Am i overdosing on fish oil?

[Throttle]

it also depends a lot on what you mean by pizza. for me, the only thing that really counts is pepperoni from one of the major chains or a local shop. you've got white bread base, who knows what sort of preservatives in the sauce & cheese, and you can count on nitrates in the pepperoni. the combination of lots of starch & lots of fat makes this ideal for putting on body fat.

some friends had me over recently and baked their own whole wheat crusted veggie pizza full of peppers, fresh cheese & meats, and it was delicious. but i hang around a college campus -- "free pizza" nearly always means pepperoni from domino's or a local shop.

most cereals are full of highly processed grains & sugars. even the best (probably cheerios) are a whole lotta starch for anyone trying to reduce or maintain body fat. pre-packaged cereals are a way to mark up materials better suited to horse feed.

 

[spesmilitis]

I think I saw from some T-nation article that you shouldn't consume fat and carbs at the same time. Did they mean in the same meal? Or on the same day? Or is this statement not accurate?

 

[Road Demon]

hi all
i've been taking fish oil for about 2 weeks now
for the first 1.5 weeks i was on about 4-6g of fish oil without incident

then in the last few days i upped it to about 30g
now i have a mouth ulcer on my gum that's been developing and hurting like crazy with a little redness (perhaps some bleeding)

i read that too much fish oil makes you bleed or something?

could this be just a coincidence?

thanks

I hope you don't get into a Car Accident...and bleed out.

The antithrombotic potential of fish oil, rich in (n-3) polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA), has been attributed to a reduction in platelet activation, a lowering of plasma triglycerides and (vitamin K–dependent) coagulation factors and/or a decrease in vascular tone. Most intervention studies have shown only moderate effects of (n-3) PUFA on these hemostatic variables.

I also hope you don't develop a as Vit E deficiency as Vit E used up in the metabolism of fish oil omega-3s

I say that as 30 grams Fish Oil/ day is ALOT in IMHO. So lets say you are taking 30% concentrate (30% = 300 mg Active Omega-3 per 1 gram pill (assuming 180mg EPA + 120mg DHA). The volume of fish oil pill does not matter, only the amount of EPA and DHA, most suppliments range from 30-70% EPA/DHA concentrate, prescription Omacor is a 90% EPA+DHA prep used to lower serum Trigylcerides.

The math then is 0.3 grams x 30 = 9 grams of EPA + DHA combined. Too Much.

Most studies have evaluated 4-6 grams of EPA + DHA combined, so you are about double that.

Most studies have found a significant therapeutic dose around 1 gram EPA+DHA per day, and slightly significant improvement in the 2-4 grams EPA + DHA combined per day groups.

Remember:

"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." by Paracelsus (the father of modern toxicology) translated into that the "the Dose make the Poision."

I'll have to agree with Omen in Regards to the Dose. I am a HUGE fan of fish oil omega-3!

I personally take about 1.8-2.0 grams of EPA + DHA combined. That is 4 Carlson Labs Super Fish Oil Concentrate (it is a 50% concentrate 300mg EPA and 200mg DHA per 1 gram fish oil capsule).

Perhaps 6-8 of your 30% EPA + DHA fish pills might be the best for you to take per day.

I would strongly encourage you to speak with your doctor about taking 30-45grams of fish oil per day.

RD

 

[Warboss Alex]

I have often said on this board to not overcombine fats and carbs in the same meal as you are presenting your body with two potential fuel sources. one will be stored and the other oxidised.

go for 10-15g fat in a protein+carb meal and only vegetable carbs with protein+fat meals and you should be okay.

 

[onthepath]

I say that as 30 grams Fish Oil/ day is ALOT in IMHO. So lets say you are taking 30% concentrate (30% = 300 mg Active Omega-3 per 1 gram pill (assuming 180mg EPA + 120mg DHA). The volume of fish oil pill does not matter, only the amount of EPA and DHA, most suppliments range from 30-70% EPA/DHA concentrate, prescription Omacor is a 90% EPA+DHA prep used to lower serum Trigylcerides.

The math then is 0.3 grams x 30 = 9 grams of EPA + DHA combined. Too Much.

that's exactly how much i was taking
i've cut it down to 24 pills for now so that's 7.2g of EPA+DHA combined, a little over the 6g upper limit of the studies
if my mouth ulcer doesn't heal in the next few days and continues to bleed i'll take that as a sign that perhaps my blood is too thin for my physiology
(though after starting on the topical gel yesterday night, i think it's already starting to heal, still very red but not as large)

i should say that my motivation behind this is for muscle growth and weigth loss, once i achieve my goal and i can then go into maintainance mode by cutting exercise down from everyday to about 3-4times a week, i'll half the fish oil intake, down to 3.5g - should be ok right?

 

[speakeasy]

Your bathroom must smell like a cannery after you take a piss.

 

[Road Demon]

that's exactly how much i was taking
i've cut it down to 24 pills for now so that's 7.2g of EPA+DHA combined, a little over the 6g upper limit of the studies
if my mouth ulcer doesn't heal in the next few days and continues to bleed i'll take that as a sign that perhaps my blood is too thin for my physiology
(though after starting on the topical gel yesterday night, i think it's already starting to heal, still very red but not as large)

i should say that my motivation behind this is for muscle growth and weigth loss, once i achieve my goal and i can then go into maintainance mode by cutting exercise down from everyday to about 3-4times a week, i'll half the fish oil intake, down to 3.5g - should be ok right?

You mentioned you just began taking a fish oil supplements in the past few weeks?

The dosage you have chosen @ 7.2 grams of EPA+DHA is way to load the EPA/DHA into your cell membranes; by going down to 3.5 gram EPA/DHA daily would be considered very good maintainance. I beleive (according to the literature) it takes about 2-4 weeks for the DHA/EPA supplementation to change the lipid composition of the plasma cell membrane

Factors such as body size and exercise level would make the 3.5/gram a day IMHO an excellent maintainance dose. Now a 100lb female that talks on the phone all day, then 3.5 grams is a bit much. But your 3-4 grams a day might be ideal @ 180 lbs and working out 12-15 hours/week.

Oh,make sure you take adequent levels of vit E with that level of EPA/DHA.

Thats alot of capsules, might want to try Carlson Lab Lemon Fish oil in bottle.

Oh you might just have aphthous ulcer in your mouth, no worries with that.

Good Stuff.

RD

 

[onthepath]

awesome stuff
my mouth ulcer has dramatically healed

thanks for all the advice fellas

 

[Omen]

Glad we could help.

Good info Road Demon

 

[Drum&Bass]

Just because people CAN eat pizza and cereal all day, doesn't mean they SHOULD eat pizza and cereal all day..

same thing with fish oil..just because you CAN eat over 30 g of fish oil doesn't mean you SHOULD eat that amount.

ask anyone in top physical shape or any fitness professional with over 10 - 15 years experience about over dosing on fish oil and guess what kind of answer you will get.

plus...fish oil has a negative effect when building muscle. That reduced soreness you get from the fish oil isn't a good thing. Your suppose to be sore after lifting. Fish oil is like using play-doh as grout for a brick wall.

Hell even if you wanted to lose weight, its retarded to take that much, not even pro bodybuilders are stupid enough to over dose on fish oil when it comes to cutting.

Bottom line there is NO logical reason to take more than a reasonable amount of omega 3 on a daily basis.

 

[Warboss Alex]

ask anyone in top physical shape or any fitness professional with over 10 - 15 years experience about over dosing on fish oil and guess what kind of answer you will get

Okay, go ask Charles Poliquin, Mauro Di Pasquale.. wait, I'll stop there.

 

[Drum&Bass]

2 guys out of thousands of experts, you should have stopped along time ago.

 

[Warboss Alex]

2 guys out of thousands of experts, you should have stopped along time ago.

Do you know who these people are?

 

[Throttle]

2 guys out of thousands of experts, you should have stopped along time ago.

thousands of nutritional experts say that saturated fat is bad for you, while a handful (maybe a dozen, and most of them 'outsiders' with no degree in nutrition science) have stood up to say otherwise. i'm with the outsiders on this one.

 

[Drum&Bass]

thousands of nutritional experts say that saturated fat is bad for you, while a handful (maybe a dozen, and most of them 'outsiders' with no degree in nutrition science) have stood up to say otherwise. i'm with the outsiders on this one.

Why ?

 

[spesmilitis]

plus...fish oil has a negative effect when building muscle. That reduced soreness you get from the fish oil isn't a good thing. Your suppose to be sore after lifting. Fish oil is like using play-doh as grout for a brick wall.

This man speaks the truth. I noticed significant gains when I started having my friends beat the crap outta me after each workout. The madd soreness the day after resulted in madd gains 4 the gunz.

 

[Rudra]

Just out of sheer interest (didn´t research fish oil):
Why would you want to get your omega3 out of saturated fat (fish oil) when you can get the same out of highly unsaturated fat (flax seed oil) ? Which is dirt cheap btw.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I had written a post but slowly lost the will to live.

I don't need to defend Poliquin or Di Pasquale's methods.. if you don't believe in them don't do them. Poliquin is the most respected strength coach in the world and Di Pasquale is an MD as well as a powerlifting champion. they talk the talk and walk the walk.

stick with the conventional lowfat high carb low protein logic that has produced an overweight, unhealthy, heart disease-, diabetes- and Alzheimers-ridden society in America and across the globe too.

as for the rest of you guys wetting your fvcking panties over Vit E/fish oil/Vit C/estrogen/protein overdose, you can stay as you are or actually try it out and find out you won't croak it after a few extra micronutrients a day.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Just out of sheer interest (didn´t research fish oil):
Why would you want to get your omega3 out of saturated fat (fish oil) when you can get the same out of highly unsaturated fat (flax seed oil) ? Which is dirt cheap btw.

sh!t, what am I gonna hear next today. fish oil is saturated fat? dude, read the bottle. it's polyunsaturated fat. (cod liver oil is actually more mono)

flax oil is cheap for a reason, it is crap in oil form.. very few brands are stable and definitely not the cheap ones. flaxseeds are good though

 

[spesmilitis]

This man speaks the truth. I noticed significant gains when I started having my friends beat the crap outta me after each workout. The madd soreness the day after resulted in madd gains 4 the gunz.

To all the newbs, that was a joke. Soreness is not an indicator of any type of athletic performance. Ask any accomplished athlete. Soreness will happen, but do not make soreness the goal. Make lifting numbers the goal.

I can make myself ultra sore by supersetting on machines and ignoring the major compound lifts. But that soreness won't gain me any significant strength.

ask anyone in top physical shape or any fitness professional with over 10 - 15 years experience about over dosing on fish oil and guess what kind of answer you will get.

You think you're in better shape than throttle, WBA, EFFORT, MrRuckus, ect? :crackup:

Unless they actively research this stuff (like the t-nation authors), professional athletes never confidently give these kind of details. They will just tell you 'it has works for me'. Sure, you'll give you general advice about exercise, diet, and supplementation, but never anything as specific as a supplement dosage. These details also vary significantly among athletes.

Nick Diaz who defeated Pride Light Weight Champion Takanori Gomi is a vegan. He did not receive the belt though, because it was a non-title fight. The result was also overturned because he was caught with marijuana in his system. Anyways, the point is, I doubt being vegan would work for everyone.

UFC light weight champion Sean Sherk takes 30 grams of fish oil a day btw. He has never recommended that dosage, but he will tell that it has worked for him.

It is interesting note that Sean Sherk is known for being the physically strongest in his weight class, while Nick Diaz has no apparently impressive physical attributes (except for decent stamina).

2 guys out of thousands of experts, you should have stopped along time ago.

Who are these 'thousands of experts'? What are their training backgrounds? What are their research backgrounds?