't even park.

A don Juan. Lives a life by his rules.
There is no need to make a distinction between the 'rules of society' and 'standards of society' or 'average citizen lifestyle'. Nietzsche's Superman lives as a life by his rules.

I also really liked the next bit so here it is:

Has a woman - or marries a woman, not because he's scared "Oh my, is this the best woman I can get? - will I ever find someone as good looking?"

No, Don Juan has a woman because she improves his life. She's the woman who adds to him - not takes things away from him. She brings to the table and gives to him just as much as he gives to her.

yeah.. for real.. can you imagine Nietzsche going on a first date?
Only by imagining his date.
 

HMbroken

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Age
38
Location
Miami, FL
Originally posted by DIESEL
Never does it seem to enter their thought process that there just might be things beyond human understanding.
If there are things beyond human understanding, how can anyone believe in a god?

I'm not saying that I think there are things that cannot be understood by humans. It just seemed that the argument you used against atheists could be used against non-atheists as well. By believing there is a god, aren't you believing in something that cannot be understood by humans? If it can't be understood by humans, why put a name on it and write a whole book full of stories about it?
 

DIESEL

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
2,443
Reaction score
9
Location
miami, fl, usa
Originally posted by HMbroken
If there are things beyond human understanding, how can anyone believe in a god?
that is what Kierkegaard struggled with in his work. He termed it the 'paradox of the understanding" - his answer, like I said, is that it is an unanswerable question...you simply either make the leap of faith and choose to believe, or you simply don't. period.

I'm not saying that I think there are things that cannot be understood by humans. It just seemed that the argument you used against atheists could be used against non-atheists as well. By believing there is a god, aren't you believing in something that cannot be understood by humans? If it can't be understood by humans, why put a name on it and write a whole book full of stories about it?
this is why I don't bother arguing with atheists - neither position makes sense if you look at it rationally.. it's more a testament to man's sense of self-importance and intellectual vanity more than anything else. I don't think any less of atheists - most of my friends are atheist/agnostic, however I get annoyed with those atheists who consider themselves somehow "superior" or "intellectually enlightened" because they don't believe in God, and then inform you of that fact when they argue with you about God.

the concept of god is something that I believe cannot be understood by humans - the word of God, something totally different, is right there in the Bible to serve as an ethical/moral guideline for those that happen to believe in it. Nothing more.

I just got annoyed when the more zealous of the believers feel the need to ram it down non-believers' throats.
 

NMMWCR

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
220
Reaction score
0
I haven't read much Nietzsche but have done a lot of background research on him. Most of his ideas were adopted and bastardized by the Nazi party before WWII. The nazis, of course, missed the point of his writings. But he had star power and gave them convienent justification for their deeds.

The man was very much a Christian. He did not however, follow the New Testament. He told his students that it represented an impossible standard. A man could no more live the life a NT Christian than he could sh1t gold bricks. How wonderful it would be if that were possible...but alas... (paraphrased) Nietzsche, "In all of human history, there has been but one Man worthy of being called a Christian. He was brutally murdered for being so bold. Dare you attempt it yourself?"
 

DIESEL

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
2,443
Reaction score
9
Location
miami, fl, usa
Originally posted by NMMWCR
I haven't read much Nietzsche but have done a lot of background research on him. Most of his ideas were adopted and bastardized by the Nazi party before WWII. The nazis, of course, missed the point of his writings. But he had star power and gave them convienent justification for their deeds.
The irony of that is that Nietzsche pretty much predicted the rise of totalitarianism in Germany... he made many references in his work to the "blond beast and his monstrous capacity" and how disappointed he was in his fellow Germans.

Funny how the Nazis conveniently forgot that part.
 

Rahul

Don Juan
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
124
Reaction score
0
Age
39
Re: Wow, I wasn't expecting this type of response...

Originally posted by So pimp its scary
Diesel - There is a lot that I can say about your post... but Nietzsche was Christian, except he only believed the old testament...
Uh...wouldn't that make him more of a Jew than anything else?
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
896
Reaction score
0
Location
Fayetteville, Arkansas
Nietzsche is my f*cking hero. His stuff will kick you in the f*cking balls or the p*ssy.
 

So pimp its scary

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
1,678
Reaction score
3
Age
41
Location
In the C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh!
Originally posted by Ded_Skin_Mask13
Nietzsche is my f*cking hero. His stuff will kick you in the f*cking balls or the p*ssy.
ROFLMAO! But seriously... who was that aimed at?
 

Don Giovanni

Don Juan
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
24
Reaction score
4
God of War

What do you say to all of this, God of War?
 

Ar7

Don Juan
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
143
Reaction score
0
Location
Australia
Originally posted by 00Kevin
this is basically the same concept of satanism.
Agreed..

QUOTE 1:
Originally posted by So pimp its scary
" Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment... "
I thought it was the tide of evolution taught mankind compassion for our fellow beings and lesser beings. In the void of compassion how is Overman any different than the less evolved, "The Beast"? Other than the fact that he is the pinnacle of egotism.

PS: BTW this is the first time I have head of him, so forgive me if I had overlooked anything.
 

So pimp its scary

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Messages
1,678
Reaction score
3
Age
41
Location
In the C-A-N-A-D-A-Eh!
I suppose by the strict definition laid out in thus spake zarathustra, he talks about having no compassion for the weak... and it's easy to assume that that would mean no compassion at all.... and in the strictest sense of the literature that may be true. The part of no compassion is the part that I have difficulty with, because Nietzsche claims that the Overman will have no compassion because this allows the weak to hold back humans on the whole, BUT, if that were true then in the end the Overmen would seek to destroy all of the lesser men (probably part of what brought on the Nazi germany). Also, I have difficulty with his not accepting Compassion, because compassion is a moral choice... and the Overman is supposed to create his own morality.
 

Blaaaaat

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Age
43
Location
Amsterdam
I think it's not compassion where Nietzsche was falling over. It's is to suffer along with the "weak" problems. As there's something holy in suffering; like the symboll of christianity, the cross. To suffer along with the weak is never constructive, but it is decadent. And we DJ's should somehow relate with this, DJ is about improving yourself, and no to possion our thoughts with the "belowmans" (AFC???) decadent views on life. Compassion is a bad translation from German to English. In german the word for compassion is "Mitleid" and a better translation for that word is "suffer with".

Also, I've never read anything from Nietzsche that implies that the Ubermensch should destroy the "lesser" humans.
 
Last edited:

WaterTiger

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
1,720
Reaction score
35
Location
Wine Country, Ca
Originally posted by So pimp its scary
I suppose by the strict definition laid out in thus spake zarathustra, he talks about having no compassion for the weak... and it's easy to assume that that would mean no compassion at all.... and in the strictest sense of the literature that may be true. The part of no compassion is the part that I have difficulty with, because Nietzsche claims that the Overman will have no compassion because this allows the weak to hold back humans on the whole, BUT, if that were true then in the end the Overmen would seek to destroy all of the lesser men (probably part of what brought on the Nazi germany). Also, I have difficulty with his not accepting Compassion, because compassion is a moral choice... and the Overman is supposed to create his own morality.
I think it also depends on how you define "weak". Are weak are those who refuse to help themselves, who live off the system and collect their needless disability checks? Or are the weak those who are simply "not" Overmen?

Chimps may be beneath us on the evolutionary scale, but even they show compassion within their family troops. They show affection to each other and even comfort and share food with the injured members. They do not have any "morals" to base this on, it's a behavior that strengthens the bond of the troop. It's good for the group, not because a monkey god told them to.

If this is the behavior that the Overman is leaving behind...what's the future going to be?
 

Draguignan

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by DIESEL
Don't you think that snobbish attitude is something ol' Friedrich would rip on you for...? didn't he write that as students of his work, that you should come down from the mountain and educate the "filthy masses milling about like flies in the marketplace".....he predicted that his work would be misunderstood by the masses - and I figured he created an expectation in those who did "get" his message to explain it to those that "didn't get it"

What say you to that?
Let's face it, the average man on the street will not appreciate Nietzsche. I have no interest in trying to educate others about his ideas.
 

Blaaaaat

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Age
43
Location
Amsterdam
Well this board isn't filled with the "average man". So why don't you give it a try?
 

myfriendblu

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Messages
907
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by Starman


Nietczhe is pretty much saying religion is a crutch..that keeps man hanging on false beliefs about how "some god" will save him..(i.e. living in a fantasy world)


he was a die hard athiest
I like this guy, i will have to do some research on him. I totally agree that religion is nothing but a crutch. Die hard athiest? I second the notion. :D
 
Top