A Misconception about Marriage

[Francisco d'Anconia]

WTF happened to my thread?

Ambushed by sniper fire.

 

[azanon]

WTF happened to my thread?

Its all still there, chief.

I've only been here a month, but i take it this board must be new. You guys act like you've never seen a thread drift before. Lets hope one doesn't get outright hijacked to a completely different subject lest one of you have a coronary!

 

[PRMoon]

PR Moon:

I have bad news for you.

Nobody outside OR inside of your family will remember you in 100 years either way.

Your great grandchildren won't have any idea who you were.

Even if they did, what's the point?

Being remembered after you die is not a reason for marriage or children. Its foolish. We will all be forgotten. History remembers less that 0,001% of all people.

Grinder:

Prison is a "life experience' too I would imagine.

Still I know I do not want to experience it!!!!

Doesn't seem to me to be a real reason to get married either.

Dietzcoi

Even if we are forgotten we've made an impact of somekind. Sure I won't be remembered forever, but I've made a difference in someones life. I've had an impact on my children and my grand childrens life. By being someone who's a role model for my next of kin I've done something special that made my existance useful. Who knows? Maybe my children or childrens childrens will be people who will change the world for the better for a way that can't be measured by my understanding. My character as a person and facilitated through my union with someone else could make a difference for everyone. There's no way to tell but if I don't act and live a life of insignficance, like my great great grand father did, then there's no chance of that happening at all. Life is ultimately a large roulette wheel where none of us can determine the outcome. If you don't gamble and try to make the best of the time you have here, then the future is definate in the fact that you didn't make a difference. If you do try to beat the odds and make something of yourself then there's a small chance that what you do could be echoed through the ages for centuries.

 

[Desdinova]

You guys act like you've never seen a thread drift before.

I was just joking

I can't believe that it exploded into seven pages. Lots of interesting posts in here!

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo PRMOON,


I like the way you think, dude. Whether it's LTR/Marriage or just living your life as an individual, I agree that everyone has significance. Every life touches and effects another. What we do here MATTERS.

Which is why I KNOW that when a man makes ANY kind of commitment in life, whether it is to a woman, an idea, or to a CAUSE----it is undeniable evidence of his maturity.

Because in choosing ONE thing, a man automatically sacrafices SOMETHING else. Despite what the feminists say. Despite what the Macho Boys say. The making of a choice, although it limits your supposed "OPTIONS", wisdom is the ability to recognize which options are best for your life now, AND in the future.

It was John Donne who said "No man is an Island."

This statement, if you go by the surface philosophy of this particular community, is possibly THE MOST anti-DJ thing a "male" could ever say.

However, the embracing of this truth could also, quite possibly, be the most thoroughly fulfilling MASCULINE way for a mature man to live his life.

Peace...one day.

 

[Latinoman]

Okay...okay...more on marriage based on a survey (AOL) in which over 3,000 women participated.

Here are some of the highlights of that survey:

• 36% of the women surveyed said that they would not marry their husbands if they had to do it all over again.
  
• An additional 20% said they were not sure if they would marry their husband again.
  (Note: 36% + 20% = 56% of women disastified with their choice of husband)
  
• 76% of the women reported keeping secrets from their husbands. (And considering that women are TERRIBLE at keeping secrets...this figure is bizarre!)
  
• 49% suspect their husbands of cheating at one time or another.
  
• 76% fantasize about having sex with other men.
  
• 39 % admit to constantly flirting with other men. (Note: Key word in here is "constantly" and another is "disrespecting"...as "constantly disrespecting their husbands")
  

I heard this in MSNBC 'Scarborough Country' (Cable News). He talked with this doctor (young woman) and she said that this is a clear indication that more women are disastified with their husbands and that men are failing to keep women satisfied. Interestingly enough, I remembered a female doctor (that looks amazingly like the one invited last night to MSNBC) saying in Fox (Cable News) few months ago, that the husband of this famous former model (she is now in her 50s and he was in his early 40s) was "insecure" because he cheated with a woman that was in her early 20s.

Now...if the man cheats he is "insecure", but if the woman "cheats" she does it because the man "failed to satisfy" her?

 

[Vulpine]

If she takes the kids he'll have to make child support payments - but should those kids want to go to college the financial burden falls squarely on her shoulders unless he CHOOSES to help out. Don't think that never happens, my last landlord went through that. Her ex probably makes $300K per year but refused to help with college bills suddenly for whatever his excuse du jour is.

I have first hand experience and will tell you exactly what the excuse du jour is. Here a man forks over cash for the well-being of his kids to a woman. Rather than using that cash for the well-being, and future well-being of the kids, the woman uses the money to pay rent, buy guys drinks at the bar, and to buy groceries...
whatever.

How much the guy makes a year is irrelevant, he already paid to put the kids through college. Instead of the woman getting a job and putting up just as much to match the contribution, she lived off the child support, or counted on it as income.

The exact details of how the woman lived aren't very important here. The outcome is the same: she misused the funding, didn't invest any of the child support towards the future, and her financial incompetence ultimately hurt the kids.

She wanted the kids? She got them. Perhaps if the man got the kids it would be a different outcome. The man had the court CHOOSE to put the kids through college, and he did. Don't try to point a finger at the man and call him a deadbeat. Instead, turn to the woman and ask her: "What do you think all that child support money was for? Where did it all go? A new car payment?"

Oh sure, women will contest that the extra mouths to feed and extra bedrooms and extra clothes all "add up". But, 10% of child support "adds up" to college tuition. But did that 10% get used for a college fund?

Again, don't for one second think that the guy should need to pay "above and beyond" or "again". :nono: That crap is a woman's hype spun so as to afford women lavish lifestyles and dodge responsibility. Rather than say "oops, I blew the money at the casino." and admit fault, women say "That deadbead jerk didn't pay for the kids' college." and pass the blame off to the man that they divorced (He must be flawed anyway, right? I mean, they got divorced for a reason, right? *insert woman's ranting and listing of man's flaws here to help support the "he should pay for college" arguement*). That is some serious Dr. Phil bandwagon sh!t.

Just think, what would you do with several thousand dollars' worth of college tuition? It's like winning the lottery: payments spread out over a long term.

 

[Latinoman]

If she takes the kids he'll have to make child support payments - but should those kids want to go to college the financial burden falls squarely on her shoulders unless he CHOOSES to help out. Don't think that never happens, my last landlord went through that. Her ex probably makes $300K per year but refused to help with college bills suddenly for whatever his excuse du jour is.

Putting a child through college should NOT be a parent obligation. I put myself through college. My ex-wife did the same. Same with my girlfriend.

No court should force a parent to put a child through college. It sends the wrong example.

Now, should a parent help? I'm not even questioning the validity of that.

But EXPECTING a parent to provide for college tuition?

I rather see my kids getting into the financial burden themselves...and then...once they graduate...and become professionals...perhaps, my gift to them is ME taking over THEIR college loan payments.

 

[Vulpine]

That's the other side of the coin. Good point Latinoman.

 

[wayword]

Well, paying for college is not necessarily a parental obligation. It depends on multi-generational "agreements." In intelligent, conservative cultures with strong family ties like Asians or conservative Whites - the parents will often foot the bill and the kids will show more respect to their rents - especially caring for them more in their elder years in exchange. That's why there are no nursing homes in Asia - traditionally, the sons take their parents in.

However, in your average White American family - the kids are kicked out at 18 and on their own. The rents might help out some, but they don't see it as their duty.

In Black families, most kids born now don't even have dads...so they essentially get adopted by the state. Their surrogate "dads" are YOU the US taxpayer and affirmative action. That's why Africans say "it takes a village to raise a child" - because in their culture, their daddies sure as hell won't! :crackup:

But what it REALLY BOILS DOWN TO on an individual basis though is WHAT TYPE OF MAN the woman chooses to get knocked up by. A stable, responsible provider or a K-Fed playa who cares about no one but himself. Either one is fine, but if you choose door #2, don't bych about him not being a good dad. You knew what you were in for. You can't turn a ho into a housewife...and you can't turn a playa into father knows best, either.

 

[kyphan]

Just to make it clear - my point was that it's not the end of the world for men, and while I think it was in poor taste for him to state he'd help with college and then back out of a year's worth of help, I agree with Vulpine as to psychologically what could be going through his head and what she should/could have done with that money.

I wanted to go to a private college and therefore I have a decent amount of student loans. My parents refused to foot the whole bill, and the only reason I went is because I got a nice scholarship. I probably could have gone to a state college without a dime coming out of my personal pocket. I'm not sure if her daughters have any student loans, but they should IMHO if the parents cannot easily make the payments (responsibility!).

 

[Latinoman]

Just to make it clear - my point was that it's not the end of the world for men, and while I think it was in poor taste for him to state he'd help with college and then back out of a year's worth of help, I agree with Vulpine as to psychologically what could be going through his head and what she should/could have done with that money.

I wanted to go to a private college and therefore I have a decent amount of student loans. My parents refused to foot the whole bill, and the only reason I went is because I got a nice scholarship. I probably could have gone to a state college without a dime coming out of my personal pocket. I'm not sure if her daughters have any student loans, but they should IMHO if the parents cannot easily make the payments (responsibility!).

It builds character on the person. She will TRULY value her education.

Now, I am not advocating toward parents NOT wanting to pay for their children college education. I truly believe that's NOT an obligation.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Putting a child through college should NOT be a parent obligation. I put myself through college. My ex-wife did the same. Same with my girlfriend....

That is so old school but you are absolutely right! :rockon: Whatever happened to kids getting grants, loans and scholarships on their own? Parents are damn near emptying their retirement accounts to pay for college and then a lot of times the kids move back in with their parents after they graduate!!! WTF??!!! It's madness I tell 'ya!!! :crazy:

 

[wayword]

That is so old school but you are absolutely right! :rockon: Whatever happened to kids getting grants, loans and scholarships on their own? Parents are damn near emptying their retirement accounts to pay for college and then a lot of times the kids move back in with their parents after they graduate!!! WTF??!!! It's madness I tell 'ya!!! :crazy:

Well, an 18-yo kid will have little savings and can't make a decent wage with no college degree. So, even with a bunch of scholarships, he'll still be in the hole. Because not only does he have college tuition/textbooks to pay for - but also all of a sudden room & board, transportation & food. The survival costs alone will be about $1000/mo plus the initial cost of a car. And being a full-time student will leave him with little time to work for 4 years. College ain't cheap and is a huge investment in time & money.

So, a college kid really needs to get scholarships AND also parental help or loans at that stage in life. But if he gets help from his parents, he should honestly consider eventually paying it back and also taking care of his parents real well. I got some full rides due to my extremely high test scores...but still there's no way I could have afforded all the sheer survival costs alone.

 

[Latinoman]

That is so old school but you are absolutely right! :rockon: Whatever happened to kids getting grants, loans and scholarships on their own? Parents are damn near emptying their retirement accounts to pay for college and then a lot of times the kids move back in with their parents after they graduate!!! WTF??!!! It's madness I tell 'ya!!! :crazy:

EXACTLY!

 

[Latinoman]

More on this topic.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115632

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Well, an 18-yo kid will have little savings and can't make a decent wage with no college degree. So, even with a bunch of scholarships, he'll still be in the hole. Because not only does he have college tuition/textbooks to pay for - but also all of a sudden room & board, transportation & food. The survival costs alone will be about $1000/mo plus the initial cost of a car. And being a full-time student will leave him with little time to work for 4 years. College ain't cheap and is a huge investment in time & money.

So, a college kid really needs to get scholarships AND also parental help or loans at that stage in life. But if he gets help from his parents, he should honestly consider eventually paying it back and also taking care of his parents real well. I got some full rides due to my extremely high test scores...but still there's no way I could have afforded all the sheer survival costs alone.

I have to disagree. Even though college costs have gone up, student have more access to funds now than they did 20 years ago. People from my high school graduating class (myself included) did very well both securing funding and decent paying jobs during and after college.

Me, I was earning $40k by my sophomore year, given I had worked in my industry for two years prior to college (gotta love those public school work study programs). I think the problem is that kids today don't think about working until after they finish school and expect huge salaries without having any experience. They sure have a ton of growing up to do.

FYI, the worse thing that a student can do is use their parents to secure college funding. They are then limited by their parent's earnings. The parents make too much money to qualify for many grants yet they make enough to have to pay for at least a portion of their child's education.

If these kids would just leave home and identify themselves as independent students they would have a would of financial options available to them. Heaven forbid that they were good students in school, they can make a killing!

I had my step daughter start applying for grants and scholarships at the end of her sophomore year of high school. By the time she graduated she had already secured enough financing for four years of college including books and lodging.

She didn't stop there, in college she secured funding for her graduate program which she is in now. The cost to me? Checking to make sure that she kept her grades up in high school and teaching her how to be self sufficient. Well worth my time and effort since it kept her fingers out of my wallet.

 

[Latinoman]

Can any student UNDER 21 be considered "independent"? If so...how?

 

[kyphan]

Well, an 18-yo kid will have little savings and can't make a decent wage with no college degree. So, even with a bunch of scholarships, he'll still be in the hole. Because not only does he have college tuition/textbooks to pay for - but also all of a sudden room & board, transportation & food. The survival costs alone will be about $1000/mo plus the initial cost of a car. And being a full-time student will leave him with little time to work for 4 years. College ain't cheap and is a huge investment in time & money.

So, a college kid really needs to get scholarships AND also parental help or loans at that stage in life. But if he gets help from his parents, he should honestly consider eventually paying it back and also taking care of his parents real well. I got some full rides due to my extremely high test scores...but still there's no way I could have afforded all the sheer survival costs alone.

In many states a student can go to a state college or university for extremely little money. Often times he/she can commute as well to cut back on expenses. I worked part-time throughout college and made enough to cover my car insurance, gas, and "beer money." I'd save up all summer long, too.

The other option, which is really a test of the student, is to attend a community college, get excellent grades, and then transfer after two years. If a student works their butt off they can get a great scholarship when transferring and go to a great college. There are ways to do it with little or no help from parents.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Can any student UNDER 21 be considered "independent"? If so...how?

It's VERY easy. All you need to do is be self sufficient. In other words, not allow the parents to support the child (this includes using the child as a tax deduction). It's best if the child has a separate home address but if they live at home they should pay some form of rent AND (this is most important) NOT divulge ANY parental information. That's it, no special forms to fill out (except standard tax forms, and I suggest using the long form to gather even more benefits).