Am I approaching this the wrong way? (getting girls)

[muscleman]

This is gonna be a bit of rant. After getting out of a 1.5 year relationship a few months ago I've been very single. I like it. I've been working on myself and had some successes since then - one ONS which I didn't want to take further and a few dates which didn't go any further, one in particular which was another guaranteed lay but I didn't want to take further. My wing and I have been hitting up the bars on a regular basis on Fridays to kick back and sarge. We might try clubs soon, though I can't dance to save my life ... should probably take some urban dance classes. Sometimes we meet girls, sometimes we don't. A lot of times the girls we meet aren't up to my personal standards, but it's not like they don't exist - they're just always there with boyfriends or some large mixed pack. Every other girl I talk to is a mom.

Now I do enjoy going out on the weekend to socialize and practice (and possibly pick someone up), but it doesn't seem like the best use of time - the picking up girls part that is.

Outside of girls my life is structured well enough for the time being - I have a full time job, I just bought a condo, I have no outstanding debt besides my mortgage, I make enough money to be able to put easily some away each month, I'm pretty good looking (not supermodel, but could be on a mag cover), and I'm obsessed with working out ... I spend about 10 hours/week at the gym and I'm the most built/ripped guy when we go out 95% of the time. I'm not saying this to brag by the way - just general info. Women aren't the center of my life, but they are a part of it. And I want to get laid more, dammit.

Oh and I do have one problem I'm trying to get over - I have a hard time focusing on a single target if there are several good targets around. Case in point - bar last night. There was one chick that was pretty into me but we kept splitting up/meeting up because I was trying to game this other girl who I was supposed to be meeting there in the first place (that didn't work). I did end up number closing her but based on her initial attraction to me I could have been way more aggressive. I've also gotten the off comment before that I "flirt with everyone", which I think may be a detriment.

My game is kind of lacking. I do think I rely on my looks a lot, which definitely opens the door, but I need to be a little more aggressive. I can hold a conversation easily now.

Anyway, all of this is making me re-evaluate my approach to getting girls. On the one hand I know if I practice enough, blah blah I'll get better and have more success, but it doesn't seem like it's the best way to go about it.

I look at "socially famous" people (musicians, actors, etc) and I really doubt they go out to bars and try to pick up chicks. I'm sure they show up and girls are all over them already. I realize it's social proof and a marker of success that's responsible for this. Doesn't this seem like a better way to get girls?

Now, I probably won't pursue becoming a rock star or acting (though you never know) because frankly I'm not terribly interested in either at this point in my life, but I feel like I need to succeed way more than I am now to get approached.

I also need to "get my name out there" more, but I'm finding that quite difficult. My job revolves around computers and the same group of people, from which only 2 of us ever hang out together. My other main interest, fitness, is really just me hitting up the gym all the time. I do talk to people there, and maybe I'll network with a few to try and build my circle of friends, but I'm having a hard time actually building a group of real friends. For the most part it's just me and my wing when the weekend comes. Acquaintances I have plenty of.

Thoughts?

 

[jonwon]

This is gonna be a bit of rant. After getting out of a 1.5 year relationship a few months ago I've been very single. I like it. I've been working on myself and had some successes since then - one ONS which I didn't want to take further and a few dates which didn't go any further, one in particular which was another guaranteed lay but I didn't want to take further. My wing and I have been hitting up the bars on a regular basis on Fridays to kick back and sarge. We might try clubs soon, though I can't dance to save my life ... should probably take some urban dance classes. Sometimes we meet girls, sometimes we don't. A lot of times the girls we meet aren't up to my personal standards, but it's not like they don't exist - they're just always there with boyfriends or some large mixed pack. Every other girl I talk to is a mom.

Now I do enjoy going out on the weekend to socialize and practice (and possibly pick someone up), but it doesn't seem like the best use of time - the picking up girls part that is.

Outside of girls my life is structured well enough for the time being - I have a full time job, I just bought a condo, I have no outstanding debt besides my mortgage, I make enough money to be able to put easily some away each month, I'm pretty good looking (not supermodel, but could be on a mag cover), and I'm obsessed with working out ... I spend about 10 hours/week at the gym and I'm the most built/ripped guy when we go out 95% of the time. I'm not saying this to brag by the way - just general info. Women aren't the center of my life, but they are a part of it. And I want to get laid more, dammit.

Oh and I do have one problem I'm trying to get over - I have a hard time focusing on a single target if there are several good targets around. Case in point - bar last night. There was one chick that was pretty into me but we kept splitting up/meeting up because I was trying to game this other girl who I was supposed to be meeting there in the first place (that didn't work). I did end up number closing her but based on her initial attraction to me I could have been way more aggressive. I've also gotten the off comment before that I "flirt with everyone", which I think may be a detriment.

My game is kind of lacking. I do think I rely on my looks a lot, which definitely opens the door, but I need to be a little more aggressive. I can hold a conversation easily now.

Anyway, all of this is making me re-evaluate my approach to getting girls. On the one hand I know if I practice enough, blah blah I'll get better and have more success, but it doesn't seem like it's the best way to go about it.

I look at "socially famous" people (musicians, actors, etc) and I really doubt they go out to bars and try to pick up chicks. I'm sure they show up and girls are all over them already. I realize it's social proof and a marker of success that's responsible for this. Doesn't this seem like a better way to get girls?

Now, I probably won't pursue becoming a rock star or acting (though you never know) because frankly I'm not terribly interested in either at this point in my life, but I feel like I need to succeed way more than I am now to get approached.

I also need to "get my name out there" more, but I'm finding that quite difficult. My job revolves around computers and the same group of people, from which only 2 of us ever hang out together. My other main interest, fitness, is really just me hitting up the gym all the time. I do talk to people there, and maybe I'll network with a few to try and build my circle of friends, but I'm having a hard time actually building a group of real friends. For the most part it's just me and my wing when the weekend comes. Acquaintances I have plenty of.

Thoughts?

This reads like most guys I know who are successful in the field.

Yes there has to be an easier way, but judging from your post you should know that your level is far higher then most men on the planet at this stage already.

Next time you’re out, take a step back and look at the average guys, that always brings it home to myself anyway. At least that way you will see how far along you have come.

You sound like guys I go out drinking with, or to put it another way, any alpha guy out there in the field.

Yes there is an easier way, social proof, being a rock star e.t.c, but has far as mere mortals go, your doing pretty much what most guys should be doing.

As for the friends thing, part of life when one gets older he can see friends shift away on to new things; relationships, kids, marriage, jobs, e.t.c.

But there is one thing I know, is that; mates always seems to drift back too. But I must admit, when I was younger I used to be out 4-5 nights per week, now with commitments from friends and myself, I am lucky if I go out twice a week, if at all.

I also feel you in terms of meeting girls you just don’t connect with, even if it goes to sex, it seems the girls one really wants to date, are met far and few between, but to me that’s ok, no reason why you can’t have fun being single.

Being single is after-all a pleasure in itself and comes with many rewards.

I say enjoy it.

 

[old married dude]

My game is kind of lacking. I do think I rely on my looks a lot, which definitely opens the door, but I need to be a little more aggressive. I can hold a conversation easily now.

I think you said it right there, sounds like you have a lot going for you already. Being super outgoing and more aggressive will help a lot. Trust me, I might be a 4/10 in the looks department, but I still had decent success with women.

Do you have any interesting hobbies/skills? I could play the guitar & sing fairly well & sometimes that would draw women to me outside of a club setting. If you have gifts or talents such as that, use them to your advantage.

 

[muscleman]

Thanks for the replies. I'm very self critical and never satisfied with where I'm at, which I guess can be a double edged sword. Skills I have, let's see ...

-I'm really good with computers and anything to do with them, hardware, software, design, programming, support, etc (not something I can leverage).
-I'm can draw/paint very well, I have 10 years of studio training, graduated from an art/design school, and have been drawing since 4 years old (not something I can easily leverage).
-I'm very fit. I can definitely leverage that. I wear form fitting clothes and last night/tomorrow night/saturday night me and my wing (who is also fit) are going as spartans so we definitely get to show off. Which leads me to an interesting side story where I could use some feedback ...

This is the first year where I've actually shown off my body on this occasion. Last night before we even got in the bar these two pretty hot chicks came out, started feeling us, getting pictures with us, telling us "we better get laid tonight", etc. We danced with them later and what not, but my game faded. As I mentioned I didn't isolate and wasn't aggressive enough. I partially blame that on meeting my other female friend there who I was trying to game as well (and in retrospect should have just ignored cause it bombed). HB A.D.D hit me.

Anyway, in this case I got kino'd first, and heavy. I was kinda taken aback a little and not sure how to escalate. I can normally escalate pretty easily but at this point we already did enough kino for me to just kiss close next ... all within like 5 minutes of meeting. I should have tried to isolate. Actually I wanted them both. I think the same thing might happen tomorrow night and the night after that ... so what do I do lol?

I guess I forgot the whole "make the ho say no" mantra. But I'll work on that tomorrow :woo:

-------------

The making new friends thing sucks. I mean, it's damn hard. I barely have time for any activities outside of working and working out during the week, and on weekends I do have time but I go out and then do some chores. Maybe some dance classes wouldn't be bad.

 

[zekko]

-I'm can draw/paint very well, I have 10 years of studio training, graduated from an art/design school, and have been drawing since 4 years old (not something I can easily leverage).

Women love the artistic type, I would play that up if I were you. I've lost a few women to artists over the years, and boy does it p!ss me off. I'm artistic also in that I'm musical, but I don't use it for women, because performing annoys me. It irritates me when people want me to play for them like I'm some blasted juke box or something. I have played in bands though, as recently as a few years ago.

I don't see how you can go wrong with the dance classes. You'd get to meet people and learn some steps too, which can only help. There are so many guys willing to sit on the sidelines when it comes to dancing, knowing how to dance can only be an advantage.

I almost wonder if you're overdoing the workout thing. It's not all about muscles, you know. You could use some of the extra time for other activities. But it's hard to cut back without it all turning to flab.

I know what you mean about being too self critical. I don't think I do bad with women by any means (though I'm not the best either). But what I really want is spectacular results, to be the type of guy where the ladies are beating each other off with sticks to get with me. But to get that type of reaction you're right, I'd probably have to be famous or something. And honestly I'd probably get sick of it quickly. Until then it would be nice though

 

[muscleman]

I'm still not sure how I could play it up though.

As far as the muscles thing goes, I lift so much because I'm extremely passionate about it - it's the highlight of my day, the equivalent of a sitcom to a couch potato if you will. Eventually I'll get into the fitness field professionally (there are a few things I could do), but right now I'm just building the figure I want.

I'm definitely going to look into the dancing stuff.

 

[mrRuckus]

Why do you have it in your mind that you HAVE to be aggressive? What are you meaning when you say that?

I almost wonder if you're overdoing the workout thing. It's not all about muscles, you know.

This is such a negative stereotype about serious lifters. We're not in the gym for hours on end. I'm in the gym a little over 3 hours a week, 3 hours spent way better than damn near anything else that anyone else does. 168 hours in a week and 3 of them spent improving your body is good time management.

 

[Desdinova]

I've got a few comments to make about your initial post...

I've also gotten the off comment before that I "flirt with everyone", which I think may be a detriment.

I've also experienced this first hand, but it certainly isn't a detriment. If you know what's going on and use it to your advantage, it is a point in your favor.

Women are extremely competitive. You wouldn't think so because it's not completely obvious when they show it. If you are the best man in the whole joint and you're interacting with multiple women, they are going to compete for you. Competition gives women an emotional rush.

You'll notice the competition in little ways. They will talk down the other woman in front of you: "OMG, she's all skanked up with no place to go!" I've had the 'privelage' of seeing women compete with each other over who was going to sleep in the same bed with me. The more aggressive woman will win - at least in the short term

There is a downside to having women be extremely competitive over a man. Some women will be competitive just for the sake of being the winner. In other words, she doesn't have any genuine interest in you. She just doesn't want that other slvt to win. After the other slvt is gone, she plays with you for a little, and then tosses you away like a useless toy. Thus, it pays to get the number from EVERY woman who shows some sign of interest in you.

So to summarize, you can use women to get other women. Take advantage of their jealousy and competitiveness to make yourself the winner. The technical term for doing this is 'Social Proof'.

Just as a side note, I knew a guy who was labelled as a 'player'. Me and some other woman were chatting about how much of a player the guy was. Believe it or not, the player and the woman I was talking to got married! The moral of the story is, don't believe that the 'player' label is 100% negative.

 

[muscleman]

Interesting points. By being more aggressive I mean escalating more. I can do it pretty well when I'm alone with a girl ... I can go from meeting a stranger and giving a hug to a makeout and putting my hands anywhere on her in less than 30 minutes, but only when we're alone or relatively alone. So I probably need to work on my isolation.

By the flirting comment I also meant my HB A.D.D, which I think may be a detriment, but on the other hand maybe it's a good thing for competition reasons as you mentioned.

I don't sweat the lifting stereotypes. I spend 10 hours/week at the gym deliberately, because I love it. It's hard to understand for people who aren't serious into lifting; it becomes a (healthy) addiction.

Side note - one interesting thing last night was the jealousy of some of the other guys. Most were pretty cool about the outfit, said it was awesome, etc. A few made the "homo" and "douche bag" comments though, which I ignored because they were literally said to my back. I guess that's the equivalent of girls calling each other slvts.

But the real point I'm trying to make is that I want to become elite, one of the top that girls approach.

 

[Fuglydude]

Dude you seem like a good guy who has his shiite together...

That being said, I think you're also being too much of a nice guy and overly self critical. There's nothing wrong w/ being a nice guy, but dudes like you really shouldn't be overly self critical. As jonwon said, look at your avg. dude, and compare yourself to him. I'm not suggesting you become conceited, etc, but just don't let your self assessment and drive to become better affect your confidence w/ women.

When I was single, I had decent success w/ women because of my social status, as I was a stripper. I think women were drawn to me more because I was a "high risk", "fun" guy... ei: promiscuous, drug use, etc. The most success I had was when I consistently had a "I know I'm the shiite" mentality. Again, I'm not saying to be a conceited a-hole, but perhaps tone it down when it comes to being overly critical w/ yourself.

With respect to showing skin, if you're single and you got it and the weather permits... definitely flaunt it. This is a great way to get women to approach you. I've been approached on the street, waiting in line for food, even on the bus (some 19 year old chic told me I had a nice "tush"... I was wearing scrubs...). Skin sells. You're passionate about taking care of your body... let your body do some work for you too.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, but bars/clubs IMO are not the best places to meet quality women if you're looking for more than a one night stand. Dance classes, fitness classes at your gym, activities like climbing, co-ed sports leagues, are in my opinion, much better places for meeting hot fit babes. Based on your fitness lifestyle I'm assuming you'd prefer to screw hot fit women. Furthermore, activities other than your regular training regimen will give your body variety, and benefit your overall physical progress.

If you're in great shape you should seriously consider being a fitness model. Not only can you make decent money once you're established, but it will definitely motivate you to train even harder. Being in shape is hard work, so why not get compensated for it? You'll also get asked to do boy-girl shoots. This is a great opportunity for meeting hot model chics.

Since your training is in the visual arts, have you considered about being a part-time photographer? You can set up a studio in your condo and offer TFP (time for prints) to local models. Again, another means of meeting/interacting w/ hot women in a one-on-one situation. Since you're artistic and have training in graphic design, I'm assuming you're good w/ photoshop. This is an invaluable skill for photographers today. My gf is models professionally, and says many photographers phuck some of their models. These dudes are often old, fat and balding...

You got a lot going for you man, so don't be so critical of yourself, and more importantly, don't let it affect your success w/ women. Also, consider different means of meeting HOT women, other than the bar/club environment.

 

[muscleman]

Nice response, let me hit a few points:

Yes I like hot girls, if they're fit/into fitness even better but not a requirement. I'm not looking for a relationship right now, so meeting girls who I have a lot in common with isn't a really high concern of mine. If they look good and don't have too many issues (not gonna do a married chick), I'll hit and split. Or maybe hit, hit, hit until she wants more, split.

I have looked into fitness modeling it is something I want to do, but I'm still a ways off from having the body I want. It's a very competitive field and if you've ever been to a bodybuilding competition you'll know that you truly have to be elite to do serious fitness modeling. I think sometime around summer of next year I should be good to go. I've already done TF shoots. Yes I'm a decent photographer and good with photoshop, but I have no interest in becoming a photographer just to meet chicks.

In fact, I have no interest in doing anything uninteresting for the sake of meeting girls. I don't have a whole lot of spare time and although I dedicate a part of it to meeting women, it's going to be on my terms. Dancing is something I'm genuinely interested in, so I'll give it a try. Fitness classes? Eh .. only if I instructed them (which I may well do as I'm working on getting my CPT certification in my spare time).

 

[zekko]

This is such a negative stereotype about serious lifters. We're not in the gym for hours on end. I'm in the gym a little over 3 hours a week, 3 hours spent way better than damn near anything else that anyone else does. 168 hours in a week and 3 of them spent improving your body is good time management.

? I said nothing negative about serious lifters. I also lift about three hours a week. But the OP said he's in the gym 10 hours a week, not three. Obviously he's going for a higher standard if he wants to get into competitive bodybuilding. I respect anyone who takes care of their body. I was just throwing the idea out there as food for thought.

There's only so much time in a week and you have to decide what is really important to you. Since he said he wanted more time to socially network I suggested the possibility of cutting down his time in the gym, especially since he said his physique is in the top 5% of guys. But I definitely understand why he would not want to cut that back, especially if he wants to get into the fitness field. If he actually does get into the fitness field maybe he can work out while he's at work and save himself some time that way.

 

[jophil28]

Just as a side note, I knew a guy who was labelled as a 'player'. Me and some other woman were chatting about how much of a player the guy was. Believe it or not, the player and the woman I was talking to got married! The moral of the story is, don't believe that the 'player' label is 100% negative.

Yes, the word "playa" is often delivered by a woman with a hiss and a scowl ,and other men who hear this tone in her voice understandably interpret that as revulsion of disapproval at the least.

However here is the womanspeek translation,
" He intrigues me...he's hot. He is just so ****sure around those other baitches. Dammit, I am so pissed that he does not show any interest in ME ."

 

[old married dude]

Yes, the word "playa" is often delivered by a woman with a hiss and a scowl ,and other men who hear this tone in her voice understandably interpret that as revulsion of disapproval at the least.

Or if you're called a player, you can deflect that comment with a little humor. If I was called a player, I would respond with "I'm not a player I just crush a lot." lol (Big Pun)

 

[muscleman]

So, I have a bit of a story from last night. Me and my wing went downtown to a pretty big bar/club and it got PACKED. Girls were all over us taking pictures and rubbing our stomachs and what not (I'm decently built and have a moderately defined 6 pack). The costumes are a super easy opener and I ended up with 3 number closes, my wing with 1 (though I'm proud of him ... I think the girl he got was hotter than all the ones I did). I ended up kissing some girl from a bachelorette crew. Unsuccessful in bringing any girls back with us, but it was nevertheless fun and a good learning experience. I could have done some things differently, but overall it was great.

We kinda felt like miniature celebrities as there was only 1 other guy there besides us who was built and had minimal attire. We literally just paced back and forth in the club all night getting stopped to take pictures with all sorts of girls. Compliments everywhere from everyone. Lot of kino too, but still no fvck. Oh well, it's a work in progress.

One reason I'm saying this though is because (as me and my wing were discussing after) having a great body is such an easy opener. In fact girls open you in situations like last night. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to leverage that on a regular basis ... dressing up in costumes isn't exactly a normal weekend thing and it's not like I can just take my shirt off in the middle of a group of people. I also need to work on my number closing a bit, I still get nervous for no real reason.

And of course I need to work on my non-physical game.

I like to think I'm not an attention wh0re, but I gotta admit it's nice being the center of things (or alpha, however you want to call it). I can see how girls let it go to their heads. This makes me want to "get famous" even more, but I have no idea what it is that I want to do long term that will achieve that and will be interesting at the same time. Maybe I should take a half hour out of every day and sit in silence with a pad and pen and brainstorm ...

Tonight we're meeting up with a couple female friends who are making dinner for us and then we're all going pub crawling. Should be a good time, especially since we have a place to crash. We'll see what happens :woo:

 

[zekko]

We kinda felt like miniature celebrities as there was only 1 other guy there besides us who was built and had minimal attire.

Dude, if you can get that kind of reaction by all means stay in the gym. There's a bit of a male stripper vibe to this though.

As for how to leverage, what about the beach, kayaking, or other kind of water sport where you can take your shirt off without it looking so obvious?

I have nothing against attention hoes personally. Sh!t, if I could get attention from the opposite gender with looks alone, I'd probably be all over it too. But I know that as a man, an attention ho has nothing good to offer me. So from my perspective, it's better for me if I just stay away from them.

 

[Fuglydude]

So, I have a bit of a story from last night. Me and my wing went downtown to a pretty big bar/club and it got PACKED. Girls were all over us taking pictures and rubbing our stomachs and what not (I'm decently built and have a moderately defined 6 pack). The costumes are a super easy opener and I ended up with 3 number closes, my wing with 1 (though I'm proud of him ... I think the girl he got was hotter than all the ones I did). I ended up kissing some girl from a bachelorette crew. Unsuccessful in bringing any girls back with us, but it was nevertheless fun and a good learning experience. I could have done some things differently, but overall it was great.

We kinda felt like miniature celebrities as there was only 1 other guy there besides us who was built and had minimal attire. We literally just paced back and forth in the club all night getting stopped to take pictures with all sorts of girls. Compliments everywhere from everyone. Lot of kino too, but still no fvck. Oh well, it's a work in progress.

One reason I'm saying this though is because (as me and my wing were discussing after) having a great body is such an easy opener. In fact girls open you in situations like last night. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to leverage that on a regular basis ... dressing up in costumes isn't exactly a normal weekend thing and it's not like I can just take my shirt off in the middle of a group of people. I also need to work on my number closing a bit, I still get nervous for no real reason.

And of course I need to work on my non-physical game.

I like to think I'm not an attention wh0re, but I gotta admit it's nice being the center of things (or alpha, however you want to call it). I can see how girls let it go to their heads. This makes me want to "get famous" even more, but I have no idea what it is that I want to do long term that will achieve that and will be interesting at the same time. Maybe I should take a half hour out of every day and sit in silence with a pad and pen and brainstorm ...

Tonight we're meeting up with a couple female friends who are making dinner for us and then we're all going pub crawling. Should be a good time, especially since we have a place to crash. We'll see what happens :woo:

Zekko nailed it on the head w/ his male stripper comment.

I mostly do stagettes now, but when we perform at clubs that kind of attention is very common place... All that attention is nice, and some guys find it quite addictive. Girls will grope you, want pics, and after shows is when it can get really nuts. I've seen 2 girls suck off one of our guys in the back of our van while we watch, pig roasts, etc. Recently one of my buddies phucked 3 girls in one night. They just came to his hotel room after the show (he was eating and didn't really wanna hang out w/ them)... and ended up screwing all of em one after the other. He said the other girls would just watch TV and hang out while one was getting phucked! Its totally hilarious the kinds of shiite that girls do sometimes! I have so many funny stories like that.

Girls like sex... A LOT. If you're built and attractive, they WANT your cack in their holes. Always assume that. Muscleman, I still think you're being too nice of a guy and not closing aggressively enough. I sense this is a part of your personality. Seriously dude, if you're getting that kind of attention the only reason you're not getting laid that night is because you're not being aggressive enough w/ your approaches.

One of the bad things about being attractive/built is that it can actually affect your game negatively. When you're built you can rely on it to do a lot of the work for you, therefore, your game doesn't need to be as sharp as your avg. dude. I think I've always had the game of an obese star trek/dungeons n' dragons nerd who masturbates to cartoon porn and lives in his parents' basement. I still got laid when I was single, but usually didn't get the kinds of girls I wanted. Your build will only take you so far... the rest is your game/personality, etc.

 

[muscleman]

Get ready for a long ass read...

Fugly - first I assume you're not fugly if you're a male stripper, but that's beside the point. I've had some time to think over this and get some more insight. I want to start off with the story of last night:

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Me and my wing met up with some friends for a small dinner/pregame at their place. Hung out there for a while, drank a little, everyone got dressed, and then we went pub crawling. We all started out as one group but after the first bar split up to do our own thing - they wanted to stay at one place longer and we wanted to hit up as many joints as possible, plus the scene at the first bar was slim pickings. I think we went to 6-8 bars. Got lots of pictures taken, same thing as Friday night but better. Did better on the number closes, I got 8 my wing got 5. The facebook cascade is beginning.

Game was definitely better for both of us. Just these past 3 outings we got progressively better with number closes, opening girls (well ... a lot of them opening us), flirting, etc. As the night went on there were two girls who we met at one bar and then later ran into again. They were really into us and we ended up spending a good 30% of the remainder of our time with them. In retrospect I wish we hadn't. People thought they were our girlfriends, and they weren't all that hot, barely meeting my threshold (oh who am I kidding, I would have fvcked her last night but not sober now). It also effectively stopped any additional gaming with other girls, even if we did get more pictures and practice. Anyway, besides the groping and pictures and what not, there were some interesting points which I think I can take something away from:

1) The stripper vibe you mentioned was definitely there. Some older lady put a $5 bill in my speedo (2 free beers, sweet). And of course girls had their hands all over us (and a tranny, unfortunately).

2) Some pretty hot girl who my wing gamed and number closed was on her way out of the bar, supposedly holding some dude's hand as she was walking out, and as she passed me she straight up kissed me. Nice big fat plant right on the lips. I never even talked to her. Kinda feel sorry for the dude if he was an important figure. Hot chicks need to randomly kiss me more often :woo:

3) I was flirting decently with another girl and the whole time her blatantly AFC boyfriend was right behind her. I felt a little sorry for him; he never said a word. After a few minutes I asked her who she was here with and she pointed to him, and I introduced myself and all that, then went elsewhere.

4) The two chicks who kept following us around were super easy targets. I guess it's because I really wasn't interested in mine, but my wing seemed all about his so I "took one for the team". She even bought me a couple drinks, would talk all up in my face (she was waiting for me to kiss her and I did oblige at the end). Looking back on it I played the "be the prize" part to a tee. I was genuinely not that interested in her and she did a good job proving her worth.

She was kinda freaky though, and not very shy. She had one tit pierced and as we were talking about it she pulls down her shirt to show me her boob, right in the middle of the bar. Sweet. But, she also told me she was married, has 4 kids (wtf?!), her husband was there (wtf?! x2, I met him before knowing he was her husband), but that they were swingers so it's ok and she's into threesomes with other girls. Sounds fun right? If only she were hotter ... she gave me her number, told me to call her, but I don't think I will after seeing the pics today. Unless she has a hot friend ... I've never had a threesome so maybe, but probably not. At the end of the night my wing wasn't aggressive enough in securing his target and "my" girl didn't want the slvt label alone and didn't want to come back with me. Good, it sounds like trouble when I weigh the pros and cons.

5) I'm going to have a fun time figuring out who's who. I have 8 numbers and only 2 with "name hints" aka "jane the vampire". I should have known better. There are 4 girls whose names all start with the same letter. I think I'm going to have to work the facebook picture angle to figure out who I'm actually speaking with.

6) There were two girls I number closed without any sort of "angle". I just straight up said "give me your number, we should hang out sometime". Pretty simple, right? It took some balls on my part though; I'm learning to be more straightforward.

We ended up coming back to our friends' place and passing out there. It was definitely a fun night, we probably got about 50 pictures taken excluding the ones with our camera, so if/when I get a hold of some of these girls the tagging will be even more robust. Still, the fat lady hasn't sung yet so we'll see how the follow-through happens.

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I guess fit guys are quite a minority because although this was a different part of town, we saw maybe 3-4 guys the whole night (out of hundreds) who were in good shape. Anyway, here are some of my thoughts:

1) I am still too nice. I need to be more aggressive because really my mind is the only thing holding me back at this point. I'm working on it though and the baby steps are becoming quite large steps.

2) While I am at the best shape of my life right now, I'm still pretty far from where I want to be. Hopefully I'll stick to what I'm doing and by this time next year I will be jacked enough to be on the cover of a fitness mag. If I get this kind of response now with where I'm currently at (with girls asking me if my abs/pecs are real and touching everything), I can't imagine what will happen a year from now. Hopefully they'll just drop their panties I will literally be #1 as far as physique goes. I know what I can achieve in a year and from all the guys I've seen the past few days no one will come close, except maybe my wing, but that's a good thing.

3) My looks do result in a lower level of game since I don't have to try as hard to initially attract girls. However, as of today things are "back to normal" with normal clothes so I'll have plenty of chances to work on my "real" game. We're still going to keep an eye out for general themed parties ... most costumes can be made with little clothing on. Fugly you said you "had bad game", how did you change that? Just practice? Did the stripping help?

4) I definitely enjoy kino more than conversation and to that end me and my wing both agreed that we need to start going more to clubs and less to bars, or at least bars with dance floors. I need to learn how to dance, so I'm going to take some hip hop or similar lessons. For a lot of bars with dance floors, it's also a good way to close girls (I think) without saying much of anything. Don't get me wrong I'm not against conversation, but I realized some time ago that kino is 10000000x more effective than anything I could say. I see talk as fluff, a sort of "distraction" from the kino which is the real meat & potatoes.

5) I have two concerns about male stripping: public proof and other guys. I don't want to ever strip for other dudes. I don't care how much it pays, not gonna happen. I assume this is not a problem if almost all of what you do are bachelorette parties, right? The second issue is pictures. I don't want pics of me ending up on someone's facebook. Is there some sort of clause to prevent that? Granted I typically don't see pics of bachelorettes with strippers on social networking sites, but I have ran into a few and it's not something I'd want to be caught with.

Fugly - interesting story about the aftermath of bachelorette parties. Got any instances of your own? Do girls at bachelorette parties get freaky or is it kind of a standard "here just take your clothes off and we'll give you money" type thing? What kind of prior training is involved? Since I do want to learn how to dance anyway this could be a good supplement.

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All in all this weekend was a huge eye opener and permanent confidence booster. I've never gotten this kind of attention, but then again I've never done what I did this year either. I'm really glad me and my wing are on the same wavelength in terms of goals (fitness, girls, etc), we're both progressing well, and we're both interested in doing new things and not always going to the same place or hanging out with the same crowd.

Also, regarding being "above average", I realize I'm there, but it's not where I want to be. I'm not ok with just being above average, or good, or even great. I want to be elite.

 

[synergy1]

whats interesting is that I found myself in your shoes to an extent asking the same question. I am in pretty good shape myself, and can go through all the cycles w/ a girl within 10 minutes of meeting her. Chat it up, if shes not interested I dump her and go look for another one to talk too. This can happen 10 times or more in a night, its like A.D.D as eluded too earlier. Last night was such a night for me and I ended the evening asking myself the same question, as I seem stuck isolating just as you are.

The bar scene poses some difficulties. Most women never go out alone, and when they are with their friends they are subject to extreme peer pressure. Going home with a random dude carries with it serious repercussions if its not played right. My thought processes is to always talk to the friends and by doing so become more than a 'random dude' ; instead of having their friends work against me, their praise works in my favor. This should work, but I still find it hard to come away from any situation with more than a make out session or a phone numbers. This certainly works well in social networks , but that is beyond the scope of this post.

The question is how can you get to the next level? One possible solution would be to scrap the alcohol and hit em where they don't expect it. Women expect guys to try and sex them up at bars, so they are fully prepared for it. Personally speaking, I don't really approach outside of the party scene, but I suspect that the results might be different when a girl isn't with her friends out on the town. Do you ever approach and close girls at the store, at the gym or anything like that?

 

[Fuglydude]

Synergy had some great points regarding the difficulty of isolating in the club/bar scene. I think the number close/make out thing is common... you can get laid after that, ei: call her after the clubs closed and put it in her ass.

I'll reiterate my point that bars/clubs are crappy places to meet women.

To answer your questions Muscleman:

I know I'm reasonably attractive. I'm only 5'8" 170-180 lbs. I've been training for over 10 years and still can't deadlift 500 lbs or squat 400 lbs... so I'm nothing special. Pics below. I have other pics around on different posts.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/Treydesmon/DSC02411.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/Treydesmon/DSC02440.jpg

Regarding your points about being in what you consider "elite shape"... the only reason this will help you is because your confidence will be boosted. You're obviously in great shape already, so being in better shape probably won't induce spontaneous panty dropping... Oh and total props on introducing yourself to that chic's bf and leaving them be. Total karma points on that one.

Regarding my lack of game... I'm not really sure how I changed it... I still don't think my game is that strong. I kind of have a "stripper mode", and a "normal" mode. In stripper mode, I know I'm way more social, outgoing, sexual, flirty, etc. Whereas, otherwise I'm pretty laid back, goofy, keep to myself, etc. Its different when you're in a committed relationship, because I don't really need to work on my game to get other chics anymore.

Stripping definitely helped my game as it gave me a lot more confidence w/ women and taught me that women LOVE sex, and that many are phucked in the head. The attention and social proof didn't hurt my cause either. I got into a monogamous relationship w/ my current gf after 8 months of dancing (I've been dancing almost 3.5 years now), so all in all didn't have a huge amount of practice. I guess my game was aided by the status of being a dancer, as well as drug use and partying, which women have construed to be "dangerous" or whatever... Women told me I was a "fun" guy... aka, they'd sleep w/ me, but wouldn't date me.

I understand your concerns about stripping. I have done shows at fag bars early on in my career, but just do stagettes now, w/ the occasional male revue at a ladies night. I'm a free lance entertainer, so I choose where and when I dance. I'm slowly getting out of the industry, as I don't want people from my real job to know what I do. I'm an critical care RN, so I work w/ mostly women. I actually have had people from work at stagettes that I've performed at... I still stay in it because I still enjoy it, and the money is so easy. At stagettes most women will ask you if they can take pictures, so you can just tell them you don't want pics, etc.

What we do after shows depend on lotsa things. If its a stagette I'll go eat and just come home, or go out w/ my gf. If we're outta town performing at a ladies night, we'll stay and party for a bit. Girls are a lot more willing to leave with you after shows because of the social proof/status of being a dancer, especially if you've had a good show. When I was single, I've had a few instances where I've met up w/ girls later on in the night, after initially meeting them at the show. I've had MANY more instances where I was hooked up and had opportunities to cheat, but didn't give in... This took A LOT of self control in some instances as the girls were really attractive. I'm almost 28 years old, and at this stage in my life I value my relationship w/ my gf more than casual sex w/ random women.

Girls at stagettes can get kinda freaky... but its all just good fun. I've had 3 girls lick whip cream off me at the same time (one off my crotch... I wasnt' nekkid though), been asked by a hot female stripper to "shake up a bottle of champaigne, put it between my legs and spray it all over [her] face", had my ass/nipples bitten, had women tickle the end of my cack w/ money, etc. etc.

As long as you're having fun, not being a douche, entertaining them, and doing your job, you'll get tipped well. Its not uncommon to clear 7-800 cash a night for doing 3 stagettes. My record is close to 1200 in one night for 4 stagettes. One time I was flown up into Northern Canada, and pulled almost a grand for a stagette. Its a fun job man... I've had a good run w/ many funny stories. I definitely don't regret it, but you eventually have to grow up.

As far as training... in my opinion, build is the most important thing, especially at stagettes. You often will not have a whole lot of floor space to work with to display your dancing. Male revue shows are different. Dance classes are a great option. Like any other activity/skill, you get good at dancing by practicing. You can do basic drills like just listening to a song on your computer and moving your head to the beat. If you're walking somewhere, put on some head phones and walk to the beat. Hitting beats is a basic skill to have w/ hip hop and electronic music. If you're interested contact your local booking agencies, and they'll let you know how to get started.

Hope I answered your questions w/o being too long-winded.