Advice for the Lady

[iqqi]

Great post, Pennie.

 

[penkitten]

mmm....quite hilarious that after wasting your youth away your finally wakening up,lol. try and have some fun without your many rules or god forsaken principles

to whom is this directed at?

 

[SouthernGal]

So how did the martial counseling go? So after discovery of the cheating, what are some of the things you guys did to address that before you threw in the towel and decided there are no changes that could be made? So what bothered you the most; the cheating or the fact that he was a dumba$$ because of the way he went about it? How did your children factor into the equation of your decision to separate their dad from their lives?

I need a heck of a lot more than simply - he cheated - to sympathize with you. I think many people just don't realize how serious divorce is until after-the-fact. Anyone that's seen one of those stress charts knows what's listed as the benchmark 100%. For those that haven't, it is "divorce".

I just feel there are a lot of proud women out there today which explains why a vast majority of women initiate divorces. They go with the "i'll show you" attitude, file and get the divorce, THEN want society's sympathy. Again, I need a heck of a lot more to sympathize with a divorce than simply mentioning one mistake (big or small); especially a mistake that involves a man having sex with another woman. First and foremost to blame is always the biology. Then you go from there.

Men make commitments they're biologically not geared to keep; and a few actually manage to pull it off an entire lifetime without breaking a vow. Incredible, these men. I'm talking about marriages, of course.

Az:

We lived in two different states at that time. I did not come here seeking any kind of sympathy-don't need it. I came here wondering how to approach a male about a specific issue. My kids and I are MUCH better off without dad anyway.

 

[jophil28]

Az:

My kids and I are MUCH better off without dad anyway.

There it is gentlemen -the warcry of the bitter modern divorced woman
LIsten SG, I am sure that you are a fine mother in your own way and by your own definition. You do sound like you are head and shoulders above most of your contemporaries , however it is imposible for you to be a FATHER - only a MAN can fill that role in spite of what Oprah says.

 

[Tazman]

Well, if you're as attractive as you claim then you'll eventually find a nice guy who will look beyond your current situation. You may have to lower your standards a bit to speed up this process, but it'll happen.

The more valuable the guy, the more you're going to have to step up the sexual availability. It's the same in reverse for guys, the more attractive the woman, the more we have to step our game up (not necessarily sexual, as that doesn't carry the same weight with women as it does for men).

 

[azanon]

There it is gentlemen -the warcry of the bitter modern divorced woman

I'm guessing the cheating was exactly what she needed to justify the divorce (to the courts), get child support, and walk away cleanly all at the same time with the majority of their shared assets in tow.

 

[Latinoman]

There it is gentlemen -the warcry of the bitter modern divorced woman
LIsten SG, I am sure that you are a fine mother in your own way and by your own definition. You do sound like you are head and shoulders above most of your contemporaries , however it is imposible for you to be a FATHER - only a MAN can fill that role in spite of what Oprah says.

You are 100% correct.

 

[iqqi]

My kids and I are MUCH better off without dad anyway.

Sound your own "war cries" all you want, but sometimes this is the cold hard TRUTH of the matter. None of you know SG's story, you are just projecting your own BITTER (yes, bitter, as they are not chipper, now are they) judgments and ideas onto her unique situation.

I know quite a few biological "fathers" who make their families lives miserable. I thank god or whatever we escaped my own (I have terrible THREE YEAR OLD CHILD memories of that monster), and I am currently witnessing the destruction of a family (children all grown now luckily) due solely to the father and his actions and own inner demons.

It does happen.

I don't negate the importance of a father figure or strong man in a child's life, however. I just think that if the choice had to be made of having just a single mom, or an intact family that included a man such as the two examples I just gave, trust me the kids are better without that man.

Many times they get "lucky" (or mom gets wise) and meets a good man to fill that father role. If not, I know plenty of success stories that come from single mother (and sometimes father) homes.

 

[jophil28]

Sound your own "war cries" all you want, but sometimes this is the cold hard TRUTH of the matter. None of you know SG's story, you are just projecting your own BITTER (yes, bitter, as they are not chipper, now are they) judgments and ideas onto her unique situation.

I know quite a few biological "fathers" who make their families lives miserable. I thank god or whatever we escaped my own (I have terrible THREE YEAR OLD CHILD memories of that monster), and I am currently witnessing the destruction of a family (children all grown now luckily) due solely to the father and his actions and own inner demons.

It does happen.

I don't negate the importance of a father figure or strong man in a child's life, however. I just think that if the choice had to be made of having just a single mom, or an intact family that included a man such as the two examples I just gave, trust me the kids are better without that man.

Many times they get "lucky" (or mom gets wise) and meets a good man to fill that father role. If not, I know plenty of success stories that come from single mother (and sometimes father) homes.

Once again you have made the foolish mistake of turning this discussion(and several others on this board) into some kind of promotion of the "all mothers are godly saviors " mindset.

Furthermore, we are NOT interested in YOUR version of your own background ICKY . As cruel as this sounds, this is NOT about you. THis thread is about SG's situation.
At least she is beginning to LISTEN to our forthright opinions , Unfortunately YOU seem incapable of grasping any male perspective -especially one which dares to challenge or criticise some precious femme who lives her life convinced of her own infallibility and self righteosnes.

You truly belong over at Love Shack with "them" and Uncle Tony.

 

[iqqi]

Once again you have made the foolish mistake of turning this discussion(and several others on this board) into some kind of promotion of the "all mothers are godly saviors " mindset.

Actually I never said anything like that. That would be you who has once again twisted what I said and put words in my mouth. Luckily this is the net, and my words remain posted above yours.

I specifically stated that some fathers ruin families, and are better off not involved in their families lives.

I never said all mothers are godly saviors.

All of your direct insults to me aside (which I thought were not permitted here at SS...), it is interesting you'd get that from what I actually said. Belies your own issues.

 

[Latinoman]

Once again...raising children without a strong male figure in their lives is the equivalent of planting a tree away from sun light.

 

[iqqi]

Once again...raising children without a strong male figure in their lives is the equivalent of planting a tree away from sun light.

No, it isn't.

Raising a child in a family with one severely abusive parent is like hacking at a baby tree with an ax, though.

 

[jophil28]

Once again...raising children without a strong male figure in their lives is the equivalent of planting a tree away from sun light.

Children SUFFER in single mother environments.
There is no advantage to a child by being deprived of it's father .
Boys , in particular, need their Dad to be their significant parent- not their mother. Mothers can NEVER be Fathers.

Secondly - it is nauseating to hear woman justify their abandonment of a marriage to "protect the children" ..protect against what ?
Apparently, that same man whom she fell in love with, married and vowed to be with "till death do you part " ....the same man whom she slept with numerous times and mothered several children. The same man who cherished her enough to agree to marry her , pay her bills, sign all manner of legal documents and plan a future with. The same man who smiled and tolerated her mother and perhaps her interfering sisters or girlfriends . The same man who compromised his own recreation in the interests of "give and take ".

THis is the same man who is now "the monster" against whom she shields her children.
THis is precisely the "self righteous savior mentality" that I encounter frequently in divorced women ..and it is a scam.
Most women have NO clue how to be women in adult relationships,let alone an enduring marriage with children.
When problems start and her meager conflict resolution skills prove ineffective, she heads for a lawyer (70% of divorces are initiated by women )
HOwever, because she still needs to face her family, friends and work colleagues she takes the high ground by claiming to be a victim and portraying herself as the "rescuer' of her children from "that Man"
The same man in the wedding photo .. The SAME man.

IT would be laughable if it were not so tragic.

 

[##17]

An abusive father versus no father? I'd go with no father. However, it falls on a woman to screen for a man's character, BEFORE she has kids with him!

I'll give credit to SGal for making the best in a tough situation, and I wish her luck in making a happy new life for herself and her kids. But some of you women (Rosemary, iqqi) and a few feminized men are making her out to be a heroine/matyr. I can't agree with that. It looks like she put HERSELF first by not screening properly when she married her ex-husband and had kids with him.

 

[iqqi]

Children SUFFER in single mother environments.
There is no advantage to a child by being deprived of it's father .
Boys , in particular, need their Dad to be their significant parent- not their mother. Mothers can NEVER be Fathers.

Secondly - it is nauseating to hear woman justify their abandonment of a marriage to "protect the children" ..protect against what ?
Apparently, that same man whom she fell in love with, married and vowed to be with "till death do you part " ....the same man whom she slept with numerous times and mothered several children. The same man who cherished her enough to agree to marry her , pay her bills, sign all manner of legal documents and plan a future with. The same man who smiled and tolerated her mother and perhaps her interfering sisters or girlfriends . The same man who compromised his own recreation in the interests of "give and take ".

THis is the same man who is now "the monster" against whom she shields her children.
THis is precisely the "self righteous savior mentality" that I encounter frequently in divorced women ..and it is a scam.
Most women have NO clue how to be women in adult relationships,let alone an enduring marriage with children.
When problems start and her meager conflict resolution skills prove ineffective, she heads for a lawyer (70% of divorces are initiated by women )
HOwever, because she still needs to face her family, friends and work colleagues she takes the high ground by claiming to be a victim and portraying herself as the "rescuer' of her children from "that Man"
The same man in the wedding photo .. The SAME man.

IT would be laughable if it were not so tragic.

What's laughable is your "same man" argument.

If that was the case, all AFC's should take responsibility and stick with their evil b!tch women that they choose to commit to. If that was the case, "Next" would not be such a quick option. Not in a committed relationship, not in a marriage.

The fact is, people put on facades. Some last a few weeks, a few months, some a few years. Some people do not show their true colors until that final commitment is made. I thought the one thing people on this forum hung on to was just how a woman can change once you put a ring on her finger. Well guess what, it goes both ways.

Marriage can be the big facade dissolver. That's when people let themselves go in terms of weight and looks upkeep, that's when they stop being so sexual with their partners, that's when certain wonderful actors of a person let their real face show. And some wonderful, wooing people are really monsters.

Notice I say people, and not men, or women. It GOES BOTH WAYS.

There are quite a few posters on this forum who come from single parent families. I am surprised (not) that they aren't speaking up about just how wonderful their "abandoned" parent is/was. And the effects it had on them once they were out of their lives.

Fact is, people make mistakes in choosing their partners. If this weren't the case, there wouldn't be a sosuave discussion board. Everyone here is "guilty" of choosing the wrong person to love at one time or another. Some people even married the wrong person (GASP!) So don't sit here and judge someone for making a mistake, then doing what they had to do to correct it.

You said: she takes the high ground by claiming to be a victim and portraying herself as the "rescuer' of her children from "that Man"
The same man in the wedding photo .. The SAME man.

All I know, I wish this woman would have left a certain [URL="http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Dungeon-father39s--crime-has.4028972.jp"]father aka "same man" in her wedding photos[/URL].

Yes, the same man who is a father, can be a monster.

Same with women. Goes both ways.

But some of you women (Rosemary, iqqi) and a few feminized men are making her out to be a heroine/matyr.

I have not made SG out to be anything.

I am going against the extreme argument that she is some bitter evil woman for leaving an abusive relationship, one of which we know nothing about. The argument is that a child needs their father no matter what. Most people know that is not the case.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Children SUFFER in single mother environments.
There is no advantage to a child by being deprived of it's father .
Boys , in particular, need their Dad to be their significant parent- not their mother. Mothers can NEVER be Fathers.

Secondly - it is nauseating to hear woman justify their abandonment of a marriage to "protect the children" ..protect against what ?
Apparently, that same man whom she fell in love with, married and vowed to be with "till death do you part " ....the same man whom she slept with numerous times and mothered several children. The same man who cherished her enough to agree to marry her , pay her bills, sign all manner of legal documents and plan a future with. The same man who smiled and tolerated her mother and perhaps her interfering sisters or girlfriends . The same man who compromised his own recreation in the interests of "give and take ".

THis is the same man who is now "the monster" against whom she shields her children.
THis is precisely the "self righteous savior mentality" that I encounter frequently in divorced women ..and it is a scam.
Most women have NO clue how to be women in adult relationships,let alone an enduring marriage with children.
When problems start and her meager conflict resolution skills prove ineffective, she heads for a lawyer (70% of divorces are initiated by women )
HOwever, because she still needs to face her family, friends and work colleagues she takes the high ground by claiming to be a victim and portraying herself as the "rescuer' of her children from "that Man"
The same man in the wedding photo .. The SAME man.

IT would be laughable if it were not so tragic.

Wow, Jophil....great post!!!

Reminds me of the saying... a man marries a woman hoping she will not change, and and a woman marries a man hoping he will.

You are right same man, new victimhood. Play the part.

 

[##17]

Children SUFFER in single mother environments.
There is no advantage to a child by being deprived of it's father .
Boys , in particular, need their Dad to be their significant parent- not their mother. Mothers can NEVER be Fathers.

Secondly - it is nauseating to hear woman justify their abandonment of a marriage to "protect the children" ..protect against what ?
Apparently, that same man whom she fell in love with, married and vowed to be with "till death do you part " ....the same man whom she slept with numerous times and mothered several children. The same man who cherished her enough to agree to marry her , pay her bills, sign all manner of legal documents and plan a future with. The same man who smiled and tolerated her mother and perhaps her interfering sisters or girlfriends . The same man who compromised his own recreation in the interests of "give and take ".

THis is the same man who is now "the monster" against whom she shields her children.
THis is precisely the "self righteous savior mentality" that I encounter frequently in divorced women ..and it is a scam.
Most women have NO clue how to be women in adult relationships,let alone an enduring marriage with children.
When problems start and her meager conflict resolution skills prove ineffective, she heads for a lawyer (70% of divorces are initiated by women )
HOwever, because she still needs to face her family, friends and work colleagues she takes the high ground by claiming to be a victim and portraying herself as the "rescuer' of her children from "that Man"
The same man in the wedding photo .. The SAME man.

IT would be laughable if it were not so tragic.

That's a good point. I said in my previous post that women were SELFISH in marrying the wrong guy in the first place. But to so many women, it is 'all their ex-husband's fault' that it is hard to tell whether the guy was even really as wrong as the women say...

 

[Mr.Positive]

The fact is, people put on facades. Some last a few weeks, a few months, some a few years. Some people do not show their true colors until that final commitment is made.

Oh really. So, the "true colors" only come out when women realize that they have had enough?

A guy could be the same a$$hole the whole time, yet "all of a sudden" his true colors come out? at the exact time she divorces him for better options?

Why, how convenient that is.

 

[##17]

Fact is, people make mistakes in choosing their partners. If this weren't the case, there wouldn't be a sosuave discussion board. Everyone here is "guilty" of choosing the wrong person to love at one time or another. Some people even married the wrong person (GASP!) So don't sit here and judge someone for making a mistake, then doing what they had to do to correct it.

I'm not sure you can always call marrying the wrong person just 'a mistake'. I will say it again: If the signs were there that your partner is abusive, low character, ect, and you marry that person and have kids with them anyway, it isn't 'just as mistake' so much as it's pure SELFISHNESS on your part. I mean, on some level you knew that what you were doing was bad for your unborn kids, but you're doing it anyway. See, now the kids have to grow up with at least one parent who is not up for the job.

 

[##17]

Duplicate post