A Thought for the Skepticals

[sifer]

Just a thing before we get to the topic.

You did a damn good job, A-Unit, at creating great threads for everyone to read. Everytime I see A-Unit next to your writing, I know it's going to be a great read. Thumbs up.

There's pearl of wisdom in his writing people, pick it and learn it!!

Ok anyway, I just wanted to get people to think of something before they start killing me for creating a probably "obvious" thread or a bad thread.



Originally I had it written out as some sort of essay. I decided to rephrase the entire article into something more simple.

When I refer to skepticals, I mean people who constantly doubt, disbelieve, or in other ways fit the definition of a Doubting Thomas. They are the "logicians" or people who "I'm a rational person, there is no such thing as..." So no philosophy or Socratic method or whatever.

Ok.

If backbreaker create a thread "how to get rich with only a dollar" (by the way, for the skepticals, yes it can be done!) what is mostly seen?

Bashing, probably more bashing and threatning in PMs, people with different belief saying "hey I was FOOLED into this! I was FOOLED into that! It does NOT work!!!" Occasionally there are those few who are successful, extremely or not, they pop in and concur, and you have half the population going "what? Is that so?"

Isn't that right? We don't have to look to great writers like Adonis or Shakespeare or Pook. Just look at the everyday posters.

Take a look, yes? What do you see?

Thread --> Bash post --> More bash post --> Proof that thread is wrong --> Bash threadstarter/OP's personal life, like his wife is too ugly --> Moderator probably step in and try to stop it or someone steps in --> ??? --> Profit!

That last two step was a joke if you couldn't tell. Anyway.

So why exactly do we always have to look at the thread and try to look for flaws? One MIGHT say "well it doesn't work", then three things might be done to remedy a situation, yes?

What are the three things that can be done if the OP creates a tutorial and it didn't work or seem to work for you?

1 - You re-read it and try to understand it. Was there a word you didn't understand? Perhaps no comprehending of the entire paragraph or even an entire article? Did you fully understand it inside out? Maybe the original poster is a bad writer? You know not everyone is an English professor, so can you cut him some slack if he spelled one -somefing- wrong?

2 - Lets' say you did. Or you do understand just about every word down to the letter, did you read things out of context? Quotes are nice nothings, everytime I see someone posting, they usually quote someone out of context. This makes the OP and many many times the poster himself look very very silly. Don't do it. Did you? Tempting to nit-pick a particular passage? Are you sure you're not starting an argument based on your ego or emotion?

3 - Ok, you understood it. Really, good. You didn't quote people or concentrate purely on a particular passage and say "this is the passage to go by" which by the way, I used to do. All of us are guilty of this moment, we look hard for the "to-dos" in an article and not the overall aspect. Like say, Pook's Be a man! I used to read it and look at the steps, like, get a bigger body or a healthier one. And believe me, that was a huge mistake in itself, I didn't truly understand it.

I had to repeat, step 1. Read it again. Read it again. Read it again. Read it again.

AH HA! I understand now, the body is meant to be a tool! A strong body creates a strong mind!

Ah ha, now I'm happier with myself. I didn't make the mistake of trying to use my body to impress the chick. Now I can kiss my bicep and say "wow, Sife, you, damn, if I was a chick, I'd rape you!"
At least I personally believe I'm that hot looking.

A bit long, still on 3, so you got the whole aspect, you say, "it doesn't work! I am 6'2 210lb almost all muscles! The chicks still arent' noticing me!!" So what went wrong? THAT'S when you make the reply and point out, say in this case if the article Be a man! was that short (for the sake of simplicity ok?!), "Pook good sir, my body is at the level which you described, in fact, better, I'm tanned! What am I doing wrong?"

Then Mr. Pook can lay out an ideal description of you and if you agree with it, he can give you a solution from there.

See? No bashing, no harm, nothing. You can apply this 3 step to ANY page in the DJ Bible.

Why don't you?
Why aren't you rich?
Why aren't you with the girl you're dreaming of?
Why aren't you famous at the level at which you want to be at?

I'm asking these questions to people who doubt people like A-Unit, backbreaker, Adonis, Pook, STR8UP's advices and many more.

I've always preached "I don't care about their background, just give me their advice". You can be a murderer, worse than Hitler, you can be Jesus Christ Himself, or whoever, if you tell me, in general, 1+1=2, and "be a man!!!" I will take that advice. Afterall, why not? I see people going, "AngelusPUA is the devil's spawn!!" but when I see the thread created by him, advice like that make me happy! Take a look http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106341 . Don't look at his name, just read it. In fact, copy the relevant pieces of work to notepad/wordpad so you don't have to see the name or get distracted by it.

What do you get? Good advice that seem to work, at least something you can try!

So for the skepticals, I have some questions. You proved say, Pook wrong. You proved me wrong, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Martha Stewart wrong, etcetc. Pook was a fake, just a damn impressive writer. STR8UP was a poor taximan (haha sorry dude I couldn't think of a better one for you). backbreaker isn't black! He was just a suburban white kid with too much time on his hand! And on and on. Sorry for the somewhat subtle racism or something but really, why are we attacking the OP at hand and not the piece of work?

I see people going "you never got laid? Too bad, 1+1=2 is wrong because it was by you". Take Gunwitch. I am a fan of every "method" and "formula", probably moreso than ANYBODY in this forum. I still have the habit of going straight to the nut and bolt of wha to do in a book whenever I pick one up. So Gunwitch, he preaches making yourself, your own values go up. But just read the people who bash him.

Gunwitch is persisting, regardless of how bad his advice may be, he is getting one chick at a time, doesn't matter if its' holding their hand or getting rejected. He's doing something. And he's getting stronger and better.

But what's the skeptics doing? Writing a long retort, probably something witty they got from a rapper or something and bashing away at why it doesn't work or what doesn't make sense or "duh" kind of response.

So I said, if we're all wrong, then who is right?

If let's say, Pook didn't exist, where would you be? I have known people who play Devil's Advocate, I used to do it but I realized it wasted a lot of my time. It's called Devil's Advocate for a reason, it's all ego stroking, trying to impress the person you're talking to with your "intellect".

If STR8UP didn't wake your mind up on money matters, where would you be?
If AngelusPUA didn't renew interests in people who love foreign exchanges, where would those people be?

The answer is, getting what they have always gotten, which is nothing.
Probably not getting richer, probably not trying to make the better for their own life or family.

Let's say backbreaker write an article, you discard it instead of trying to learn something from it. Then what? You just stroked your ego cause you got the last word or you felt "right" or "hahah you people believe that kind of thing? : rolls your geeky eyes :". SO. The real question comes down to this, are you anymore richer? More successful? More closer to your goal?

What I'm trying to say is, everytime someone read something, instead of quickly looking for flaws, why not take the good, and discard the bad? Pook embraces and actually embraces extreme (I mean extreme, I mean to the letter, EXTREME) masculinity. I personally think that's a bit on-the-edge. So instead of writing long huge articles on why Pook sucked (I've seen responses like "I don't like Pook and his writing so I don't read it at all" what did you learn by doing that?) I picked out what I can change, worked on my flaws, and tried to enjoy life as I have it.

I hope this clears up some things. If you are really as successful as your tone of post/reply make it, you wouldn't be here as much as you are now. I personally think this is why political/religious thread aren't allowed, people always go "God exist, go burn in hell" or "God doesn't exist, suck my wishbone" or something.

Enjoy people. I enjoyed writing it so you guys better enjoy reading it. It's 4AM and I want applauses.



PS - might be a bad timing at my part, I've never gotten "bashed" as per se but I've been quoted many times out of context in financially related threads, it was something I had in mind for a while; if you want to post a reply, be constructive, that's the key to learning, otherwise you're just trolling

 

[sifer]

A cliff's note.

Don't bash the poster, instead of attacking the poster himself, attack the article if there's legitimacy in what you're about to say.

Share your experience when you post, be as clear and concise as possible.

Instead of asking, in general, why the article is wrong or bad, ask yourself, "what am I doing wrong?" "Do I understand it?" "Who am I?" "What am I missing?" and any other question pertaining the topic at hand.

Focus on what you want to do instead of spending precious time on the forum.

Dance along and sing along with life. :crackup:

 

[Diaoz]

I'm surprised no one responded.

Don't worry sifer, it's a good post with a damn good point. The likely problem is that no one read through it, properly.

It's the same for me, I don't care who the advice is coming from, or what the advice is. Matter of fact, there is something you can derive from anything, good or bad. I must say I've gotten a lot from these forums and looking back, I've grown much. Someday I know I'll be able to contribute back.

I'd take the opportunity to thank some of you guys who post stuff so darn long, I have to bookmark and read it months later. However, your sharing of experiences and thoughts for FREE - all for the sake of helping yourself and others grow gives us who are appreciative a warm fuzzy feeling.

Please do continue to post. Thanks again and out.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Fantastic Post, sifer, and thanks for the bits of referencing you did.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You're spot on with this one. The biggest thing with most of the internet tags is you can't verify someone's background, past or experience, BUT you can validate or invalidate their information. Some guys have myspace sites, or AOL im's, or emails. I've talked candidly with guys online, sifer included (where the heck have you been, btw?), and Jvesti & co., and been available. But what I post or write, just like sifer, isn't FOR ME, it's the community. It's to inspire new lines of thought, much like old school "universities" would. The better position to approach from is one of FIXING an equation to solve it, RATHER than figure all the ways IT CANNOT work.

Often, only liking a poster based on WHO they are, ignores th merit of their work. Those with good posts get ignored because of "cliques", and those with poor posts and good connections get lots of Koodos. It's very much a political process, rather than a merit-based on process. However, THOSE who write, do not care what the readers say. They might CLARIFY their points, but they're likely to only invest time in those seeking to positively benefit, even if it challenges the beliefs and information of BOTH parties.

A note on any type of information or mentoring...you're only going to rise to the height of the information/knowledge you have, or that is possessed by your mentor. If the guys here only knew about getting 5's, who they thought were 10's, and these 5's were hs chicks and college gals, then guys would only succeed to that level. Yet, if guys CONSTANTLY improve, bringing new information, the bible can be more complete in a variety of areas, whereas it might not previously have been.

Think of the information provided by 00Kevin, Rollo, Des, & other more "mature" posters. Think of the benefit to the younger members who are still in HS or entering college. If you want success, for instance in college, do as a freshman what you would do as a senior. A senior in college has a sense of presence, confidence in school and around, reputation, connections, knowledge, experience (that comes with time and exposure), a willingness to risk, to get involved, and to take chances. A senior isn't afraid of rejection from a freshman OR a senior, b/c pvssy is pvssy. As a senior, you know there are more women, and they want/need you more than you want/need them. Your position as an alcohol buyer also brings you more women, but you're likely to be trampled over as a nice guy, so learn early. You want better women younger, associate with older guys. That along speaks of maturity, which automatically puts you ahead of guys YOUR own age, and allows you the change to compete among guys OLDER than you.

There's merit in alot of ideas, but to benefit from them, one must CHEW the idea around a bit, and ADD to it what value they see/feel/think on their own by posting, RATHER than trying to show their hand by shooting it down, which is a temporary victory AT best, because now it's a pissing match rather than anyone person benefiting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd made a RECO'd book list b/c people wanted to reference on their own certain posts I, or anybody had made and where such information comes from...be it experience, or be it reading, or both... In that way, you can go to the source and INGRAIN what you like and discard what you don't. You needn't read the books to be successful. A person has ALL the potential success they need just BY choosing. Books amplify and MAGNIFY that, by giving you better TOOLS. Yet, there are books I wouldn't have found had people not mentioned that I absolutely love, as well as music, movies, and the like.

Perhaps it is a matter of maturity to focus on the information, rather than any biases we have with the poster. And perhaps it is a matter of maturity to try to improve upon what exists RATHER than just criticize, complain, and bytch over it. Only time will tell, but we can't try to breathe life into a dead corpse, as a nurse that I know regularly says. In other words, you can't force people to do what they don't choose to do.



A-Unit

 

[whistler]

Nice post.

When an idea is approached and handled in the way you describe, a real, adult discussion ensues. And that's awesome. In a perfect world, we would glean what we can from a post, help others through the discussion, and everyone would improve as a result.

Skepticism is a healthy part of any discussion in which controversial ideas are put forth. Of course, anyone claiming to be open-minded understands that.

But why do posts on say, "The Secret," garner so much negative criticism?

Well, it's not against the poster (or, at least, it shouldn't be).

Rather, it's about the content. In the case of "The Secret," it's not that influencing reality or destiny through your thoughts isn't cool or even possible. It's that it doesn't make sense, that it is argued to be life-changing, and that it is closely affiliated with individuals who fit the classic profile of "snake oil" salesmen.

So the reasons to attack it conscientiously are manifold:

It's illogical.

It lacks an explanatory mechanism.

It's unsupported by anything more than anecdotal, confirmatory evidence.

It's pitched by salesmen.

You could potentially waste a lot of time/money in pursuit of it.


Does that mean one should stick with the status quo? Of course not. Nor should you give a sh!t about the criticism if the original idea benefits you. The point is that we have limited time. There's a call for an investment (on many levels) in there. Buying into "The Secret" to me is like buying into the idea of a flat earth. If it smells like flat earth after careful consideration, shouldn't we take some action?


Not all ideas are great or worthy. That doesn't mean you guys should stop posting. Quite the opposite. It just means, sometimes criticism of an idea--especially an idea that makes grand claims and demands action--is warranted.

whistler

 

[Brian20o2]

Props to sifer. Awesome post!

Bizzump!


Damn I'm white...:crackup: