*advice* Guys, do not waste your time being friends with girls.

[Barrister]

Women friends that consider you an orbiter are not social proof at all. If anything, they’ll c0ckblock you and sabotage any chance you have meeting new girls.

This is completely false. Her attempt to c0ckblock will automatically raise any other woman's estimation of you. Say you are on a date with a woman and a second woman you have been "friendzoned" by (or maybe you just allowed it to happen!) walks up and hugs you and sort of passively aggressively emits negative body language towards your date. You don't think that works to your advantage? Your date may ACT irritated by it -- but guaranty that this is overall a good thing for you.

 

[RangerMIke]

The friendzone is a dangerous place for a guy. If you meet a girl with the intention of having something more than just friends with her, that should be your goal. If you do not get there, do not settle for second best of "being her friend". Especially if she knows that you started talking to her to be something more than friends. Once she friendzones you, her respect for you drops completely. She does not look at you in a sexual way. Moving out of the friendzone is difficult (although not impossible) and drastic measures need to take place which most guys don´t do. In the friendzone, you will be used for attention, money, connections and protection as well. She will receive her boyfriend benefits and you won´t receive anything other than a pat on the head and a "good boy".

The so-called "friend-zone" is only a problem for men with no emotional self-control.

I have a lot of female friends, some are women I used to date. It's not a problem for me at all... it's actually pretty great.

(1) Everything starts with the chick. If she wants you then all you have to do is get on the ride. When she doesn't want you anymore, get off and give the next dude his turn. You have to be able to CONTROL your emotions... never fall for a chick that hasn't fallen for you. It really is that simple, you might think it is hard to do, but it's not... you just have to stop thinking about her and move on, it takes practice but it can be mastered. Meditation helps, serious... it really does. Eventually you will be able to just turn your feelings on and off like a switch and you are over them in a few days.

(2) Never allow yourself to be used without getting reciprocity. If a chick just wants you as a 'friend', no problem... treat her like one of the boys... need help moving furniture or anything really... call her. Don't pay for her, don't do her favors, don't hang around and be 'helpful'... If she goes along with this then GREAT, you have a friend with two X chromosomes... if not... well she was just using the LJBF speech as a way to get rid of you... do you and her a favor and walk away for good.

 

[samspade]

Good post -- the "friendzone" means nothing if you don't care. If a man is complaining about the "friendzone," he has oneitis to begin with and is already operating at a loss. If he didn't have oneitis, he would either just move on (not keep asking the woman out), or would be content to just have a loose "friendship" with the woman that gained him social proof or an occasional lay.

Exactly - like I say, women can bring plenty of value besides sex (and you won't fukk or want to fukk every one you meet). These things boil down to frame. A few years ago I decided it was impossible for me to be an orbiter - I'm the Sun. If a girl wants to orbit me, that's cool.

However I realize now I was seeing things through my filter. I'm not much of a guy's guy and friendships for me are pretty laid back, easy come easy go. Some guys are actually becoming quote-unquote girlfriends with girls.

Women friends that consider you an orbiter are not social proof at all. If anything, they’ll c0ckblock you and sabotage any chance you have meeting new girls.

That's because you're orbiting instead of letting her orbit you. Big difference.

 

[Robert28]

This is completely false. Her attempt to c0ckblock will automatically raise any other woman's estimation of you. Say you are on a date with a woman and a second woman you have been "friendzoned" by (or maybe you just allowed it to happen!) walks up and hugs you and sort of passively aggressively emits negative body language towards your date. You don't think that works to your advantage? Your date may ACT irritated by it -- but guaranty that this is overall a good thing for you.

In that scenario yes. What I meant was if you’re out with your woman friend at a bar or restaurant or a store and see a girl you like good luck getting the chance to talk to the other girl. Other women will assume y’all are together and they’ll be hesitant to talk to you and you’ll be blown off.

 

[samspade]

I agree --- and we have ALL been there. Not saying I haven't.

But isn't that what we all say here? You need to have an "abundance" mindset. If you do - you don't care about the friendzone.

I think SoSuave needs a SIDEBAR that's simply about FRAME. Any doubt or debate on any little topic like this, refer to the Frame sidebar. If you're in hers, you've got things to fix. If she's in yours, things are as they should be.

E.g., I've obviously made moves on female "friends" (whatever) and been turned down. Still friendly with them because I don't get butt hurt over rejection. Others obviously I've fukked - and we're still friendly too. The girl is always still "pinging" off me (to borrow a quote from a user here). But anytime I've dropped my frame to go into a girl's, I took a bad L, like a four or five touchdown blowout. Always learned something and improved, and that helped build my frame. But could have been avoided if I'd just stuck to what we all know here.

 

[Robert28]

The so-called "friend-zone" is only a problem for men with no emotional self-control.

I have a lot of female friends, some are women I used to date. It's not a problem for me at all... it's actually pretty great.

(1) Everything starts with the chick. If she wants you then all you have to do is get on the ride. When she doesn't want you anymore, get off and give the next dude his turn. You have to be able to CONTROL your emotions... never fall for a chick that hasn't fallen for you. It really is that simple, you might think it is hard to do, but it's not... you just have to stop thinking about her and move on, it takes practice but it can be mastered. Meditation helps, serious... it really does. Eventually you will be able to just turn your feelings on and off like a switch and you are over them in a few days.

(2) Never allow yourself to be used without getting reciprocity. If a chick just wants you as a 'friend', no problem... treat her like one of the boys... need help moving furniture or anything really... call her. Don't pay for her, don't do her favors, don't hang around and be 'helpful'... If she goes along with this then GREAT, you have a friend with two X chromosomes... if not... well she was just using the LJBF speech as a way to get ride of you... do you and her a favor and walk away for good.

How many of your women friends ever helped you move furniture?
The truth is women that gave me the LJBF speech weren’t trying to get rid of me, we’d gone on a few dates and they wanted to keep the benefits of dating me but only as a friend. They weren’t trying to get rid of me, in fact they kept texting me and insisting to hangout afterwards. Some people can turn their emotions off in an instant, women are especially good at this. Men usually can’t do this, I’ll get over someone just fine if I’m not around them or talk to them but I need to be left alone and given that space. It won’t take a few days, might take a few weeks or months but I need to completely cut them off. It’s just the way I’m wired.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Agree with @firstbornunicorn and @samspade and @Barrister on this. An abundance mindset is what you must have. @Mike32ct makes an important point too…a man cannot be sitting around playing it cool when really he is dying to be sleeping with a chick. If the girl is clueless that a man *really* wants to date her (it happens) and is hanging about trying to be a friend? Yeah. That can be an eviscerating experience. Not good.

I have many male friends. None of whom I am trying to date and more importantly none of whom are trying to date me. Under those parameters it’s just cool people hanging with cool people. This past Thursday I went out with a close guy friend to meet some girlfriends for drinks. My man was working late and my friend’s fiancé is out of the country for a couple of weeks. When I swung by his house to pick him up he was on the phone with his fiancé. I said hello to her & she knows we are a nothing burger except close friends. My boyfriend knows this too. My friend had cabin fever & wanted to get out, I had just flown back from a trip & wanted to go be social, my BF has a project deadline he’s working on, and my friends girl is visiting her parents in South America. That’s right, the fiancé is Latina. But she trusts him and she knows & trusts me & knows I am into my guy and her guy is into her. No interest between my friend & I whatsoever although he is a “Chad” type guy. Things are cool.

Under those circumstances it’s all good. The nice thing about opposite sex friends is you can help each other with perspective on your relationships and it’s just fun to have a cool compadre to run with. It’s relaxed, social, utterly no agenda.

But you cannot have interest in dating that person. Sexual interest must be either non existent or sublimated. People who have real abundance mindsets can sublimate the sexual interest and honor the friendship for its sake. If this is totally foreign to you then you either are not in an abundance place (full IDGAF) and/or you are ridiculously jealous/insecure, which, incidentally MOST people are ridiculously jealous and/or insecure. My friend thinks I’m objectively hot. I think my friend is objectively hot. But we are both really happy in our own relationships, and even when one or both of us are single? Still nothing doing. We’re pals. That’s IT.

 

[BeExcellent]

And I will help them move or give rides to/from the airport for close friends, male or female. If I am a close friend, I’m a close friend, gender aside. I don’t try and “use” my friends. That’s uncool. If they buy me a drink? Guess what? I return the favor.

 

[Robert28]

And I will help them move or give rides to/from the airport for close friends, male or female. If I am a close friend, I’m a close friend, gender aside. I don’t try and “use” my friends. That’s uncool. If they buy me a drink? Guess what? I return the favor.

You realize how rare that is right? 99% of women blatantly use their male friends, that’s the whole reason they have so many male friends in the first place, to use. Most women go around collecting male friends, it’s really weird. Usually women that act like this are 10x more insecure than the guy they’ve friendzoned, otherwise they wouldn’t need to surround themselves with so much validation all the time.

 

[BeExcellent]

You realize how rare that is right? 99% of women blatantly use their male friends, that’s the whole reason they have so many male friends in the first place, to use. Most women go around collecting male friends, it’s really weird. Usually women that act like this are 10x more insecure than the guy they’ve friendzoned, otherwise they wouldn’t need to surround themselves with so much validation all the time.

There are many people who are users. Men included. You just need to pay attention and do not reward the users with your time and effort. When you clear these people from your life you make space for better people. As was said above the act of saying no can greatly benefit you. I’ve had people from time to time hit me up for unreasonable things. I say no. Then I distance myself in the case of family, or vanish if it was a friend or acquaintance.

Some people are terrifically entitled. That’s true. Say no to those people. If they gripe about it? Call them out to their face for their arrogance & attempting to take advantage of you. You can be diplomatic or you can be acrid. I have publicly ripped someone a new ass hole for that crap. They never did that again & several people made a point to mention later that they too had been “hit up” but hadn’t said anything.

No can be quite powerful.

 

[Robert28]

There are many people who are users. Men included. You just need to pay attention and do not reward the users with your time and effort. When you clear these people from your life you make space for better people. As was said above the act of saying no can greatly benefit you. I’ve had people from time to time hit me up for unreasonable things. I say no. Then I distance myself in the case of family, or vanish if it was a friend or acquaintance.

Some people are terrifically entitled. That’s true. Say no to those people. If they gripe about it? Call them out to their face for their arrogance & attempting to take advantage of you. You can be diplomatic or you can be acrid. I have publicly ripped someone a new ass hole for that crap. They never did that again & several people made a point to mention later that they too had been “hit up” but hadn’t said anything.

No can be quite powerful.

Saying no doesn’t always work. How many guy friends have hit you up for money? Not just once or twice but like clockwork every month. You’ve said no everytime but they keep coming back. “I need to borrow $100. Oh you can’t do $100, what about $50? Well how about $30? It would really help me out!” It was like I was talking to an auctioneer. Women friends are a cancer and I will never have another one as long as I live. So yeah, saying no doesn’t always work, they’ll just keep asking and asking and asking because they hope eventually you’ll say yes.

 

[greatsnake]

The friendzone is a dangerous place for a guy. If you meet a girl with the intention of having something more than just friends with her, that should be your goal. If you do not get there, do not settle for second best of "being her friend". Especially if she knows that you started talking to her to be something more than friends. Once she friendzones you, her respect for you drops completely. She does not look at you in a sexual way. Moving out of the friendzone is difficult (although not impossible) and drastic measures need to take place which most guys don´t do. In the friendzone, you will be used for attention, money, connections and protection as well. She will receive her boyfriend benefits and you won´t receive anything other than a pat on the head and a "good boy".

Nothing wrong with having them as friends, as that same girl could be a tool to which you can meet more girls. It has happened to me.

 

[Barrister]

Saying no doesn’t always work. How many guy friends have hit you up for money? Not just once or twice but like clockwork every month. You’ve said no everytime but they keep coming back. “I need to borrow $100. Oh you can’t do $100, what about $50? Well how about $30? It would really help me out!” It was like I was talking to an auctioneer. Women friends are a cancer and I will never have another one as long as I live. So yeah, saying no doesn’t always work, they’ll just keep asking and asking and asking because they hope eventually you’ll say yes.

I have literally never been hit up for money from a chick. I think you are projecting something to these women to make them ask for money to begin with.

I do agree that I don't think women "friends" are going to be there for you the same way one of your guy friends will be -- but then again I am not sure why you would expect that in the first place. It just isn't the same.

 

[samspade]

Saying no doesn’t always work. How many guy friends have hit you up for money? Not just once or twice but like clockwork every month. You’ve said no everytime but they keep coming back. “I need to borrow $100. Oh you can’t do $100, what about $50? Well how about $30? It would really help me out!” It was like I was talking to an auctioneer. Women friends are a cancer and I will never have another one as long as I live. So yeah, saying no doesn’t always work, they’ll just keep asking and asking and asking because they hope eventually you’ll say yes.

Sounds like she didn't respect your boundaries, so hopefully you cut her out. Nobody's saying you should let people hang around who disrespect you.

Nevertheless your posts often sound really bitter, maybe your frame needs work and users are sniffing you out. I could be wrong, no offense intended.

 

[BeExcellent]

Are you kidding? I have renters that try and take advantage from time to time. I evict them. No questions asked. @Robert28 let me tell you something. No works. I had an ex BF I was dating once hit me up. For $1000. To gamble. Here is what I said without any hesitation whatsoever.

“POUND SAND. And NEVER hit me up for money again”.

And he didn’t. EVER.

That is literally exactly what I said to him. Then I left & went home without him.

You say that to those women? They aren’t going to ask you again.

There is something unique to you where they think you will cave. Be very forceful in saying no. Leave no doubt.

Being friends with women isn’t the issue.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Saying no doesn’t always work. How many guy friends have hit you up for money? Not just once or twice but like clockwork every month. You’ve said no everytime but they keep coming back. “I need to borrow $100. Oh you can’t do $100, what about $50? Well how about $30? It would really help me out!” It was like I was talking to an auctioneer. Women friends are a cancer and I will never have another one as long as I live. So yeah, saying no doesn’t always work, they’ll just keep asking and asking and asking because they hope eventually you’ll say yes.

Saying no works perfectly fine for me.

 

[Robert28]

Saying no works perfectly fine for me.

I mean it works but it doesn’t stop a user from coming at you.

 

[Robert28]

Sounds like she didn't respect your boundaries, so hopefully you cut her out. Nobody's saying you should let people hang around who disrespect you.

Nevertheless your posts often sound really bitter, maybe your frame needs work and users are sniffing you out. I could be wrong, no offense intended.

My frame does need work but only one user has sniffed me out. Well, maybe two have but she never came right out and asked for anything, she just made it a point to poor mouth around me all the time. “I’m so broke this week, I don’t make any money, I dunno how I’m gonna get to work tomorrow because I need gas and I’m broke”, that type of thing.

 

[Robert28]

Are you kidding? I have renters that try and take advantage from time to time. I evict them. No questions asked. @Robert28 let me tell you something. No works. I had an ex BF I was dating once hit me up. For $1000. To gamble. Here is what I said without any hesitation whatsoever.

“POUND SAND. And NEVER hit me up for money again”.

And he didn’t. EVER.

That is literally exactly what I said to him. Then I left & went home without him.

You say that to those women? They aren’t going to ask you again.

There is something unique to you where they think you will cave. Be very forceful in saying no. Leave no doubt.

Being friends with women isn’t the issue.

It’s usually over text when she asked, never in person. I guess I could have said “NO!!!!!” but I figured I’d try the “sorry I can’t” because you know, women love to operate in indirect communication but I guess they only understand it when they’re doing it and not when it’s being done to them.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I mean it works but it doesn’t stop a user from coming at you.

If they ask again after I said no, I simply ignore.