After giving it some thought, turns out my fear of rejection isn't *really* a fear of rejection

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

i would never have had non-paid sex if i didn't lower my standards for a woman i had a situationship with back in 2017, my mindset mentality is that, since nature and reality is cruel, unfair, i figure, at times, we have to do cruel unfair things to improve our situation, a good analogy i like is that, for men, success with women is like lifting weights, it helps to go for lower calibre-women as practice before moving onto higher calibre women, use them as training wheels.

People and society will argue and say "thats not fair to the women, because that means you are using them, how would you feel if women did that to you?"

My counterargument to that is, well is it fair that men for all time(who knows if it has, its debateable if it has been that way since the dawn of time) and likely for all eternity, men always having to do the approaching and ask the woman out, lead interactions, initiate everything or almost everything, which lots men have the mindset that men have to do all the work in dating.

No, it isn't fair at all, so to sum it up, since nature and reality is cruel and unfair, that means at times we should do cruel and unfair things as long as it benefits our situation.

 

[GoodMan32]

i would never have had non-paid sex if i didn't lower my standards for a woman i had a situationship with back in 2017, my mindset mentality is that, since nature and reality is cruel, unfair, i figure, at times, we have to do cruel unfair things to improve our situation, a good analogy i like is that, for men, success with women is like lifting weights, it helps to go for lower calibre-women as practice before moving onto higher calibre women, use them as training wheels.

People and society will argue and say "thats not fair to the women, because that means you are using them, how would you feel if women did that to you?"

My counterargument to that is, well is it fair that men for all time(who knows if it has, its debateable if it has been that way since the dawn of time) and likely for all eternity, men always having to do the approaching and ask the woman out, lead interactions, initiate everything or almost everything, which lots men have the mindset that men have to do all the work in dating.

No, it isn't fair at all, so to sum it up, since nature and reality is cruel and unfair, that means at times we should do cruel and unfair things as long as it benefits our situation.

You're damn right it's unfair the men are expected to make the first move, especially when we take into account the fact some men simply aren't cut out for making the first move (whether it be because of shyness, social awkwardness, ASD, social phobia, nervousness, self-confidence issues, or any combination of the above)

Not to mention the fact that, as you've pointed out, we run the risk of getting legal charges if we unknowingly do something "wrong" when pursuing a woman.

I've started reading The Red Pill Sidebar. That book said behaviors that would have been viewed as normal courtship behavior in our grandparents' day are now viewed as "harassment." Unfortunately, this problem goes further back than I realized. As early as the 90s, college boys would get a visit from the cops merely for asking out or flirting with a female clsssmate.

Which brings me to another point addressed in the book: Sometimes it's not even about whether the guy did anything "wrong." Sometimes it's simply a matter of the girl not being into him. For 35 years now, feminists at colleges have brainwashed the female population to think they're entitled to a lifetime without ever getting attention from a guy who isn't her type.

As a result of this phenomenon that's 35 years in the making, a lot of men are reluctant to make moves at all...because he's afraid he might get charged with "harassment" or "stalking" for pursuing a woman who turns out to not be into him.

The man is expected to make the first move, yet could face legal charges for making the first move. Yeah, that makes sense (sarcasm)

Yet the ladies wonder why they don't get approached as much anymore.

 

[GoodMan32]

i would never have had non-paid sex if i didn't lower my standards for a woman i had a situationship with back in 2017, my mindset mentality is that, since nature and reality is cruel, unfair, i figure, at times, we have to do cruel unfair things to improve our situation, a good analogy i like is that, for men, success with women is like lifting weights, it helps to go for lower calibre-women as practice before moving onto higher calibre women, use them as training wheels.

People and society will argue and say "thats not fair to the women, because that means you are using them, how would you feel if women did that to you?"

My counterargument to that is, well is it fair that men for all time(who knows if it has, its debateable if it has been that way since the dawn of time) and likely for all eternity, men always having to do the approaching and ask the woman out, lead interactions, initiate everything or almost everything, which lots men have the mindset that men have to do all the work in dating.

No, it isn't fair at all, so to sum it up, since nature and reality is cruel and unfair, that means at times we should do cruel and unfair things as long as it benefits our situation.

To prevent my last post from getting too long, I'm going to address your other point on this separate post (your point about a man lowering his standards)

If we dip below our place on the looks scale, it's only because our female looksmatches rarely/never want us.

In other words, the phenomenon where we "use" an uglier woman is a problem of the female population's making. Yet then the female population has the nerve to think it's unfair for us to use an uglier woman.

If our female looksmatches don't want us "using" an uglier woman, our female looksmatches should give us a chance.

I'm not saying every man should get a hottie. All I'm saying is every man should get a looksmatch. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And no, it isn't "entitled" of me to say that. If anything, our looksmatch gals are entitled for thinking they deserve a Chad.

A mid-tier woman expects a top-tier man, while a mid-tier man would be happy to simply get a mid-tier woman, yet somehow we're the entitled ones?

I've mentioned on the forum before that I've been told I look like Steve from Blue's Clues.

Obviously Steve isn't going to get the prom queen. Steve at least deserves a decent shape 6/10 woman, however (his looksmatch). Yet a 6/10 is unlikely to give him the time of day. I've had to dip down to some sub-5 fatties simply to get a woman.

 

[SW15]

A mid-tier woman expects a top-tier man, while a mid-tier man would be happy to simply get a mid-tier woman, yet somehow we're the entitled ones?

Rollo Tomassi has said many times in recent years that average tier women are not interested in average tier men.

There are pairings that happen between average tier women and average tier men. Some are made possible by social circles. At other times, the woman is aging (often late 20s/early 30s) and hopes to snag a beta for a faithful husband and having kids near or at "Last Call".

The late 20s/early 30s women that settle for a beta do so after failing to get a commitment from a "hot guy". Often times, they had been riding the penis carousel for many years. In the last 15-20 years, dating websites and dating apps have helped women in riding the penis carousel with hot guys.

Mid-tier women have plenty of options. Mid-tier men are fighting for scraps.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Rollo Tomassi has said many times in recent years that average tier women are not interested in average tier men

A foolish choice on their end. It's also not our problem, as men

 

[GoodMan32]

Rollo Tomassi has said many times in recent years that average tier women are not interested in average tier men.

There are pairings that happen between average tier women and average tier men. Some are made possible by social circles. At other times, the woman is aging (often late 20s/early 30s) and hopes to snag a beta for a faithful husband and having kids near or at "Last Call".

The late 20s/early 30s women that settle for a beta do so after failing to get a commitment from a "hot guy". Often times, they had been riding the penis carousel for many years. In the last 15-20 years, dating websites and dating apps have helped women in riding the penis carousel with hot guys.

Mid-tier women have plenty of options. Mid-tier men are fighting for scraps.

What you're saying is sadly true.

What a fvcked up state of affairs (where an average woman views it as "settling" to get with an average man)

Even more fvcked up is, as I pointed out on the post, the fact we (Mid-tier men who merely want a looksmatch; not a supermodel) are somehow called entitled.

 

[GoodMan32]

A foolish choice on their end. It's also not our problem, as men

Seeing as their choice leads to the scenario @SW15 described (where mid-tier men are fighting for scraps), it is our problem.

 

[Clockwerk50]

What you're saying is sadly true.

What a fvcked up state of affairs (where an average woman views it as "settling" to get with an average man)

Even more fvcked up is, as I pointed out on the post, the fact we (Mid-tier men who merely want a looksmatch; not a supermodel) are somehow called entitled.

It’s tied to the concept of hypergamy, which is the tendency for individuals—particularly women—to seek partners of equal or higher status in areas like resources, social standing, or perceived value. This behavior has deep evolutionary roots. For most of human history, women faced greater biological investment and risk in reproduction, including pregnancy and raising children, which required significant resources and protection. As a result, they evolved to prioritize partners who could offer stability, resources, and safety for them and their offspring.

Because a woman’s reproductive window is limited—fertility declines significantly after the mid-30s—there’s a stronger sense of urgency to choose wisely. Men, on the other hand, typically remain fertile much longer, so their evolutionary pressures to secure a partner have been less time-sensitive, allowing them to focus more on youth and fertility in a mate.

It is just not just about physical appearance; women are often assessing a broader range of qualities that align with their evolutionary programming—such as ambition, emotional intelligence, or stability.

 

[BPH]

@Clockwerk50 and @SW15 can you guys take it to DMs with this dude or something rather than continuing this useless thread? I'm so tired of seeing this dude's dribble at the top of my feed every time I log in.

It is 9 pages of solutions followed by excuses, as is every thread of his, and we are all collectively wasting our time.

Can we please let this thread die and reply to others who actually need and will act on advice? I have been actively trying to reply to OTHER threads to push this one down so I can stop seeing it but people keep reviving it.

He has literally said he has no interest in improving and wants to focus on finding the women who are still interested in his sub-par self...that should be evident of who we're dealing with here.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Seeing as their choice leads to the scenario @SW15 described (where mid-tier men are fighting for scraps), it is our problem.

Our only "problem", as men, is becoming something more than "average"... Not for the sake of women, but for ourselves, as average men end up on the lower rungs in all areas of life more generally

There's nothing to be done for mid-tier women who cling to infantile fantasies of finding true love with a billionaire who also happens to be a Calvin Klein model

 

[Clockwerk50]

@Clockwerk50 and @SW15 can you guys take it to DMs with this dude or something rather than continuing this useless thread? I'm so tired of seeing this dude's dribble at the top of my feed every time I log in.

It is 9 pages of solutions followed by excuses, as is every thread of his, and we are all collectively wasting our time.

Can we please let this thread die and reply to others who actually need and will act on advice? I have been actively trying to reply to OTHER threads to push this one down so I can stop seeing it but people keep reviving it.

He has literally said he has no interest in improving and wants to focus on finding the women who are still interested in his sub-par self...that should be evident of who we're dealing with here.

Just wait for it, he is reading the red pill so his villain arc is just starting Hopefully by the end of the book he will start working out so he can get a Megyn Kelly look alike lol

But I agree with you with the bolded part; that comment alone should have been enough to send him to the showers.

 

[GoodMan32]

It’s tied to the concept of hypergamy, which is the tendency for individuals—particularly women—to seek partners of equal or higher status in areas like resources, social standing, or perceived value. This behavior has deep evolutionary roots. For most of human history, women faced greater biological investment and risk in reproduction, including pregnancy and raising children, which required significant resources and protection. As a result, they evolved to prioritize partners who could offer stability, resources, and safety for them and their offspring.

Because a woman’s reproductive window is limited—fertility declines significantly after the mid-30s—there’s a stronger sense of urgency to choose wisely. Men, on the other hand, typically remain fertile much longer, so their evolutionary pressures to secure a partner have been less time-sensitive, allowing them to focus more on youth and fertility in a mate.

It is just not just about physical appearance; women are often assessing a broader range of qualities that align with their evolutionary programming—such as ambition, emotional intelligence, or stability.

View attachment 13810

I get the idea that a woman needs to choose wisely before her fertility runs out.

Using that logic, however, a woman who's past childbearing age no longer needs to choose wisely (which could work in my benefit, as I prefer a woman past childbearing age anyway)

Just wait for it, he is reading the red pill so his villain arc is just starting Hopefully by the end of the book he will start working out so he can get a Megyn Kelly look alike lol

But I agree with you with the bolded part; that comment alone should have been enough to send him to the showers.

Megyn Kelly is hot.

 

[BPH]

Megyn Kelly is hot.

Look what this idiot focuses on...

Please @Clockwerk50 and others, stop giving him stuff to reply to.

He's an idiot...whom people have told is an idiot...who is unwilling to stop being an idiot...because this idiot wants to find women who still like him as an idiot...since it's too hard for him to stop being an idiot.