Anyone into kettlebells?

[Alpine]

Well p1ssed off now.

I've been hitting the weights hard recently and tonight my JKD instructor got us using kettlebells.

Most of my classmates had a go and were ok. I thought it would be easy to clean the thing and do squats. I couldn't do 1

I don't know why the fvck, it couldn't be more than 35lbs. I'm currently deadlifting 220lbs

Probably have to buy one now and secretly practice, I'm not having that.

 

[BlaKTooth]

if u want to go to an amazing kettlebell forum, go to www.dragondoor.com

I used to read and post there often around a year ago; they've got the best kettlebell info on the net, methinks.

Their training forum: http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/

 

[tyciol]

Ooh I have Pavel's books. I don't get how a guy so fit can be so mean though, I only exercise a little and I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl.

 

[Alpine]

Yeah, isn't that site run by Pavel? The only thing that puts me off is everything is so marketing bollocks. Kettlebells will cure your Grannies cancer etc.

Plus those bells are fvckin expensive, I believe you can get handles for dumbells, and you can vary the weight too.

The exercises I couldn't do were a squat with one arm in the air holding it. The other was a sort of hack squat with it on the floor behind you. I'm hoping there's a knack to it rather than a strength issue

 

[Guerrero]

Althought kettleballs help improve strength, you can do the same by carrying a 40lb gallon of water somewhat a kettleball. Remember not to screw up your wrist.


Kettleballs are too expensive.

Pavel has the smart on them.

 

[Alpine]

Water container, yep, good idea.

Did a bit of research this morning and discovered this guys site for making kettles out of 1" piping.

I think a canvas bag with sand is the cheapest and most useful for body conditioning, but if I can knock a bell up cheap it's worth a go.

http://geocities.com/briangl2002/kettlebell.htm

 

[de silva]

I've never used one, but imo the whole thing is way overrated.

Alpine, yes it's more of a "skill" thing than just pure strength. Well, actually, "strength" itself is quite a "skill" thing too.

Imo, you don't need kettle balls for bodybuilding. Maybe they have their use in strength training, but for bodybuilders it just adds to the confusion.

I don't think a person is missing out on anything by just sticking with the traditional big lifts (squats, deads, benches, chins).

And yeah, Pavel gets old pretty quick. All that "comrade" stuff. Take a look at the guy. Yeah, I'll admit, he'd make short work of kicking my azz, but is that the kind of body you want? Think about what you want, and what's they best way to get it.

 

[Alpine]

Too true de Silva,

I did Pavel's strength cycle for 6 weeks, and that is deads and side presses.

As I'd been doing hip belt squats for the last few years due to a lower back injury I thought I'd give deads a try again.

As you say strength is skill. It's basically training for tension. I started with a conservative 100lbs and ended up on 185 with the odd rep left.

But, my main goal is mass, as I'm still somewhat skinny, kettlebells have been only a slight diversion due to my competitive nature.

I'm going to do more volume, eat like a pig and maybe do a couple of kettlebell sessions a week with something I'll knock up from the Plumb centre.

In 10 years time, I bet there will be a kettlebell gathering dust at every garage sale up and down the land. Expensive door stop.

 

[de silva]

Originally posted by Alpine


But, my main goal is mass, as I'm still somewhat skinny, kettlebells have been only a slight diversion due to my competitive nature.

That's the problem. It's too easy to get diverted from what it is you want when you listen to every Tom, **** and Harry with the latest gizmo. Pavel has a wealth of information, and I'm not knocking the guy (just his marketing spiel! but good luck to him, it's working!), but his focus is building strength. Building strength and building (lean) size, while related, are also somewhat different.

I had a friend who used to workout similar to Pavel's deads and sidepresses method, except my friend did deads and military presses. Nothing else. Deads one day, militaries the next. Kept getting stronger every week. Got strong as an oxe. But minimal, I mean minimal, muscle mass gain. Other people doing strength focused multi-exercise workouts (deads, squats, benches, chins, rows) have also gotten way stronger with minimal muslce to show for it.

I'm going to do more volume, eat like a pig and maybe do a couple of kettlebell sessions a week with something I'll knock up from the Plumb centre.

How do the kettleballs fit into your plan? The way I see it, you can really only do strength/power exercises with them. As I said, strength and power have their place in the world, but to me, such exercises are of limited bodybuilding value.

In 10 years time, I bet there will be a kettlebell gathering dust at every garage sale up and down the land. Expensive door stop.

Lol, I bet my life on it! Right next to all the ab-gizmos and "elipitical trainers".

 

[Alpine]

To be fair to comrade Pavel, in PTTP he focusses on lean strength, but there is a section on massing up called bear training.

It's not so much the exercises as the volume. So you do deads and sides but 20 sets of each 3-4 times a week(but never to failure).

My main influence has been Stuart McRoberts as Beyond Brawn actually got me gaining on an abbreviated routine. In a funny way Pavel's is too in terms of low reps at 80% 1rm effort made up with high volume.

My goal (if I'm really honest) is to have enough meat on my bones to make pickups a lot easier, or to increase the quality of the women. I don't think a bodybuilder physique is required or desired, but obviously muscular is a big plus.

After that, strength gains will be next.

 

[de silva]

Originally posted by Alpine


My main influence has been Stuart McRoberts as Beyond Brawn actually got me gaining on an abbreviated routine. In a funny way Pavel's is too in terms of low reps at 80% 1rm effort made up with high volume.

I was heavily influenced by McRobert, too. If you're gaining on an abbreviated routine, all the more power to you. I trained abbreviated for a while, and managed gains too. But I think we're more of an exception, to be perfectly frank. I think McRobert overstated his case that adding iron to the bar was the be all and end all of getting big. I know he elaborates more on it in his books, but I've got articles written by him where he claims stuff like going from a 200lb x 20 squat, to a 300lb x 20 will "transform" you. All I can say is that the evidence hasn't really born this out. I used to read his board for a while, and was amazed at how many strong guys there were there (300 x 20 is pretty damn good lifting!). Yet, a lot of them -- too many, imo -- complained of not having the physique to show for all their hard work. I think abbreviated's fine to a certain point, but eventually you need more traditional bodybuilding training to hit your best physique.

 

[Alpine]

I know what you mean, are you talking about the Hardgainer roundtable?

I think that's the problem. Most guys who train and gain think so called 'hardgainers' are just doing something wrong. I, through my own experience have found although modest, I can gain on the 20 rep squat of supersquats fame and on 3 exercise 5x5s. Perhaps 2x a week (at max poundages), but no way on 'conventional' programmes .

For most people you can gain better on more volume, but it is after all the Hardgainer forum.

FWIW, most people on that board seem pretty disillusioned, more to do with it's neo-nazi like rules than it's message.

There are some awesome strength and and BB sites these days.

 

[de silva]

Originally posted by Alpine
I know what you mean, are you talking about the Hardgainer roundtable?

Lol, yeah, the "roundtable". Man, that place had some pretty clued in posters at one stage. I just got sick of the narrow-mindedness. Sean Toohey had some great posts on there.

Perhaps 2x a week (at max poundages), but no way on 'conventional' programmes .

How long have you been training abbreviated? If you've been at it for a while, I'd be willing to bet you'll find yourself able to gain on more conventional, higher volume protocals, too. After you've got some strength and experience behind you, and learnt to eat right, listen to your body, etc you'll find the "conventional" methods yield much better results than if you jump into them cold. I don't like the "hardgainer" lable, either. It's just too convenient a cop-out, imo. Can't gain? Oh, you must be a hardgainer. I think it was a bad move on McRobert's part to label the majority of lifters "hardgainers". He should have just spoken for himself.

 

[Alpine]

Looking back at my training logs, (from a few years ago) I think the big think I did was stop before a cycle ran out. Built up poundage again without going in at max.

Many of the routines that work build some form of cycling in as part of the system, but you think it's the routine that is it's success.

What iron game boards do you frequent? I'm fed up with HGRT nowadays.

 

[de silva]

Originally posted by Alpine

What iron game boards do you frequent? I'm fed up with HGRT nowadays.

None, these days. Not that I "know everything". No way. But I know enough to be able to get results. If there's anything I need cleared up, I've personal contacts I trust that I can turn to for advice. That's probably the best thing to use workout forums for -- find helpful, knowledgeable people that you can trust. Too much BS gets talked for me to bother wading through it all in order to find the few gems otherwise..

 

[englishcrap]

Ah your mail makes sense now..the one about u buying the sledge hammer

Originally posted by Alpine
Water container, yep, good idea.

Did a bit of research this morning and discovered this guys site for making kettles out of 1" piping.

I think a canvas bag with sand is the cheapest and most useful for body conditioning, but if I can knock a bell up cheap it's worth a go.

http://geocities.com/briangl2002/kettlebell.htm

 

[Alpine]

Yep, I got some strange looks in Homebase. Sledgehammer and a black canvas bag.

Can't wait to start hitting that tyre, the neighbours are gonna think I've finally flipped.

The kettlebell idea has gone out the window.

Apparently UK plumbers are too tight to buy the threaded pipe, so I can't get a 6" pipe threaded, apparentlt they use a special tool to make it up from long lengths.

 

[tyciol]

I have six of Pavel Tsatsouline's books, they're pretty interesting... though I wish guys like him and Matt Furey would actually back up their ideas with some science... Pavel at least speaks about good ways to make tension in exercise, but even then, he doesn't go into why his exercises do it so much better than the others.

 

[Alpine]

The trouble is, especially with Pavel, just like the man in the white coat on soap powder ads, 'science' can be yet another wonderful marketing tool.

The best laboratory is you. Try stuff see how it works.

Well looks like I've secured a couple of second hand kettlebell handles for little money, so I'm gonna have a play.

 

[Sh0t]

I dig them and Pavel.

I went to one of his seminars for LE/Mil guys here about 4 months ago.