About 95% of this community are hopelss AFC's!

[Gonzalo]

Good points,
I´ve never been a fan of the endless "lets fix the forum" essays, but about some of the things you said on tactics and techniques...

It is easy to say to a newbie "think like this", but why should his brain want to accept a new way of thinking? Cause some guy on the internet says so? Just like in music, martial arts, or anything that requires you to change the way you are so that you enter a state of "doing without thinking", it needs physical practice. I think the goal of most guys here is bing confident, cool, and not afraid of being who they are, which naturally will lead them to women.

To achieve this "automatic" response you actually need to do things mechanically at first, so that the info will stay in your head and it comes later naturally. Look at aikido or karate newbies, most look like robots, practicing every day the same endless drills, but look at black belts and when you see the elegance you see where it all went. Same with music, get a newbie kid to play a passage, he will do it with no grace, cause he´s self concious about it, but have him do it for years and it becomes second nature, it will be his language. All this rant goes to say that people need to go and try things (agreeing with what you stated), but they actually need "tricks and techniques" -- not so they can go and do a trick on a girl and hypnotize her into bed, but so these tricks (appearing confident through CF or whatever) become second nature and they find themselves confident soon enough. That´s why I think bootcamp is a great idea for newbies, cause it gets them in the street trying things out.

To all the people saying the forum blows nowadays, you probably are above advice, not kidding, you are the people who grew up with the forum. Thats why you dont want to listen to a newbie say How do I get X girl? You dont need advice, if you were waiting for another God-sent Pook to give you literary entertainment (cause thats all you can get at the stage youre at) thats fine. Maybe you guys should be posting more of the type of stuff that makes the bilbe in the Tips section, helping nebies with concepts, rather than helping X guy get Y girl.

G

 

[Krassus]

Originally posted by Craig Reeves
You bring up an excellent point, Krassus. But the problem is, is that these newbies are being taught CONFLICTING tactics and ideas, and being told that they have to memorize tactics to a TEE to be able to attract women, and if they don't memorize the techniques, execute them PERFECTLY, and look like Brad Pitt, then they will NOT be successful. These ideas are not all usually taught at once, but with more and more "techsters", and Mystery_Womans coming along, these ideas will ALL be jumbled up in a newbie's head, ENHANCING his insecurity. This makes newbies even SCARDER to go out and work on their game! That makes me sick to my stomach, and I've done all I could to change things, but folks are too damned ignorant and stuck in their ways.

I know exactly what you mean, and i've been repeating it myself like a broken fvcking record! There are countless people here who focus on the strategies and techniques and forget all about the mindset, which should have been their main objective to begin with! In fact, the only two people i can think of that consistently stress developing the mindset and going out there and acting, as opposed to staying in and reading, are Pook and Fingz. In fact, this board is about 5% original material - the rest are questions that have been asked before, advice that has been given before and so forth. I've grown so tired of this mindless repetition of things everyone already knows, that i started reading fastseduction.com, which i have to say is refreshing. For the first time in months, i'm actually reading new material on seduction!

 

[Craig Reeves]

Gonzalo, you bring up some phenomenal points, man.

Let's take a look...

It is easy to say to a newbie "think like this", but why should his brain want to accept a new way of thinking? Cause some guy on the internet says so? Just like in music, martial arts, or anything that requires you to change the way you are so that you enter a state of "doing without thinking", it needs physical practice. I think the goal of most guys here is bing confident, cool, and not afraid of being who they are, which naturally will lead them to women.

To achieve this "automatic" response you actually need to do things mechanically at first, so that the info will stay in your head and it comes later naturally.

That's right. I don't have a problem with usng "techniques" and "tactics" to LEARN. My issue is doing it this way to IMPRESS a woman. Beginners need to be taught NOT to try to impress a woman, and that the reason they are learning these materials is so that they can enjoy their interactions with women more and feel better about themselves. They should NOT be taught that their goal is to make women like them more.

Beginners should be taught the REASON behind everything that they learn. With most of my students, I actually do tell them what to say to her, and what to do. I DO NOT do this to teach him how to get a girl......I do this so that he will get a better UNDERSTANDING of how this all works. I tell him WHY stuff like C+F and kino work, and why what he was doing wouldn't work in a way that makes sense to him.

This is the only way that it will stick and REPROGRAM their behavior and thinking. If I just told him: "Do this, and do that" without telling him WHY he should "Do this, and do that", he'll forget and go back to his AFC behavior, eventually. I'm just sick of aspiring DJ's being taught this stuff to impress a girl.

The reason why beginners do the wrong things, is because those wrong things MAKE SENSE to them. If they do not know the CORRECT REASONING behind what they learn, and they do not develop a deep understanding for WHY these reasons are correct, they will get frusterated and fail.

 

[Slickster]

Good post

The point you bring up at the end is very interesting.

If someone were a true DJ why would he be here? Its so true.

I consider myself to be a real DJ. Except for a case of oneitis I was probably a DJ way before I ever came here. The only reason I come here anymore is because I'm bored on my lunch break.

I enjoy helping guys who don't have a clue. Guys who seem genuine and are looking for help. However the task is monumental. There are too many AFC's and most of the real DJ's around here have left a long time ago. And as said earlier a real DJ has better things to do than hang around here.

Even worse when someone gives good advice there is always some idiot without a clue flaming that great advice.

I think the biggest thing holding guys back is that they are trying too hard and as Craig Reeves said the women KNOW it. A real DJ doesn't give a damn about women.

The Forum is growing but at the same time its dying.

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by Craig Reeves
The PROBLEM is,.................

The problem is you. Snotty nosed individuals who really look at this site as the key to all of the questions we've always had about phukkyn women, and then try to critique it...

Anyone who would stand steadfast and publicly critique a website that is run by individuals who are themselves trying to figure out women, is an damn iddyott.

What the phukk are you talking about?? Bottomline....If you are on this site and you post, then you already have a problem. The problem being, attaining the women you have always felt you deserve. Hence, you are frustrated and an AFC.

The problem is in the analysis. Stop making this site anything more than it is. It is simply a guide, a place where guys come together to fukkyn exchange ideas. That's all

So in essence if an individual wants to post and it offends you or seems like fukkyn crap, then move the fukk on. This site was here before you came, and will be here after you phukkyn leave. And in the process it has changed a lot of lives for the better.

95% my aZZ. Dude get a fukkyn clue we are all AFC's. The moment you signed up, you sealed your AFC envelope. And even if you fail to realize this, because perchance you hangout with all the hott women(which I seriously doubt) who the fukk cares we'll get there. Mind you this site is only a few years old, and as the old saying goes 'Rome wasn't built in a fukkyn day'. Now if this site was 50 years old and we saw no progress, then I would understand your fuykkyn rant.

Oh and by the way, I have said this before and I will say it again: A DJ isn't a phukkyn clone. So stop trying to forcefeed us your crappy definition of what you think a DJ is..

The Edge ' Some have it, and some don't '

 

[Player_Supreme]

yep some things and people never change or grow up...

maturity...some have it some don't!

 

[MVPlaya]

BUMP

Originally posted by Craig Reeves
The PROBLEM is, however, is that a lot of you guys in this community use the materials that you are taught FOR THE WRONG REASONS. And what's even worse, you TEACH OTHER GUYS to use these materials for these wrong reasons too.

A lot of y'all use the material that you have been taught for the SAME DAMN REASONS that an AFC would buy a woman flowers - to IMPRESS her, and make her APPROVE of him.

Basically, this is 95% of the community, and I hate to say it, but it's true.

They take these materials, learn them, and then go out and "spit their new game" as if what they learned here were MAGIC WORDS to magically impress a woman, make her think romantic thoughts about you, and get her in bed - MOST OF YOU GUYS ON HERE ARE CLUELESS, and that's period, end of story.

 

[Craig Reeves]

Sorry for bringing this all the way back to the top, but...

The problem is you. Snotty nosed individuals who really look at this site as the key to all of the questions we've always had about phukkyn women, and then try to critique it...

I've never seen this site as some definitive sorce of information to "phukk women". I honestly think that this site gives predominately BAD advice.

Anyone who would stand steadfast and publicly critique a website that is run by individuals who are themselves trying to figure out women, is an damn iddyott.

That's not true. Most of the people on this site do not "try to figure out women", they think they already have women figured out! How can people "try to figure out women" when they're not open to new ideas!? They're so stuck in their ways, and it's driving me crazy!

Bottomline....If you are on this site and you post, then you already have a problem. The problem being, attaining the women you have always felt you deserve. Hence, you are frustrated and an AFC.

I don't come to this site to get help. I come to this site to OFFER MY HELP AND ADVICE. I said that already.

The problem is in the analysis. Stop making this site anything more than it is. It is simply a guide, a place where guys come together to fukkyn exchange ideas. That's all.

Exactly, EXCHANGE ideas. The problem is that ideas CAN'T be exchanged. Any idea that somebody else doesn't agree with gets FLAMED.

So in essence if an individual wants to post and it offends you or seems like fukkyn crap, then move the fukk on. This site was here before you came, and will be here after you phukkyn leave. And in the process it has changed a lot of lives for the better.

You're a good example of what I'm talking about. I stated MY OPINION, and MY idea (that most of the community are AFC's), and it got SHOT DOWN.....just like ALL the ideas that people don't happen to agree with over here. If you didn't agree with my post....you could have INTELLEGENTLY pointed out the things you didn't agree with, instead of trying tell me off.

95% my aZZ. Dude get a fukkyn clue we are all AFC's. The moment you signed up, you sealed your AFC envelope. And even if you fail to realize this, because perchance you hangout with all the hott women(which I seriously doubt) who the fukk cares we'll get there.

Not everyone who signs up here is here for the same reason. I had already had this part of my life handled BEFORE I signed up. I came here to CONTRIBUTE to this site, and help people out. In fact, I found this site in a search for a community that I can share my ideas with. I only asked ONE question on this site in the entire time that I have been here....and that was only just to get everybody else's opinion on the matter - I had really already made my decision.

Mind you this site is only a few years old, and as the old saying goes 'Rome wasn't built in a fukkyn day'. Now if this site was 50 years old and we saw no progress, then I would understand your fuykkyn rant.

I didn't say that this site wasn't doing it's job, I said that this site is doing it's job poorly. I explicitly explained WHY I felt this way in great detail....but of course.....instead of disagreeing with me intellegently, you fly off the handle.

Oh and by the way, I have said this before and I will say it again: A DJ isn't a phukkyn clone. So stop trying to forcefeed us your crappy definition of what you think a DJ is..

I gave you what my opinion of a DJ was.....I didn't say that that was the only way that one could be a DJ.

 

[StimulI]

I'm 95% disapointed I actually read through this thread...If people think the game is ****ed up then start sayin' s**t to people who are postin' bammer threads...don't whine about it, cause THAT's AFC.

Peace

 

[DarkCityNight]

Maybe a better topic for this post would have been "How to Use SoSuave Correctly"

I mean if 5% are doing it right, then it's possible for 6%, or 7%, etc. or even 100% to become DJ's (under perfect conditions).

I always thought that the DJ Bible was to be applied to actual experience. Is SoSuave supposed to be something more than this?

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by Gonzalo
You dont need advice, if you were waiting for another God-sent Pook to give you literary entertainment (cause thats all you can get at the stage youre at) thats fine. Maybe you guys should be posting more of the type of stuff that makes the bilbe in the Tips section, helping nebies with concepts, rather than helping X guy get Y girl.

put that on repeat!

wait, wait, here is the remix!

just like anything in life, it is what you make it. quit whining and give us something like what you had in mind. if you feel like this forum is dying, then be a hero. what, you can criticise, but the only posts of length you can come up with is tired rehashed "this forum ain't what is was" posts?

if it ain't good to you, then peace the "phukk" out. right, Edge?

Originally posted by the Edge
This site was here before you came, and will be here after you phukkyn leave.

 

[MVPlaya]

Shi'ite, some of you people get too embroiled in this debate. I think Craig said a lot of useless, shyt in this post, I think, maybe, 95% of it was useless. But he was dead on the mark that some guys here are AFCs with DJ tricks up their sleeves. We can never completely change that, hell, I bet Fingers and Pook have it to some degree, but not anywhere the degree some here do.

Once again, this paragraph makes it worth the read:

Originally posted by Craig Reeves
The PROBLEM is, however, is that a lot of you guys in this community use the materials that you are taught FOR THE WRONG REASONS. And what's even worse, you TEACH OTHER GUYS to use these materials for these wrong reasons too.

A lot of y'all use the material that you have been taught for the SAME DAMN REASONS that an AFC would buy a woman flowers - to IMPRESS her, and make her APPROVE of him.

Basically, this is 95% of the community, and I hate to say it, but it's true.

They take these materials, learn them, and then go out and "spit their new game" as if what they learned here were MAGIC WORDS to magically impress a woman, make her think romantic thoughts about you, and get her in bed.

 

[ShizamDaMan]

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!!!! I am in LOVE with this thread!

Recently, I've noticed some of your points in my own life. As I started to be a DJ, I was only in it for the women. But as I began to improve upon myself, the goal no longer was to only become good with women. The goal was to become a better person, one that I would be proud to be for the rest of my life.

I concentrated more on posts about improving upon your personality and mindset, rather than tips and techniques to use with women. As I began to like myself more and more, I put less importance on becoming better with women. I wanted to make it so I liked myself before I got other women to like myself.

Now, I am a much better person than I used to be. While normally someone would think not concentrating on getting girls would make me less successful, the exact opposite is true. I am more successful with women than I have ever been. My cell phone is filled with phone numbers from different girls, I talk to a few dozen every day at school, even more when I get off. Conversing with the opposite sex has never been easier.

It's not "lines" or "techniques" or "strategies" that have been the source of my success. I don't have to remember or practice anything, because I have already gotten to a point where I like myself enough that I don't care what happens when I deal with women. Stangely enough, girls sense this and LIKE IT!

Sure, in the beginning I had to "fake it" to "make it." The problem is that most people never transition from the stage of "faking it" to "making it." They just keep faking and faking, they never incorporate the positive aspects into their lifestyle. Instead of thinking on their own, they keep asking for someone to guide them every step of the way.

STOP WITH THE CRAP! Go out and make your own mistakes! We can't hold your hand forever!

I agree with you Craig, there is really not much more I can pull from this site. I've realized that to get more experience, I actually have to go out and meet even more women and get even more dates. No amount of reading and studying can top a night out on the town with a female in terms of learning.

Bottom line, if you don't like yourself how can you expect anyone else to?

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

The true experienced Dj's who have meaningful insight are leaving or returning less frequently. Sad to say, the effeminate
so-called DJ's are remaining and giving weak counsel, making greater AFC's!

It's up to the newbies to decide which counsel is worthy! I hope they can distinguish between the worthy and unworthy.

 

[Abnigh9]

I have to agree with Craig Reeves here, majority of us won't be a true DJ here.

Granted, the great old-timers (Pook, Casanova, Page, etcera) who were here are DJs who can really go out and score chicks and do not need social proof the way 95% of the AFC need. They're the gentlemen that stands out of all other gentlemen.

I'll admit it, even though I have been on this place for nearly four or five years (you'd be very surprise to know who I am... very surprise; I used to be... pst pst, the name starts with the seventh letter ) and I am not even a true DJ as I aspire to be.
I offer no advice other than those on financial. I learned one thing (out of a million things) as a DJ, that DJ is also genetic and many various factors but majorly genetic. No, it's not "yeah what code of the DNA?"

It's the alphaness in us, the will, drive, and desire but that's all philosophy bs. We're motivated tonight, tomorrow when we wake up, the "fire" is gone.
It's our environment. When I was younger it's much harder to be what you want to be let alone a smooth DJ.
It's our parents. The way they take care of us.
It's how we were raised. They say "don't treat women that way, they're soft creatures/they need hugging/give flowers on first date."
It's our parent's influence. Were they actively always finding new ways out? Or were they with the poor mindset? "Oh that's stupid, oh that's impossible, oh that's pathetic, go ahead try it, and if you fail, don't come back to me, oh that's this and that."
It's our ability to go out. Some of us REALLY can't do it. Some of us can't manage time. Some of us don't feel like it. With all that motivation, they're still not motivated regardless.
It's our age and looks. The older you get, the more you want to change into a rather philosophical life than an active life that you once lead. When I was younger, I lead an extremely dangerous life. All the fights and violence and ****. It's enough, I settled and live what I want to live as.
It's our horniness. Some people are so horny their desperation controls them thus taking them longer to master the art of DJing.

There's more, but I'm just stating, it's not as easy as it looks. Nothing is. DJ is harder than REI. People go "oh DJ is pathetic" or whatever, DJ is the way of life. REI is what you do for a while. Same with martial art. I am an amateur fighter who fight on occasion for several bouts. I find nice deals and get a win-win situation.

Now DJing? Phew.

So when one can't be a DJ, nobody blames them. But when they lie to themselves, it's pretty harsh on their personality. Then again, 95% aren't DJ in reality.

 

[Crotch Sniffer]

Originally posted by Abnigh9
the great old-timers (Pook, Casanova, Page, etcera) who were here are DJs who can really go out and score chicks and do not need social proof the way 95% of the AFC need. They're the gentlemen that stands out of all other gentlemen.

Completely FALSE!!! YOu have no idea what the hell you are talking about, do you? Please explain to me how social proof is AFC???

Originally posted by Abnigh9
I'll admit it, even though I have been on this place for nearly four or five years.

DJ is also genetic and many various factors but majorly genetic. No, it's not "yeah what code of the DNA?"[/b][/quote]

You should be ashamed of yourself for another foolish comment. The whole premise of DJ is to reach past your limits and become the man you want to be, whether that is a romance guy or a male slut or a fullblown pimp is totally up to you. Its what YOU want.

Originally posted by Abnigh9
I'll admit it, even though I have been on this place for nearly four or five years.

It sincerely makes me sad that in all this time you still have been here, you still have absolutely no clue.

 

[TheRisingSon]

First, I love posts like these. Oh, not the subject matter per say. It's all been covered before. I love the whole "This is my last post!" thing followed by several more posts.

Craig, I, and many others here agree with your basic premise. It is more of a mindset than lines. However, just because people don't agree with you, doesn't make this board useless. It is all a cycle. People come here for a reason; a woman dumped them, they can't get a date, whatever. They follow the tips and eventually find success. After a while, they realize that it isn't the tricks, it is them that gets them what they want. Then, alas, "This site sucks!" You are too worried about people agreeing with you. Speak your mind, and ignore the responses.

Edge, right on! EVERYONE here is an AFC. Otherwise, why be here? They (including me, you, and Craig) have an unmet need. They (see above) seek that here. Even Pook and Fingerz (and PS) are seeking some sort of aproval and limited fame. Else, why waste the time? It is fairly evident (although I agree with him), that Craig suffers from the affliction known as "If I can't be a famous poster here that everyone likes and listens to, then this place sucks!" Very AFC.

I Have Risen

 

[Abnigh9]

Originally posted by Crotch Sniffer
Completely FALSE!!! YOu have no idea what the hell you are talking about, do you? Please explain to me how social proof is AFC???

I never said it's AFC to have social proof. I only said AFC is better off with social proof, otherwise it's a little harder. True DJ do not need social proof the way AFC need it. Not social proof=AFC.
If I don't understand what I'm talking about, then how am I able to express it? Perhaps it's you who have trouble comprehending in reading.

You should be ashamed of yourself for another foolish comment. The whole premise of DJ is to reach past your limits and become the man you want to be, whether that is a romance guy or a male slut or a fullblown pimp is totally up to you. Its what YOU want.

Then again, reality always set in. You can be what you want to be, but to reach past your limit you have to be near your limit or "around" your limit in order to surpass it. It's almost impossible to jump from a regular AFC who has nothing to a DJ who has everything. The ability accumulate, not jump.

It sincerely makes me sad that in all this time you still have been here, you still have absolutely no clue.

Nope, some have it harder. Not everyone starts with the same foot.

You're misunderstanding everything I said here.

 

[Ice Cold]

Blah blah blah

When you become a DJ your heart will change... Techniques don't work, you're an AFC who's trying to ....

Who are YOU to tell us this man?

It's the whole point of this place. Guys come here and post when they're AFC and stop posting when they're leaving, cause they've got their romantic stuff dealt with.

Most of them just leave. Some of them try to make a "last post" with all their mediocre experiences summed up. These posts suck, cause the whole seduction business was described in much greater detail by the classics a few centuries ago.

I don't post stuff and field reports. Why? Cause they're repetitive and the methods I use are described better in books. Plus I don't wanna put them on the net. And that does about 90% of the guys who are successful with chicks.

 

[il_duce]

Any thread titled "Does she like me?" or "Should I make the move?" should be immediately deleted with a vengeance.

Very good post, btw.