Aging and changing body composition.

[Fuglydude]

Hi all,

Been a long time since I posted... Good to be back.

I should probably be posting this in the health and fitness section, but I need the older dude's help on this so I'm gonna post it here. Hopefully it doesn't get moved.

I'm 31. I've been training regularly for close to 14 years and have made substantial gains in that time frame. However, in the last year or so, I'm noticing my body is really changing, and not for the better.

Its much harder now to stay lean. In the past I've been caliper tested at 8-9% bf. I'm talking veins in my lower abs, visible vasculature in my quads, etc. My aesthetic peak was probably at around 25-26, and my strength/performance peak was at a bit older around 27-28. I had my deadlift bodyweight coefficient at 2.7, squat coefficient at 2+, and at could do a set of 8-10 pull ups with 100 lbs around my waist.

Currently, I test at close to 14% bf and have minimal abdominal definition in my lower abdomen. I still have visible vasculature in the delts/upper chest but my lower abdomen (spare tire area as I call it!) is a really big problem area...NO pun intended haha! It doesn't help that I'm east Indian, and am cursed with the dreaded curry belly genetics (poor insulin sensitivity)! Its like there's a fat magnet in my gut area and all the bad weight I put on is concentrated there. My skin fold measurements on my arms and legs are all 4-5 mm, while my abdominal is like 35 mm!!!!

I know I have be more focused on sticking to a cleaner/leaner diet. In addition I have to do something to help my cardiovascular conditioning.

My question to you gentlemen is how has your body changed since you have aged? What specific things have you done to combat negative changes? Is there some specific cardiovascular-intensive training that has worked well for you? I know diet is a very individual thing, but how have you changed around your diet?

Thanks in advance.

 

[LongLostFriend]

If you haven't, try going Paleo on the diet. I have amazing results with it.

 

[synergy1]

Long time no see. In a way I am glad you posted this because lately I have been noticing a similar decline in not only my fitness, but a longer recovery time from various injuries whereas I used to bounce back. In regards to strength and recovery, it seemed that my peak was 28/29 but I was getting more sleep back than. Now after intense workouts ( heavy lifts), it seems my recovery is a bit longer as my joints hurt more. It also hinders how well I play sports when I chose to do them.

And also I agree with you on the whole fat accumulating in the android region. I eat better now ( but still drink), and notice the accumulation of weight down in that area more than when I was in my mid 20s. I think its coupled with the fact that our bodies are less efficient if we eat crap...I can't eat anything crappy without feeling it. Back in college I could eat like **** and play 4 hours of hockey and feel fine the next day.

So any suggestions on how to combat this? I am still single and want to get that look. been trying to stick with healthy meals like eggs, berries, nuts, chicken, vegies etc and minimizing carbs. Drinking and higher sugar intake are issues. What is your diet like?

 

[expos]

My question to you gentlemen is how has your body changed since you have aged? What specific things have you done to combat negative changes? Is there some specific cardiovascular-intensive training that has worked well for you? I know diet is a very individual thing, but how have you changed around your diet?

Thanks in advance.

I'm a little bit older than you. 33.

I'm between 8-10% body fat and my body is the best it's ever been. I'm a guy who logs anywhere from 50-70 miles a week running. I'm a competitive runner in distances ranging from the mile to the 5K and I do absolutely brutal track workouts.

So I've got say CARDIO CARDIO CARDIO has what kept my body fat low. I'm pretty skinny (6-2 / 158), and I think it scares the ladies away --- but the bottom line is that I feel good and people often think I'm still in my mid-20's.

I think cardio becomes even more important as we get older. You should make that your emphasis in addition to a good weight training program. I can put on weight really fast if I don't watch what I eat. The days of eating two pizzas a week are over, so you need to eat a lot of oatmeal, lots of fruit/veggies, drink a lot of water, and always keep a large supply of grilled chicken breast in your fridge. If you want to look good, these are sacrifices you need to make.

 

[020204]

I am more inclined to think some of you guys have simply hit plateaus in your training, and possibly hit a wall in your training. I am 42 and have stayed natural although I rely on supps like creatine and post workout products. I find I still have a fast metabolism, and that is why I try not to burn out on cardio too much. I don't drive a car so walk and ride a bike regularly. If you have been training for years you need to change things around and it doesn't hurt having a hobby or a sport which you are passionate about. For me that is surfing and bodyboarding. There are numerous things that can help you when you get older, being in your 30s and 40s is nowhere near too old at the gym especially if you have looked after yourself. In my view gear and hgh is for when I am older, that is how I will address any decline if it comes.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Fugly,
Some time in the past you made a decision to adopt your narcissistic regime....Why did you do it then?...have you forgotten? ..If you were a sensible bloke,it would have been a means to an end,not an end in itself...Body building has to be the most ephemeral of pursuits...Perhaps at one time you thought it would pull Pvssy,but it sure as Hell won't in ten twenty years time...Amazingly most women will go for a tall cultured bloke with a dominating frame that his genetic inheritance gave him any Day...Sure work on fitness,but if you become obsessive about it,you will only win points with female Gym Junkies and you will have heaps of competition there,for what? a night in the sack with with a bag of tent pegs?

 

[zekko]

I am more inclined to think some of you guys have simply hit plateaus in your training, and possibly hit a wall in your training. I am 42 and have stayed natural although I rely on supps like creatine and post workout products. I find I still have a fast metabolism, and that is why I try not to burn out on cardio too much.

Some people are fortunate to have genetics such that they stay thin all their lives, I suspect such is the case with you. When I was younger I had a ridiculously fast metabolism. I could eat whatever I wanted and not gain weight. But I was too skinny so I always was trying to bulk up. '

Anyway, when I was about 36 I noticed what the OP was posting about. I was starting to put some fat on my abdomen, for the first time in my life. Generally speaking, you're putting on fat all over, but for men most of it tends to collect on the abdomen. Same if you want to lose fat, you have to lose fat all over to lose it in the abdomen. I've remained physically active, but now I have to watch my eating habits, and at times I've had to go on diets to cut weight, which is a pain in the ass. I'd love to have that young man's metabolism back again.

Speaking about a wall in your training, I don't think it's realistic to expect to be continually increasing the intensity of your workouts indefinitely. At some point you're going to reach a limit. At 52, I've found that I've had to reduce the amount of weight I lift, or I get severe joint pain/injuries/issues. So I lift to maintain now, rather than build muscle. Cardio is probably more important to me than ever (although I've always done a lot of it), and especially diet.

 

[Fuglydude]

Syn, great to hear from you man. Hope things are going well with you. To be brutally honest, my diet could definitely use work. I don't have a lot to train for now, as in I don't have a lot of accountability when it comes to fitness goals. Therefore, its hard to make and stick to a good diet. In addition, the older I get the more I believe that diet and even exercise program development is an extremely individual thing...ei: what is most effective for me won't be effective for you and vice versa. Although I have an idea, I'm still struggling to figure out what my body responds to.

Thanks for the reply and let me know how're you doing.

LLF, I've heard of paleo, and definitely am a strong believer in the core tenets of eating non-processed, natural whole foods. Can you elaborate a bit more on it?

Expos, ya, you're definitely right... I NEED to do some sort of cardio. I have a part time business doing site maintenance work for commercial properties. This involves some walking around, light cardio, but I think my body needs more. I'm currently sitting at 5'8" - 185, and have rather thin, weak ankles so running is tough! However, I was thinking about things like biking, or maybe MMA. Are you able to eat what you want (within reason) due to how much cardio you do? Believe it or not, I can actually drop weight fast, simply by reducing my caloric intake and restricting carbs, etc. However, my fitness goal over the next few years is to get my lean body mass to 170 lbs. Just wish I could do it while staying lean.

020204... I've delved into gear during my 20s, when I was making money off my body and/or competing. Currently I'm experiment with very low dose HGH and anavar to see how my body responds. I can't justify using stuff that's harsher at this point in my life as I'm no longer making money off my body and I'm not competing in anything.

Dear Fugly,
Some time in the past you made a decision to adopt your narcissistic regime....Why did you do it then?...have you forgotten? ..If you were a sensible bloke,it would have been a means to an end,not an end in itself...Body building has to be the most ephemeral of pursuits...Perhaps at one time you thought it would pull Pvssy,but it sure as Hell won't in ten twenty years time...Amazingly most women will go for a tall cultured bloke with a dominating frame that his genetic inheritance gave him any Day...Sure work on fitness,but if you become obsessive about it,you will only win points with female Gym Junkies and you will have heaps of competition there,for what? a night in the sack with with a bag of tent pegs?

Valid point sir, however, please understand that I lift and train because I LOVE it. I go a bit nutty without physical activity. I love the endorphins it gives me. I love the feeling of throwing iron around for no good reason, simply because I can! I think bodybuilding/fitness is even more important as we age vs. when we are young. Muscle and coupled w/ a good cardiovascular system and lungs is integral for a good quality of life. I work in critical care and people that are healthy/fit and are unfortunate enough to suffer a catastrophic illness/injury are much more likely to have a better recovery than people who were unhealthy to begin with. I can definitely see how you think its an ephermal pursuit as you say, however, the benefits are diverse and long standing through out many life stages. Please note that I'm happily married and not looking to pick up girls at the gym or anything. My wife is a model/figure competitor and going to the gym regularly/eating right is simply a part of our lifestyle. I hear you about women liking "tall cultured bloke with a dominating frame"... unfortunately, I'm a 5'8" naturally thinner indian dude with an above average nervous system. Being muscular, lean and healthy, has made it A LOT easier for me to get women. Maybe its because I have no game, haha!

To me life is about constant self improvement and becoming the best that I can be. Bodybuilding/fitness is simply a part of this, and far from something that takes over my entire life. I work fulltime, run a business, and am looking to go back to school and get an MD in the next few years.

Like I said, you've inspired me to make a thread/post on the importance of fitness/bodybuilding as we age. Stay tuned haha!

Zekko, hope you've been well. I agree with the training variation that you are suggesting and definitely agree. I'm very lucky in that I've been relatively injury free over my life, however, I know I can no longer consistently handle heavy weights EVERY time I go to the gym like I used to. I really like it in a way as it helps me to be more body aware. In addition, I think varying training, as you say, is important for progression and being able to get through plateaus.

Again thanks to everyone for the replies.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Fugly,
Thanks for your thought provoking response.....I have never met a Man such as you....As someone who has used weights since the age of fourteen,I am genuinely amazed that anyone could actually enjoy doing this for its own sake....But then I love History,I am sure many Students sit in on very interesting History Tutorials and are bored shvitless....I shall try being more open minded.

 

[Jitterbug]

Hey Fug welcome back you fat bastard!

As I approach 30 and beyond, I've been getting leaner, stronger and more athletic than I've ever been. I also recover faster from training than most of the young blokes at my lifting club.

My dad at 62 is leaner and stronger than himself between age 35-60. He's on paleo diet and lifts weights 3x weekly.

A friend of mine is a Filipino with fat genes (apparently) who now at 32 y.o is a ripped mofo with 8% BF, from being 100kg and 40+% BF at 25. He's on leangains and trains like a crazy mofo, no vitamins.

The vast majority of powerlifters (I lift and coach) peak way after their early 30s. Many are still setting all time PBs in their late 40s and early 50s. I"m talking clean guys too. You are a spring chicken in the strength game.

Is it harder as you get older? Absolutely, but not that hard. There are things you can't quite get away with when you get older, but it doesn't mean there isn't any you can do about it.

What I"m pointing out is that you have some limiting beliefs. You used to rely on special vitamins and you've trained for a long time that you don't think you can learn more. Now that you somehow convince yourself you're old, you think it's getting too hard.

I did a workshop with one of the strongest men in the world recently. He told us about his experience of being open to learn new things after training for 20 years with top lifters (he's been lifting for 30 years). At first he thought he couldn't possibly get any stronger faster, because he'd been in the game for so long and apparently learned everything there is to learn. Yet he decided to put ego and limiting beliefs aside, trained in a different way and went from average strong guys in the country to an elite world class lifter.

I'm not going to bring up specifics here because it'd be too long and only you would know your intimate goals. Start doing your research pretending you're an average somewhat physically active 31 y.o who wants to get leaner, stronger and fitter, and that your cup is empty i.e no prior knowledge of training and diet. I don't have first hand experience with taking a 14% BF guy down to sub-10% (mine is more like 20+ or 30+% guys down to 12~14%), but I know trainers who do that regularly. And I know for sure you can get a lot stronger.

Some things you can look at as starting points which I've seen successes with either for myself or friends or people I've coached:

Diet templates:

Metabolic Diet by Mauro DiPasquale,
Warrior Diet,
Paleo Diet,
Leangains

Training:

Pavel Tsatouline's work e.g Beyond Bodybuilding, Power to the People / Pro, Relax Into Stretch, Super Joints, various Kettlebell training products
Sheiko training system
Reactive Training System

 

[Bible_Belt]

Brazilian jiu-jitsu is great for the abs and midsection.

 

[backbreaker]

i'll be 30 in 2 months and 1 week and i've never been in better shape in my life. 5'8, between 168 and 170 depending on when you weigh me. i can swim laps in the swimming pool for 45 mins straight and come straight home and have sex lol and still not be worn out.

i have said a few times here i have good genes and i do. i'm good looking and was blessed to have good lookign parents. but i was born with the ****tiest metabolism on the face of the planet so dont' talk to me about bad genes. it's learning what your body is and working aroundi t. i tell some people how much cardio i doa nd they think i'm crazy but dude you aren't me i have to work with my stubborn ass metabolism and keep it high. my point being i can look at a slice of pizza and gain 2 pounds. \

things i think i do that beneift me is i swim just about every day at least 4-5 days a week. it's good for the cardioviscgular system. i just like to swim. even if the cardio affects my muscles to some extent i just enjoy it.

I also don't drink whatsoever, don't drug (ovbiously) and everday my diet is egg whites, a yam, tuna or a smoothie and either chicken and rice or salmon with green beans. i don't take supplements and i don't take any other ****. once a month i have a cheat day. okay maybe 2 times a month.

the only real difference between me now and me 5 years ago is that i HAVE to have 8 hours of sleep now but i make sure i get it come hell or high water. but as long as i have my sleep i'm golden. 5 years ago i could go to the gym come home and get 5 hours of sleep and go back to the gym can'tdo that today

 

[expos]

Expos, ya, you're definitely right... I NEED to do some sort of cardio. I have a part time business doing site maintenance work for commercial properties. This involves some walking around, light cardio, but I think my body needs more. I'm currently sitting at 5'8" - 185, and have rather thin, weak ankles so running is tough! However, I was thinking about things like biking, or maybe MMA. Are you able to eat what you want (within reason) due to how much cardio you do? Believe it or not, I can actually drop weight fast, simply by reducing my caloric intake and restricting carbs, etc. However, my fitness goal over the next few years is to get my lean body mass to 170 lbs. Just wish I could do it while staying lean.

Thin, weak ankles is not an excuse. The best runners out there have chicken legs. I know because I race against them. If you are worried about injuries, run in the grass or on some dirt trails. When people take up running, they run almost all of their miles pavement. This a recipe for disaster. If you want to start running, start gradually. The first week run three days only. 10 minutes each run. Gradually build from there. 10 minutes will eventually become 30 minutes / 5 days a week. Google some beginner runner training plans and if need something more specific, send me a message.

I really don't eat that much, even at 70 miles per week. That's why I'm skinny as hell. I do have cheat meals but I try to not to do it more than twice per week. The thing is, I eat the things that prepare me best for my next training run. I can't eat a Big Mac/Fries than run 12 miles an hour later....so I eat digestable bland foods. This leads to better overall eating habits.

 

[Fuglydude]

Jitter, good to hear from you man. Hope all is well with you!

Backbreaker, props to you for being that dedicated man. I was never even close to that dedicated when I was getting paid for my build... I admire your work ethic A LOT!

Thanks to everyone who posted.

I think the name of the game for me is simply to be more disciplined, consistent with my diet and start doing conditioning work. As jitter said, I've been used to having access to "special vitamins" in the past, and expect gains/body changes to come quickly. I need to STFU, tighten things up and see how I look/feel in 12 weeks.

Thanks again for the feedback and help gentlemen.

 

[XR 600]

Stretching and warming up becomes much more important.Keeping abs toned gets harder,and you have to watch portion sizes,especially dinner! I still lift almost every day.

 

[ebracer05]

In addition to the fantastic advice you already have here, I would advise you to check your testosterone level. You have used gear in the past and if I read you right are using it now. Anavar, even though its mild, is still suppressive. Andropause starts around 30 in general - with gear use, even with good PCT, your levels could be low or on the low side. Even if you took your levels post PCT, if you didn't take them after the SERMs/AI had a chance to clear, you really don't know where your levels are... you won't have any idea where they are until you check them when you don't have exogenous substances interfering with your HPTA.

If you don't have your hormones in good shape, your diet can be dialed in, your training can be spot on, but it will be really really hard or near impossible to get results.

 

[bluenorther]

I was 27 or so when I began adding about five pounds each winter, while I was on my annual hiatus from road cycling. I always have to knock off for two months to recover from the season. I used to be <150#, at 5'9".
I haven't raced in years-- my heart's no good anymore, had 6x bypass surgery 3 years ago! At age forty, though, I switched careers and started blacksmithing-- shoeing horses, which I've done now for 18 years. I haven't been to a gym in all that time, but I've added four inches around my chest and generally bulked up elsewhere. I'm a steady 180# now.

 

[Fuglydude]

In addition to the fantastic advice you already have here, I would advise you to check your testosterone level. You have used gear in the past and if I read you right are using it now. Anavar, even though its mild, is still suppressive. Andropause starts around 30 in general - with gear use, even with good PCT, your levels could be low or on the low side. Even if you took your levels post PCT, if you didn't take them after the SERMs/AI had a chance to clear, you really don't know where your levels are... you won't have any idea where they are until you check them when you don't have exogenous substances interfering with your HPTA.

If you don't have your hormones in good shape, your diet can be dialed in, your training can be spot on, but it will be really really hard or near impossible to get results.

This is a good point. I was a bit low last time I checked, but this was shortly after coming off cycle. I'm only doing 25 mg anavar daily and have just started HGH 2-3 units/daily x 5 days and then 2 days off... We'll see how things affect me.

I plan on getting my levels checked early next year.

Thanks for mentioning this though, as it is a valid point for enhanced trainees.

 

[Nutz]

Here's everything you need to know:

http://www.cbass.com/NoCardio.htm

In summary, they found that few studies have directly compared the effects of RT and endurance training. Those that have appropriately controlled for intensity [emphasis mine] suggest that there are no significant differences in CV or physiological responses. The immediate (acute) responses to RT to momentary muscular failure do not differ from that of traditional training. Heart function appears to be maintained and perhaps enhanced. The response to RT appears to be a speed-up in heart rate and blood flow. The magnitude of local blood flow appears to be determined by contraction intensity. There is little or no information on blood vessel function or nitric oxide production. The continuing or chronic adaptations are more telling. The adaptations include increase in mitochondrial enzymes, proliferation of mitochondria, conversion of muscle fiber type to improve aerobic capacity (surprising but true), and increase in capillarization. (Mitochondria are the oxygen processing powerhouses of the body.)

RT = resistance training
CV = cardiovascular


Here's the hour-long presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAU_sqHGiYw


And here's the 90 minute Doug McGuff presentation where he discusses the biochemistry involved and explains why you can't spot train "cardio" at the cellular level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU


Baye also discusses the fitness community's problem with defining intensity, as well as why it's inappropriate to conflate load with intensity:

http://baye.com/you-dont-know-hit/

This second part touches on similar territory as the McGuff and Steele presentations, and yes, that diet is really all that's required for cutting...so long as other key factors are in play:

http://baye.com/you-dont-know-hit-2/



http://robbwolf.com/2011/11/09/the-case-for-the-short-metcon/

I completely agree with his comment about teh benefit of short metcons--when I realize how bad it sucks it's already halfway over so I power through. Those days there's little to no garbage phase. That's one of the reasons I love when we do prowler or hill sprints. Usually it's only a half-dozen rounds and by the time we're getting tired it's almost over.


http://whole9life.com/2009/12/beware-the-lure-of-the-sexy-met-con/

This is a good caution of high volume metcon work. So long as you're not doing something like the 300 workout all the time you should be fine.


What is "metcon"?

http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php?p=35479&postcount=4


It would serve everyone well reading this to learn more about the body's energy systems and how fitness and diet affects them. Here's a pretty basic primer:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/131444-3-energy-systems-body/

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/energysystems.html

http://ironman.memorialhermann.org/sports-science/how-body-uses-energy/