A lurker's perspective on why 90% of the content here is redundant.

[ConfusedHSer]

I don't mean to be condescending or sound pretentious in any way.

I've been looking at this stuff for about a year and a half, and I've lately been thinking that most of the content here is quite useful in theory, but pointless in practice. Most of the posts here seem to be gimmicks to get women typically out of your league using "kino", "negs", "alpha behavior" etc. So let's say this stuff allows you to achieve a relationship with a "HB 9" or someone out of your league, then what? What's the final outcome, just sex? Seems to me like a pointless endeavor (although sex is great, it's often regarded as the holy grail of life on these forums). The social convention is that after an relationship, you mate and reproduce with your partner and live happily in monogamy. What happens when your mate realizes that your only married based off of some advice from the internet?

What I think actually IS useful is information on taking women off the pedestal and viewing them as members of our species, not characterized by having magical flaps of skin. In my opinion all of this stuff is useless on the long run, it simply grants some early satisfaction.

What we SHOULD be focusing on is bringing ourselves up to a social equilibrium with your potential mate, and secure your position as someone dependable in the future. In other words, stop looking for the magic potion, and simply improve yourself so they aren't out of your league anymore. These tactics should then come naturally, if anything the only three pieces of advice that's viable in my opinion on this website (with my own little adaptation and opinion) is:

1. Don't smother the girl. Screw this "don't be eager", if you weren't out of her league you wouldn't be eager naturally. If the aforementioned league is "low", then your partner won't care what you do and would be happy to not die alone.
2. Put yourself ahead of everything, but don't "wait 3 days to call her back" or "let her call go to voicemail". What's the point of playing mind games all the time? If your available take the call, if your busy don't. If your never busy, then you need to rethink your life.
3. Don't crawl back to your exes, and don't burn any bridges. You never know when your platonic relationships will benefit you. Even if they don't they could never hurt.

So there's my two cents on this entire website, to be honest I only read the "anything else" section and the "fitness" section now. A lot of the guys here are treating relationships like tactical warfare. Do what makes you happy, personally if I had to think twice about what I do around girls, I'd be pretty unhappy.

/Discuss

 

[st_99]

you're right in that most everything on this site is redundent but thats fine, some stuff is a fun read when you're bored.

the bottom line is attitude and the right frame of mind is everything. thats kind of vague but it goes something like this... after getting kicked around and doing everything wrong for a while you start to develop the right mind frame to interact with girls. you calm down, understand that any girl is replaceable and have enough self esteem and pride in yourself to never allow some chick to have any serious control of your emotions and well being.

thats when getting girls just becomes something you do and not some huge mysterious deal. you don't need any tips and tricks (not that there is anything wrong with that) but its all natural and thats the most important thing.

 

[Scars]

I don't mean to be condescending or sound pretentious in any way.

I've been looking at this stuff for about a year and a half, and I've lately been thinking that most of the content here is quite useful in theory, but pointless in practice. Most of the posts here seem to be gimmicks to get women typically out of your league using "kino", "negs", "alpha behavior" etc. So let's say this stuff allows you to achieve a relationship with a "HB 9" or someone out of your league, then what? What's the final outcome, just sex? Seems to me like a pointless endeavor (although sex is great, it's often regarded as the holy grail of life on these forums). The social convention is that after an relationship, you mate and reproduce with your partner and live happily in monogamy. What happens when your mate realizes that your only married based off of some advice from the internet?

People will always date within their league. A man who is a 5 in looks will generally have a hard time dating a HB9 no matter how many seduction techniques he learns unless he is extremely wealthy or powerful. It's just the nature of the game. PUA's want you to believe you can have any girl you want because they are trying to SELL you some technique. People will generally date 1 point above or below themselves, and that's just the way it is.

Some people have different motives. The original site/forum/DJ Bible was designed to teach you how to get woman through self-improvement. The act of bettering yourself and being a man and having the woman come to YOU. The goal is to adopt the gimmicks into your personality so they no longer become gimmicks, it becomes who you are and you hit a point where it becomes NATURAL.

However, for a lot of us (myself included) the more we "adopted" these traits the more ugly the truth really became. You start to learn that that all woman are governed by the same exact rules. That is the first step into what we like to call the "Matrix". From there you realize just how easy it is to pick up woman. Once the techniques start working it becomes a gold mine and you start to learn other things on top of them through trial and error, and develop your own theories. A big lesson I learned many times was when I was happily in a relationship I would often leave the forum, I thought I didn't need it anymore. Soon enough I had slipped back into my nice guy ways and would find myself here again back to square one. You start to realize that "love" just becomes a mathematical equation and if you aren't on top of your game she will "fall out of love" with you. A sad truth to acquire.

From there things get even uglier. You start to realize that the same techniques you used to steal another woman away from her boyfriend can also be used against you as well. You see first hand that these techniques can be adopted by anyone, and that whoever layed down the right formula was the winner. You come to the conclusion that woman "think with their feelings", and they are ALL governed by this law. Suddenly, relationships/marriage/monogamy is no longer the ideal because deep down in the back of your mind you know that these same techniques can be used and exploited by someone else. All you have to do is override her logical mind with her emotions. This is why woman cheat. It doesn't mean they won't feel bad about it, but at that given moment they didn't care, it FELT like the right thing to do in that given MOMENT in time. Once you swallow this pill, you really have no desire to seek out a monogamist relationship ever again.

The forum is sort of divided into two groups. You have the morality crew DJs who will tell you to adopt the techniques and seek out a monogamist relationship and tell you not to cheat. Then you have the Rational male/Matrix theory guys who will generally tell you that seeking out a relationship is stupid within itself, unless you have come to full terms with the errors in woman's "logic" and can embrace it for your own selfish benefit. The idea is to play the same game that woman are playing. Take a look at my replies to the recent thread "Guilt from cheating on LTR."

Think back on your AFC days, when a girl broke up with you out of nowhere and suddenly she was dating some other guy. Do you think she met him 2 days after the break up? No, she was talking to him while you guys were still together. Be aware of the possibilities, and pretty much.. DATE like a woman. Have the same selfish attitude, fair is fair.

This is the mindset that I strongly advice men here to embrace, but some are still stuck on the fairy tale stories about love and romance. They haven't opened their eyes to the truth yet.

What I think actually IS useful is information on taking women off the pedestal and viewing them as members of our species, not characterized by having magical flaps of skin. In my opinion all of this stuff is useless on the long run, it simply grants some early satisfaction.

Agreed. But I take it one step further. Taking them off the pedestal is the first step, but you must also realize that woman are not perfect angels either. They WILL cheat on you if given the opportunity with a high value male and they know they can get away with it. Some guys will read this comment and it'll put a huge knot in the stomach because they KNOW it's true but they still don't want to believe it. They have adopted the "ignorance is bliss attitude", they are afraid of the Matrix.

What we SHOULD be focusing on is bringing ourselves up to a social equilibrium with your potential mate, and secure your position as someone dependable in the future. In other words, stop looking for the magic potion, and simply improve yourself so they aren't out of your league anymore.

I agree on self-improvement, as it is the general skeleton of this website. But isn't "bringing ourselves up to a social equilibrium with your potential mate" putting them on the pedestal? I think rather than trying to "level up" with my potential mate I should improve for my own selfish reasons.

These tactics should then come naturally, if anything the only three pieces of advice that's viable in my opinion on this website (with my own little adaptation and opinion) is:

1. Don't smother the girl. Screw this "don't be eager", if you weren't out of her league you wouldn't be eager naturally. If the aforementioned league is "low", then your partner won't care what you do and would be happy to not die alone.
2. Put yourself ahead of everything, but don't "wait 3 days to call her back" or "let her call go to voicemail". What's the point of playing mind games all the time? If your available take the call, if your busy don't. If your never busy, then you need to rethink your life.
3. Don't crawl back to your exes, and don't burn any bridges. You never know when your platonic relationships will benefit you. Even if they don't they could never hurt.

So there's my two cents on this entire website, to be honest I only read the "anything else" section and the "fitness" section now. A lot of the guys here are treating relationships like tactical warfare. Do what makes you happy, personally if I had to think twice about what I do around girls, I'd be pretty unhappy.

/Discuss

If this is all you feel you need to last in the mating game then right on my friend. In essence you are simply saying don't be needy and be NATURAL. Which I agree. But I don't think it's the end-all answer. A lot of the content here is redundant because it's misleading. I think we need to be more aware of the truth. What's the point of improving yourself and building up your kingdom just to watch some woman come in a shatter it all in seconds? We need focus on developing a more hard/calloused attitude. Some people might think it's bitter, I just call it being realistic and it will save a lot of people from heartache and drama in the long run.

-Scars

 

[ArcBound]

You say everything is redundant on the website then you proceed to post 3 redundant tips which you should have seen several times if you've even lurked a month

 

[Johnny_Kage]

This post is very thought-provoking, Scars' contribution in particular. I've been in The Game for a while now (about 4 years) and even before that, I was never bad with women. Here's my take on it.

People will always date within their league. A man who is a 5 in looks will generally have a hard time dating a HB9 no matter how many seduction techniques he learns unless he is extremely wealthy or powerful. It's just the nature of the game. PUA's want you to believe you can have any girl you want because they are trying to SELL you some technique. People will generally date 1 point above or below themselves, and that's just the way it is.

I REALLY REALLY want to agree with this, but I've seen way too many examples to contradict it (especially if you're talking about looks alone). Just off the top of my head right now, in fact, I could think of hot girls that I know that are in relationships with AFC guys that are not good looking at all.

While I do acknowledge that one cannot simply have every girl that they want, they definitely CAN get girls that are (by this standard) out of their league.

Some people have different motives. The original site/forum/DJ Bible was designed to teach you how to get woman through self-improvement. The act of bettering yourself and being a man and having the woman come to YOU. The goal is to adopt the gimmicks into your personality so they no longer become gimmicks, it becomes who you are and you hit a point where it becomes NATURAL.

I never realized that The Game changed.

However, for a lot of us (myself included) the more we "adopted" these traits the more ugly the truth really became. You start to learn that that all woman are governed by the same exact rules. That is the first step into what we like to call the "Matrix". From there you realize just how easy it is to pick up woman. Once the techniques start working it becomes a gold mine and you start to learn other things on top of them through trial and error, and develop your own theories.

Definitely true. This is the process of getting more experience, learning, and changing your perspective, which is the essence of self-improvement.

A big lesson I learned many times was when I was happily in a relationship I would often leave the forum, I thought I didn't need it anymore. Soon enough I had slipped back into my nice guy ways and would find myself here again back to square one. You start to realize that "love" just becomes a mathematical equation and if you aren't on top of your game she will "fall out of love" with you. A sad truth to acquire.

Damn man. I'm sorry that you feel this way. You don't seem to realize that relationships, too, are a skill. Just like getting the girls, it requires skills to keep them. It requires an internal change in you.

I definitely hear you, though. I've had my fair share of bad experiences in relationships. But I look at them as battle scars. I'm just learning. So no worries.

Also, love isn't a mathematical equation. In fact, if you want to get technical, it's actually a physiologic response that the girl creates herself and simply directs at you. Although, I readily admit that there's so much we (human) don't know about the world and ourselves, that even what I said is a bold statement.

But I'll spare the philosophical arguments for now....

From there things get even uglier. You start to realize that the same techniques you used to steal another woman away from her boyfriend can also be used against you as well. You see first hand that these techniques can be adopted by anyone, and that whoever layed down the right formula was the winner. You come to the conclusion that woman "think with their feelings", and they are ALL governed by this law. Suddenly, relationships/marriage/monogamy is no longer the ideal because deep down in the back of your mind you know that these same techniques can be used and exploited by someone else. All you have to do is override her logical mind with her emotions. This is why woman cheat. It doesn't mean they won't feel bad about it, but at that given moment they didn't care, it FELT like the right thing to do in that given MOMENT in time. Once you swallow this pill, you really have no desire to seek out a monogamist relationship ever again.

You really think that every girl cheats on their boyfriends/husbands? Because that has certainly NOT been the case in my experience.

The forum is sort of divided into two groups. You have the morality crew DJs who will tell you to adopt the techniques and seek out a monogamist relationship and tell you not to cheat. Then you have the Rational male/Matrix theory guys who will generally tell you that seeking out a relationship is stupid within itself, unless you have come to full terms with the errors in woman's "logic" and can embrace it for your own selfish benefit. The idea is to play the same game that woman are playing. Take a look at my replies to the recent thread "Guilt from cheating on LTR."

There are plenty of schools of thought on this, but, yes, I guess it boils down to these generalities.

This is the mindset that I strongly advice men here to embrace, but some are still stuck on the fairy tale stories about love and romance. They haven't opened their eyes to the truth yet.

Like you said somewhere here, girls are only human, just like guys. So you believe that some guys (even on here, a pickup forum) won't cheat on their boyfriends, but that EVERY SINGLE girl in the world would cheat on their boyfriends if the opportunity came along for a "higher value" male? Hmmmm....

Agreed. But I take it one step further. Taking them off the pedestal is the first step, but you must also realize that woman are not perfect angels either. They WILL cheat on you if given the opportunity with a high value male and they know they can get away with it. Some guys will read this comment and it'll put a huge knot in the stomach because they KNOW it's true but they still don't want to believe it. They have adopted the "ignorance is bliss attitude", they are afraid of the Matrix.

Yes, girls are people.

I agree on self-improvement, as it is the general skeleton of this website. But isn't "bringing ourselves up to a social equilibrium with your potential mate" putting them on the pedestal? I think rather than trying to "level up" with my potential mate I should improve for my own selfish reasons.

Yes, everybody in the world is selfish, even philanthropists, who donate their money and time for others because it makes THEMSELVES feel good.

If this is all you feel you need to last in the mating game then right on my friend. In essence you are simply saying don't be needy and be NATURAL. Which I agree. But I don't think it's the end-all answer. A lot of the content here is redundant because it's misleading. I think we need to be more aware of the truth. What's the point of improving yourself and building up your kingdom just to watch some woman come in a shatter it all in seconds? We need focus on developing a more hard/calloused attitude. Some people might think it's bitter, I just call it being realistic and it will save a lot of people from heartache and drama in the long run.

It just sounds to me that you've have some really negative experiences with women and relationships. I used to think just like that, in fact. I used to call it "realism." But the bottom line is what's "real" is what you perceive to be real.

And you are right, some girls will cheat on their husbands, play the genetic gene pool thing, have babies by other men, etc. But some won't.

Also, I should say that I'm no activist, monogamy *****, or Disney lover, for that matter. I date plenty of girls at the same time and haven't had a monogamous relationship in years, nor would I push one on anybody.

I just think that you're mis-characterizing women a bit. To the best of my knowledge and experiences, the world is not how you say it is. And, thus, my response.

:rockon:

 

[Scars]

I REALLY REALLY want to agree with this, but I've seen way too many examples to contradict it (especially if you're talking about looks alone). Just off the top of my head right now, in fact, I could think of hot girls that I know that are in relationships with AFC guys that are not good looking at all.

While I do acknowledge that one cannot simply have every girl that they want, they definitely CAN get girls that are (by this standard) out of their league.

The whole "looks" debate will be a never ending battle on this board, simply because a lot of men here can't accept the fact that they have average looks. Occasionally you might snag a hottie; I have done it myself. But it will never be an extreme attractive difference. Like I said, maybe a point above or below you because we naturally date within our league. The guys you see who are AFC and dating attractive woman generally have money or are being used for some financial/emotional benefit. Don't forget that a lot of woman manipulate men for their own selfish needs, just like we should also learn to do ourselves. Girls don't just date AFC men. They want alphas. So if you see this then chances are you are looking at a gold digger. Another harsh reality is that woman will sometimes date/fvck a certain guy to get back at said ex-alpha boyfriend. It happens all the time.

I never realized that The Game changed.

The Game is the first step. You learn to utilize said skills to attract and seduce woman, but once you get more advanced you quickly learn that the world isn't always rainbows, puppies, and balloons. I, and others have simply just adapted to the times. If you want factual proof go take a look at the national divorce census. Divorce rates are higher than ever, and it's generally the men getting fvcked. These woman will take your house, car, and kids (that she makes you pay child support for) and not even think twice about it. These woman will destroy your life. We men put so much on the line and give up our independence and sexual freedom all for what, "love?" To me it seems like the risk is too much for such little gain. Do we really need "love?" Do we really need to be in a monogamist relationship to be "happy?" The whole idea seems stupid. Last I checked the game was about attracting and seducing woman. Not trying to rush into some relationship that requires you to give up everything, INCLUDING your own happiness. Life-long loving relationships are a thing of the past. Maybe in the 50s when woman still knew their place, but now they have "independence". They don't "NEED" men. The quality of pvssy keeps going down while the price goes up. Why would I want to settle down with some piece of trash? That is not "living the dream."

Damn man. I'm sorry that you feel this way. You don't seem to realize that relationships, too, are a skill. Just like getting the girls, it requires skills to keep them. It requires an internal change in you.

Precisely my point. I have been in long term relationships before, I know how it works. And you know what conclusion I came to? I think it's pretty sad that I have to "change myself" or have a certain attitude/follow a set of rules just to keep her. I have to NOT love her, in order for her to love me. What kind of relationship is that built off of? If you love someone, why do you have to be distant with them in order to keep them loving you? Why do some girls have to be repeatedly treated like sh!t by their man in order to feel "loved?" Why are girls always testing a man's alphaness? Why does she fall out of love with him if he falls short of the mark? A man loses his job because of the recession and is having difficult providing for his family. Instead of being emotionally supportive she decides to find a new boyfriend, get a divorce, and leave him with absolutely nothing. Is that love? They aren't in love with US, they're in love with the bullsh!t game we feed them everyday. If you could truly be "yourself" around a woman you were in love with she would leave you. Because you would want to tell her exactly how you feel, which we all know is a big no-no. Instead, we have to act like we love them less than we actually do. Really, why do we subject ourselves to this? It seems like a huge waste of time.

Hiding your "love" isn't game at all. It's probably the most unnatural thing you could ever do. That's why I use game to lay chicks and nothing more.

I definitely hear you, though. I've had my fair share of bad experiences in relationships. But I look at them as battle scars. I'm just learning. So no worries.

Look at my username man. I know what it's like to learn from experience. I try not to dwell on the past, but it's always going to be in the back of my mind, and it's ultimately molded me into the person I am today. I am not ashamed of it.

Also, love isn't a mathematical equation. In fact, if you want to get technical, it's actually a physiologic response that the girl creates herself and simply directs at you. Although, I readily admit that there's so much we (human) don't know about the world and ourselves, that even what I said is a bold statement.

How is it not?

Treat a girl like sh!t = she will love you.
Give her less attention than she gives you = she will love you.
Be the alpha male = she will love you.

As human's we like to think that there are no rules to love and don't understand why it happens, but we do. It's psychology, it's mathematics, it's timing, it's sensory, and it has variables, in essence it's pretty much a SCIENCE. It's simply released chemicals in the brain. If you can release those chemicals in one woman's brain, why can't another man come a long do the exact same thing? The truth is, you ARE NOT special. Woman are all governed by the same law, that's why all these gimmicks work.

You really think that every girl cheats on their boyfriends/husbands?

Yes and no.

Some woman don't have the option to do so because they have no more value. They spent all these years ****-hopping then got old and lost their looks. They settled with some man they don't really "love", and abuse him financially and emotionally. This is the typical modern America marriage right here.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that woman cheat. If you have a girlfriend/wife, chances are she already has. Either emotionally or physically. She always has her eyes open to new possibilities, it's only natural and it's part of one of her "governed laws" that is programmed into her at birth.

Because that has certainly NOT been the case in my experience.

You probably just never found out yet.

Like you said somewhere here, girls are only human, just like guys. So you believe that some guys (even on here, a pickup forum) won't cheat on their boyfriends, but that EVERY SINGLE girl in the world would cheat on their boyfriends if the opportunity came along for a "higher value" male? Hmmmm....

If they knew they could get away with it, most definitely. Some girls put themselves in these situations more than others. This is what we refer to as "wh0res." Woman who often go out clubbing, have a lot of guy friends, speak to exs, do drugs etc.. put themselves in vulnerable situations and have more opportunities to cheat because this leaves the door open for her emotions to override her logic. For men who want to seek relationships I would advice to stay away from these woman completely. But, even girls who aren't your typical "slvt" can also cheat on you. It may take years for the opportunity to arise but don't dismiss the fact that it can happen. Some couples never find out about each others affairs and live happily.

Yes, everybody in the world is selfish, even philanthropists, who donate their money and time for others because it makes THEMSELVES feel good.

I also believe this theory. Not a single person on this world isn't selfish. No one will ever do a "good-deed" without expecting something in return whether it's materialistic, financial, sexual, or emotional.

It just sounds to me that you've have some really negative experiences with women and relationships. I used to think just like that, in fact. I used to call it "realism." But the bottom line is what's "real" is what you perceive to be real.

And you are right, some girls will cheat on their husbands, play the genetic gene pool thing, have babies by other men, etc. But some won't.

I would say about %99.9 of them will cheat, do cheat, or have thought about cheating. I don't like those odds. But if you want to take a spin, be my guest.

Also, I should say that I'm no activist, monogamy *****, or Disney lover, for that matter. I date plenty of girls at the same time and haven't had a monogamous relationship in years, nor would I push one on anybody.

I just think that you're mis-characterizing women a bit. To the best of my knowledge and experiences, the world is not how you say it is. And, thus, my response.

:rockon:

If you opened your eyes you would see this is EXACTLY how it is. Woman are not innocent angels. Relationships generally don't last nowadays. Woman are greedy and manipulative, and will spare you but not your feelings. They really don't care, so why should we? I say we embrace the same concept and be just as ruthless. Fair is fair.

-Scars

 

[Sh0t]

the ads were the best thing in this thread

 

[BettorOffSingle]

I don't mean to be condescending or sound pretentious in any way.

Which usually means that’s exactly what you’ll sound like. I mean, hey, most guys digest all that theory, and here you are simplifying everything with one post!

I've been looking at this stuff for about a year and a half, and I've lately been thinking that most of the content here is quite useful in theory, but pointless in practice.

I’ve been DEVELOPING much of the theory used by many in the “community” for THIRTY YEARS, and I find much of it misinterpreted by men who want easy answers, and marketers who want to sell product yet don’t have original ideas, so they butcher mine. A whole year and a half? REALLY!? WOW!

Most of the posts here seem to be gimmicks to get women typically out of your league using "kino", "negs", "alpha behavior" etc. So let's say this stuff allows you to achieve a relationship with a "HB 9" or someone out of your league, then what? What's the final outcome, just sex? Seems to me like a pointless endeavor (although sex is great, it's often regarded as the holy grail of life on these forums). The social convention is that after an relationship, you mate and reproduce with your partner and live happily in monogamy. What happens when your mate realizes that your only married based off of some advice from the internet?

She erases the sex from all recorded history because it is invalid? Sex may not be your “holy grail,” but for guys who NEVER get laid, even “tricking” a woman into bed is an improvement. Are you saying women are so stupid we need to protect them from their own instincts?
What is this concept of “league?” If it exists, it can be measured, precisely.

What I think actually IS useful is information on taking women off the pedestal and viewing them as members of our species, not characterized by having magical flaps of skin. In my opinion all of this stuff is useless on the long run, it simply grants some early satisfaction.

Just like interviewing techniques are useless in that they only GET you the job, rather than allow you to KEEP the job, as opposed to the guy who can’t even interview well.

What we SHOULD be focusing on is bringing ourselves up to a social equilibrium with your potential mate, and secure your position as someone dependable in the future.

Men SHOULD bend to YOUR world view? Interesting. All to get women, right?

In other words, stop looking for the magic potion, and simply improve yourself so they aren't out of your league anymore.

That’s biologically impossible, because men disqualify so many women based on looks. It’s like a game of musical chairs with one chair for every five guys. In fact, as more guys “improve” themselves, the more “average” ALL men become. Just like as more investors get more info, the market gets tougher to beat.
Now, in 1999 I offered the PIVOT technique as a “magic bullet,” something most “PUAs” thought was absurd, since it wasn’t “alpha.” A zillion lay reports later, it’s proven. Why should a man NOT use a powerful technique developed to help his game? Of course, since others stole that concept from me, I sat on my new theory for a decade to prevent that, and am only now beginning to get proper credit for developing what you are dismissing as unnecessary. I’d even venture to say you’ve just internalized the theory to the point where you don’t even realize how much of it you are using.

]quote] These tactics should then come naturally, if anything the only three pieces of advice that's viable in my opinion on this website (with my own little adaptation and opinion) is:
1. Don't smother the girl. Screw this "don't be eager", if you weren't out of her league you wouldn't be eager naturally. If the aforementioned league is "low", then your partner won't care what you do and would be happy to not die alone. [/quote]
Women judge men on BEHAVIOR more than anything else. Many have needs they will never admit, and it’s up to men to figure out what they are and how to meet them. “Don’t smother the girl” doesn’t really do much except state the obvious of what NOT to do.

2. Put yourself ahead of everything, but don't "wait 3 days to call her back" or "let her call go to voicemail". What's the point of playing mind games all the time? If your available take the call, if your busy don't. If your never busy, then you need to rethink your life.

But listen to internet strangers telling them how to live?

3. Don't crawl back to your exes, and don't burn any bridges. You never know when your platonic relationships will benefit you. Even if they don't they could never hurt.

I agree that LJBF is useful, but one-and-done and returning-fox are two bread-and-butter tactics. In fact, what you recommend is also a “game” of sorts.

So there's my two cents on this entire website, to be honest I only read the "anything else" section and the "fitness" section now. A lot of the guys here are treating relationships like tactical warfare. Do what makes you happy, personally if I had to think twice about what I do around girls, I'd be pretty unhappy.

If I had such low standards that I did NOT have to think of what to say or do around women, I’d be horrified.

 

[BettorOffSingle]

The whole "looks" debate will be a never ending battle on this board, simply because a lot of men here can't accept the fact that they have average looks. Occasionally you might snag a hottie; I have done it myself. But it will never be an extreme attractive difference. Like I said, maybe a point above or below you because we naturally date within our league. The guys you see who are AFC and dating attractive woman generally have money or are being used for some financial/emotional benefit. Don't forget that a lot of woman manipulate men for their own selfish needs, just like we should also learn to do ourselves. Girls don't just date AFC men. They want alphas. So if you see this then chances are you are looking at a gold digger. Another harsh reality is that woman will sometimes date/fvck a certain guy to get back at said ex-alpha boyfriend. It happens all the time.



The Game is the first step. You learn to utilize said skills to attract and seduce woman, but once you get more advanced you quickly learn that the world isn't always rainbows, puppies, and balloons. I, and others have simply just adapted to the times. If you want factual proof go take a look at the national divorce census. Divorce rates are higher than ever, and it's generally the men getting fvcked. These woman will take your house, car, and kids (that she makes you pay child support for) and not even think twice about it. These woman will destroy your life. We men put so much on the line and give up our independence and sexual freedom all for what, "love?" To me it seems like the risk is too much for such little gain. Do we really need "love?" Do we really need to be in a monogamist relationship to be "happy?" The whole idea seems stupid. Last I checked the game was about attracting and seducing woman. Not trying to rush into some relationship that requires you to give up everything, INCLUDING your own happiness. Life-long loving relationships are a thing of the past. Maybe in the 50s when woman still knew their place, but now they have "independence". They don't "NEED" men. The quality of pvssy keeps going down while the price goes up. Why would I want to settle down with some piece of trash? That is not "living the dream."



Precisely my point. I have been in long term relationships before, I know how it works. And you know what conclusion I came to? I think it's pretty sad that I have to "change myself" or have a certain attitude/follow a set of rules just to keep her. I have to NOT love her, in order for her to love me. What kind of relationship is that built off of? If you love someone, why do you have to be distant with them in order to keep them loving you? Why do some girls have to be repeatedly treated like sh!t by their man in order to feel "loved?" Why are girls always testing a man's alphaness? Why does she fall out of love with him if he falls short of the mark? A man loses his job because of the recession and is having difficult providing for his family. Instead of being emotionally supportive she decides to find a new boyfriend, get a divorce, and leave him with absolutely nothing. Is that love? They aren't in love with US, they're in love with the bullsh!t game we feed them everyday. If you could truly be "yourself" around a woman you were in love with she would leave you. Because you would want to tell her exactly how you feel, which we all know is a big no-no. Instead, we have to act like we love them less than we actually do. Really, why do we subject ourselves to this? It seems like a huge waste of time.

Hiding your "love" isn't game at all. It's probably the most unnatural thing you could ever do. That's why I use game to lay chicks and nothing more.



Look at my username man. I know what it's like to learn from experience. I try not to dwell on the past, but it's always going to be in the back of my mind, and it's ultimately molded me into the person I am today. I am not ashamed of it.



How is it not?

Treat a girl like sh!t = she will love you.
Give her less attention than she gives you = she will love you.
Be the alpha male = she will love you.

As human's we like to think that there are no rules to love and don't understand why it happens, but we do. It's psychology, it's mathematics, it's timing, it's sensory, and it has variables, in essence it's pretty much a SCIENCE. It's simply released chemicals in the brain. If you can release those chemicals in one woman's brain, why can't another man come a long do the exact same thing? The truth is, you ARE NOT special. Woman are all governed by the same law, that's why all these gimmicks work.



Yes and no.

Some woman don't have the option to do so because they have no more value. They spent all these years ****-hopping then got old and lost their looks. They settled with some man they don't really "love", and abuse him financially and emotionally. This is the typical modern America marriage right here.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that woman cheat. If you have a girlfriend/wife, chances are she already has. Either emotionally or physically. She always has her eyes open to new possibilities, it's only natural and it's part of one of her "governed laws" that is programmed into her at birth.




You probably just never found out yet.



If they knew they could get away with it, most definitely. Some girls put themselves in these situations more than others. This is what we refer to as "wh0res." Woman who often go out clubbing, have a lot of guy friends, speak to exs, do drugs etc.. put themselves in vulnerable situations and have more opportunities to cheat because this leaves the door open for her emotions to override her logic. For men who want to seek relationships I would advice to stay away from these woman completely. But, even girls who aren't your typical "slvt" can also cheat on you. It may take years for the opportunity to arise but don't dismiss the fact that it can happen. Some couples never find out about each others affairs and live happily.



I also believe this theory. Not a single person on this world isn't selfish. No one will ever do a "good-deed" without expecting something in return whether it's materialistic, financial, sexual, or emotional.



I would say about %99.9 of them will cheat, do cheat, or have thought about cheating. I don't like those odds. But if you want to take a spin, be my guest.



If you opened your eyes you would see this is EXACTLY how it is. Woman are not innocent angels. Relationships generally don't last nowadays. Woman are greedy and manipulative, and will spare you but not your feelings. They really don't care, so why should we? I say we embrace the same concept and be just as ruthless. Fair is fair.

-Scars

Not all women are ruthless and manipulative. Some actually value good men. The concept of the "better nice guy" eludes most nice guys, but I was a beta who used to routinely swipe women from OTHER BETAS. Alphas get 86 percent of the sex but risk DEATH to do it. Betas can munch just fine on the other 14 percent, usually the better women anyway.

It's a total MYTH that women don't like Betas. They MARRY them, and COMMIT to them. Many women act *****y to "alpha" men and "nice" to beta men thinking that they are speaking the man's language.

Just because YOUR women are worthless, game-playing, social-climbing *****s, don't assume all men have to dumpster-dive.

Also just because YOUR guru taught you something that lines HIS pockets, don't misake that or media populairity for actual truth with women.

I must say, the "community" men are extremely difficult to help. Most already know what they want to hear as advice, yet the fact that they are seeking it shows they have no clue how to evaluate it, so they use emotions in place of logic.

Your point on looks is absurd. Women judge men on BEHAVIOR. Hell, I was GREAT-looking in my prime yet needed more, and even as I aged and my looks went, it was my emotional understanding of women that got me farther than looks ever did.

Just because you can't see a conversational PUA in action, doesn't mean his words aren't overcoming what you consider an impossible "league" barrier.

Also, the basic tactic for less-attractive men is simple: find a woman who doesn't care, and don't break up with her.

 

[Scars]

Not all women are ruthless and manipulative. Some actually value good men. The concept of the "better nice guy" eludes most nice guys, but I was a beta who used to routinely swipe women from OTHER BETAS. Alphas get 86 percent of the sex but risk DEATH to do it. Betas can munch just fine on the other 14 percent, usually the better women anyway.

I think you're simply trying to rationalize to yourself right now. Betas may get lucky occasionally, but they will NEVER be first pick. They often have to be friends with the girl for years and are always getting sh!t on. They have to hear about how the assh0le who she is in love with is treating her like sh!t all the time, while he sits there and tries to explain to her that she can do so much better but she never listens. She LOVES the alpha because he is not some pvssified beta boy.

A battle of who can be the nicest beta boy huh? LOL, what a joke.

You're right, alphas do get most of the tail. But it's not an even division of 86/14 (like you say.) Meaning, the remaining 14 aren't ALWAYS "quality" either. Alphas are still banging these quality woman, a long with the insecure, BPD woman, strippers, wh0res, book worms etc.. They will forever get first pick. When a beta gets @$$ there is usual an ulterior motive or it's all she has available at the moment. These woman often fall under the term "insecure".

In the eyes of woman, betas are the perfect rebounds. A quick and easy way to get FAST validation. These relationships DO NOT last, and if they do they tend be very dysfunctional and manipulative.

It's a total MYTH that women don't like Betas. They MARRY them, and COMMIT to them. Many women act *****y to "alpha" men and "nice" to beta men thinking that they are speaking the man's language.

Woman marry them for financial support, or security. After a woman has banged all the alphas, has 2 children, and notices her looks starting to fade then a beta boy definitely has a chance.

Woman are "assh0les" to alphas because they are often testing how alpha they really are. It's a turn on for them, and it's how they distinguished the men from the boys.

Woman are nice to betas because they are harmless. She knows she can manipulate him in anyway, and knows he's too much of a pvssy to ever try any sexual advances on her. In essence, he is her little gay friend.

Just because YOUR women are worthless, game-playing, social-climbing *****s, don't assume all men have to dumpster-dive.

Where does one actually find a "quality" woman then? I'm actually quite curious of this.

Also just because YOUR guru taught you something that lines HIS pockets, don't misake that or media populairity for actual truth with women.

The evidence is all around us. All you have to do is open your eyes. Do you not agree with the statement that society and the media promotes sexual independence? Does it not make the man look small and the woman superior to us? Look at the songs on the radio, the TV shows you watch, movies, and even everyday encounters with peers. Woman's slvtty behavior is now socially acceptable because we let it get that way. Now we have to deal with the consequences.

I must say, the "community" men are extremely difficult to help. Most already know what they want to hear as advice, yet the fact that they are seeking it shows they have no clue how to evaluate it, so they use emotions in place of logic.

This is the quality of woman and AFC beta boys. If you are implying this about me then I don't really understand. Because for the most part I've backed my statements up with facts. It's no secret that divorce rates are higher than ever. It's not secret that we have TV shows like "To Catch a Cheater" because affairs/unfaithfulness is our ENTERTAINMENT. It's no secret we have artists like Ke$ha and Lady Gaga teaching girls at a young age to be promiscuous. It's no secret we have TV shows like Jersey Shore that make woman believe that slvtty/immature behavior is acceptable. All you have to do is open your eyes.

Your point on looks is absurd. Women judge men on BEHAVIOR. Hell, I was GREAT-looking in my prime yet needed more, and even as I aged and my looks went, it was my emotional understanding of women that got me farther than looks ever did.

So your nice guy beta behavior worked for you? Right on man. Enjoy that last 14%! Don't let it run you broke.

Just because you can't see a conversational PUA in action, doesn't mean his words aren't overcoming what you consider an impossible "league" barrier.

Also, the basic tactic for less-attractive men is simple: find a woman who doesn't care, and don't break up with her.

I don't see how these two statements coincide. A less-attractive man has a better chance working on his career and maintaining a nice level of status/wealth to attract hotter woman than just sitting around waiting, settling for whatever he can do get and "hope" he doesn't get broken up with. That sounds like a miserable relationship and a sure-fire way to get fvcked.

-Scars

 

[crazyboy]

The content is redundant because guys come here and ask the same damn question all the time. We have to give the same answer all the time.

 

[BettorOffSingle]

Rather than respond point by point to what Scars posted, I can just say this:

1. you'd crap your pants before ever talking like that to my face. Heck, real men don't hide behind the monitor or a pseudonym.

2. Betas get the BETTER women, not the game-playing, social-climbing bar trash that alphas settle for. If you factor out the alpha's lower standards, the beta actually does better.

3. Alphas (or in your case, ALPHALPHAS) don't get first pick, unless you want to call women like SHBBartender (from my book), SHBTakeout, SHBPolitics, SHBSurfer, or SHBDancer (the Tisch NYU student dancer who tried to hunt me down at the Washington Square Park chess tables for two weeks, among other things) "leftovers." Compared to the bleached-blonde bar sluts, I'll stick with the "14 percent."

4. Your world view applies to a specific SUBSET of women: bar sluts, social-climbers, game-players, and really messed up women. A woman like LE CLUB friom my book was so PUA-immune I couldn't even describe it. To these women, what you call "betas" ARE the "alphas" to them, the REAL MEN, the ones who don't play games, don't engage in fake chest-thumping, and who don't put down decent men as "***** boys."

5. Being friends with one woman does NOT preclude the Beta from focking other women.

YOUR world may be populated with garbage women, but don't speak for everything.

Oh, and telling men to work on career, status, etc. is about as BETA as it gets. REAL ALPHAs (I've been one, gave it up after a while) don't need that stuff. They get laid even when HOMELESS. I once had a chick on AOL I was dominating let me use her account at $2.95 an hour to hit on other chicks. How "beta" is that?

Things like hypnosis, massage, d/s, and other VERY advanced sexual gimmicks are what separated me from other betas. Knowing I was intelligent, could carry on a good conversation, and could rock their world in bed made me IRRESISTIBLE to some super-hot women, I'm talking 9.5 and up, and anything below an 8.5 or so (what alphas call the "best women" what a joke) were EMPTY-NETTERS.

Once the beta learns to avoid being exploited, by things like ONEITIS, he has it so far over the alpha that it's not even funny.

Where does a beta find quality women? In my FREE book, I outlined over a hundred different "live" targets I met, most of whom were exceptionally hot. Anyone who wants to konw how I met them can read.

I met "Le Club" when she was 14 and I was 20, staying at her home for a chess tournament (her dad was a big fan of the game and her brother played). Did nothing with her for FOUR years, and you know what? Had I done what I should have done and MARRIED her (she offered a relationship that I did not accept quickly enough, but we did date several times), it would have been worth what would have been a SIX year wait. Why so impatient? It's not like I whacked off in a closet while waiting her out.

Heck, if "alphas" ruled the world like you said, they wouldn't be complaining abhout that "AFC borefriend." You say we get them on the "rebound" as if you were the one who took their virginity. Oh wait, in LE CLUB's case I had that option too. How'd I meet Kate? At college. The OTL? In my neighborhood. SHBDancer? Through a male friend (his girlfriend at the time), in my building. I called her a cab because he didn't have a phone, and remembered her name three weeks later.

SHBTakeout? Met her by ordering chicken salad at the place she was a cashier. She FOLLOWED me down Chestnut Street one Saturday morning but I was on my way to the World Open. SHBBartender? Upper East Side bar in Manhattan. NHBGroupie? Chess groupie met at the Manhattan Chess CLub (I was "first among betas" as an aspiring world champion). SHBSurfer? On AOL. From 1994-1996, AOL was my personal harem collection box, since I had figured out the game before others, and knew a secret way to chat for free.

I met SHBJulliard at high school, Cynthia Nixon in grade school, Diane Lane (never hit on her, cousin's g/f) in high school and at home. Met SHBLunch at school, in the elevator ont he way out. SHBSchool (my first kiss) one day APPEARED on the school steps as I was going home early each day.

Women simply do not fit your one-size-fits-all model, and the Beta incurs FAR less risk, for FAR greater women. If your "internet guru" told you otherwise, that doesn't make it reality. What sounds good online or in the media doesn't necessarily mean anything. Anyone who wants to duplicate my results can read the blueprint I laid out for exactly how to do this. One thing is for sure: I NEVER had to fight other men, AMOG anyone, deal with stupid sluts in bars, or do any of the stuff most "PUAs" think are necessary evils for getting women who were way below my standards to begin with.

Maybe you've never had a super-elite. If you had, I wouldn't even have to explain this to you. If you ever bothered to become FRIENDS with one, you might learn a great deal more about how they think.

 

[Scars]

I'm actually kind of over this whole debate. Your pseudo-threat at the beginning just kind of made me lose all respect for you. You have absolutely no control over your emotions and you're pretty much acting like a woman right now. Using personal attacks to get your way and using repeated self-delusions and rationalization to make yourself feel superior. I don't understand why anyone would want to read material from someone who has no control of himself.

If you say betas get the more quality girls, then right on. I'm actually pretty sure you're right. However, I don't really like dating fat/ugly girls and don't want to replace a sexually attractive body just for a girl with "personality". Maybe I'm just shallow?

Good luck promoting your book man.

-Scars

 

[Johnny_Kage]

But it will never be an extreme attractive difference. Like I said, maybe a point above or below you because we naturally date within our league.

Who ultimately determines "level of attractiveness?" And how is this point system created? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

The guys you see who are AFC and dating attractive woman generally have money or are being used for some financial/emotional benefit.

Again, not true. The references I made before to "seeing it" doesn't mean that I go to bars and notice these things. I have beta AFC friends that I know for a fact are not rich that date hot girls. It does happen.

Don't forget that a lot of woman manipulate men for their own selfish needs, just like we should also learn to do ourselves.

Humans manipulate humans. I'm sure you've manipulated people before too. You just didn't see it that way (because you backwards rationalized your actions....just like everybody else does, including girls....and myself).

The Game is the first step. You learn to utilize said skills to attract and seduce woman, but once you get more advanced you quickly learn that the world isn't always rainbows, puppies, and balloons.

No it's not. A little positivity certainly doesn't hurt though

I, and others have simply just adapted to the times. If you want factual proof go take a look at the national divorce census. Divorce rates are higher than ever, and it's generally the men getting fvcked.

So divorce rates are exclusively the woman's fault? It takes two to tango, brother. I'm no feminist or anything. But blaming women exclusively for the divorce rates is the same thing as a girl commenting on her fb status about how all guys suck.

These woman will take your house, car, and kids (that she makes you pay child support for) and not even think twice about it. These woman will destroy your life.

Possibly. Men do this too though. And I know people that were amicably divorced.

We men put so much on the line and give up our independence and sexual freedom all for what, "love?" To me it seems like the risk is too much for such little gain. Do we really need "love?" Do we really need to be in a monogamist relationship to be "happy?" The whole idea seems stupid.

I do agree that women are more biologically inclined to be in monogamous relationships. Still though, it really all depends on what you want.

Last I checked the game was about attracting and seducing woman.

One of the things that I've learned after going out with tons of PUA guys is that The Game means something different to different people. For me, it was very much about attractive and seducing women at the beginning. Now, it turned into general life improvement (including my career, my relationships, traveling, etc.). Other guys ONLY get into it to seduce women, but imho, these guys are short-changing themselves.

Not trying to rush into some relationship that requires you to give up everything, INCLUDING your own happiness.

Relationships DO make some people happy.

Life-long loving relationships are a thing of the past. Maybe in the 50s when woman still knew their place, but now they have "independence". They don't "NEED" men. The quality of pvssy keeps going down while the price goes up. Why would I want to settle down with some piece of trash? That is not "living the dream."

Damn. Some serious woman-hating here. I'm sorry for you, bro, that you can't appreciate women for the beautiful, wonderful creatures that they are

I have to NOT love her, in order for her to love me. What kind of relationship is that built off of? If you love someone, why do you have to be distant with them in order to keep them loving you? Why do some girls have to be repeatedly treated like sh!t by their man in order to feel "loved?"

Huh? People will love you if you show them love. Granted, you can't approach a random girl with flowers and expect them to fall in love with you just because you brought her flowers. But girls do love a guy that is there for them emotionally. For example, about 2 years ago, a girl I was dating went to the hospital with a serious health problem. She was away at school and had no one there to take care of her. So I drove out there and stayed with her at the hospital and basically took care of her until a family member could make it. Before that time, we were casual, but started to get more serious after. Why? Because she realized that I genuinely care about her. AND THAT MADE HER LIKE ME MORE.

A man loses his job because of the recession and is having difficult providing for his family. Instead of being emotionally supportive she decides to find a new boyfriend, get a divorce, and leave him with absolutely nothing.

I don't have a wife. But I've heard MANY stories that contradict this. In many situations, the woman sticks by the man because it behooves her to do so, both emotionally and financially. These are relationship testers that, if passed, make that relationship even stronger. It all depends on the people involved.

They aren't in love with US, they're in love with the bullsh!t game we feed them everyday. If you could truly be "yourself" around a woman you were in love with she would leave you.

Why not be yourself from the beginning then? Or become a person that naturally keeps the girls around?

Because you would want to tell her exactly how you feel, which we all know is a big no-no.

There's nothing wrong with telling a woman how you feel, providing it is in the right context and delivered the right way.

Look at my username man. I know what it's like to learn from experience. I try not to dwell on the past, but it's always going to be in the back of my mind, and it's ultimately molded me into the person I am today. I am not ashamed of it.

It sounds like all you're doing is dwelling on the past.

Treat a girl like sh!t = she will love you.

It sounds like you have some serious issues, man. Don't get me wrong, I've been there. And it does take a little while to break away from. You just have to keep going out. Once you start having positive experiences with women, you'll realize that this isn't true, for the most part. Of course, some girls like this. But some girls don't.

As human's we like to think that there are no rules to love and don't understand why it happens, but we do. It's psychology, it's mathematics, it's timing, it's sensory, and it has variables, in essence it's pretty much a SCIENCE. It's simply released chemicals in the brain. If you can release those chemicals in one woman's brain, why can't another man come a long do the exact same thing? The truth is, you ARE NOT special. Woman are all governed by the same law, that's why all these gimmicks work.

We're all special, brother

And love absolutely is a science. I agree. As far as how in depth the science goes, nobody knows. There's plenty of things that we (as a scientific community) don't understand about love and attraction, as well as many other aspects of the human body. How do I know this? Because I'm part of that community

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to wrap your head around the fact that woman cheat.

It's not. Women do cheat. Women have cheated on their boyfriends with me, in fact. I know intimately how bad it could get. But my point is that not every woman would cheat. In fact, many won't.

You probably just never found out yet.

Maybe I haven't. I'm only 24. I wouldn't presume to know everything about the world. And, if you're profile is correct, you're only 21

If they knew they could get away with it, most definitely.

This depends on the girl's character and value system, just as it does for guys.

For men who want to seek relationships I would advice to stay away from these woman completely.

Is this your professional opinion?

But, even girls who aren't your typical "slvt" can also cheat on you. It may take years for the opportunity to arise but don't dismiss the fact that it can happen. Some couples never find out about each others affairs and live happily.

Anything CAN happen. It doesn't mean it WILL though

I would say about %99.9 of them will cheat, do cheat, or have thought about cheating.

Hmmm....I'm curious to see where you got this data from.

If you opened your eyes you would see this is EXACTLY how it is. Woman are not innocent angels. Relationships generally don't last nowadays. Woman are greedy and manipulative, and will spare you but not your feelings. They really don't care, so why should we? I say we embrace the same concept and be just as ruthless. Fair is fair.

No one said that women are angels. Women are people and people are flawed. Everybody makes mistakes. And my eyes are open, man. Wide open. We've also probably had similar experiences. The difference between me and you is the way we've interpreted those experiences.

Psychology 101: You'll find a million examples to back up your basic beliefs and you'll discard just as many examples that contradict those beliefs. Since we're at different ends of the spectrum (and we both definitely do this since it is human nature), the truth most likely lies somewhere in between.

I hope you find your way, man! And I wish you the best of luck in finding whatever you're looking for.

 

[zekko]

Anything CAN happen. It doesn't mean it WILL though

Right. It's good that Scars is cynical, but he doesn't have to be quite as cynical as he thinks he does. It's true that any woman could cheat, but there are a few things you can do to at least decrease the likelihood:

1) Get a girl with good values, and be a man with values yourself (this allows you to be a role model, and encourages her to stick to her values. It's almost like being a parent). Unfortunately most girls are being brought up without values today, and most guys don't have values either for that matter. A guys without values wouldn't recognize a woman with values if she slapped him in the face.

2) Improve and build yourself up into a high value guy (this can take time). If you are one of the highest branches on the tree she's really going to have to look around to find a better branch to swing to.

3) If you're the type of guy who says "Sure, go ahead and hang out with your male friend, I'm so alpha I don't care", yeah chances are she's going to fvck him. Have some boundaries.

Most of the posts here seem to be gimmicks to get women typically out of your league using "kino", "negs", "alpha behavior" etc. So let's say this stuff allows you to achieve a relationship with a "HB 9" or someone out of your league, then what? What's the final outcome, just sex?

It looks like most guys here aren't interested in a relationship. Either they genuinely don't want one, or they have been scared away from them by this forum, or they have been convinced by this forum that they are not "cool" or manly unless they are banging multiple women.

It's good for young guys to spin plates (or play the field as they used to say in my day), because they get experience, learn about women, and learn what they want. But you can learn a lot about women from being in a LTR too.

 

[zekko]

Treat a girl like sh!t = she will love you.

This is one of the biggest lies being perpetuated on this forum.
It's true that this phenomenon exists, but mostly for women with abuse or self esteem issues.

Women will respond to a neg or some C&F because that is a playful type of thing, it's a type of flirting. If you take the funny out of the C&F it doesn't work as well. Straight up treating her bad is not the best way to go about attracting women, or keeping them either.

My girl knows I love her, but her interest hasn't dropped because I keep the frame and she knows I have boundaries. Granted, it's probably easier for me to keep the frame because we are only living together. I hate to say it, but these days when you get married you are giving a certain amount of your power away.

 

[Scars]

Zekko, I agree with you. But there is also a dramatic age difference between you and I. I'm namely speaking on behalf of MY generation. It's very hard to find a young girl with morals and was brought up traditionally nowadays. Nearly ever girl I know that is my age has some sort of psychological issue. Their parents got divorced when they were young, they were sexually/emotionally abused, they were neglected etc.. occasionally they get brought up in a normal family but they get influenced by these "misfits" or by the outside media. Girls these days are losing their virginity at 14, some even younger. There is a reason they have age of consent laws, because they are not fully mature and the effects of having sex at such a young age can be emotionally damaging. I've already stated that divorce rates are higher than ever, and this is how children these days self delude themselves into thinking that's what LOVE is. They learn from a young age that LOVE is fighting, breaking things, nagging each other everyday etc.. the woman realize quickly that they have the upper hand and through proper manipulation she can get anything she wants through a man. The current state of society is fvcked up, and it's only getting worse. I still want to believe there is a good girl out there for everyone, but I have not yet seen it. I look around me and all I see is dysfunction. Some of you older guys might have better luck at finding a girl that was brought up traditionally or has developed self morals but this is not the case for the rest of us. A "quality" girl is generally unattractive to me, because she was so sheltered that she never developed her femininity or tried that hard to develop her beauty because she didn't care about her looks, she didn't need them to get her way. And besides that, psychology proves that people who grew up sheltered tend to be prone to a "mid-life" crises. So that "quality" girl may be faithful up until her late twenties/early thirties then suddenly realized that she "missed out on life" and wants to go out and be a party girl. It's only so long you can ignore the media/society before you start to think, "Maybe I'm missing out on something."

Point being, finding an ATTRACTIVE QUALITY girl is nearly impossible. All my previous posts were simply advising men to ADAPT to the times. The odds are completely against us. I'd rather play it safe than take a chance at crappy odds and lose everything.

-Scars

 

[Tyson420]

This is one of the biggest lies being perpetuated on this forum.
It's true that this phenomenon exists, but mostly for women with abuse or self esteem issues.

Women will respond to a neg or some C&F because that is a playful type of thing, it's a type of flirting. If you take the funny out of the C&F it doesn't work as well. Straight up treating her bad is not the best way to go about attracting women, or keeping them either.

My girl knows I love her, but her interest hasn't dropped because I keep the frame and she knows I have boundaries. Granted, it's probably easier for me to keep the frame because we are only living together. I hate to say it, but these days when you get married you are giving a certain amount of your power away.

Dude, your 50 years old.

What girl in her early 20s want to be loved these days?

 

[zekko]

Dude, your 50 years old.

What? How did that happen? (Looks at watch).

What girl in her early 20s want to be loved these days?

Well, the early 20s is a little young to be trying to nail down a relationship.
But I guess you're point is that the times have changed.
Yeah, I'm aware things are deteriorating out there.

My girlfriend is 35 though, that's halfway between 20 and 50.
Unfortunately, despite what they say about abundance mentality (and you should have an abundance mentality), the truth is that a quality girl is very rare. And, as you point out, probably getting rarer. I didn't meet a girl I considered worthy of marrying until I was 33. So that's pretty rare.

 

[handle]

don't be needy, take action, improve yourself, enjoy yourself