AFC's would rather be "right" than happy?

[CasanovaFrankenstein]

I remember thumbing through a book at a bookstore years ago, I think it was called "How to succeed with women" or something similar. I don't remember the exact name but I've seen it recommended on this site or on sosuave.com. Anyway, I remember reading some things that really struck a chord with me, that had to do with AFC's even though they didn't use that terminology.

The main thing was it talked about when guys say "I shouldn't have to do ____ to get a woman, she should take me just as I am." If I remember right there were several instances where they talked about this attitude. "I shouldn't have to change how I dress, I shouldn't have to get in shape etc." The authors used the argument that you dress up for a job interview, you don't just go into the interview dressed however you want and expect them to hire you.

But I remember the authors saying that attitudes like the ones I listed, and not being willing to change those attitudes, show that these guys would rather be "right" (at least in their own minds) than be happy (get what they claim to want - success with women). And choosing being "right" over being happy they say, shows these guys' immaturity.

Years later this still describes me, and I'm sure it comes in my case at least, mainly from not being exposed to different viewpoints, different ways of looking at life, because I isolate myself so much socially. And I don't mean just being exposed to different viewpoints in books.

But my main question is: those who have been around this site a lot longer than I have, or have been living the DJ way a while, have you seen a lot of this "rather be right than happy" attitude? Either in yourself (past or present) or in other AFC's?

 

[SharinganUser]

yeah, the Ironic thing is that those afc's are usually wrong and unhappy.

 

[DonGorgon]

yeah, the Ironic thing is that those afc's are usually wrong and unhappy.

Most men are wrong and unhappy... afc or not...LOL

 

[Technical1]

AFCs guard their belief system tightly. Its not all that different from any other case of groupthink.

 

[SharinganUser]

Jiraiya: Getting dumped always makes a man stronger.
And if he hasn't experienced it enough to be able to laugh and joke about it, or at least use it as material,
he can't fulfill his duties as a man.
SFX: Swip
Book: Come Come Paradise

Tsunade: So it's the MAN'S responsibility to be strong, eh?

Jiraiya: Pretty much. But then again, men aren't meant to pursue happiness.

 

[DonGorgon]

Jiraiya: Getting dumped always makes a man stronger.
And if he hasn't experienced it enough to be able to laugh and joke about it, or at least use it as material,
he can't fulfill his duties as a man.
SFX: Swip
Book: Come Come Paradise

Tsunade: So it's the MAN'S responsibility to be strong, eh?

Jiraiya: Pretty much. But then again, men aren't meant to pursue happiness.

No it does not make him stronger ... it makes him less prone to love as hard as he did before, as a way to protect him self from that pain.

 

[SharinganUser]

No it does not make him stronger ... it makes him less prone to love as hard as he did before, as a way to protect him self from that pain.

That's your philosophy, and how you choose to interpret getting rejected/dumped.

I get rejected plenty of times and break ups were never easy, but I decided to move on, sharpen my resolve, and become stronger.

 

[canadianmetalhead]

That's your philosophy, and how you choose to interpret getting rejected/dumped.

I get rejected plenty of times and break ups were never easy, but I decided to move on, sharpen my resolve, and become stronger.

amen

 

[NHY]

The problem with AFCs is that many of them are not willing to change thier viewpoints because they feel that they are selling themselves out for the sake of getting laid. There a few reasons, most notably the hostile enviorment men, especailly those in America and the UK, live in.

I've spent a lot of time in the men's movement over the past 2 years, reading about how things are hostile for men in this world. Basically, instead of actually improving myself and trying to make myself happy, I was doing an AFC thing and doing what I thought was ' right ' and that I didn't need to change myself, it was the women of this era who have the problem, BIG MISTAKE.

Instead of being out there, doing something that would make me happy, I wasn't and was instead moaning about my situation on some message board! Its easy to see why rookies, like me ( even though I've known of this DJ stuff for over 6 years! You have to remember that it sometimes takes a long time for things to sink through. ) can get caught up in a pessimistic view of women, it leads them to become bitter and brand ALL women as evil and uncaring!

Now, I'm not saying theres not any problems with society today ( I'm not going to go into them, that would be another topic by itself! ) but the thing, the reason why some AFCs are pretty much permentment AFCs is because they have a rather pessimistic view of the world. Just because Susie and Claire rejected you when you were 12, doesn't mean ALL women are going to reject and go straight for the jocks all the bloody time!

The problem is thier state of mind, its a negative one, one where they don't think they deserve happiness. To qoute from Pook, They live to survive, not to win! Its clearer to me now than ever, Da Pook is right. Now, its easy to see why he doesn't bother with message boards anymore, all he sees is an enviorment full of negativity and bitterness! Now, who in thier right mind would WILLINGLY involve themsleves in such an enviorment! The negativty rubs off on you and as we all know, misery loves company!

I can bet most AFCs are unhappy with thier lives and live from paycheck to paycheck, afraid of taking risk or being agressive because they might get hurt of rejected, so they stay stuck in a cocaun of medoicracy and unhappiness! They forget that all of the great MEN in history were all risk takers and were hardly the most polite of people. ( Correct if I'm wrong, wouldn't Hitler be considered an AFC in today's world? That email with the 3 descriptions spring to mind here. )

So, AFCs are just men with a negative world view, bitter at it for not getting what they want from it when they should really need to look at the mirror for the answers WHY.

 

[DonGorgon]

That's your philosophy, and how you choose to interpret getting rejected/dumped.

I get rejected plenty of times and break ups were never easy, but I decided to move on, sharpen my resolve, and become stronger.

Oh sorry if i shattered your little dream logic with reality.. *it happens* The most important thing is that you think in a way that makes you you comfortable.

Each time something hurts you you get scarred, scares are cells that grow over healed wounds and reduce feeling or sensation in many cases... So you are not stronger you just feel less and dont get as close due to the scares / baggage.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I have several friends, all of whom are now trapped in "dead end" marriages, who fit the classic married AFC profile in their personalities. One commonality that I've just come to realize recently which I noticed among all of them while they were single, was a very over-confident sense of self-righteousness once they had transitioned from being the desperate, lonely AFC to having a girlfriend and finally "getting some" sex.

In their single lives all of these guys bought into the standard AFC mythology that most DJs did at one time, so of course preaching anything counter to the Nice Guy, Savior Schema, do-everything-to-identify-with-the-girl mentality was met with ridicule and condemnation, or at the very least rationalized away as 1950s caveman thinking. Most of this I'm prepared for, and now in hindsight all of these guys agree with everything I'd suggested back when they were single, however, all of them went through a self-righteous phase when they had finally scored with a much less than their standard woman.

You see, when an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in, accordance with the mindset. I forget who's signature it was, but to put it best, "AFCs are a bunch of crabs in a barrel - once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in". The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, "don't worry just be yourself" or "she's just not a quality woman because she can't see how great a guy you are."

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. "See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along." This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his DJ/PUA friends that he's "getting some" now without all the Positive Masculinity DJ claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he's settling for a woman "who'd fukk him", but this doesn't stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he's finally hit paydirt.

 

[SharinganUser]

Oh sorry if i shattered your little dream logic with reality.. *it happens* The most important thing is that you think in a way that makes you you comfortable.

Each time something hurts you you get scarred, scares are cells that grow over healed wounds and reduce feeling or sensation in many cases... So you are not stronger you just feel less and dont get as close due to the scares / baggage.

No need to appologize, you didn't shatter anything. Unlike you, I am not concerned about getting hurt. I have a couple scars both inside me and on my body, I haven't let either impede my ability to feel (both physically and emotionally).

I once asked my martial arts teacher if anyone could actually hurt him in a fist fight. He said "Yes, Of course. But the difference is that I can accept the pain and keep on fighting." Soke Hatsumi once said that even if you fall down 9 times and get up 10 times you are still far more ahead than if you never tried at all, or if you tried once and never got up.

It's the same with dating, if you date, you will get "hurt." That's just a fact of life. Real men accept that pain and move on.

For me, having a strong character means being happy, but the reverse is not nessecarily true. If I get rejected or dumped 1000 times, yeah it will suck in the short term, but I'll be better off in the long run. If you want to wrap yourself in an emotional cocoon, because some chick hurt your feelings, that's your choice.