Are most guys born with "game"? are they are born with the social-skills?

[Iceberg]

So is "game" something you have to be born with?

If it is, does that mean you're going to give up with women?

 

[loveshogun]

If it is, does that mean you're going to give up with women?

Remember that guy initiatorhater06? This guy reminds me a lot of him.

If it walks a troll, and smells like a troll, and hangs out under bridges like a troll...

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

If it is, does that mean you're going to give up with women?

yeah then i very likely should, i'll just **** hookers and escorts instead, no "game" required for that

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Remember that guy initiatorhater06? This guy reminds me a lot of him.

If it walks a troll, and smells like a troll, and hangs out under bridges like a troll...

why do you think i'm trolling? i just want explanation, details, as to why some guys are natural-born strugglers with girls, but other guys have been pulling girls almost their entire life. For example, the jocks, gang-members, they always pulled, attracted the cuties, hottie's, and it's like they never once suffered from "nice-guy syndrome", they were instantly born with game from day one. As in, do genetics influence, are a reason as to why guys are born with the ability to know how to talk to women and approach them, start conversations with them.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Its not that hard to figure out. It all depends on what you consider to be valuable.
A so called "nice guy" puts sex on a high pedistle, and hot women on a very high (out of reach) pedistle,
Where as a so called "natural" does not highly value women.
The more you value something the harder it is to obtain it.
the less you value it the easier it comes to you.
thats why most people born in to poverty stay poor, they value wealth to highly and it runs away from them.
By the way I am a zen master, it don't come easy this wisdom.

putting something on a pedestal, is that another way of being desperate? as in, another phrase, as in a synonym for desperate?
but overall, how are the jocks in high school naturally born with the confidence, the balls from day one, and social-skills, conversation-skills, flirting skills in order to pull girls? is there any logic in that?

 

[HBK]

I think it depends on many variables, such as your growing up environment, influences, your parents etc. We all grow through puberty, and are shaped by our experiences and relationships with the opposite sex. Some guys take longer than others to "come out of their shell". Hell we all know the "bad boys" in our towns growing up, the girls loved them. The thing is, those "bad boys" i grew up with are all still at home, much older, single fathers, and nobody wants to be near them.

For me personally, when in my teen's, i was very shy with the ladies. I played sports, guitar, and hung out with the guys more than girls. I usually got oneitis about a chick, waited for ages to ask them out, blew it, into the friend zone, and felt like crap for months after. I didn't know what to say to girls, so i hung around guys that did. I took up bad habits like smoking, drinking etc to see if that would make them "like me" lol

However, i knew deep down that there was something in me waiting to breakout. Once I left my home town and when to Uni, all HELL broke loose. I became comfortable living away from home, and confident being around girls. I also had some great new mates that really "knew" how to talk to the ladies. I came here to Sosuave in 2002...my God that long... and started learning all I could about the correct attitude, and not placing women on a pedestals etc. I felt I had hit the jackpot with all this knowledge at my disposal. But reading and learning is one thing, applying what you have learnt is different. My results were astounding.

I certainly have had up's and downs in relationships, and particular the last one left me very broken. I needed to get away for a while and fix my thinking, and readjust my life, not just relationship wise. But since then I have regrouped, and remembered that confident Alpha attitude that needs to be kept always.

Some day in the future, I want to have my own family. If I have a son, I want to spend time with him, and help him gain confidence in all aspects of his life. Like a lot of guys, my father didn't spend time with me, he was oldskool as he was busy. That's OK. I accept that, and times have changed. But it's our duty to the next generation, to help, advise and encourage young men to come out of their shells, not being "PUA", but being real confident, happy, men.

For me, number 1 was moving away from home, relying on myself, studying hard and getting the career i wanted, not depending on anybody else for handouts helped shaped me and made me who i am.

Women came next. And they always did.

 

[PappyS]

First of all, those kinds of guys probably started developing those skills before they hit puberty. Second, a lot of times the guys who screw the girls from Junior High School are the ones who are sexually aggressive and pushy. The ones who are shy or not aggressive enough don't get laid.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

First of all, those kinds of guys probably started developing those skills before they hit puberty. Second, a lot of times the guys who screw the girls from Junior High School are the ones who are sexually aggressive and pushy. The ones who are shy or not aggressive enough don't get laid.

yeah, even the shy or non-aggressive guys, true they are very likely not aggressive enough, but even if they were as aggressive as those kinda of guys who developed those skills before they hit puberty, the guys that pull all of the girls in junior high and high school, they would get rejected a lot, as in they would not know what to say to a girl and when to say it, how to talk, etc. So it comes down to more than just aggressiveness, assertiveness, you have to know what to say and when to say it

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Also, is it true that Neil Strauss used to have horrible, terrible, bad luck with women? he got rejected frequently, constantly, he was a guy that was not born with "game", or born with the talking skills, people-skills, communication-skills, social-skills, conversation-skills that are required in order to pull women? whether it is for dating, actual boyfriend/girlfriend relationships, or hook-ups, one-night stands, casual sex, etc.?
Because i'm thinking of reading "The Game", his most famous book.

 

[comic_relief]

all learnable, I managed to do it, and so can anyone else

- comic_relief

 

[ladyzman]

Was born with it.

You know you're a natural when reading seduction stuff does more bad than good for you.

 

[Eternal_water]

Its both

Obviously genetics is going to play a role in the type of person you are, its your blueprint.

environment and lifestyle is going to play a role as well. If you happen to make outgoing friends you stand a good chance.

 

[Atom Smasher]

The only consistent thing I've observed among the guys who come here are that either their father was absent or he just didn't set a good example for his son. I think that is the biggest factor of all.

'zacly!

 

[Atom Smasher]

I hate to say it, but I think that naturals actually like women and AFCs don't. Naturals just have a "Meh, women are women" mentality and don't hold them to any kind of accountability, whereas average guys think "wtf is she doing that for?"

Also, naturals tend to go with the flow of an interaction, while most guys think of her and every interaction as a thing to be manipulated.

 

[Ringleader41]

I do agree. My friend grew up treating his mom like **** and he's pulling girls right now because he doesn't put them on a pedestal or anything. A girl has never broken his heart either.

 

[Mike32ct]

OP:

If you haven't already, read what I said in "The dating game is really a game of luck?" thread posted by JPlaya.

It's not ALL about game and nice guy vs. bad boy temperments. Sometimes an average looking guy with minimal game is able to score cute girlfriends because of being in the right social circle at the right time.

Just by a fortunate "accident" of knowing the right people at the right time, it can be a huge confidence booster to the guy and eventually turn him into a natural.

Even in high school, not every guy in the popular clique is super good looking or a jock. Some of them are regular guys that just happen to be friends with some of the popular people. While they might not get the head cheerleader, their social circle opens them up to some pretty girls.

So don't assume that every guy that gets cute girls is somehow "alpha" or "badboy" or has some mysterious thing like "confidence" or "swagger.". He may well develop these things as a CONSEQUENCE of getting women, but the primary cause of his success is his fortunate fruitful social scene that got him women to begin with.

 

[MrJibbles]

From day one we are born with a genetic predisposition to introversion/extroversion, passivity/aggression, neuroticism (or lack thereof), and certain levels of hormones (i.e. testosterone). The environment will help shape how this predisposition works out. Social skills are not inherited, per se, but your genetic makeup will definitely have an influence on how they will turn out.

It all comes down to feedback loops. If you were hitting on girls as a young teenagers and girls respond positively, your confidence will grow and grow. Likewise, if you've been shy most of your life and have been rejected by girls, your confidence (and in turn, your social skills) will dwindle in a vicious cycle.

I would say certain guys are MORE LIKELY to develop better social skills than others.

Also, like somebody mentioned, the lack of a good father figure can heavily influence your success with women, considering he is your main source in life on how a man should act and display masculinity. From personal experience, my dad was timid, unaggressive, lacked charm, etc., and this definitely influenced me to act as such. I think this was a combination of genetics and environment, in that case.

Can good social skills be learned? Yes. But it will take MUCH longer than for somebody is naturally extroverted and sexually-aggressive. In addition, some people will plateau at a lower level than others.

 

[ilikecharlene]

I think social skills are innate.

Some people are better at reading social cues, and interacting with others in general. This explains things like Asperger's. Even those who are "normal" sometimes have poor relational skills. Some are rude, others grumpy, others impatient.

Whilst everybody is born with social skills, they can be developed. An analogy is physical strength. This obviously can be built upon and developed, even though physical strength levels differ from person to person.

 

[razorbum]

I wouldn't say that I got really good game or what, but it's a series of trial, error and learning. I can't kiss close well or what yet, but from someone who stutters when they talk to girls, now I'm constantly being told that I can hold up my own conversation with women really well. They love conversations with me.

I guess we learn in our own ways, and you can't learn unless you're prepared to try, and prepared to fail. Some guys just pick it up easier I guess.

 

[HBK]

OP:

If you haven't already, read what I said in "The dating game is really a game of luck?" thread posted by JPlaya.

It's not ALL about game and nice guy vs. bad boy temperments. Sometimes an average looking guy with minimal game is able to score cute girlfriends because of being in the right social circle at the right time.

Just by a fortunate "accident" of knowing the right people at the right time, it can be a huge confidence booster to the guy and eventually turn him into a natural.

Even in high school, not every guy in the popular clique is super good looking or a jock. Some of them are regular guys that just happen to be friends with some of the popular people. While they might not get the head cheerleader, their social circle opens them up to some pretty girls.

So don't assume that every guy that gets cute girls is somehow "alpha" or "badboy" or has some mysterious thing like "confidence" or "swagger.". He may well develop these things as a CONSEQUENCE of getting women, but the primary cause of his success is his fortunate fruitful social scene that got him women to begin with.

Yeah I would agree with this. It happened to me. Played football and all that, but still i was very shy when it came to the ladies. But in that circle, I was introduced to plenty girl's, but with having no game, i was doomed to failure and making the same mistakes. And that wont change unless you want to change your life.

Same again in college, i was more confident now, and began to come out of my shell. By being funny, ****y and learning as much as i could from Sosuave etc. I learned to relax around women. I also expanded my social circle, and had lots of fun. As the years go by, women become less and less of a priority to the point, where you enjoy focusing your energy and time on different aspects of your life. A woman is not your main priority in life. She's lucky to be part of it.

To be honest, if you really want to change your life, and have success with the ladies, you need to apply what you learn here, grab your balls and take risks. The worst thing a woman can say is no. It's all about confidence, and through trial and error you will succeed. After a while you find out what works, and what doesn't work for you. Don't take it serious, and have fun. More important things to worry about in life.