A Question

[TheHumanist]

It seems my post and question was deleted the in Str8up latest thread. Fair enough, I have been going too far, but I'll ask again and hopefully find some kind of answer.


As many notice, St8up have been writing up threads about his experiences lately. The easiest way to depict that it sounds like his life have turned into a dramedy that fit for a show, namely something like Desperate Housewives. So many it seems are stories of a girl ****ing a married man, people completely desensitized to injustice in relationships, people guiltlessly hurting the people who should be their closest, his LTRs ending so abruptly and without warning and so coldly too, and friends who is so disloyal and cruel.

In many of these threads there seem to be two many camps: one that says it is the crowd he surrounds himself with and the other says that it is the world is like this ("women are women, people are people").

There is also a small middle ground that mindset is the true difference. Believing in the good of people or evil leads to experience reflecting it. It is debatable if it is the mindset leading to surrounding oneself with people (likes attract likes) who are good or evil, or just the mindset just turn a blind eye or extra attention to good or evil based on the mindset developed.

It seems many here have many different experiences. My experiences does not agree with what Str8up sees. The people I'm around with don't go around with stories of things like ****ing the married man or girl/boyfriend cheating, but the worse is usually the turmoil of that couple going off and on or something like that. I see many professors and teachers who the most "adult exposure" and many I see seems to act without that level of drama (of course, how can I know? I don't, but stories should have leaked out more commonly if there are that types of stories, at least things like divorces). I watched and participated with people who go as groups of friends have some kind of spirit to go and have fun, not the insanity Str8up described. I heard stories of my friends and their parents, some are divorced - with many times they watch them fight incessantly until sometime finally gave, some are married though with little passion but spending much of their time working together and so on, some are married very young and still together, others older.

Str8up's stories in light of that does not compute, but he have others who seen the same and agrees. Perhaps those who disagrees and I are just blind. Or perhaps the dissenting groups are right.

One of the major advice advocated here is what whatever the person surrounds themselves with is the type of person they are. There is also the advice that says "treat bad girls as bad girls and good girls as good girls" leading that there are different type of people. Sounds like a damn safe way to deem what type they are and how to choose.

However then there's Rollo Tomassi's "Right Person, Right Time" theory along with other writings. While it only says the same girl who act sweet and nice is the same girl is the same girl who throws herself at a person met twenty minutes earlier, it gives an implication that both genders present a huge act and at the core everyone is the same. Not just sluttiness, but an indication of an malicious and spiteful core.

Who is right? The side that advocates that there are different types of people who gravitate to those people? Or the side that says we are all blind except a few who have very high perception see that the world is like that TV show.

 

[Obsidian]

i'm leaning toward the notion that the whole world is screwed up

 

[Interceptor]

Humanist, my feeling is that the 'like attracts like" theory is the most natural.

I feel that if you have a strong Identity, and at your Core , sure of who you are, you will find yourself in the company of people whom have very very similar belief systems and values as you.And generally, I believe people whom do not resonate at they same 'vibration' level as you, will simply not appear in your life.
If we look at ourselves as having Layers, then we may better grasp the notion that many many people do not Know ThemSelves, and have a Persona as thir external appearance, while internally have a different vibration frequency.

That is, IMO they may put on the 'happy face', and yet inside be miserable full of negative and self limiting beliefs.
The thought frequency you RADIATE, CANNOT be Hidden.
The inner Self is always shining through.
You can fake it, but you cannot hide the inner Emptiness or Lack of Identity.
SImply put,IMO people whom are more observant, and have deep knowledge of themselves, wil eventually recognize the tell tale signs of Incongruency and disingenuousness in Others.

So,it is my belief if one does not have a Strong Identity, meaning, Strong ideas, opinions, ideas, and prefernce, and does NOT know what they want, you are at the Mercy of your disorganized and directionless Thoughts.and these very thoughts are the ones whom usually Unknwowingly by yourself, radiate and manifest the circumstances, people, places, and things you are in tune with, your Frequency.

What is the key factor in that then?

Whether they are Positive and Constructive or NOT.



Having said that, I believe one can have as strong Identity, ideas , opinions, and preferences, yet they can ALL be false, self limiting, Negative and Destructive and STILL attract the Negative people, places, things, and circumstances into your Life.

Such is the Power of the Mind IMO , and the ability for people to CREATE thier Life Circumstances so much that they WIlLL attract 'evidence' to SUPPORt their View that "all women are b*tches, the world sucks, and everyone is a back stabber, etc etc".

If we believ that "Happiness is a Choice." and it is possible for their to be a "rags to riches" story, and things like these, then we must start to question "Why am I getting these reuslts in My Life?"

Good or bad.
Positive or Negative.
Constructive or Destructive.

I believe it all starts in Your Mind.

I also believe that "Character is Destiny."

 

[Technical1]

I too have wondered about this.

Once you realize most women possess an 'inner slvt' that doesnt come out because A) it is repressed or B) they are choosy, rather than spiritual beings intent on distributing sex as a reward for well-developed character, your view of the world changes. At least, that is what happened to me.

I now take human beings and human life a lot less seriously and dont believe that anything about us is really sacred or worthy of reverance. Think about it, people used to worship dead Saint's bones. People used to worship images of Saints and have conversations with them. How ridiculous.
I used to think women were angelic, delicate things that bestowed rewards for hard-work, vigor and dedication. In reality, they are a primitive genetic system from way way back, and they thrive on cavemen, because that is where they are at in evolution. We are similar, and I think in the 2-3 weeks since I discovered this site Ive begun having more fun and learned more about myself, because the insights here remove or at least loosen the halter of civilization and its systems of thought, which one inevitably takes upon onself in order to get respect from society.

It was strange, being respected in polite society for studying a hard subject and doing good academically, while ceding first place amongst women to drug dealers and "pimps". Obviously, we had not done enough to straddle the two poles of our nature, and bring together these two worldviews, that of the AFC and that of Str8up. Perhaps age and bitter experience give you more strength to drink Str8ups poison, and it kills the AFC in you. That has been my experience thus far in life.

 

[TheHumanist]

--Interceptor

Then how is the world really like? What about Str8up and his supporters of his observations? In my mind, I see people who are actively trying to live thier lives, people are flaws, but most are fighting the same conflict within and asking the very same questions. Is that true? What should I take from all those posts?

--Technical1

I never see women as spirtual beings who go around rewarding good character with sex, to me, I see them as human beings. As human beings to me, I see them just having many different views, conflicts, desires, dreams, goals, and questions. Some are more considerate than others, some are much more cruel and self-centered, but all have demons trying to deal with inside. As for sluttiness, I see it with girls having varing degrees, some just want to sleep around, and what Iqqi recently outline her center of her arguments (then get burned, justified is debatable) is many perfer something deeper.

Are you saying that the world Str8up sees is in the right? To hold to the idea to believe in good in people is an AFC thinking? Time and experience will embitter me and "strenghten" me to take Str8up's poison and see his world? I don't see the world as rainbows and unicorns as said above, but I scream at the idea that the world that no one cares living mindlessly hurting each other, a world that the one that a person who matters the most is the one who gets hurts the most and I just don't see it. I don't see my friends doing that, I see my older peers doing that.

 

[Señor Fingers]

--Interceptor

Then how is the world really like? What about Str8up and his supporters of his observations?

It's a tough argument to resolve. It's not that these people are mistaken, but in a lot of ways we all see and believe what we want to. The only dangerous ground is in generalizations and extremes.

• All girls cheat
• Women will always tear you down
• Men are victims

If you really believe this, then guess what kind of people you are going to attract.

The state of the world begins in your mind and how you perceive it.

You want my take?

The world is really, really ****ed up right now. We are in the Dark Ages of our humanity/morality when someone like Paris Hilton becomes a role model.

Most people want to be rich, stuck up assh0les with zero character development. They search for the easy way out every time cause life's a big bag of Shake n Bake and if I cant be happy in 5 minutes Im going to numb myself with TV / Drugs / Scandal!

In light of all that though, I see hope. A lot of people are fed up with the way things are. They remember forgotten words like "integrity" and "honor". Their numbers are growing because after so much evil is done in the world, people know suffering and this teaches them compassion.

Given the choice, I like to focus my attention on these types of people and deal with the rest of the scumbags as little as possible!

 

[penkitten]

What should I take from all those posts?

you take knowledge that some may lead their lives one path, and others will lead their lives another path. str8up's path is his own, and the humanist's path is his own.
each have different things to learn from this world, each have different things to give.
each will see their own lives completely different, but have some of the same questions. each will have their own morals inside.
if you question another person's morals, it is not for their sake, but that of your own. questioning their choices, only leads you to answer the questions you have of yourself.
for instance, when you read about a married man sleeping with some other woman and not feeling bad about it, you question yourself , as if you were in their shoes. you will answer to yourself, on what you are willing to do or what you are not willing to do.
then, you take knowledge of yourself and those answers as they will help you to form your character.

 

[TheHumanist]

Thank you Penkitten and Senor Fingers.

Perhaps the world is in the Dark Ages, though everyone around me jokes about Paris Hilton and complain the idea that there are some that idolize her. Come to think of it, despite everyone around me mention Paris being idolized by idiots, I haven't hung around them.

However, what about his advice? Interesting insight in taking stories of Str8up to think of what should I do and how does it bother me. However, some are not stories, but statements gained by his experience. I just read another thing that Str8up states in a thread of an ending 4 year relationship thread. "Men go into relationships thinking they can relax and enjoy their relationship, women go into a relationship and as soon as the initial rush has worn off they start looking around" and without guilt or care for the guy.

What should I take from that? Expect the girl to be actively searching for another guy? Keep an incessant eye on her? I remember, quoting Joekerr as it is the easiest way to convey the idea, "show me a couple who jogs, a couple who take ballroom dancing, and I'll show you a marriage that works." Putting effort and caring for the relationship to not drift apart. Sound like great advice, but Str8up and other posts seem to blow that out of the water. That line above (and another statement of saying the guy always needs to be at his best) implicates that it never collaspe from neglect (doing nothing), but from a little less than on the highest guard (not jumping through hoops enough to keep her "high"). It says the character of women will only stick around if women are the highest point of infatuation, always actively looking for another guy, and have no care for the relationship or the guy.

There much more other statements and advice from him too. Again, I don't see it that commonly, some incidents here and there, but it from people I expected. It not that I don't see this happening, some time ago, when my friend tried to set up a female friend and friend together, she told him she is not ready for a relationship, took **** buddies instead, then she jump on to be a relationship for another guy despite barely knowing him. However, her history have been a history of instability and drama in relationships, unless she reflects enough to understand herself better, I won't expect her to change that very soon and it went as predicted. I do see instead many other couples holding the ground and the girl cares how things are.

Another piece of information advice that bothers me a lot is I do suspect there are many low quality people. The common reasoning said by many is the reason of the lesser exposure, I'm in a pretty highly ranked university, perfer nerdier or the outgoing type of people, and etc. Not all of them are like super-cool-friendly-self-improving-inquisitive-disciplined people, but at least they never idolize Britney or Paris nor expect life to be handed on a platter. However, it seem many advice that even around these people (including Rollo Tomassi's advice someone saying it is a myth that different locations means better people... and it did not sound like he left the possiblity of like a different mix open either), it is still insanity and I just don't see it.

 

[Señor Fingers]

STR8UP knows what he's talking about, but who is to say that your experiences will be identical?

You are taking one man's perspective to heart and that's dangerous. Get other perspectives.. or even better, get out their and live some experiences so you can make your own conclusions.

You will screw up..badly sometimes. It's all part of growing up and reaching manhood.

Dont be so afraid to make a mistake that you fail to think for yourself.

 

[TheHumanist]

True. Even not on this site, everyone knows that sometimes the only way is to go out yourself.

I just can't get pass Str8up and his supporters. I hear the other perspectives, and to be honest, I much rather listen to them. There just that voice that keep saying "what if you're just being blind." The one damn line that just cannot be refuted in my head. I do think for myself, or so I tell myself, in my head I reasoned the many arguments for one side against another, and while I'm inclined to look more optimistically, the safest approach is preparing for the worse case, which is Str8up and his supporters description of the world and women. The problem is that, everything else shriek against that thought, but I can't reject what was said, except by the possiblity that he has surrond himself with the wrong crowd which he denies and support by the experience of others.

 

[Interceptor]

Humanist, you're still a young man.
You are very astute, your intellect is very sharp.
But you still do not have that much real world living under your belt.


You must be PATIENT.
You must understand that you lack experiences, and you cannot put total faith in others' until you start seeing what we're talking about first hand.

You doubt, because you haven't seen results and circumstances like we have.

But all that takes time.

Start now, while youre young and not jaded and bitter.
And remember, that it doesn't matter who you're with, or what you're doing ..if your mindset is positive, you choose courage, and make decsions that are positive and constructive..no one can get at you.
Likewise, if you're bitter and miserable, then there is little chance a good job or nice house or good person will be appreciated by you.
Most lottery winners lose most of their winnings in the first year.

Oftentimes, it's because they never had an image of themselves beiung successful and with money, so they self sabotage it..and lose it all.to go right back to wher they started.

 

[Interceptor]

Dont be so afraid to make a mistake that you fail to think for yourself

very true

 

[Technical1]

I just can't get pass Str8up and his supporters. I hear the other perspectives, and to be honest, I much rather listen to them. There just that voice that keep saying "what if you're just being blind." The one damn line that just cannot be refuted in my head. ....

Whats the problem, Humanist? Are you wondering if all or most women are "bad"? There are a lot of hi-qual women who dont act like sluts. (states the obvious).

If youre wondering whether selfishness is the basis for human behavior, the answer is yes! Richard Dawkins answered this conclusively in 'The Selfish Gene'. I dont know if you believe in God, but presuming you believe in DNA, the only way we could have evolved, is to be selfish. Its a property of self-replicating structures, and the explanation takes literally forever, but the logic of evolution basically demanded that we be selfish and maximize advantage.

Evolutionary biology and evolutionary psych also explain things like arms races - i.e. fashionable clothes, and the "tension" involved in all altruistic behaviors. This tension is a part of our everyday lives. We usually call the altruistic part of our nature the 'higher' part and invent social controls to enforce it, while demanding that the 'lower' part be sacrificed to it. The woman raising a family and loving her husband is the 'higher' part, according to this thinking, and the woman boozing and getting picked up is the 'lower' part of our nature. One results in demographic collapse and one in demographic expansion, or so says my simplified understanding. In terms of overall societal stability, altruistic behaviors brought stable societal conditions while non-altruistic ('lower') behaviors brought about societal collapse. I agree with the poster above that there is no doubt that America is in a state of societal collapse. Technological development also makes history 'accelerate', so the pace of historical change is ever increasing, thus we have seen more historical change in the last 50 years than other people in the 150 before that, in terms of changes deeply effecting our lives as human beings.

You could apply either the logic of survival, the logic of maximizing one's own happiness (long or short term), or the logic of maximizing the happiness of the group, to almost any question of human behavior. In any event, given a lack of strong conviction or some kind of narrow-mindedness or strong will, all of these will give ambiguous answers.

AFCs idolize women, and some bitter AFCs-turned-players imagine that women are all dumb slvts (dont know if this is Str8ups view or not).
What about finding a middle ground, where you maintain power but also have some emotional blossoming with the woman?

This site has incidentally also caused me to have an identity crisis of sorts, you feel the changes going on deep inside you. I feel like my life just went from being mostly boring to being a rollercoaster ride!

 

[reset]

And remember, that it doesn't matter who you're with, or what you're doing ..if your mindset is positive, you choose courage, and make decsions that are positive and constructive..no one can get at you.

I'll take that.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Why do you feel the need to make a choice on whether to expect heaven or hell on earth? Your own experience will show you that both can coexist with no problems whatsoever.

Subscribing to one extremist world view is way too limiting cuz life is a bittersweet b!tch/maiden, my friend.

I will tell you this much:

One thing I have learned from years of observation is that people who focus on negative BS are likely to attract it. Simple magnetism at work.

The people I know with positive outlooks are going places in life while the rest of the unfortunate souls b!tch and whine about how there is no justice in the world.

Now you tell me who is right, and who is happy.

Expect the best from your life, but be prepared to face bumps on the road.

It's really that simple.

EDIT: Great post, Interceptor

 

[penkitten]

humanist,
you are one of my favorite people on this board, because you do not feel afraid to voice your opinion, or to totally get in deep within a thread.
most guys on the board you age, well , they are still trying to walk up and speak to girls... while you seem so much more mature.

i want to speak my mind for just a second on some things i have watched men here at the board go through. they have , over the years, experienced disappointment while dating .
you know , it all starts when you expect that someone you see will be just as good of a person as you are. when you put all your faith into them, and they walk away, cheat on you, lie to you, or take you for all you are worth.... you just have a really hard time of letting go of that.

from my own experience, i can say, that there was a time that i was not a happy person. i was disappointed in mankind for the actions of my ex husband. everyone paid the price for a while because he would not assume his own responsibility or accountability for his actions.
it took a while to date again, but when i did, no one was good enough.
there would be something stupid that i would find out and mark them as flawed and throw them away. they did nothing wrong and yet, i am guilty of treating them badly. the truth of the matter was, i had never fully had the time to evaluate myself, find my own flaws and correct them. i was not ready to be in another serious relationship because i had not dealt with my past.
i would just say that i could never love again like that, so blind.
you never know when your love or your checking account will run out.

by being a member here, reading every word the guys here had to say about the horrible things women did to them and the games they played... eventually made me mature into a woman that now understands that no one else can pay the price for what i went through, because they did not cause it. however, there are many people out that that stay bitter and scorn and they never let it go.

when i let go of all of the things of my past, found who i am, i was able to move on and yearn for a relationship again. it is after that, when i was able to accept someone for who they were, flaws and all and love with my whole heart again.
once a person ends up in those shoes, some of them keep the watchful eye, as not to be hurt again so badly. i can not be one of those people. i can not be the one that questions my husband about everything always wondering how he will wrong me. i choose to not only love him, but give him the trust that he deserves, because he has never wronged me.
do i love blindly?
so be it.
love is no fun if you must sleep with one eye open.

 

[TheHumanist]

Sorry, I never meant I'm in a conflict between expecting heaven and hell. If it is a conflict of that, it would be more like earth and hell. Though I don't think that is correct. Like I said, I don't see the world as all angels, but he describle it as pretty damn close to hell. You are right, you are twice my age, I am not going to deny you have wisdom and understanding that I don't, what's troubling is based on what I seen and who I look up to, I don't see what he said, I see some here and there, but not close to that scale.

My problem is I trend to be optimistic, not too long ago as noted by a friend that I heavily look for the good in everybody, but I must question myself if I'm just being naive. I'm worried I'm being blind and foolish. My analysis is in deadlock and I can't seem to compromise on the views to myself (how can one compromise without reject part of what Str8up sees). My experiences does show actually that do coexist with no problems (its not like I been living in a bubble, **** happens before), Str8up seems to show that it is a lot worse meaning I am missing something. If not, something is.

Whats the problem, Humanist? Are you wondering if all or most women are "bad"? There are a lot of hi-qual women who dont act like sluts. (states the obvious).

Stating the obvious, ah yes, my experience that most have some level of character, I have met many, I agree. Many here does not and have back it up well.

Edit: Wow, PK very large food for thought. Thank you, that was very kind of you to say that, but I must be honest, I don't consider myself that great of a poster, just lots of questions and ideas.

 

[Interceptor]

humanist,
you are one of my favorite people on this board, because you do not feel afraid to voice your opinion, or to totally get in deep within a thread.
most guys on the board you age, well , they are still trying to walk up and speak to girls... while you seem so much more mature.

i want to speak my mind for just a second on some things i have watched men here at the board go through. they have , over the years, experienced disappointment while dating .
you know , it all starts when you expect that someone you see will be just as good of a person as you are. when you put all your faith into them, and they walk away, cheat on you, lie to you, or take you for all you are worth.... you just have a really hard time of letting go of that.

from my own experience, i can say, that there was a time that i was not a happy person. i was disappointed in mankind for the actions of my ex husband. everyone paid the price for a while because he would not assume his own responsibility or accountability for his actions.
it took a while to date again, but when i did, no one was good enough.
there would be something stupid that i would find out and mark them as flawed and throw them away. they did nothing wrong and yet, i am guilty of treating them badly. the truth of the matter was, i had never fully had the time to evaluate myself, find my own flaws and correct them. i was not ready to be in another serious relationship because i had not dealt with my past.
i would just say that i could never love again like that, so blind.
you never know when your love or your checking account will run out.

by being a member here, reading every word the guys here had to say about the horrible things women did to them and the games they played... eventually made me mature into a woman that now understands that no one else can pay the price for what i went through, because they did not cause it. however, there are many people out that that stay bitter and scorn and they never let it go.

when i let go of all of the things of my past, found who i am, i was able to move on and yearn for a relationship again. it is after that, when i was able to accept someone for who they were, flaws and all and love with my whole heart again.
once a person ends up in those shoes, some of them keep the watchful eye, as not to be hurt again so badly. i can not be one of those people. i can not be the one that questions my husband about everything always wondering how he will wrong me. i choose to not only love him, but give him the trust that he deserves, because he has never wronged me.
do i love blindly?
so be it.
love is no fun if you must sleep with one eye open.

Penny, this was beautiful , insightful, and deeply moving.

Thank you.

 

[Interceptor]

Sorry, I never meant I'm in a conflict between expecting heaven and hell. If it is a conflict of that, it would be more like earth and hell. Though I don't think that is correct. Like I said, I don't see the world as all angels, but he describle it as pretty damn close to hell. You are right, you are twice my age, I am not going to deny you have wisdom and understanding that I don't, what's troubling is based on what I seen and who I look up to, I don't see what he said, I see some here and there, but not close to that scale.

My problem is I trend to be optimistic, not too long ago as noted by a friend that I heavily look for the good in everybody, but I must question myself if I'm just being naive. I'm worried I'm being blind and foolish. My analysis is in deadlock and I can't seem to compromise on the views to myself (how can one compromise without reject part of what Str8up sees). My experiences does show actually that do coexist with no problems (its not like I been living in a bubble, **** happens before), Str8up seems to show that it is a lot worse meaning I am missing something. If not, something is.



Stating the obvious, ah yes, my experience that most have some level of character, I have met many, I agree. Many here does not and have back it up well.

Humanist, once you understand that you must temper your Optimism with SHREWDNESS...all will be well.

Shrewdness comes from understanding your environment.
By familiarizing with the subtle dynamics of different environments you then Develop INTUITION.

Intuition gives information for you to be Shrewd in your decision making.



Combine these with Self Respect and Self Esteem, you will have a Strong Personal Boundary....and you will not fall into those traps that naive people fall into.

You will not simply GIVE AWAY your Value to those whom are undeserving and unappreciative of it.

 

[iqqi]

by being a member here, reading every word the guys here had to say about the horrible things women did to them and the games they played... eventually made me mature into a woman that now understands that no one else can pay the price for what i went through, because they did not cause it. however, there are many people out that that stay bitter and scorn and they never let it go.

when i let go of all of the things of my past, found who i am, i was able to move on and yearn for a relationship again. it is after that, when i was able to accept someone for who they were, flaws and all and love with my whole heart again.
once a person ends up in those shoes, some of them keep the watchful eye, as not to be hurt again so badly. i can not be one of those people. i can not be the one that questions my husband about everything always wondering how he will wrong me. i choose to not only love him, but give him the trust that he deserves, because he has never wronged me.
do i love blindly?
so be it.
love is no fun if you must sleep with one eye open.

BEST KITTY POST EVER!!!!

Wow, what a great post, Pennie. Rep points here.