Approaching girls / have I been reading the signals wrongly?

[kalibrious]

Hi, I've decided to try my hand at becoming a pick up artist and study/practise as much as I can.

Today was day 1 and a really nice day. I went to the beach with my dog and as I arrived there was a pretty girl sitting on her own. I knew that if I were a really good PUA that I should walk past her and try an opener.

Instead I walked on by and then started to throw the ball for my dog. A cyclist came past and my dog started chasing and annoying him, then a runner came by and my dog did the same thing. I eventually got the dog under control and looked over to the pretty girl and she had been watching it all.

While throwing the ball for 20 minutes I had been looking at the girl quite a lot and she had been looking over at me a good many times.

I decided to walk on by and say something to her as I passed and sit by her to talk.

As I got close to her, she looked straight down and would not look at me at all. I wanted her to look at me in the eyes and even better to smile at me. But by looking down and not at me really confused me. I felt that she seemed nervous and this was a signal that she didn't want me to talk to her.

I continued along the beach and there was another blonde girl who was even better looking (perfect 10 in my opinion), I walked near her with my dog and noticed that she was also looking at me quite a lot. Then I decided to approach her and to talk to her as I passed.

But the exact same thing happened to me. I had built up the courage to say hello and start a conversation, then as I got near to her, she looked down and would not look at me. This freaked me out, why not look me in the eye and smile. For me if a girl wants you to talk with her the invitation is to look at you and smile.

I got back to my car after not saying hello or anything to the two girls that I thought were showing interest in me. Then I started to wonder how the response was so similar from the both of them as I got near to them .

So I left the dog off in the car, I got my bike out and started cycling on the prom. After a while I saw a really good looking girl and she had been watching me as I cycled towards her, as I got really close I was about to give her a big smile but she did the same as the other two girls, she looked down, just wouldn't look at me. After I passed her I looked around at her and she was also looking around at me.

I seem to be looking for strong eye contact and a nice smile to say they like me but the looking down and not looking at me has got me so confused.

I've now found some information and it maybe that these are attraction signals and I have been misreading for years.

nfo I have found:
>>>Sometimes the girl will accompany the eye contact with a smile or a submissive look down away from you( to hide) or just down to not be seen(we still have natural thing where we can't see them they can't see us) it is a very shy move, I actually notice this 5 times or so every time I work. This is probably the most easy to see attraction invitation that everyone of us miss. Strong eye contact, submissive head movement(looking down), and slight grin, that is three signals right there a cluster as I refer to them.<<<
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Can anyone tell me if with the two girls sitting at the beach did I read the signals wrong or did they both not want to talk with me?

Any other information to help my confusion?

 

[Iceberg]

I've now found some information and it maybe that these are attraction signals and I have been misreading for years.

nfo I have found:
>>>Sometimes the girl will accompany the eye contact with a smile or a submissive look down away from you( to hide) or just down to not be seen(we still have natural thing where we can't see them they can't see us) it is a very shy move, I actually notice this 5 times or so every time I work. This is probably the most easy to see attraction invitation that everyone of us miss. Strong eye contact, submissive head movement(looking down), and slight grin, that is three signals right there a cluster as I refer to them.<<<
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#1. Toss that PUA sh*t in the trash can.

#2. Stop waiting for "signals." Start a conversation, and THEN worry about signals. Girls don't always just sit around staring at a guy they like. Just the same way YOU don't sit around staring at every cute girl. You might just think to yourself "Damn she's hot." and then move on with your life. It's not "Oh I'm just going to stare the f**k out of them until they notice." A girl might think you're handsome...but chances are, you're not so handsome that she's gonna straight-up eye-f**k you for an hour.

...My point is, all this "signs" and "IOIs" crap is in your head. It's imaginary. Yes, there have been times when I've met girls because they were staring at me from across the bar. But the majority of the time it was ME starting a conversation with her...with no signs or IOIs. Just "Hey, cool shoes." which spins into a different topic which eventually finds its way into my bedroom.

#3. The girls looked down/away? So what. You're a f**kin stranger walking up them alone. It's normal in society for people to be slightly shy around strangers....since these girls don't know who you are or what you want.

You gotta lose this idea in your head that girls are just sitting around waiting for you to pick them up. She's on the beach because she's enjoying a nice day, the same as you were. Not necessarily to be "picked up". She's not going to stare you down, or wave you over to talk to her. You just gotta approach and rely on your conversational skills. These girls might be friendly AFTER you've greeted them. But until then, you're just some random stranger....of course they're going to look away.

 

[kalibrious]

#1. Toss that PUA sh*t in the trash can.

#2. Stop waiting for "signals." Start a conversation, and THEN worry about signals. Girls don't always just sit around staring at a guy they like. Just the same way YOU don't sit around staring at every cute girl. You might just think to yourself "Damn she's hot." and then move on with your life. It's not "Oh I'm just going to stare the f**k out of them until they notice." A girl might think you're handsome...but chances are, you're not so handsome that she's gonna straight-up eye-f**k you for an hour.

...My point is, all this "signs" and "IOIs" crap is in your head. It's imaginary. Yes, there have been times when I've met girls because they were staring at me from across the bar. But the majority of the time it was ME starting a conversation with her...with no signs or IOIs. Just "Hey, cool shoes." which spins into a different topic which eventually finds its way into my bedroom.

#3. The girls looked down/away? So what. You're a f**kin stranger walking up them alone. It's normal in society for people to be slightly shy around strangers....since these girls don't know who you are or what you want.

You gotta lose this idea in your head that girls are just sitting around waiting for you to pick them up. She's on the beach because she's enjoying a nice day, the same as you were. Not necessarily to be "picked up". She's not going to stare you down, or wave you over to talk to her. You just gotta approach and rely on your conversational skills. These girls might be friendly AFTER you've greeted them. But until then, you're just some random stranger....of course they're going to look away.

I've just watched the 2 full series of the pick up artist and it's fascinating to see how mystery and the people that he teach learn how to read women through their body language and signals.

Similar to mystery, back in 1987 I went to clubs every night for 1 year (hardly missed a night), it was an addiction and the more girls I got the more confidence I got. By the end of the year I had super high confidence but made myself sick with all the alcohol. So I gave up the clubs and started cycle racing.

After watching the pick up artist series, and at the moment being low with my confidence. It brought back my clubbing memories and as I watched the guys confidence improve it reminded me that the same thing happened to me all those years ago.

I want to learn all the signals and the body language girls have,I want to make up lots of rehearsed good conversation ready so I will never be lost for something interesting to say.

You say that the "signs" and "IOIs" are in my head. Well this is what I've seen with Mystery, it's not in my head - I have been fascinated by it all.

If you are out to chat a girl up and she shows clear signs of disinterest can you see this and move or do you carry on regardless?

If the looking down was a clear sign that the two girls definitely didn't want me to talk to them then I don't want to waste my time.

In the book the Game and the series the pick up artist, the students develop the skills to read signals of interest or of disinterest. If a girl is clearly disinterested then they quickly move on to another girl.

If you don't know for sure the reason that the girls looked down or if it is a signal or not, then you are not giving me an answer to my question. I'm looking for people who do know about body language or signals because that's what I'm interested in learning.

If your not into anything like that, and you really believe it's all crap - I think you are incorrect.

 

[Iceberg]

I
I want to learn all the signals and the body language girls have,

Right. Because you're afraid to approach, so you want to try to read signals from across the room. Basically, you want to find out if the ocean is cold without having to dip your feet in it.

I want to make up lots of rehearsed good conversation ready so I will never be lost for something interesting to say.

Right. Or you could develop yourself into an interesting, confident man who has intriguing things to say WITHOUT rehearsing.

You say that the "signs" and "IOIs" are in my head. Well this is what I've seen with Mystery, it's not in my head - I have been fascinated by it all.

Good for you. You're fascinated by a TV show.

If you are out to chat a girl up and she shows clear signs of disinterest can you see this and move or do you carry on regardless?

If I'm talking to a girl and she shows disinterest, I move on. I don't try to evaluate her interest/disinterest from across a room, by pretending to read body language.

If the looking down was a clear sign that the two girls definitely didn't want me to talk to them then I don't want to waste my time.

Waste time? It takes less time to say "Hello." than to sit 40 feet away from her, trying to evaluate whether she's flicking her hair, crossing her legs, staring at you, or whatever other signs Mystery is telling you about.

If you don't know for sure the reason that the girls looked down or if it is a signal or not, then you are not giving me an answer to my question.

How could ANYONE tell you that for sure? The only people who could tell you that for sure are the girls themselves. Maybe she looked down because of disinterest. Maybe she's shy. Maybe she's scared....maybe nervous.

Seriously. Stop and think about that for a moment....who could tell you for sure what that girl was thinking? Well....YOU could have known for sure what she was thinking....if you talked to her. But you were afraid, so you'd rather try to guess.

If your not into anything like that, and you really believe it's all crap - I think you are incorrect.

I don't believe it's total crap. I believe there is value in knowing how to interpret signs given by the human body. But here's something that I believe more...I believe that the people who get things in this world are the people who aren't afraid to pursue what they want. People who can accept that they will sometimes be rejected.

And right now, it seems that you're more interested in guessing whether or not a girl likes you than trying to talk to her and find out for sure.

Like I said earlier....if you want to find out if the ocean is cold, do you dip your feet in, or do you sit there staring at it from 40 feet away?

 

[kalibrious]

Right. Because you're afraid to approach, so you want to try to read signals from across the room. Basically, you want to find out if the ocean is cold without having to dip your feet in it.



Right. Or you could develop yourself into an interesting, confident man who has intriguing things to say WITHOUT rehearsing.



Good for you. You're fascinated by a TV show.



If I'm talking to a girl and she shows disinterest, I move on. I don't try to evaluate her interest/disinterest from across a room, by pretending to read body language.



Waste time? It takes less time to say "Hello." than to sit 40 feet away from her, trying to evaluate whether she's flicking her hair, crossing her legs, staring at you, or whatever other signs Mystery is telling you about.



How could ANYONE tell you that for sure? The only people who could tell you that for sure are the girls themselves. Maybe she looked down because of disinterest. Maybe she's shy. Maybe she's scared....maybe nervous.

Seriously. Stop and think about that for a moment....who could tell you for sure what that girl was thinking? Well....YOU could have known for sure what she was thinking....if you talked to her. But you were afraid, so you'd rather try to guess.



I don't believe it's total crap. I believe there is value in knowing how to interpret signs given by the human body. But here's something that I believe more...I believe that the people who get things in this world are the people who aren't afraid to pursue what they want. People who can accept that they will sometimes be rejected.

And right now, it seems that you're more interested in guessing whether or not a girl likes you than trying to talk to her and find out for sure.

Like I said earlier....if you want to find out if the ocean is cold, do you dip your feet in, or do you sit there staring at it from 40 feet away?

You don't know the answer I'm looking for, now your running me down for being interested in a TV program, what is your problem?


I am nervous about approaching a girl who is definitely not interested in talking to me. I was just about to talk to both of them when they both looked down and I immediately and instinctively thought (both times) that by not looking at me, they were saying 'please don't talk to me'. Then I get home and read on the internet that it may have been a clear signal to talk to them.

I honestly thought that this would be a really good place to find experts at reading signals and body language and that someone would know for sure.

Maybe you have scared them all away.

From what I have read men are terrible at reading girls body language and signals, but girls are excellent at reading a man's.

To 'develop myself into an interesting, confident man who has intriguing things to say WITHOUT rehearsing'. At low confidence, being nervous can completely mess up any good conversation. Each time that I approach and talk to any girl, this is rehearsing and I have enough interesting stories of my own that I can have ready as you probably do.

Does anyone here know the answer about the girls looking down as I got near to them? is this a clear signal of interest or not interested, please let me know because the way they both did it was so exactly similar that it looked like clear body language to me, but what were they saying?

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Does anyone here know the answer about the girls looking down as I got near to them? is this a clear signal of interest or not interested, please let me know because the way they both did it was so exactly similar that it looked like clear body language to me, but what were they saying?

Can I ask you a question, man?

What if it doesn't mean anything? What if it's just a normal reaction to avoid eye contact with strangers?

I'm sorry this doesn't answer your question. But it just sounds like you're trying really hard to apply meaning to a non-event.

So I just want to know, are you open to the possibility that how they looked down means nothing? Or are you dead-set on applying some sort of meaning to this?

 

[kalibrious]

Good for you. You're fascinated by a TV show.



If I'm talking to a girl and she shows disinterest, I move on. I don't try to evaluate her interest/disinterest from across a room, by pretending to read body language.



Waste time? It takes less time to say "Hello." than to sit 40 feet away from her, trying to evaluate whether she's flicking her hair, crossing her legs, staring at you, or whatever other signs Mystery is telling you about.

While much of your advice is very good, I've heard and read the same things many times since becoming interested in pick up artistry.

Mystery advice is to approach a girl as soon as you get into a bar or club no waiting or looking around.

The difference with you to say Mystery or Style (I've been watching training videos also) is that you seem to be a bit condescending in the way you give your advice.

 

[kalibrious]

Can I ask you a question, man?

What if it doesn't mean anything? What if it's just a normal reaction to avoid eye contact with strangers?

I'm sorry this doesn't answer your question. But it just sounds like you're trying really hard to apply meaning to a non-event.

So I just want to know, are you open to the possibility that how they looked down means nothing? Or are you dead-set on applying some sort of meaning to this?

I am open to the possibility it meant nothing.

Although the way they both looked down was almost exactly the same and at about the exact same distance that I was near to them.


It was when I read this from http://174.133.97.163/1-vt71495.html?start=0: a submissive look down away from you or just down to not be seen it is a very shy move, I actually notice this 5 times or so every time I work. This is probably the most easy to see attraction invitation that everyone of us miss.
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So he is saying that it 'is probably the most easy to see attraction invitation that everyone of us miss'?

Everyone of us miss.

Next time this happens to me I will definitely start to talk and find out for sure.

I think that this is very interesting especially if it is a clear signal. Maybe no one here knows for sure and I should post in some body language forum to find out?

 

[Iceberg]

While much of your advice is very good, I've heard and read the same things many times since becoming interested in pick up artistry.

Mystery advice is to approach a girl as soon as you get into a bar or club no waiting or looking around.

The difference with you to say Mystery or Style (I've been watching training videos also) is that you seem to be a bit condescending in the way you give your advice.

I sound condescending because I have a very matter-of-fact tone. And I have that tone because you (and lots of other guys) are taking something very simple and making it way too complex.

All this body language stuff is secondary. The most important thing is just accepting the fact that sometimes you will get rejected.

People were getting laid before Mystery or Style. You don't need to be a PUA to get women. You just need to be in shape, social, and willing to face rejection.

These days, I'd consider myself good with women. And I'm good with women because I learned by taking my lumps. So I'm being condescending to you because it sounds like you want the glory of getting women without taking the risks of possibly getting rejected.

Basically, in my opinion, it's like you're saying, "Hey Iceberg, I want to get girls too. But I want to do it without any risk whatsoever. So how can I know if a girl likes me without even having to get within 10 feet of her?"

So I'm sorry for not directly answering your question. But like I said earlier, someone can come in here and tell you "She looked down because she liked you." and another guy can say "She looked down because she hates you."

But let's be honest. No one knows. You can analyze all day. But no one knows. So the best option is to just talk to these women. If she's warm and friendly...see where it goes. If she's cold, then she's useless to you, and move on. But life is too short to be sitting around reading a woman's body language before you've even spoken to her.

 

[kalibrious]

I sound condescending because I have a very matter-of-fact tone. And I have that tone because you (and lots of other guys) are taking something very simple and making it way too complex.

All this body language stuff is secondary. The most important thing is just accepting the fact that sometimes you will get rejected.

People were getting laid before Mystery or Style. You don't need to be a PUA to get women. You just need to be in shape, social, and willing to face rejection.

These days, I'd consider myself good with women. And I'm good with women because I learned by taking my lumps. So I'm being condescending to you because it sounds like you want the glory of getting women without taking the risks of possibly getting rejected.

Basically, in my opinion, it's like you're saying, "Hey Iceberg, I want to get girls too. But I want to do it without any risk whatsoever. So how can I know if a girl likes me without even having to get within 10 feet of her?"

So I'm sorry for not directly answering your question. But like I said earlier, someone can come in here and tell you "She looked down because she liked you." and another guy can say "She looked down because she hates you."

But let's be honest. No one knows. You can analyze all day. But no one knows. So the best option is to just talk to these women. If she's warm and friendly...see where it goes. If she's cold, then she's useless to you, and move on. But life is too short to be sitting around reading a woman's body language before you've even spoken to her.

No you don't sound condescending because you have a very matter-of-fact tone.

It's the way you say things like:

Toss that PUA sh*t in the trash can.

...My point is, all this "signs" and "IOIs" crap is in your head. It's imaginary.

Good for you. You're fascinated by a TV show.


Basically I think that the Pick up artist program was excellent and Mystery is just a normal guy like you and I who has worked out women by body language and signals and he is like an artist, he has made what he does into an art form and he's having a lot of fun.

At the root of it all is being able to handle rejection and to even go as far as to turn rejection into success because each encounter is a learning process success and rejection are equal in building confidence.

I can't fault your advice to be honest. But without seeing Mystery's programs and how much the people he trained changed, me posting here and my new interest would not have happened.

I told myself one day that I wanted to train and to get into cycle racing and I practised and learned how to become really good - same with playing keyboards...

I see no difference in practising to become a pick up artist, I failed today, my confidence let me down but I will read, study and most of all practise and will work out the best method for me. I've done the wam bang get in there talk to them and if we get on great if we don't we don't.

Now though how ever many hours a day it takes I want to make what I do into an art form.

 

[Aaron B]

OP: none of that stuff you posted matters

get over yourself. you aren't special, and you aren't the center of the universe.

if you really want to get better, this thread should only be about one thing:

you wanted to approach, but you let fear prevent you from doing so

then you used them not looking at you as a wack excuse

then out of frustration you wanna come here and argue with guys who have the balls to talk to women when you don't? pathetic

you don't even need to start a thread. go find some stuff about fear preventing you from approaching and read it and face reality that you failed to act even though you wanted to

do you think her prince charming sees her but is afraid to talk to her? hell no he's not

in reality you don't need to know anything to approach women. just go talk to her and see what happens. if you don't know what to say just introduce yourself and ask her a question or something. you are doing to have to actually talk to girls, might as well start now

 

[kalibrious]

OP: none of that stuff you posted matters

get over yourself. you aren't special, and you aren't the center of the universe.

if you really want to get better, this thread should only be about one thing:

you wanted to approach, but you let fear prevent you from doing so

then you used them not looking at you as a wack excuse

then out of frustration you wanna come here and argue with guys who have the balls to talk to women when you don't? pathetic

you don't even need to start a thread. go find some stuff about fear preventing you from approaching and read it and face reality that you failed to act even though you wanted to

do you think her prince charming sees her but is afraid to talk to her? hell no he's not

in reality you don't need to know anything to approach women. just go talk to her and see what happens. if you don't know what to say just introduce yourself and ask her a question or something. you are doing to have to actually talk to girls, might as well start now

I came here and asked a simple question and have been alienated. I won't post here again.

And for the record yes I did bottle it, but I am still very interested in knowing if the girls showed clear signals they were interested and wanted me to talk and that I missed them.

Thanks for calling me pathetic, it's easy to work out that there is good advise here but there is also bad attitudes.

And your advice that 'in reality you don't need to know anything to approach women. just go talk to her and see what happens. if you don't know what to say just introduce yourself and ask her a question or something. you are doing to have to actually talk to girls, might as well start now'

This has to be the most lame advice I ever expected to here. I have seen the difference that 8 weeks of training guys like you. When they study and learn girl's behaviours and learn to develop high levels of confidence and have a massive arsenal of interesting things to say. 1000 times better than the way I have worked all my life. I am going to learn it all especially the body language. Anything that gives me the edge is worth learning.

Anyone else want to take a shot at me? Iim not posting here again so feel free.

I've got better forums to find..

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

I came here and asked a simple question and have been alienated. I won't post here again.

You are sensitive and weird.

It's probably best that you don't come back.

Good luck with your quest to find out the meaning behind a girl looking down. The rest of us will be out there talking to new girls.

 

[Aaron B]

I came here and asked a simple question and have been alienated. I won't post here again.

yeah you will

if you aren't willing to admit the possibility of you ever being wrong exists, you are in for a world of hurt

my penis enters vagina on a regular basis, and has since 1990. what about yours?

you want vagina. you saw girls you wanted to approach. you failed to approach. what part of that do you not understand? do you really think its possible to argue yourself into being right?

 

[Demonpenz]

Mystery and Style, that stuff is entertainment. Hopefully it leads you down the road for improvement. You can be your own dude, and post your experiences.

 

[Rhino]

and Mystery is just a normal guy like you and I

No, he's not. Have you SEEN the guy before? He's a weirdo. He may be good at picking up women, and he may give good advice, but he's still a creep.

You're asking for advice here, too, and then not being accepting of criticism. Don't be so outcome oriented. You see a girl look down or not eyeball-**** you and you're like "ohmigod now she's never gonna sleep with meee (" Cut it out. Talk to cute girls for the sake of talking to people - the less priority you place on it in the moment the easier it will be. And good things will come of that as long as you realize that sometimes they won't be interested and that's fine. Just like everyone else said - trying to figure out what two random girls were thinking is a waste of time. You just have to man up and go talk to them.

 

[irocknike23]

they could be shy, i used to have the same problem where when people were approaching me(anybody) I would always look away as if I don't see them or notice them. I don't know why but its a natural shy reaction..

and don't take your dog on the beach to get girls unless your there just to spend time with your dog. last time I took my 2 pitbulls to the beach I was talking to a girl that accidentally bumped in to me while she was walking and in the middle of the conversation my pitts almost mauled some bum that kept throwing rocks at them:nono:

the best thing to do on the beach is jog or walk to get girls. or stand in one spot with one of your friends and throw the football around

 

[konmai]

i thought iceberg was very helpful with his posts. if it were me, i would tell you to stop overanalyzing and get your feet wet. it's too bad you interpret his messages as condescending, when in reality, they are very helpful.

at this point, you only want to read messages that align with your desire to stay in your comfort zone. good luck with that. repeatedly checking out a girl while pretending to play with your dog just sounds creepy. go to the beach and play with your dog. enjoy your time, not checking out if girls are checking you out or not. lame.

now this is a condescending post.