A women cancels a date- should we ask her out again?

[The Grue]

Greeting everybody,

I am in a situation with a woman(Liz,29). She and I met in 2006 and flirted for a bit. However , we were both in relationships(her's was long term, about 7 years at the time).
The in mid 2008, I was breaking up and we met again.
I asked her out to dinner and she accepted...but backed out in the afternoon on the day of the date saying that she was quite ill and her BOYFRIEND was taking care of her.
I took this as a clear message that she is still attached(which took me by surprise as she had accepted a Saturday dinner date with me.)
Anyway, I politely called her out on this and forgot about her.
Later on, I got back together with my girlfriend so Liz was, more or less, forgotten.
I saw Liz again in September 2008 but was cool(yet still cordial).
Then, I saw her again, yesterday!
It was at a book exhibition and she works for a publishing house.
She was friendly and I was a bit mellower since it has been a good summer.
She asks if I have married or am engaged to which I reply that I am enjoying life without legal commitments.
Then, I reply that SHE is the one in the long-term relationship; Thus, she should be the one with news about getting married.
She says that she broke up with her BF(my guess is it probably happened about 7-9 months ago).
I was in a bit of a hurry, so I tell her I'll call and we should get together. She says that sounds fine.

Now to my query.
Liz has already canceled a date with me in the past.
She claimed to be ill but the fact that she mentioned a BF taking care of her means she shouldn't have accepted a Saturday dinner date with me in the first place!

Anyway, to my mind I don't see why she needed to have asked me questions about my marital status yesterday...could she have intentionally steered our conversation in the direction where her break-up would come up?
Should I give this woman a call now that she is free?
Is her interest level adequate for me to act in your opinions?
Or should I just seek greener pastures with new women whose slate is clean?

Thanks for reading,

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Or should I just seek greener pastures with new women whose slate is clean?

Yes.

 

[Zunder]

This is one occassion where I would make it pretty clear that you are looking for a fvck buddy only.
Who gives a sh!t if this offends her or not. Fvck trying to woo this bird.
You seriously don't want a ltr, or any sort of "r" with this woman do you?

 

[Hooligan Harry]

or you could call her up, take her out, and judge the situation after that. I dont understand the need for deep analysis here. Do you want to bang this broad? If the answer is yes, take her out. If the answer is no, dont bother.

If she flakes again, her interest level is low and you are wasting your time.

 

[The Grue]

I have been enjoying a free,independent lifestyle the last few months, and I savor meeting new women so I really am not interested in pursuing a relationship with Liz.
A Fvck buddy arrangement would be ideal...she has an open profile on F/B so I think she is probably not averse to meeting men either....
after her being in an LTR, maybe she wants just wants simple sex too...

 

[HalfAddict]

Next

 

[jophil28]

she has an open profile on F/B so I think she is probably not averse to meeting men either....
after her being in an LTR, maybe she wants just wants simple sex too...

She knows that you are interested in her because you asked her out in the past.
SHe accepted and then got cold feet and concocted some BS story about being ill and ALSO introduced her boyfriend into the picture to block you from persisting.
Now that she is single she is looking for some rebound action. Guess who she has in mind ?
Yeah, you might sign her up as a F/buddy, but more likely she is looking for a chump to leech off for free dinners and outings and who will also validate her and pump up her ego after her recent LTR breakup.

IF you persist with this woman who was considering going out with you behind her B/fs back, then use her for target practise only.
Frankly, I would not bother.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

Go find another woman and let this girl know you can get laid without her.

After this, she will want to marry you and have your babies. I did this and now the girl is saying she loves me.

Women think it's amazing when we can get laid without them.

 

[The Grue]

I agree with what you guys are saying, which is why I am in two minds about calling her up.
She clearly did disrespect me and her considering a dinner date while in a relationship does tell us much about her character.
That having been said, I have also gone on dates with other people while in a relationship....
Furthermore, she is quite attractive so I wouldn't mind fvcking her.
What I am considering is a call for drink sometime this week. Nothing too formal or expensive.My purpose will be to proceed to the bedroom as quickly as I can. No courting, no dinners....

 

[jophil28]

Too late, you are fighting an uphill battle and it will appear desperate. Do NOT throw away your dignity.

Yep.

Stainless Steel Rule #1 of Jophil - "Never exchange self respect or discard your values for poon."

 

[The Asian Lover]

This is one occassion where I would make it pretty clear that you are looking for a fvck buddy only.
Who gives a sh!t if this offends her or not. Fvck trying to woo this bird.
You seriously don't want a ltr, or any sort of "r" with this woman do you?

This is some good advice.

Call her up at 2am and tell her to come over to your place. If she doesn't delete her number and move on.

 

[MatureDJ]

First off she flaked, which is a serious no-no. Generally in that situation, I would just not call her again, but if I felt like there was a decent probability that she had a legitimate action, then I would offer her to call me when she felt like she would be free, and we would meet then (or if she offered another date right then and there, accept it, if I were free.) One time I did this, the chic called me after a week asking why I didn't call (I responded that I didn't feel like she was interested.) Other times, I got no call. In your case, however, she mentioned her "boyfriend" (even if she really didn't have a boyfriend.) That is always chic-ese for low interest level, so you did the right thing back then.

Now as for her inquiring about your marital situation, it's unclear and could just be chit-chat, so I would blow that off. Her saying that she is no longer with her boyfriend should be interpreted as a signal of interest, and I would go for it. The worst that could happen is that she wants to play a stupid childlike game with you again - and as for this possibility, I would be ready to abuse nuclearly if she flaked out the second time.

If things progress, I would be on the lookout for her to periodically flake. I had a girlfriend that did that, until I could take it anymore (she was a real pro at coming with "dog ate my homework" reasons.)

Now as for other forum responders who say to look for other women, the problem with dating in the USA is that it seems that the only attractive women who are available are flakes like this (if they were not flakes, they wouldn't be recycled onto the open market.) It's the price to pay for dating in the USA.

 

[The Grue]

Very interesting posts and I see that the DJ's express differing opinions(but all come from a similar mindset).

The way I see it, dignity is important but this is not some woman I see or associate with on anything like a normal basis.
So I really don't care what she thinks.

I felt that her question about my status steered the discussion to where she could tell me she is available and I want to hit it.

Thanks for the advice dudes, it help and ingrains the right sort of attitude.

 

[guru1000]

Here is my whole problem with entertaining women who have flaked in the past.....

You both know what she did, it's an elephant in the room.

1. If you call her out on it, it's a DLV, she knows she got to you, you have now lost the frame.
2. If you don't call her out on it but still entertain her as if nothing happened, it's a DLV. You both know that you want to hit it and you are willing to tolerate crap behavior for it. DLV.
3. If you don't call her out on it but walk away, it's a DHV. She either disappears (which is fine, then she is definitely low interest). Or she chases you.

The only way to win in this situation is by retaining your dignity and the frame.....You do that by being dominant, not chasing, and you make her EARN the right to your time. She needs to display consistent high interest from this point on. She is lucky that you even respond to someone who would treat you in the manner she did. She knows what she did, now she must pay the price to get a chance with you.

Exactly.

I will go furthur to state that women with high IL will not flake on you without a SINCERE apology and counter offer.

If a woman with low IL who has previously flaked on you begins to call, she is chasing validation, not YOU. DO NOT compromise yourself by playing ball to such an arrangement. Walk away.

 

[The Grue]

Excellent posts from Danger and Guru1000.
I appreciate the thought you put into the posts and I have to say that you both argue with complete logic.
Theoretically, I agree with you.
It is important to control the frame and when you ask a woman who has canceled on you out again, it is definitely a DLV.
However, I feel that my intentions with Liz warrant a phone call.
Remember, I am not interested in a relationship here..I just want to get laid.

Yes, when a person is looking for marriage quality material, he needs to have high standards....but when it is just for target practice, who cares what the woman thinks?
Let her believe whatever she wants.
As long as I am focused on getting her into bed, it doesn't matter.
And after good sex and an orgasm... many things change in the balance of power.
So while I think your advice is sound, I believe that I must exploit an opportunity that has arisen.