"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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After recognizing a mistake, how do I effectively enact change?

Genos

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Today, I was at Starbucks doing some work. There was a girl sitting across from me, and I struck up a conversation with her. The interaction went alright, but during the exchange I asked a couple pretty mediocre questions, such as:

Do you go to school nearby?
Where are you from?
How do you like it here?
etc. etc.

As you might predict, the energy level overall was low and we didn't have a lot of fun. I know these sorts of conversational lines are subpar and to be avoided, particularly early on (part of Heartiste's "Stale Seven" questions, even). And I've had interactions in which I (appropriately) didn't use these stale questions - or used them sparingly - had fun, and the woman had fun as well: so I know I've got it in me.

The problem, and core issue of this thread, is that I'm intermittently repeating mistakes (not just the one described above, in general) which I've already identified and know that I should be avoiding. It's actually preeetty frustrating to make the same mistakes again and again. If something new hit me, or I was put into situation I had never experienced before, and then I failed, I could accept it with no regrets, learn from it and move on. But repeating simple errors gets to me, because I know I can do better than what I just displayed.

I've tried keeping a list of sticking points I need to work on, making strong mental notes, etc., but I still trip up on the things I've already encountered. How do y'all effectively make improvements and enact change? I don't feel like I'm progressing as smoothly as I could be.
 
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"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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ubercat

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Sadly it takes time. so you have to choose 1 thing and drill it over and over again until it's in your DNA and then choose the next thing. That is one principle


the other principle is that it's better to focus on the positive. if you concentrate on not doing something then that thing is in your head all the time you are actually sabotaging yourself. it's like not trying to think of the purple elephant.

So take a generic question like how do you like the neighborhood and try and work it into your approaches. Then you are concentrating your mind on what you want to happen instead of what you don't want to happen.

I'm not advocating a whole bunch of canned routines just illustrating the principle.

Makes sense?

And if you're interested in some reading on how to eliminate and create new habits. The books the power of habit and 59 seconds r good. they are also available as audio books. I've bought physical copies for my bookshelf and I revisit them when I need to refocus.
 

Atom Smasher

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Three letters: F U N

Your job is to provide fun, for yourself first and then also for her. When you go in with that attitude you keep tension and awkwardness at bay and pave the way for attraction. Think of providing a fun interaction as your responsibility.
 

Lozboss

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Whenever you text, tinder message or say something think:

Is this something every dull person would say?

Obviously don't be a freak but always be interesting, always keep your cards close to your chest and always let them do the majority of the talking.

As for change- uber is right. You can't change everything st once. Work on the things you can change in parallel. Like gym and your social skills.
 

Glumix

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And perhaps be more compassionate with yourself. There is no perfect conversation every time. Sometimes you are just not in the mood for fun.

You created something with that girl. She doesn't know you at all. Next time you will have a good laugh and that's it. Or perhaps she is just not that interesting and that's why the conversation went dull.

Don Juan rules are great but tend to dehumanize a lot.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

Read more...

Genos

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Thanks for the advice everyone.

And perhaps be more compassionate with yourself. There is no perfect conversation every time. Sometimes you are just not in the mood for fun.

You created something with that girl. She doesn't know you at all. Next time you will have a good laugh and that's it. Or perhaps she is just not that interesting and that's why the conversation went dull.

Don Juan rules are great but tend to dehumanize a lot.
This raises another question which I've had for a while - if an interaction doesn't go well, where (and to whom) do I attribute the need for change? How do I determine whether it was my mistake or hers that the conversation was dull?

Sitting on either end of the spectrum seems to be harmful - thinking it's always the girl's fault is moot for self-improvement, while believing that it was always you who made the mistake makes you change things that may not need to be changed. How do I find a balance, and more importantly be accurate in determining that balance?
 

Lozboss

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You're suffering from analysis paralysis.

Just go out and do, more experience will home your skills, you'll soon know if it's you or them that's boring.
 

ubercat

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LBs on the money. Keep approaching u ll work it out. In summary fix whatever mistakes r annoying YOU the most, have fun - it's a game b amused by it and enjoy the beauty of the players moves. And b kind to yourself. Women s moods fluctuate constantly. That is often what determines success on a given night no matter how tight your game. The experienced guys will tell u there r dry spells, seasonal variations and runs of good luck. Its pretty much like fishing.
 

Glumix

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Thanks for the advice everyone.


This raises another question which I've had for a while - if an interaction doesn't go well, where (and to whom) do I attribute the need for change? How do I determine whether it was my mistake or hers that the conversation was dull?

Sitting on either end of the spectrum seems to be harmful - thinking it's always the girl's fault is moot for self-improvement, while believing that it was always you who made the mistake makes you change things that may not need to be changed. How do I find a balance, and more importantly be accurate in determining that balance?
As stated above, you do not need to ask the question. There is only one spectrum end that you are actually interested in : YOURS.
 

Huffman

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Konduit - you are trying to make the wrong changes.
You are trying to NOT do certain things next time. That's something which your brain can't really focus on.

Rather, do some brainstorming, watch other people, watch youtube videos, and find a couple of things that you want to do INSTEAD. Look at them, think wow - that's super fun! I can't wait to try it!
You'll remember way better, plus have a positive outlook.
 

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

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