Are men dropping off from the dating business?

[BaronOfHair]

If women ceased to exist hypothetically then advice like that would be meaningless.

Life still goes on, even after your slice vanishes... Thus, you're wise to keep putting effort into yourself

On a side-note: This stuff can all become a vicious cycle, in that women are frequently drawn to men who already have women, ESPECIALLY beautiful and sexy ones... Thus, so much fiction crrated by and for women depicts the heroine hooking up with a man who's "forbidden". Ergo, if we continue retreating from public life, the less likely we are to get our needs and desires met

 

[Slowhandluke]

Life still goes on, even after your slice vanishes... Thus, you're wise to keep putting effort into yourself

On a side-note: This stuff can all become a vicious cycle, in that women are frequently drawn to men who already have women, ESPECIALLY beautiful and sexy ones... Thus, so much fiction crrated by and for women depicts the heroine hooking up with a man who's "forbidden". Ergo, if we continue retreating from public life, the less likely we are to get our needs and desires met

One cannot get blood from stone. Men must understand reality as it is, not how it should be. testosterone will not make a man over 6 feet, it will not make him wealthy, it will not cure his baldness, or his social awkwardness. Testosterone is not a love potion.

At the end of the day, men must find what makes them happy. Currently, men are doing their best with what is given. All in all, men are Currently even more happier then women who by all accounts are sleeping arround more. Have more relationship then men. but yet, are less happy.

 

[corrector]

One cannot get blood from stone. Men must understand reality as it is, not how it should be. testosterone will not make a man over 6 feet, it will not make him wealthy, it will not cure his baldness, or his social awkwardness. Testosterone is not a love potion.

At the end of the day, men must find what makes them happy. Currently, men are doing their best with what is given. All in all, men are Currently even more happier then women who by all accounts are sleeping arround more. Have more relationship then men. but yet, are less happy.

Yeah, this testosterone thing sounds like another version of "no-fap". Magic bullet blanks.

 

[MatureDJ]

Absolutely.

Exactly. When you are dealing with high-interested women then they make it super-easy for you (ie if they are not pursuing themselves).

I get the feeling that men have made this observation, and thus don't put a whole lot into pursuit that doesn't look like it is being reciprocated. I know that's been my M.O. for a while.

 

[characternote]

Yeah, this testosterone thing sounds like another version of "no-fap". Magic bullet blanks.

maybe? I do'nt know. I had my levels tested a few years back and even well into my 30's I had high levels, which surprised me a lot since the reason I had them checked was because I assumed they were (and had always been) low!. Both my Total T and free T were high (one of them was even outside of the range for the clinic on the upper side. When I saw the 'exclamation mark' I thought "I knew it!!" before realising that red exclamation mark was used for when teh reading is outside of range in either direction). Makes me wonder how high they were when I was young?!! I was superman without knowing it lol

I guess we also have way more people injecting T nowadays, anyway? Surely! When I was young it seemed like it was only bodybuilders injecting T. We've had 'looksmaxxers' and other young dudes injecting for quite a while now. My nephew certainly has friends who inject. He has Lots of Clavicular type looxsmax friends (however it's not illegal to buy T where I live so maybe that's why? Although Clav is American so I guess it's not a big deal in the US either)

 

[viking22]

I'd suggest doing your best to correct testosterone levels naturally before messing around with TRT. Losing body fat, lifting heavy weights, getting enough red meat, avoiding processed foods, and playing competitive sports etc all help.

I think most of the benefits are going to be when you take someone with low testosterone i.e. 300-400 ng/dl and get it back to normal range say 600-700 ng/dl.

But if you are already in the normal range I don't think it is a magic bullet to turn you into a good looking alpha male with an insatiable libido and its a lifelong commitment and requires a lot of tweaking as TRT can affect other hormone levels such as estradiol and cause side effects.

TRT also needs to be distinguished from use of anabolic steroids which are a different kettle of fish.

They probably do more for your success with women because a lot of women like big muscles. But they can also make you impotent and your testosterone levels will crash between cycles and long term they shorten lifespan.

 

[Solomon]

You must be new around here . Without rules, you will have more women on the edge cases (e.g., llily Phillips, Bonnie Blue, etc) who will sleep with thousands of guys. Without rules, you will have more men on the edge cases that have the means and ability (looks, money, charm, whatever, etc.) that can sleep with a 1000s of women.

If society rein them in; the body count will go down; the number of dates will go down. But currently, society does not because society has been corrupted by feminism, the girl power movement, etc. I guess I'm not surprise. Society has told people to sleep with other people to "test them out for sexual compatibility"... or "leave him" when a person does the slightest thing wrong/inconvenient. Society tells women they deserve the "very best", when they themselves are just average.

Just think about it. I heard like something like 70% of males under the age of 30 was virgin.... But only like 5% of women. Do the math. There are some guys getting all the women (we call them chads/tyrones), and there are average men who get nothing. Not to mention the body count. Most guys under the average of 30 has the body count of 0; but women have the body count of like 10... Do the math. What's the probability some Chad is doing all the "love making"??????? What percent of the guys are getting most of the girls? On average the guys that are getting the girls, what is their body count? How many dates do you think they are getting.

It's not "illuminating" to me that a few guys are getting most of the women. I did the math a while back. Perhaps I was shocked them, I am definitely not now.

Lets do the math now:
Assume a populations size of 10 women and 10 guys.
70% of the guys are virgins... so 7 of the guys have NEVER had sex; but 3 has.
Now, only 5% of women under 30 are virgins. So lets round that up to 10%.
So almost all of the women have had sex except for 1 woman. So the 3 guys are having
sex with basically all of the women (except for 1 woman if we round up).

Now for any give time, 3 guys are basically having sex with almost all of the chicks. But this is only for an instance of time,
people break up and form new relationships. So how long does a typical relationship last for? A one night stand? A 6month situationship?
In almost all of these cases, it will come down to a lot of sex happening for the 3 guys, none for the other 7 guys...
and a lot of sex happening for the women (or perhaps a smaller subset of loose women are having more sex with
different men, but the modest women have some sex and then quit -- not sure because they get "burned out"; but still the 7 guys loose out regardless).

You're still missing the core point. I'm not denying imbalances exist or that some top guys clean up. I've seen it with my own eyes and my buddy averaging 25 dates a month. The "illuminating" part is showing regular guys what consistent success actually looks like, because a ton of men here are struggling and pretending it's all equal or just "do better" doesn't help them.Your math example falls apart on the actual numbers though.

The 70% male virginity rate under 30 isn't accurate. Recent data (NSFG/GSS) puts lifelong virginity for young men (18-30ish) closer to 10-28% depending on exact age slice and "no sex since 18" vs. true virgin, with female virginity around 5-7%.


Even with the disparity, it doesn't mean "3 Chads are having sex with all 9 non-virgin women forever." People pair up, break up, have situationships, and rotate. Most women aren't racking up body counts in the hundreds like the extreme edge cases (Lily Phillips etc.). The average woman's lifetime partners is in the single digits to low teens, not 10+ by 30 for the majority.

The top guys do get a disproportionate share, but it's not 0 sum where average men get literally nothing if they put in real effort offline.The bigger issue isn't "feminism corrupted everything and we need to rein in the sluts." It's modern dating dynamics: apps that amplify looks/money/status (where the top 20% of men get way more attention), economic pressures delaying stability, social isolation, porn, and yes, both sides having unrealistic expectations.

Women get told they deserve the best; plenty of men doomscroll red pill content and conclude they're hopeless without being 6'2" with six figures.Blaming it all on "girl power" and society not controlling women's edge cases ignores that plenty of average guys (not just Chads) still date, have relationships, and get laid by focusing on real life: social circles, hobbies, fitness, approaching without desperation. Your simplified 10-women/10-men model with static "3 guys get all the sex" doesn't hold when relationships have turnover and most people aren't in perpetual hookup mode. I'm highlighting the guys who do make it happen consistently, not to flex, but to show struggling men there's a path beyond "society is doomed, blame feminism." The disparity is real, but exaggerating it into "7/10 men are permanently locked out" just breeds more hopelessness.

 

[corrector]

You're still missing the core point. I'm not denying imbalances exist or that some top guys clean up. I've seen it with my own eyes and my buddy averaging 25 dates a month. The "illuminating" part is showing regular guys what consistent success actually looks like, because a ton of men here are struggling and pretending it's all equal or just "do better" doesn't help them.Your math example falls apart on the actual numbers though.

No, you are missing core point. That is a massive disclaimer with that stat. It's like a millionare bragging that they have to invest their first million in order to make ten million to a homeless guy. These top guys are living in a different universe altogether.

The top guys do get a disproportionate share, but it's not 0 sum where average men get literally nothing if they put in real effort offline.The bigger issue isn't "feminism corrupted everything and we need to rein in the sluts." It's modern dating dynamics: apps that amplify looks/money/status (where the top 20% of men get way more attention), economic pressures delaying stability, social isolation, porn, and yes, both sides having unrealistic expectations.

Women get told they deserve the best; plenty of men doomscroll red pill content and conclude they're hopeless without being 6'2" with six figures.

You mentioned both sides have unrealstic expectations. Women are told they deserve the best so obviously they are gunning for top guys.
What unrealstic expectations do average guys have then?

 

[Solomon]

No, you are missing core point. That is a massive disclaimer with that stat. It's like a millionare bragging that they have to invest their first million in order to make ten million to a homeless guy. These top guys are living in a different universe altogether.



You mentioned both sides have unrealstic expectations. Women are told they deserve the best so obviously they are gunning for top guys.
What unrealstic expectations do average guys have then?

I've ignored you this whole thread cause your arguments are based in bad faith, and this post proves it, I have posted empirical data and your response is "you're missing the point the stat's are wrong" Well then, post the stat's to debunk mine, until then I shall continue to ignore you

 

[Barrister]

Yes and no. Yes, more and more men lack any real charisma and conversational skills. More and more have no social skills at all. And are intimidated to go on a “date.” Also, their lack typically turns women off and therefore they don’t get a date in the first place. So sure. There’s less dating.

Men will always want women. Let’s not act like these men are saying “I don’t want women” and are voluntarily turning down pvssy. It’s just because they can’t get any. Many times because they don’t want to listen to good advice. Sometimes you can see that happening right here on this very forum.

 

[Slowhandluke]

You're still missing the core point. I'm not denying imbalances exist or that some top guys clean up. I've seen it with my own eyes and my buddy averaging 25 dates a month. The "illuminating" part is showing regular guys what consistent success actually looks like, because a ton of men here are struggling and pretending it's all equal or just "do better" doesn't help them.Your math example falls apart on the actual numbers though.

The 70% male virginity rate under 30 isn't accurate. Recent data (NSFG/GSS) puts lifelong virginity for young men (18-30ish) closer to 10-28% depending on exact age slice and "no sex since 18" vs. true virgin, with female virginity around 5-7%.


Even with the disparity, it doesn't mean "3 Chads are having sex with all 9 non-virgin women forever." People pair up, break up, have situationships, and rotate. Most women aren't racking up body counts in the hundreds like the extreme edge cases (Lily Phillips etc.). The average woman's lifetime partners is in the single digits to low teens, not 10+ by 30 for the majority.

The top guys do get a disproportionate share, but it's not 0 sum where average men get literally nothing if they put in real effort offline.The bigger issue isn't "feminism corrupted everything and we need to rein in the sluts." It's modern dating dynamics: apps that amplify looks/money/status (where the top 20% of men get way more attention), economic pressures delaying stability, social isolation, porn, and yes, both sides having unrealistic expectations.

Women get told they deserve the best; plenty of men doomscroll red pill content and conclude they're hopeless without being 6'2" with six figures.Blaming it all on "girl power" and society not controlling women's edge cases ignores that plenty of average guys (not just Chads) still date, have relationships, and get laid by focusing on real life: social circles, hobbies, fitness, approaching without desperation. Your simplified 10-women/10-men model with static "3 guys get all the sex" doesn't hold when relationships have turnover and most people aren't in perpetual hookup mode. I'm highlighting the guys who do make it happen consistently, not to flex, but to show struggling men there's a path beyond "society is doomed, blame feminism." The disparity is real, but exaggerating it into "7/10 men are permanently locked out" just breeds more hopelessness.

You seem to imply either average men are getting plenty of sex or that average men need to "do better" in order for women to swipe right on them.

we simply have a disagreement. I'm not saying 7/10 men are "locked out". I'm saying most average women would rather date the top 3/10 men.... and most top tier men like sex enough that they would rather sleep with as many and diverse women as they can rather than pairing up.

oh well, lets agree to disagree. imho, Its really hard for an average man to compete with a 6'2", successful, wealthy guy, that tells a woman everything she wants to hear... for every woman hes stringing along or dating, an average guys is without a women. A lot of these chads are dating multiple women - i think we can agree on this also..

 

[corrector]

I've ignored you this whole thread cause your arguments are based in bad faith, and this post proves it, I have posted empirical data and your response is "you're missing the point the stat's are wrong" Well then, post the stat's to debunk mine, until then I shall continue to ignore you

That's fine because my replies are intended to contribute to the discussion as a whole rather than to argue with you to show you are talking out of your a$$. Which you are doing again, btw.

 

[BaronOfHair]

My impression:

Many fellas have been convinced by their favorite content creator(s)* that retreating from public life in general, and into fantasy worlds on social media and in streaming services, is going to bring down The System/force humanity at large to fall down on it's knes and repent for "neglecting" us, while sympathizing more readily with women. Same way so many flower children of The 60s/early 70s ran off to communes out in the middle of bumf-ck, where they prayed day and night for The End Times to wash Nixon and The Military Industrial Complex for their sins against The Natural Order Of Things

Last anyone heard, the latter daydream shattered in on it itself by time 1975 rolled around, and the former is doing likewise today. The Woke Left and The Generically Red Pill alike will likely glance over the landscape in the very near future, and lament: "Everyone has gone TradCon!!!" To which I(and no doubt many of us)retort:

"No... The reality of human existence simply set in. We each get up in the morning, shave, shower, punch the clock, go home for the evening after about 8-10 hours at the office, f-ck around in whatever free time we have, fall asleep, then repeat the same cycle all over again. Along the way, we fall in love with someone periodically, fall out of love, then fall back in love with someone else all over again. Life, by and large, isn't remotely theatrical or cinematic, and those who never make peace with that are destined to remain perpetually disappointed"

 

[Clockwerk50]

I've ignored you this whole thread cause your arguments are based in bad faith, and this post proves it, I have posted empirical data and your response is "you're missing the point the stat's are wrong" Well then, post the stat's to debunk mine, until then I shall continue to ignore you

I’d stop engaging with him and he is obviously insulting you. Anyone who claims that escorts “require game, probably more game than what you need to get free women,” does not provide sources when asked, and instead responds with accusations like “you are talking out of your a$$” in an ad-hominem argument is trolling, spreading misinformation for their amusement, and spamming the board.

 

[corrector]

I've ignored you this whole thread cause your arguments are based in bad faith, and this post proves it, I have posted empirical data and your response is "you're missing the point the stat's are wrong" Well then, post the stat's to debunk mine, until then I shall continue to ignore you

You’re leaning on those stats like they prove the situation is balanced, but they actually highlight the opposite if you think about what they don’t show.


You’re quoting “only ~10–28% of men are virgins,” but that’s a lifetime or broad-range stat. It tells us almost nothing about distribution of outcomes. A guy who had sex once at 19 and hasn’t since is grouped the same as a guy with a steady rotation. That’s a massive blind spot. Take @needimprovement250. He did it once and that doesn't matter. He may as well be grouped with the virgins, etc...

Same with your point about average partner counts. Averages flatten everything. If a subset of men are having disproportionately more encounters, the average still looks “normal” while masking inequality underneath. You don’t need extreme “3 guys with all 9 women” scenarios for imbalance to exist — even a moderate skew changes the lived experience for the majority.

You also mention turnover — relationships forming and breaking — but that doesn’t eliminate imbalance, it just redistributes access over time. If the same group of guys consistently cycles through more options, the gap persists even if everyone technically “participates” at some point.

So when you say “average guys still have a path,” that’s not wrong, but it’s incomplete. A path that exists in theory isn’t the same as a path that’s reliable, repeatable, or comparable to what higher-tier guys experience.

That’s the core point you’re missing. The discussion isn’t about whether average men ever get anything — it’s about how uneven the consistency and ease of access is, and your stats don’t actually address that.

 

[corrector]

I think part of this thread is talking past itself because people are using “success” and “failure” in a very binary way (incel vs slayer), when the lived experience for most guys sits somewhere in the middle — and that middle is what actually feels frustrating.


It’s not really about whether a guy has ever had sex or can get something occasionally. You can technically not be a virgin and still have a pretty miserable dating life if what you get is:

• inconsistent results
• long dry spells between anything happening
• one-off situations that don’t repeat
• little to no sense of control over outcomes

That’s very different from what guys like CJ or the “25 dates a month” examples are describing, which is consistency and ease. That’s the real gap people are reacting to — not just access, but repeatable access.


At the same time, I think some of the comparisons being made are off because they’re using outliers as the benchmark. A guy lining up women like appointments or cycling through dozens of dates a month is not an average baseline — that’s the far end of the distribution. Measuring yourself against that will make any normal experience feel like failure.


So maybe a more useful way to frame this is:

• Access: do you get interest at all (matches, conversations, dates)?
• Conversion: when there is interest, do you move it forward or fumble it?
• Consistency: can you get repeatable results over time, or is it random/lucky?

Most guys aren’t completely locked out, but they’re also not operating in that high-consistency zone either — and that’s where the frustration lives.


I don’t think it’s helpful to say “it’s all game” or “it’s all genetics.” Reality is a mix:

• Some guys start with more natural access
• But behavior still affects conversion and consistency
• And most people fall somewhere between extremes

So instead of comparing to the top 5–10% or arguing over stats, a better question might be:

How does an average guy move from random, one-off outcomes → to something that’s at least somewhat consistent and repeatable?

 

[Solomon]

I’d stop engaging with him and he is obviously insulting you. Anyone who claims that escorts “require game, probably more game than what you need to get free women,” does not provide sources when asked, and instead responds with accusations like “you are talking out of your a$$” in an ad-hominem argument is trolling, spreading misinformation for their amusement, and spamming the board.

The guy is mentally ill and refuses to change I have him on ignore; I don't talk to losers in real life and I dare not waste energy doing so online

 

[Bingo-Player]

I think dating is becoming an old world concept much like marriage and we live in a society now where expectations are too high and everything is set up too disappoint.

Its why its become easier to get a one night stand than it has to get someone to put effort into the dating process theres simply no expectations

When dating apps came in around 2013 women started to get a bit too ****y there was like a ratio of like 20 male profiles to 1 female and the apps wanted to capitalise on the short supply of female profiles

This kind of created this bizarre shift in the male / female equilibrium .... women were bombarded with male profiles desperate for sex and showering them with attention and dates.

Simp culture really went wild for a period

Single women kind of transferred this new sense of demand onto social media and into the real world and for a few years enjoyed a lot of attention on social media posting selfies and thirst traps , its why whenever you check a semi attractive woman's instagram profile she always has like 1-3 thousand followers despite being a nobody.

Where women fvcked up was collectively broadcasting and gloating the demand all over social media ........it took a long time but men collectively finally started to realise that women had become the players and it wasn't worth bending over backwards or being humiliated anymore

Women are now pi$$ed they've lost the advantage

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I think dating is becoming an old world concept much like marriage and we live in a society now where expectations are too high and everything is set up too disappoint.

Its why its become easier to get a one night stand than it has to get someone to put effort into the dating process theres simply no expectations

When dating apps came in around 2013 women started to get a bit too ****y there was like a ratio of like 20 male profiles to 1 female and the apps wanted to capitalise on the short supply of female profiles

This kind of created this bizarre shift in the male / female equilibrium .... women were bombarded with male profiles desperate for sex and showering them with attention and dates.

Simp culture really went wild for a period

Single women kind of transferred this new sense of demand onto social media and into the real world and for a few years enjoyed a lot of attention on social media posting selfies and thirst traps , its why whenever you check a semi attractive woman's instagram profile she always has like 1-3 thousand followers despite being a nobody.

Where women fvcked up was collectively broadcasting and gloating the demand all over social media ........it took a long time but men collectively finally started to realise that women had become the players and it wasn't worth bending over backwards or being humiliated anymore

Women are now pi$$ed they've lost the advantage

Totally agree.

In the 90s only a limited number of women were openly arrogant and demanding, a type of women that were nothing less than stunning.

Nowadays you have overweight former mids talking about dinners and travel and being overconfident taking pictures of their fat rolls on the beach.

Plus the entitled behaviour became the norm, like expecting special treatment in public places or offices just for being a woman.
This contributed even more to their old woman syndrome once they hit the wall and get downgraded to "normal people" causing them a shock.

You watch an high school teen comedy from the 90s and the behaviour of the stereotypical bratty girl is now the base line for most women in bars and dating sites.

 

[characternote]

You watch an high school teen comedy from the 90s and the behaviour of the stereotypical bratty girl is now the base line for most women in bars and dating sites.

lol, that's actually quite true!