A few questions about carb cutting

[Jariel]

I'm currently attempting to cut up again and have been following a low carb diet for the past 6 weeks with great success so far and no muscle loss. Basically, I'm eating carbs for breakfast (wholemeal toast or cereal) and sticking to veg and proteins (and vitamin + omega oil supplements) for the rest of the day.

Now, I've heard it said that one should avoid caffeine whilst on a low carb diet. Is this true and why so?

Secondly, I've read that once you reach a state of ketosis you can eat as many calories and fats as you want. Surely that's not right?!

I've also read that I should take a week off every 4 weeks. My concern is that I am taking a big step back by doing this. Is this good advice or should I keep my diet constant.

Thanks.

 

[Throttle]

I'm currently attempting to cut up again and have been following a low carb diet for the past 6 weeks with great success so far and no muscle loss. Basically, I'm eating carbs for breakfast (wholemeal toast or cereal) and sticking to veg and proteins (and vitamin + omega oil supplements) for the rest of the day.

sounds like a great plan.

Now, I've heard it said that one should avoid caffeine whilst on a low carb diet. Is this true and why so?

there are several good reasons to give it up, beyond the usual reasons. ketosis tends to dehydrate & places extra stress on your liver. atkins cautioned his followers to avoid it due to its relationship with insulin. as best as i can tell, that relationship is still poorly understood. plus there's all the usual reasons to give up caffeine.

having said all that, i am a confirmed caffeine addict (not clinically, but you get the idea), so i salute anyone who can give it up, even temporarily.

Secondly, I've read that once you reach a state of ketosis you can eat as many calories and fats as you want. Surely that's not right?!

it's very possible that once you're off the insulin roller-coaster, your appetite will send much more accurate signals as to your nutritional needs through the day. this is my experience. but it could very well over or under-shoot relative to your goals, particularly since you are trying to lose bf while retaining muscle mass.

I've also read that I should take a week off every 4 weeks. My concern is that I am taking a big step back by doing this. Is this good advice or should I keep my diet constant.

i can't think of any reason to do this, especially since you're getting complex carbs at breakfast. you may eventually feel a bit "deflated" esp. if you're not hitting yourself with carbs immediately after lifting, in which case you may want to do so, or add some more complex carbs at some point during the day. you'll have to find what works for you there.

others will disagree, but i don't believe you can "trick" the body with cycling, zig-zagging or whatever you want to call it, and "cheat meals" or cheat weeks are only cheating your fat loss...

 

[Jariel]

Thanks for the reply mate! A lot of helpful information there.

I will find it hard to drop caffeine too as I love my cups of coffee and diet cokes! I might give de-caf a try though and see if I can cope.

As for the "insuline-rollercoaster", I've never heard it put more accurately! Luckily I feel I've past the worst and I have a very comfortable appetite now and no longer crave big meals or snacks.

Last time I tried a low carb diet I did hit a lot of mental lows, low energy and had a tough time working out, but this time the complex carbs at breakfast are helping avoid that.

Anyway, thanks again for clearing up my questions. When I'm near my goals I might post my experiences and some pics.

 

[Throttle]

diet mt. dew is my weakness (diet coke & good coffee a very distant 2nd & 3rd)...and i'm well aware of the many reasons i should give it up, starting with, caffeine, nutrasweet, brominated vegetable oil, whatever FDA # yellow gives it that freakish green tint, the effects on my teeth, the effects on my sleep, the effects on my behavior (i rant more when hopped up)... and on and on.

i have a good friend who is similarly addicted to the diet dew but manages to give it up awhile whenever he runs a half or whole marathon. says the key is to either slowly cut your daily servings in half, or go cold turkey, and either way supplement with clear fluids & ibuprofen liberally til the 'withdrawal' symptoms pass. my last attempt to hop off the caffeine merry-go-round failed two months ago, but methinks i'll be forced off it cold turkey in a few weeks (actually, come to think of it, i'll likely be away from the forums in a few weeks & then for a significant part of the summer).

 

[stronglifts]

Secondly, I've read that once you reach a state of ketosis you can eat as many calories and fats as you want. Surely that's not right?!

I've also read that I should take a week off every 4 weeks. My concern is that I am taking a big step back by doing this. Is this good advice or should I keep my diet constant.

Thanks.

There's not such thing as "eat as many calories as you want". Calories in > calories out : you'll gain weight.

If you stop after 4 weeks, you'll break ketosis.

However with your carbs at breakfast, I doubt you've reached ketosis. Ketosis is achieved when consuming less than 30g carbs a day.

 

[Jariel]

Throttle: Mountain Dew is hard to come by in the UK, but I feel your pain giving up the caffeine. I'm going to try and cut it down, but not out I think.


Stronglifts: I think you might actually be right, in which case I'm not losing the weight from ketosis.

Is there any benefit to carb cutting if you are not aiming for ketosis? I've read up on carb cycling, so I expect there must be some benefit towards weight loss.

 

[stronglifts]

Is there any benefit to carb cutting if you are not aiming for ketosis? I've read up on carb cycling, so I expect there must be some benefit towards weight loss.

If you want to cut, do it simple: burn more, eat less.

The rest is tweaking.


Carbs (I call it sugar), is for women IMO.

Try a diet consisting of:
*MEAT
*FISH
*FAT
*VEGGIES
*FRUIT

and you'll feel better than ever.

Some benefits I noticed when I switched to the anabolic diet:
* less sleep, wake up with full energy
* lower bodyfat
* more strength
* reduced inflammation (joint/skin)


I didn't like the carb loading in the weekend (why I stopped it), but I could see myself switching to a 7/7 no carb diet in the future.

The only drawback is that you'll spend more time in the kitchen (veggies take time to cook), which is why I can not do it at this moment.

 

[Jariel]

If you want to cut, do it simple: burn more, eat less.

The rest is tweaking.


Carbs (I call it sugar), is for women IMO.

Try a diet consisting of:
*MEAT
*FISH
*FAT
*VEGGIES
*FRUIT

and you'll feel better than ever.

Thanks man, this is exactly what I'm doing at the moment and you're right, I feel great. I'm getting in cardio sessions on non-weight days too and am seeing a steady loss of body fat.

Perhaps if I reach a plateau I might consider toying around with my carb intake a bit more.

 

[stronglifts]

Thanks man, this is exactly what I'm doing at the moment and you're right, I feel great. I'm getting in cardio sessions on non-weight days too and am seeing a steady loss of body fat.

Perhaps if I reach a plateau I might consider toying around with my carb intake a bit more.

Jariel,

If you like no carbs, look into the anabolic diet.

It's t-nation longest thread: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=658379

Good luck.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Carb-up days, even if just with fruit/honey etc., are essential if you want continuing body recomposition. If you just want to maintain your weight you could get away without them, depends on your degree of endomorphic tendencies.

For some people, no carbs would be suicide to muscle gains (or even retention).

 

[RestoretheROAR84]

I'm glad to see that somebody has done the atkins diet without losing muscle... its the only diet that has ever worked for me and i quit it because of muscle/strength loss. But sometimes I would forget about carbs and eat close to zero of them in a day... could that be why I lost muscles or can some people just not get stronger on atkins?

 

[stronglifts]

I'm glad to see that somebody has done the atkins diet without losing muscle... its the only diet that has ever worked for me and i quit it because of muscle/strength loss. But sometimes I would forget about carbs and eat close to zero of them in a day... could that be why I lost muscles or can some people just not get stronger on atkins?

If you like no carbs, I recommend the Anabolic Diet (Dr Di Pasquale) rather than Atkins.

The Anabolic diet:
* Get your daily total kcalories from protein & fat
* Eat veggies & fruit

If you get your daily kcals from protein & fat, you can bulk on the diet & gaining muscle. Actually this kind of diet will make you more cut than any other diet because of the steady intake of fats.

Not everybody like no carbs diet, but it has many advantages.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Stronglifts, I thought the anabolic diet had no fruit? Maybe I'm wrong. Personally I think the protein, fat, fruit, veggie diet is awesome for general health and performance but depending on your somatotype you may need extra (starchy) carbs here and there.

You will gain muscle and strength if calories and protein are high enough, regardless of the diet. Whether this will be optimal for you is another matter; some people need carbs to get strong, others don't. If you find your strength gains are slow, play with some extra carbs, mostly post-workout, and incorporate carb days.

Try it and see.

 

[Throttle]

I'm glad to see that somebody has done the atkins diet without losing muscle... its the only diet that has ever worked for me and i quit it because of muscle/strength loss. But sometimes I would forget about carbs and eat close to zero of them in a day... could that be why I lost muscles or can some people just not get stronger on atkins?

it is less likely that you lost significant muscle in the short run on an atkins type diet than:

- your muscles deflated from lack of glycogen and possibly also water (low carb diets are more prone to dehydrate you).

- your workouts began to suffer b/c you zeroed out your carbs entirely. much better to look at any of the diets that encourage veggies & high fiber whole fruits, and maybe allow some complex carbs in the morning and/or the 2 hour window before working out.

unless you restricted your calories and/or your workouts completely collapsed it is unlikely you lost significant muscle mass, b/c with such diets you tend to get at least adequate protein. it is much more likely that you noticed a drop-off in size & strength, not actual muscle mass. but it also depends on how long your workouts suffered, and whether you were actually getting sufficient protein (i'm too lazy to do / look up the math, but i suppose at the margins you could end up on a very low calorie, high fat diet & not get enough protein for muscle maintenance)

 

[Jariel]

I did consider the Atkins diet, but I'm not too trusting of what I read, plus I've never met anyone who had any success with it. A few things put me off: the rise in cholestrol levels, bad breath and the risk of deflating muscles. Plus, I'm very cautious about coming off it and whether I'd immediately bloat up.

It might be worth it if I was fat, but the only significant bodyfat I have left is around my stubborn love handles.

However, I am finding very effective results by reducing my carbs (along with my calories) rather than cutting them out. Obviously I wish I was dropping fat quicker, but slow and steady seems to be the key in any case.

 

[Throttle]

However, I am finding very effective results by reducing my carbs (along with my calories) rather than cutting them out. Obviously I wish I was dropping fat quicker, but slow and steady seems to be the key in any case.

exactly.

 

[stronglifts]

Stronglifts, I thought the anabolic diet had no fruit? Maybe I'm wrong. Personally I think the protein, fat, fruit, veggie diet is awesome for general health and performance but depending on your somatotype you may need extra (starchy) carbs here and there.

You will gain muscle and strength if calories and protein are high enough, regardless of the diet. Whether this will be optimal for you is another matter; some people need carbs to get strong, others don't. If you find your strength gains are slow, play with some extra carbs, mostly post-workout, and incorporate carb days.

Try it and see.

Welcome back WBA,

The anabolic diet has indeed no veggies/no fruit during the first 14 days, after wards you can eat fruit/veggies (moderated).

I don't like the weekend carb loading on the anabolic diet (always turns out in a junk weekend), I go low/non carb all week.

 

[stronglifts]

I did consider the Atkins diet, but I'm not too trusting of what I read, plus I've never met anyone who had any success with it. A few things put me off: the rise in cholestrol levels, bad breath and the risk of deflating muscles. Plus, I'm very cautious about coming off it and whether I'd immediately bloat up.

It might be worth it if I was fat, but the only significant bodyfat I have left is around my stubborn love handles.

However, I am finding very effective results by reducing my carbs (along with my calories) rather than cutting them out. Obviously I wish I was dropping fat quicker, but slow and steady seems to be the key in any case.

The anabolic diet is different from Atkins for your info.