30 Years Old and Not Clear on The Right Path in Life - Need Feedback

[squirrels]

Yes I do have to make a decision soon... this does put a big contraint on my cheating....

Bring another girl home with you. Ask her to crash on the couch for tonight. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Kailex]

OMG you are absolutely right in everything you just posted. I've never read an entire post that more accurarely defined what's going on here. Thank you.....

Because you are used to having her in your life?
Because you are dependent on her?
Because she's a safe choice?
Because you're afraid of hurting her feelings?

Absolutely all true and probably have equal weight.

Jayer, you want to know how I know what you are going through?

I was there 2 years ago. I was in an LTR for 5+ years. I was at the point you are now. And she was older than me. When we broke up, I was close to hitting 29 and she was already 31. Her biological clock was ticking and I wasn't putting out. We had a LOT of hidden issues that I thought she could resolve.

It started at Year 2 of our relationship and I stuck around, hoping that this "gem" of a woman could get it resolved.

Did I cheat? Yes.
Do I regret it? Somewhat.

I lost 4 years of my life because I thought there was nothing better than her, because I thought, that if I let go of her, I wouldn't be able to find anything better, that I wouldn't be able to find anyone of her "caliber"...

The irony was, I was cheating on this person...

The true question you have to ask yourself is: If she has all these great qualities of a woman you'd love to get married to... then why won't you and why are you cheating instead?

Jayer, for 4 years I dragged it on until I eventually realized, I wasted a lot of her time, but more importantly, MY time as well. I always thought I could dip outside of the relationship for the parts of mine that were lacking. And that's what you are doing right now. You're searching for those missing pieces outside of your LTR and that just isn't right. If you think you feel that way NOW, imagine how much more magnified the situation will be if you do get married...

And by her moving in like this (Which, again, was a brilliant move on her part), she's just one more step away from accomplishing what she wants. To be honest, she's trying to force you into a decision.

I know this is going to sound sappy, but absolutely think about this: Do you love this woman so much that you would stop cheating for the rest of your life? Do you really picture yourself with HER for the rest of your life?

I'm sure you just thought of "NO" to at least one of those two questions and if you did... you know what you need to do. Stop being a coward, and do it, make a decision, but STOP waiting for HER to make the decision for you. I KNOW that is what you are doing... you are waiting for her to get fed up with how you are acting, for her to notice that you are being "distant" in a way and that she'll get tired of it... and eventually break up... and absolving you of any direct blame and saving you the trouble of having to do it yourself.

I broke up with my G/F on somewhat mutual terms after 6 years (4 lost years) and I don't remember being this happy in a LONG time. Does it suck at times to know that I don't have someone who has my back like my ex used to? Yes. But will it happen again at some point? Hells yes.

Stop worrying about what qualities she has or doesn't... she's replaceable.

And if right now, when I said she's replaceable... you IMMEDIATELY thought that she isn't... then you made your decision.

But stop wasting both of your time with pondering on what to do and cheating in the meantime.

Get your head clear first and the situation as well.

 

[ducaro]

I've met over 50 new people in the past year, and I would say only a small percentage could one interpret as selfish, expecting to be catered to, or flakey or have poor etiquette. Others would probably say around the order of 3/50 or less, and in my mind, I would say 0/50 as I am good at articulating what I want out of a situation and coming to a healthy agreement with people.

One of the first things I learned when I became a non-violent crisis intervention trainer was that people will often reflect back the energy you put out into the world - what you put out will add or subtract from what they're bringing to the situation. I know for a fact that I bring a calm, upfront, non-judgmental, non-exploitative, genuine, meticulate and caring energy to every interaction. I have found those I met delightful. I would not characterize myself as particularly choosy either. I love people and can find common ground with just about anyone.

If you're feeling defensive or hurt or afraid, you're missing my point and you should stop yourself right now and take a moment to refocus. I intend for you to feel no such emotion and if you do, you're misunderstanding my point. My point is simply that you don't seem to understand where these people you've met in the past are coming from. You don't have much compassion or empathy for them - and since we are all the same, you therefore lack compassion or empathy for some part of yourself. It's not something I think you should think about, in fact, don't think about it. Just let it be as it is, and let those you've met be as they are.

More than anything, I hear a mentality of scarcity - a fear-based feeling that you can't find what you want from other people out there. And you're absolutely right that all you need to find immense happiness from the universe is not in your life-situation but inside yourself.

I believe your sense of scarcity is a false sense of scarcity. Wonderful people are all around IF you can accept people as they are. If you can't accept other people as they are, and therefore yourself, you will never find anyone who meets your criteria. If you are content to share what you can with people, good people are everywhere and they are beautiful.

So I hear a lot of pain, fear in what you're saying. It sounds like you haven't connected with the part of yourself that can make you immensely happy right now. Or else you'd realize that there's nothing wrong with anyone else because you're ok now.

That's what you're looking for in a woman? So you complain about women expecting to be catered to. Here, it seems you are glad when a woman caters to your childish lack of desire to cook or clean for yourself, and you want a woman to be your masturbation object? I know that you don't think you desire any of those things. And here you are probably feeling defensive again, which is a waste of both of our time on earth. Please don't try to justify this, I'm not interested at all. It's just a thought I want you to have consciousness of.

Healthy relationships are not about people catering to one another, they are about people finding common interests, just like any of your friends. If you have a common interest in sex then great, in cleaning then great. And if you don't, that's exploitation and expecting to be catered to.

I just want you to note how shallow that is. I have issues around weight as well so I am no better and also I can note that it's shallow. That's normal and human. Clinginess comes from expecting a relationship to provide a happiness that it cannot provide. We've covered earlier that I believe you have similar beliefs.



This is a non-question. You should only pursue what makes you delightfully happy to do. If you're not THRILLED about marriage, then the answer is you're not ready. If she'd like to get married, that's fine. Tell her she can go meet someone else and marry him.

I would not use advice given on this board a signpost for how to find happiness, as most posters on here lead lifes filled with misery. I would only follow their advice if you're seeking misery, which I sometimes believe you are (not consciously of course, but through your own lack of consciousness about yourself and other people). I mean that as no criticism at all, but you will doubtless take it as one. I invite you to any note defensiveness that springs up and consider from where it comes. Our society teaches us junk values like evaluating bodies in a conventional way, seeking to enslave other people - all while telling us we shouldn't do either. Lots of people are in your shoes.

Izza

Izza, i just read your post and I have great respect for you.

I was on this board on and off all these years and trust me initially when I got into sosuave - i turned into some sort of a woman hater. I wore these glasses and always looked at all women the same way.

It took me while a while to understand that all of us on this planet are the same. You put out love you get it back - you carry a grumpy face you get it back. you believe in people - people will believe in you.

its so easy to say all women are BiXXXXS and all men are BASXXXDS. There is no wisdom in it.

After all these years I found a beautiful woman (both inside and outside and we are getting married soon. I cannot be happier and I thank the universe for finding her.

At the very core of all the people on this board lies an iota of hope... of living a better life... of finding love. Noone can deny that. Yet men tend to say they don't want love and all they want is booty. How long are they going to fool themselves.?

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[Reyaj]

Kailex

Out of every post I've read yours seems to empahtize the most in what I am going through. I have re-read your posts 3 times because they hit home so much. I appreciate your patience and I apologize if I sound like I am playing devils advocate... but I really want to question a few salient points in what you wrote to me... Since you crossed the rubicon so to speak I think your answers to what I'm asking could really hit home and be profound to me...


"It almost seems like you want to convince yourself that you can keep her along while you test the waters at the same time... as if you were a branch swinger yourself. Almost as if you were making sure that there are no better options out there before you finally decide to settle on this one..."

This is exactly true and what I've been doing. I know this is not right when its looked at objectively... however I'm a veteran in this game and on this site... its taught me to keep my feelings in check and not get sucked into false notions such as "true love" or "soul mates" etc.... I've dated countless women and have gone through all kinds of experiences both positive and negative..... if I am to get married to someone shouldn't I do it based on the most data available? Yes I am being egocentric... but that's what I've inferred as a theme from this site and it's preachings... I'm the prize do what's best for me... I realize I am running a risk of getting caught by cheating and if I do get caught then I deserve to get dumped... but if I can get away with it and buy time to make my decision why shouldn't I do this? Wouldn't this be the best business move so to speak?

"The true question you have to ask yourself is: If she has all these great qualities of a woman you'd love to get married to... then why won't you and why are you cheating instead?"


She has some great qualities that are hard to find today (again I've been in the dating scene and still am.. actually went out with a girl from the UK yesterday hehe) but she also has some negative qualities as well. But aside from all that I'm honestly bored with her at times..... Seriously.... having sex with the same girl over and over again does become insipid after a while... Its funny cause if I don't see her for a while, I like having sex with her... but when she's in my presence for like a week straight I don't lust for it.... Couldn't this happen with any girl though? The same thing happend to me with my ex..... If the notion of a soul mate is false why shouldn't I treat this pragmatically?

"I know this is going to sound sappy, but absolutely think about this: Do you love this woman so much that you would stop cheating for the rest of your life? Do you really picture yourself with HER for the rest of your life? I'm sure you just thought of "NO" to at least one of those two questions and if you did... you know what you need to do. Stop being a coward, and do it, make a decision, but STOP waiting for HER to make the decision for you. I KNOW that is what you are doing... you are waiting for her to get fed up with how you are acting, for her to notice that you are being "distant" in a way and that she'll get tired of it... and eventually break up... and absolving you of any direct blame and saving you the trouble of having to do it yourself."

Yes I did hesitate when I thought of the answers to this. But let me ask you this.. and this is the burning question I have that really is going to make or break this for me...... If I decided to break it off with her.... What would I be looking for??? I can't even answer that.... I feel like any woman woud eventually land me in comfort zone... thats why I go back to maybe I need to change my philosophy internally to be satisfied with what I have rather than what I don't....? Again though the big question is... What am I looking for in a different girl that I would choose to marry her rather than who I am with? What is your answer to that question since you broke it off with your ex?

"I broke up with my G/F on somewhat mutual terms after 6 years (4 lost years) and I don't remember being this happy in a LONG time. Does it suck at times to know that I don't have someone who has my back like my ex used to? Yes. But will it happen again at some point? Hells yes."
Is marriage and children a goal for you in life or are you just after having as many interactions with women as possible for the rest of your life? At my age I feel like I have to think of my future which is another reason I am holding onto this girl....


Thanks Kailex

 

[squirrels]

With "romance", you never know what you're "looking for" until you find it. You can guess at the ideal all you want, but when you find someone who really blows you away, it's often several degrees off from what you expected.

You should NOT settle for a woman who "doesn't feel right" just for the sake of getting married and having kids. What will that do to the children, when they sense that their father is not really happy with their mother? What happens if things turn bad and there's a divorce?

If you want to be a father, for God's sake, be a GOOD one. Meaning make sure you do what you can to provide a good environment for raising them...one with a happy father AND mother.

Too many people have kids for the most SELFISH of reasons. As I've said before to others, "F*ck your legacy".

 

[Reyaj]

With "romance", you never know what you're "looking for" until you find it. You can guess at the ideal all you want, but when you find someone who really blows you away, it's often several degrees off from what you expected.

You should NOT settle for a woman who "doesn't feel right" just for the sake of getting married and having kids. What will that do to the children, when they sense that their father is not really happy with their mother? What happens if things turn bad and there's a divorce?

If you want to be a father, for God's sake, be a GOOD one. Meaning make sure you do what you can to provide a good environment for raising them...one with a happy father AND mother.

Too many people have kids for the most SELFISH of reasons. As I've said before to others, "F*ck your legacy".

They all blow me away initially... but then the novelty wears off and it becomes trite. So are you saying that there is a woman out there that this won't happen with?

 

[squirrels]

They all blow me away initially... but then the novelty wears off and it becomes trite. So are you saying that there is a woman out there that this won't happen with?

No woman will continue to "blow you away" like she did the first day you met her. But once you reach a certain age, women shouldn't typically "blow you away" anyway. You've been here long enough...you know that there aren't perfect women out there. Whoever you end up with, you have to know YOURSELF well enough to know that the "bad things" about her are or aren't things that will end up screwing up the relationship/family dynamic.

I have never believed in marrying a woman that I wasn't ready to marry, just for the sake of getting "starting a family" out of the way. If a woman I WANT to be married to doesn't come along, then I'd rather stay single than "settle".

That's me, and others have different views on things and different priorities. I haven't found one yet...some have come close, if not for hang-ups and insecurities. Some have briefly fooled me into thinking that they could be "special" but things turned out wrong. Maybe I'm asking too much of a human female. Maybe *I* don't deserve *THEM*...who knows. I just find it hard to make marriage and children a priority in my life. If I found the right woman, I could see giving the family thing a try. Until then, I'll put my resources to better use.

Do you want to marry this girl or not?? Either decision is perfectly valid, but grab your balls, be a man, and make a decision.

Otherwise, as you've seen, she'll make it for you. :nervous:

 

[Kailex]

Kailex

This is exactly true and what I've been doing. I know this is not right when its looked at objectively... however I'm a veteran in this game and on this site... its taught me to keep my feelings in check and not get sucked into false notions such as "true love" or "soul mates" etc.... I've dated countless women and have gone through all kinds of experiences both positive and negative..... if I am to get married to someone shouldn't I do it based on the most data available? Yes I am being egocentric... but that's what I've inferred as a theme from this site and it's preachings... I'm the prize do what's best for me... I realize I am running a risk of getting caught by cheating and if I do get caught then I deserve to get dumped... but if I can get away with it and buy time to make my decision why shouldn't I do this? Wouldn't this be the best business move so to speak?

Here's the problem with getting caught and getting dumped.
It's so much more financially viable when you are single... rather than being discovered after being married. Like I said, she's slowly closing in for the kill with you. She's going to push as hard as she can in order to make you pop the question and if you don't "break"... she'll break it off for you.

The problem with "getting away with it" is that you are doing it to someone with "marriage potential". She clearly is on a whole other level than you are.

And the problem with calling it a business move is that business moves are cold and calculating and most businesses would screw others in a heartbeat for a better deal... but we're talking about people here.

The other problem with trying to find a potential "someone else" while being in an LTR is that the other options seem a little more attractice than they should because there is the excitement of "not getting caught", plus you haven't spent enough time with these women to correctly assess whether they are right for you or not.

Right now, your biggest fight is within yourself... whether to determine if it's worth settling or settling down... or ultimately breaking up and risking the unfamiliar. Right now... it doesn't seem like you would be settling down, but moreso, settling for someone.

Every woman we'll meet on this planet has her share of good and bad, no matter what. Stay in a relationship long enough with what you might deem the "perfect woman" and I guarantee that a year from now, you'll find the flaws in her as well.

She has some great qualities that are hard to find today (again I've been in the dating scene and still am.. actually went out with a girl from the UK yesterday hehe) but she also has some negative qualities as well. But aside from all that I'm honestly bored with her at times..... Seriously.... having sex with the same girl over and over again does become insipid after a while... Its funny cause if I don't see her for a while, I like having sex with her... but when she's in my presence for like a week straight I don't lust for it.... Couldn't this happen with any girl though? The same thing happend to me with my ex..... If the notion of a soul mate is false why shouldn't I treat this pragmatically?

It's natural. At least with me, it happened. I actually lived with my LTR for over a year, so I know exactly what you are talking about. And guess what, Jayer, it only gets worse when you move on. You start thinking it's a chore and then cheating seems even MORE exciting.

Jayer, if you are feeling like this about her ALREADY, trust me, marriage is not going to make those feelings disappear. They won't be replaced with a newfound love for her. At some point, we all become bored of the same person, which is why we try to keep hobbies going, a social life going, busy worklife going, to keep the mix going.

After some time, there's only so much spontaneity a relationship can have, and then routine kicks in. And it's this routine that bores people.

If sex with her is boring, spice it up. Try new things. Try new locations. Try SOMETHING. If you really feel something for her, you'll try to do something for her just as much as she'll do it for you.

Yes I did hesitate when I thought of the answers to this. But let me ask you this.. and this is the burning question I have that really is going to make or break this for me...... If I decided to break it off with her.... What would I be looking for??? I can't even answer that.... I feel like any woman woud eventually land me in comfort zone... thats why I go back to maybe I need to change my philosophy internally to be satisfied with what I have rather than what I don't....? Again though the big question is... What am I looking for in a different girl that I would choose to marry her rather than who I am with? What is your answer to that question since you broke it off with your ex?

The bolded part.
I asked myself the SAME question over a year ago.
Hell, I even made a list of Pros and Cons of dropping my LTR, and it led me to believe that I have absolutely NO idea what I might be looking for afterwards.

Know what the beauty of it is?
That we DON'T know what we are looking for. And the greatness in that is the excitement of discovery. Just think about it... if you don't know what you would be looking for... then it means that you haven't found it yet within your current relationship. You don't have an archetype set within your mind yet of what you want, which means that your current LTR... probably isn't it.

The only answer I've come up with for what I am looking for is: Someone who can add value to my life.

Someone said it here and yet, it's so true. Someone who ADDS to your life is someone worth keeping around. Does your current LTR add that much value to your life? I would think not, since you're looking for SOMETHING to fill that void within other women... and you know what that void is... you can't explain WHAT it is, but I know that you know what it feels like.

Ever caught yourself looking at your girlfriend, wondering how you could probably be doing better than just settling for her?

Is marriage and children a goal for you in life or are you just after having as many interactions with women as possible for the rest of your life? At my age I feel like I have to think of my future which is another reason I am holding onto this girl....

Marriage and children are a goal for me.
But I can't determine whether that'd be soon or in a few years. But the only way I can get to that point is by trying to have as many interactions as possible. So my answer to that question is... I'll do a little bit of both.

But if I'm going to get married and have children, I'd definitely want to do it with someone who I knew would last, add value to my life and wouldn't screw me into a divorce.

So, here's the thing, do you see yourself having a child with this woman? Let's say five years pass by, and you both have a child, but you are still bored with the relationship... and you cheat, and you divorce...

Are you willing to deal with all of that?

I know I am painting a grim picture, but it's only because it seems like you are only 25% sure that you want to stay with her and every reason you have mentioned has been for convinience and nothing else. How long will this last though? How long will convinience cut it for you after the marriage certificate is signed? And that's the gist of your whole thread... you aren't HAPPY to marry her, you're just considering it as an OPTION. That alone means you are settling for her.

And are you sure that if you get married, you can stay faithful to that relationship? And committed?

 

[izza]

Izza

I understand where you are coming from. I agree I am being selfish... but I don't see the situation as black and white as you describe. What I'm doing is not intentionally malicious towards her.

You're the only one thinking of things in black and white terms, I can assure you. Life is what it is, what you're doing is what it is. I'm not thinking about it as right or wrong. Only you are.

You're also the only one implying that you are being malicious to her. When I mention selfishness - the definition of selfishness is that there's no intention to harm others, but rather, your own well-being is weighted more heavily in your mind than those around you. This kind of convenient philosophy is mainstream and you will also hear it frequently on this board. There's nothing wrong with being selfish. It stems from your unconsciousness about yourself and about the people around you. If you knew fully what you were doing, you would stop immediately.

Until you're aware of how much useless pain you're causing yourself and her, you will continue. But right and wrong don't enter the picture for me.

I know I'm not ready for marriage right now... but I may be in the future. One of my goals in life is to get married and have a family when the time is right of course.

Nothing wrong with that, have you told her this?

Am I 100% sure that I want to marry this girl... NO

Nothing wrong with that, have you told her this?

Am I 100% sure I don't want to marry her, NO as well.

Nothing wrong with that, have you told her this?

So I'm basically just trying to buy time so that when I make the decision it could be one that isn't made out of scarcity, but one that I know I want to do.

Nothing wrong with that, have you told her this?

Yes cheating is cowardly, or wrong, or Unscrupulous, but this action represents inadequacies/issues I have as a person and is not a discredit to what she brings to my life.

Again, you're the only one who's even suggesting what you want has anything to do with her. She sounds like a wonderful person. Of course it has to do with your inability to communicate openly how you feel and what you want.

There's nothing wrong with being with other people. So have you told her you intend to?

If not, be aware that you're manipulating her by lying about what you're really doing. You're stringing her along. She has one set of expectations about your relationship and you know they are not being met right now. You know you purposefully not correcting her, even though you know she's expecting you not to cheat. That is a form of exploitation and trickery.

Again, here you will probably be defensive or view this as some sort of moralistic attack. This has nothing to do with morality. You will say that is something to think about. Please do not think about what I'm saying. Let things be as they are. You don't need to think about them.

As ludicrous as it may sound... I feel like I have to do this in order to find out the truth about myself. I'm not cheating for the traditional reasons most people do. If you really want to know I'll post the reasons I think I do it...

It doesn't matter why. All I'm asking is, have you told her that you're going to be with other people and why? If you can't communicate such a simple thing to her, then your relationship sucks. It's that simple.

I know because I regularly am with all kinds of monogamous people. But I am totally open with them that I'm seeing other people and why. I tell them every detail. There is no need for secrecy. Again, this is not a moral thing. It feels better to be totally open. It is how healthy, happy people behave - they are open with each other. So again, the problem with "cheating" IS NOT that we want to be with other people. What could be more natural? Remember, 95% of animals in the animal kingdom are NOT sexually monogamous.

So really, the problem of cheating isn't that we want to be with others. We are just doing what feels natural to us. The problem is communication - what you want is not being communicated because, in short, your relationship is based on lies.

Izza

PS And yet I read the post that she's moving in with you? It seems that you are intent on torturing yourself. Most people enjoy the pain and emotional drama on some level. If they didn't, all relationships would be based on simple love and open communication. But it sounds like on some level you like feeling bad for yourself.

And her - women are smart. She can sense what's happening on some level. It seems that she enjoys emotional pain and suffering as well. On some level she can sense that you're cheating on her, that you don't want to marry her. But it seems she too needs to suffer on some level. But who's to say that is a bad thing? In my life, it took a lot of pointless suffering for me to realize "I can make a choice, I don't need to suffer anymore." So let's hope that what you both are going through will hurt so much that you will both decide to live happy, peaceful, upfront lives instead.

 

[izza]

Izza, i just read your post and I have great respect for you.

I was on this board on and off all these years and trust me initially when I got into sosuave - i turned into some sort of a woman hater. I wore these glasses and always looked at all women the same way.

It took me while a while to understand that all of us on this planet are the same. You put out love you get it back - you carry a grumpy face you get it back. you believe in people - people will believe in you.

its so easy to say all women are BiXXXXS and all men are BASXXXDS. There is no wisdom in it.

After all these years I found a beautiful woman (both inside and outside and we are getting married soon. I cannot be happier and I thank the universe for finding her.

At the very core of all the people on this board lies an iota of hope... of living a better life... of finding love. Noone can deny that. Yet men tend to say they don't want love and all they want is booty. How long are they going to fool themselves.?

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Thanks, and congratulations on choosing happiness in life

Izza

 

[Reyaj]

Here's the problem with getting caught and getting dumped.
It's so much more financially viable when you are single... rather than being discovered after being married. Like I said, she's slowly closing in for the kill with you. She's going to push as hard as she can in order to make you pop the question and if you don't "break"... she'll break it off for you.

The problem with "getting away with it" is that you are doing it to someone with "marriage potential". She clearly is on a whole other level than you are.

And the problem with calling it a business move is that business moves are cold and calculating and most businesses would screw others in a heartbeat for a better deal... but we're talking about people here.

The other problem with trying to find a potential "someone else" while being in an LTR is that the other options seem a little more attractice than they should because there is the excitement of "not getting caught", plus you haven't spent enough time with these women to correctly assess whether they are right for you or not.

Right now, your biggest fight is within yourself... whether to determine if it's worth settling or settling down... or ultimately breaking up and risking the unfamiliar. Right now... it doesn't seem like you would be settling down, but moreso, settling for someone.

Every woman we'll meet on this planet has her share of good and bad, no matter what. Stay in a relationship long enough with what you might deem the "perfect woman" and I guarantee that a year from now, you'll find the flaws in her as well.



It's natural. At least with me, it happened. I actually lived with my LTR for over a year, so I know exactly what you are talking about. And guess what, Jayer, it only gets worse when you move on. You start thinking it's a chore and then cheating seems even MORE exciting.

Jayer, if you are feeling like this about her ALREADY, trust me, marriage is not going to make those feelings disappear. They won't be replaced with a newfound love for her. At some point, we all become bored of the same person, which is why we try to keep hobbies going, a social life going, busy worklife going, to keep the mix going.

After some time, there's only so much spontaneity a relationship can have, and then routine kicks in. And it's this routine that bores people.

If sex with her is boring, spice it up. Try new things. Try new locations. Try SOMETHING. If you really feel something for her, you'll try to do something for her just as much as she'll do it for you.



The bolded part.
I asked myself the SAME question over a year ago.
Hell, I even made a list of Pros and Cons of dropping my LTR, and it led me to believe that I have absolutely NO idea what I might be looking for afterwards.

Know what the beauty of it is?
That we DON'T know what we are looking for. And the greatness in that is the excitement of discovery. Just think about it... if you don't know what you would be looking for... then it means that you haven't found it yet within your current relationship. You don't have an archetype set within your mind yet of what you want, which means that your current LTR... probably isn't it.

The only answer I've come up with for what I am looking for is: Someone who can add value to my life.

Someone said it here and yet, it's so true. Someone who ADDS to your life is someone worth keeping around. Does your current LTR add that much value to your life? I would think not, since you're looking for SOMETHING to fill that void within other women... and you know what that void is... you can't explain WHAT it is, but I know that you know what it feels like.

Kailex sorry it took me a while to respond here. I feel like life moves by at warp speed sometimes! My situation is really the same, aside from being able to get some breathing room with her not staying with me so much. Since her job is closer to where she was living I'm able to get that breathing room.

But anyway I am going to play Devil's advocate again because this is naturally how I analyze situations which ultimate lead me to my decisions. In a circuitous way You basically are saying I shouldn't cheat on her because its not ethical. Deep down I really feel that it is every man's right to test the waters before he gets married. Even though I have cheated, I always find my girlfriend to be the best choice in the end, and I usually end up nexting all the other girls after I either hooked up with them... or a lot of times don't even feel the attraction to them anymore because of the comfort I feel with my girlfriend. Now on the other side of the coin, sometimes my gf annoys me when I spend too much time with her and thats when I want to venture out....

I feel like I am in a catch-22 man.... like I'm not completely happy either way. I think that I do feel happier having my gf than being alone living on hope.

In regards to the sex..... yes it can be boring when I see her constantly... but when I have some time in between I lust for it... but she certainly wants it more than me. I read so many posts and hear from so many people that its the female that starts holding out the sex after a while... I even think I read it one of your posts Kailex in your current situation (on another note did I read correctly you are living with your present gf?)

"That we DON'T know what we are looking for. And the greatness in that is the excitement of discovery. Just think about it... if you don't know what you would be looking for... then it means that you haven't found it yet within your current relationship. You don't have an archetype set within your mind yet of what you want, which means that your current LTR... probably isn't it.

The only answer I've come up with for what I am looking for is: Someone who can add value to my life.

Someone said it here and yet, it's so true. Someone who ADDS to your life is someone worth keeping around. Does your current LTR add that much value to your life? I would think not, since you're looking for SOMETHING to fill that void within other women... and you know what that void is... you can't explain WHAT it is, but I know that you know what it feels like."

Absolutely profound stuff right here man. The thing is, I'm not sure life owes us what we think it does when it comes to romance.... I see so many unhappy marriages that only makes this more salient to me. I mean if I break up with my girlfriend there is no guarantee I am going to meet another girl that will make everything make sense for me that I will have no doubt. I run the risk of looking back thinking I made a mistake not getting married. Believe me I know plenty of people that appear to be this way.

You know what though, my girlfriend does add value to my life... she is great with my family, great to accompany me to social events, and does enhance my professional status I'd say.....

Anyway I am sorry for rambling on... I wanted to write this when I had more time so it would be concise. I hope I made at least a little sense. Thank you for listening

Izza,

I don't want her to see other people lol!

 

[izza]

Izza,

I don't want her to see other people lol!

Nothing wrong with that. Though if you're going to manipulate and exploit her, I'd like you to at least PRETEND like you're having fun doing it!

There's really only one possible explanation for the story I'm reading: like most humans, on a level you're unaware of, you love to suffer.

If you truly loved this person and yourself more than you love pain, you would stop your insane march of folly immediately. But you seem to love pain and anguish. If you truly thought much of yourself, if you didn't regularly loathe your own reflection in the mirror, it would be impossible for you to live this way.

But at least have fun!

Deep down I really feel that it is very man's right to test the waters before he gets married. Even though I have cheated, I always find my girlfriend to be the best choice in the end, and I usually end up nexting all the other girls after I either hooked up with them... or a lot of times don't even feel the attraction to them anymore because of the comfort I feel with my girlfriend.

I'm curious, do you think it is a woman's right to test the waters before getting married?

Question: if after cheating you always find her the best choice, do you have any doubt she will find you the best choice if she were with others? If so, I think you would agree that this points to a low opinion of yourself in your own mind. And by the way, you justify this low opinion by cheating, which only makes lying more necessary.

Do you feel afraid she wouldn't want you anymore? That you'd be all alone? Do you ever feel afraid no one you desire will ever want you again? Are you afraid if you both were openly with other people she will find someone "she liked better?"

I'm wondering, and I seriously want you to try to answer this question: why wouldn't she just next the guys she's with?

I bet she wouldn't be interested in others because of the same comfort you mentioned.

Are you deriving inappropriate ego-gratification and a clingy sense of self through her desire for you?

I will confess: despite all manner of joy with women, even I'm still not always sure I'm desirable. It's really hard to have that kind of confidence.

If you're going try to control her through lies and sexist, unfair power-games, at least have more fun doing it! You sound like a sorry sack.

But like I said before, I suspect you are seeking misery, pain, and suffering. If you play your cards right, all the self-centered misery you're going through now will lead you to peace, I think.

Izza

 

[Reyaj]

Izza you always say not to get defensive when you offer your criticism, but I have to say you are being borderline insulting. If a rise is what you ultimately wanted to get out of me, then congrats.

I don't feel I am manipulating or exploiting her at all. If I didn't want to be with her, I wouldn't be. Obviously I am satisfied to a great degree (though not fully but I don't believe anyone could do that, that has to be done first internally right?) which is part of the reason I may stray at time.

But anyway to answer your questions about letting her be with other people.... I wouldn't say it has to do with not feeling confident she'd come back to me... frankly I just don't want some other guy's bodily fluids on her

 

[Zarky]

I didn't read all 4 pages of replies but this is my take on the OP. Correct me if I'm wrong.:

OP failed with a bunch of women, got bitter, finally found a fatty who would put out for him, and he's so desperate to keep her around that he's actually considering marrying her.

Pretty accurate? :cheer:

 

[Trader]

This is what happens when you have no idea who you are

When you have no idea who you are, you have no idea what you want

OP, you are just not that into her.

If you marry her, it will be a marriage of convenience.

 

[Kailex]

But anyway I am going to play Devil's advocate again because this is naturally how I analyze situations which ultimate lead me to my decisions. In a circuitous way You basically are saying I shouldn't cheat on her because its not ethical. Deep down I really feel that it is every man's right to test the waters before he gets married. Even though I have cheated, I always find my girlfriend to be the best choice in the end, and I usually end up nexting all the other girls after I either hooked up with them... or a lot of times don't even feel the attraction to them anymore because of the comfort I feel with my girlfriend. Now on the other side of the coin, sometimes my gf annoys me when I spend too much time with her and thats when I want to venture out....

What's going on here is simple:

You are getting the best of both worlds without having to deal with the worst.

Quite simply put, you are giving yourself a means to escape from the harsh realities of the LTR or the "hook-up" world. As soon as something bothers you in your LTR, you venture out and everything is okay again because someone else is giving you the excitement that you no longer feel (momentarily) with your LTR. But when something in your hook-up world ceases to excite you, you can just drop them with the slightest of ease and go back to your LTR.

This is why it's so easy for you to keep going on the current path. You aren't experiencing the bad... and as soon as you do, you panic, because you can't handle it. You are so used to shifting focuses from negative to positive without facing the real issue, that when a decision is needed of you, you don't know what to think or say.

I keep insisting, she will notice what is going on and at some point get REALLY tired of it and she'll make the decision for you.

If that's what you want, then I say, keep doing what you are doing.

But think about this... would you rather make the decision yourself and know that YOU were the one who out their foot down or would you rather HER make it for you? Remember, the situation is the same, but the circumstances are different. Dumper .vs. Dumpee brings about many situations and you being the Dumpee spells doom for you.

It's nice that you can HAVE the best of both worlds, but it's temporary. It's not going to last forever and the longer you keep this up, the ruder the wake-up call is going to be in the long run,

In regards to the sex..... yes it can be boring when I see her constantly... but when I have some time in between I lust for it... but she certainly wants it more than me. I read so many posts and hear from so many people that its the female that starts holding out the sex after a while... I even think I read it one of your posts Kailex in your current situation (on another note did I read correctly you are living with your present gf?)

I did the exact same thing, but no, I am not currently living with anyone. I DID live with my ex-LTR and we weren't even considering marriage (big mistake). I went through the same thing you did. I loved having both worlds to live in, but in the end, I decided that I was wasting both of our times. She did a lot of things for me, but she didn't do enough. She was great to my family and she was great to me, but I didn't feel that spark. I didn't want to marry her and I knew that she wanted to start a family soon. It wasn't fair to either of us to try to live a lie.

Jayer, and I hate to say this, but I recently came to terms with this myself... if the sex is boring, I'm 99% sure that it's boring because of you. You need to spice it up. It's so easy to just do the same thing everytime with our LTR's, but as men we need to STILL LEAD... even in bed. Switch it up. Do something different, do something exciting.

I mean if I break up with my girlfriend there is no guarantee I am going to meet another girl that will make everything make sense for me that I will have no doubt. I run the risk of looking back thinking I made a mistake not getting married. Believe me I know plenty of people that appear to be this way.

You tell me what you'd rather do:

(1) Marry her, get her pregnant and then realize you made a mistake...
(2) Not marry her, move on in your life, realize you MIGHT have made a mistake and then meet someone equal or better to her...

It's that simple.
And one of those will most likely happen. You don't seem to love her, you just seem COMFORTABLE with her. Right now, she's the man in the relationship and you're the woman. You are being THAT "branch swinger", looking for that MORE comfortable branch to swing to that might be a little more exciting.

My first month after my LTR was tough, but I've NEVER looked back with any regrets, because I ended it on my own terms and because I know that I'll find someone better. Does that mean that I won't be facing trials and tribulations again? No. But it's an exciting new world for me.

I'm just beginning to wonder if you're not going through what I went through at that time: The fear of starting over.

You have so much invested in your current relationship, that it seems that you aren't too willing to give up. I say this: Don't worry about what you've invested into that, you might reach the point where it's too late to sale that stock and then you'll be stuck with a whole other set of dilemmas.



Be true to yourself Jayer, and be true to her. You owe her that much. The more you play this game, the more you risk losing... EVERYTHING.

 

[izza]

Izza you always say not to get defensive when you offer your criticism, but I have to say you are being borderline insulting. If a rise is what you ultimately wanted to get out of me, then congrats.

I don't feel I am manipulating or exploiting her at all. If I didn't want to be with her, I wouldn't be. Obviously I am satisfied to a great degree (though not fully but I don't believe anyone could do that, that has to be done first internally right?) which is part of the reason I may stray at time.

But anyway to answer your questions about letting her be with other people.... I wouldn't say it has to do with not feeling confident she'd come back to me... frankly I just don't want some other guy's bodily fluids on her

Hi Jayer,

No, I have no intention of getting a rise out of you! I'm glad to hear you're so satisfied. And I see nothing wrong with being with multiple people. I'm doing it now even though I'm madly in love with one person. In my case I'm totally open about it but that's ok if you're not. I'm having fun. Everybody knows everyone else, everybody knows what's going on.

As for the questions, no they're not meant to be insulting! I asked all those questions because they're very common scenarios that I've lived in the past, and that I sometimes live in the present when I'm not paying attention. So if you feel insulted... you're insulting me!

There is nothing wrong with this situation! The reason most cheating happens is because people want what I have but don't want their partner to have it too! We humans cheat a LOT too. Or people want what I have, but are afraid if they told the truth they would lose everything. But I can tell you - because I'm living it now - that you can That's all.

And if you're cheating, that's ok. If she were cheating on you I hope you'd be ok with it, because it's ok! You are doing what comes naturally to you. Humans are not a sexually monogamous species. We try to impose it on ourselves but you can't stray too far from your true nature for too long. Some people's nature allows them to live in sexual monogamy, or at least pretty close. Because who isn't "coveting their neighbor's wife."

As for controlling, manipulation, exploitation - if you ever take time to think about this, and observe the relationships around you, you will notice that most human relationships are based on people guilting, shaming, or using the desperate situation of others for their own ends.

Most people live a life of quiet desperation. It is not hard to find people who will spend time with you just to spend time with ANYBODY. Most women feel so hopelessly ugly, hopelessly undesirable, so hopelessly alone that it is not hard for those who try to exploit this for their own sexual ends. If you don't believe me, go to any bar.

Although it is very rare for friends to exploit each other for money - emotional exploitation, using others to ward off feelings of inadequacy, loneliness, disconnection and so on, is everywhere. In fact, I know about two people who have ANY relationships that aren't emotional exploitation. People use the sadness of others to control them. People use the perceived inadequacy of others to shame them. People use loneliness to string others along anywhere they want to lead. But of course most relationships are MUTUAL exploitation - a kind of equilibrium of guilt, shame, loneliness that balances into a kind of insane symbiosis.

As a project, go to a bar and watch how often people use teasing or shame to get others to do what they want. Rather than helping others find joy in their lives, they try to control them.

Employers exploit the vulnerability of our bodies and our need for food (in the form of needing money for rent, food, etc.) to pay people far less than their hard work is really worth because people will starve otherwise.

For instance, from what you've told me, I'm reasonably certain this person you're with is using your guilt to shame you into marrying her. She seems to dream that if you take a pledge to be with her exclusively, you will provide emotional and material security for her.

Most human relationships are a mixture of genuine feeling and emotion and some form of emotional or material exploitation. That is a fact. Denying it will get you nowhere.

Of course it is possible to have relations based *only* on love, mutual interest (instead of mutual exploitation), and selfless compassion. But such relationships are startlingly rare because the kind of honesty it takes scares people. But it is possible. Through years of hard work, I've started to have relationships of this type. But not all the time. That's how engrained exploitation is in our culture.

Be true to yourself Jayer, and be true to her. You owe her that much. The more you play this game, the more you risk losing... EVERYTHING.

That's true, this is a dangerous game. But I would also add that hundreds of millions of people (and most animal species, so billions of critters) get away with it every day.

It's dangerous but your chances of getting caught are slim. It happens all the time with no consequences. Trust me, your odds of getting away with this for the rest of your life are high and bright.



JAYER, I really think you should do what feels right to you. If cheating feels right, I think you should do it. If not telling her feels right, I really, truly, from the bottom of my heart think you should do what feels right to you. I'm not judging you at all. AT ALL. Consult your emotions, reason, and conscience very carefully and act accordingly

Every question I ask I feel you should be able to rationally and calmly answer, because none of them are attacks. I hope this helps. Izza

 

[Reyaj]

Zarky

I don't know what your definition of failure is... I've basically reduced my approach anxiety... have gotten a lot of dates with girls, hooked up with some, had sex with a few... but ultimately realized most of them were selfish and ill-mannered... Could I have hung in there and played games... sure... but I realize life is short... my gf knows how to be in a relationship and that quality is resounding to me.

Trader

This is what happens when you have no idea who you are

When you have no idea who you are, you have no idea what you want

OP, you are just not that into her.

If you marry her, it will be a marriage of convenience.


You may be right. But maybe marriages of conveniences might be better than the ones where someone is mentally infatuated with the idea of love and romance which ultimately succumbs them to their own demise. I guess I'm still searching for these answers... but this is my current theory

Kailex

What's going on here is simple:

You are getting the best of both worlds without having to deal with the worst.

Quite simply put, you are giving yourself a means to escape from the harsh realities of the LTR or the "hook-up" world. As soon as something bothers you in your LTR, you venture out and everything is okay again because someone else is giving you the excitement that you no longer feel (momentarily) with your LTR. But when something in your hook-up world ceases to excite you, you can just drop them with the slightest of ease and go back to your LTR.

This is why it's so easy for you to keep going on the current path. You aren't experiencing the bad... and as soon as you do, you panic, because you can't handle it. You are so used to shifting focuses from negative to positive without facing the real issue, that when a decision is needed of you, you don't know what to think or say.

I keep insisting, she will notice what is going on and at some point get REALLY tired of it and she'll make the decision for you.

If that's what you want, then I say, keep doing what you are doing.

But think about this... would you rather make the decision yourself and know that YOU were the one who out their foot down or would you rather HER make it for you? Remember, the situation is the same, but the circumstances are different. Dumper .vs. Dumpee brings about many situations and you being the Dumpee spells doom for you.

It's nice that you can HAVE the best of both worlds, but it's temporary. It's not going to last forever and the longer you keep this up, the ruder the wake-up call is going to be in the long run,


You are absolutely on point... I am having the best of both worlds. She is either going to catch me one day... or I am going to forced to make the marriage decision. Right now I am holding out as long as I can. Now would it feel better to be the one that dumps her rather than he dumping me? Probably... but I've learned a lot about frame control... and if she were to break up with me I realize I deserve it and I think ironically thats what makes me comfortable with everything. Almost like I'm leaving this up to fate

I did the exact same thing, but no, I am not currently living with anyone. I DID live with my ex-LTR and we weren't even considering marriage (big mistake). I went through the same thing you did. I loved having both worlds to live in, but in the end, I decided that I was wasting both of our times. She did a lot of things for me, but she didn't do enough. She was great to my family and she was great to me, but I didn't feel that spark. I didn't want to marry her and I knew that she wanted to start a family soon. It wasn't fair to either of us to try to live a lie.

Jayer, and I hate to say this, but I recently came to terms with this myself... if the sex is boring, I'm 99% sure that it's boring because of you. You need to spice it up. It's so easy to just do the same thing everytime with our LTR's, but as men we need to STILL LEAD... even in bed. Switch it up. Do something different, do something exciting.


I think really what it comes down to is realizing life is not a fairy tale. As I've said before what if I do break up with this girl and go back to a roller coaster ride of dating superficial air head selfish girls and regret my decision later? Of course if it was guaranteed I'd meet my soul mate (I think this board feels this term is hyped bs) then it would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately I've seen and experienced some of life's harsh realities. Kailex, I'm sorry I mistakenly read one of your posts saying that you lived with your present ltr. Did I read correctly though that she doesn't have sex with you as much as she once did? Do you think she is a potential marriage candidate? If so what does she offer that your last ltr didn't?

I agree with you on the sex... but isn't it tempting to want to bang other women once in a while too? I mean especially if you aren't married is it really that bad? Yes I know we wouldn't like it if they did it to us... but again life isn't fair.. and I really feel deep down men have more of a rationale to cheat then women do... I know this is a fundamental view, so we can discuss further. You seem very mature and I'm very happy to discuss points of views and philosophies with you.. I respect anyone's views as long as they can back it up.. even if it differs from my own... I know some people just attack you when they read something they don't agree with fundamentally without discussing the point maturely. Maybe you can show me your way.. but I will continue to rebut points I don't concur with.

You tell me what you'd rather do:

(1) Marry her, get her pregnant and then realize you made a mistake...
(2) Not marry her, move on in your life, realize you MIGHT have made a mistake and then meet someone equal or better to her...

It's that simple.
And one of those will most likely happen. You don't seem to love her, you just seem COMFORTABLE with her. Right now, she's the man in the relationship and you're the woman. You are being THAT "branch swinger", looking for that MORE comfortable branch to swing to that might be a little more exciting.

My first month after my LTR was tough, but I've NEVER looked back with any regrets, because I ended it on my own terms and because I know that I'll find someone better. Does that mean that I won't be facing trials and tribulations again? No. But it's an exciting new world for me.

I'm just beginning to wonder if you're not going through what I went through at that time: The fear of starting over.

You have so much invested in your current relationship, that it seems that you aren't too willing to give up. I say this: Don't worry about what you've invested into that, you might reach the point where it's too late to sale that stock and then you'll be stuck with a whole other set of dilemmas.



Be true to yourself Jayer, and be true to her. You owe her that much. The more you play this game, the more you risk losing... EVERYTHING.

Again I appreciate your points.. but I don't know if its really as black and white as your numbers 1 & 2. I mean on point number 1... what if I marry her and I am happy and content? Maybe it wouldn't be a mistake. And on point number 2... what if I do dump her.. move on.. and never find anyone equal or better than her?

I know I risk losing her if I keep playing this game.. and thats something I'll have to accept if she ever catches me... but worst case scenario maybe it will teach me a lesson regardless of what happens.


Thanks again for your time man!

Izza

No hard feelings. I understand where you are coming from with the honesty and I respect that you are able to have open relationships like that. For me though I don't want my gf banging other guys... period... Does this make me a hypocrite? Yes... but again life isn't a fairy tale... We have to life it to the fullest

 

[Kailex]

I think really what it comes down to is realizing life is not a fairy tale. As I've said before what if I do break up with this girl and go back to a roller coaster ride of dating superficial air head selfish girls and regret my decision later? Of course if it was guaranteed I'd meet my soul mate (I think this board feels this term is hyped bs) then it would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately I've seen and experienced some of life's harsh realities. Kailex, I'm sorry I mistakenly read one of your posts saying that you lived with your present ltr. Did I read correctly though that she doesn't have sex with you as much as she once did? Do you think she is a potential marriage candidate? If so what does she offer that your last ltr didn't?

Okay, let me set the record straight here. I don't know if I said I was in an LTR or not, but she's actually my ex. I'm currently single and spinning plates.
I broke up with her last year upon the realization that she was not going to make a good life partner for me. In the last year of the relationship, it was I that was holding out on sex to her and she brought up the point a few times. I used a knee injury that I had suffered, as an excuse, but I was very, very tempted to cheat on her.

I agree with you on the sex... but isn't it tempting to want to bang other women once in a while too? I mean especially if you aren't married is it really that bad? Yes I know we wouldn't like it if they did it to us... but again life isn't fair.. and I really feel deep down men have more of a rationale to cheat then women do... I know this is a fundamental view, so we can discuss further. You seem very mature and I'm very happy to discuss points of views and philosophies with you.. I respect anyone's views as long as they can back it up.. even if it differs from my own... I know some people just attack you when they read something they don't agree with fundamentally without discussing the point maturely. Maybe you can show me your way.. but I will continue to rebut points I don't concur with.

Like I said in the earlier quote, I was ALWAYS tempted to bang someone else. Yes, I wasn't married, but I was living with her (Breaking one of the rules of Rollo) without any goal of marrying her anytime soon. I know you are rationalizing the fact that she might discover you and dump you, but the thought and the action are two different things. Are you completely sure that you can deal with that consequence? Are you sure that if the time comes and she finds out, that you'll be able to go it alone? Also, do you see yourself just NOT cheating anymore if you get married to her? More on that in a second...

Again I appreciate your points.. but I don't know if its really as black and white as your numbers 1 & 2. I mean on point number 1... what if I marry her and I am happy and content? Maybe it wouldn't be a mistake.

What's going to change when you're married that'll make you happy and content? That's just my point. Marriage isn't the magical solution to this problem. Marriage will only MAGNIFY your current situation ten-fold. If you are unhappy in this relationship now, what makes you think you will be happy and content after the certificate is signed? I mean, if you honestly believe it will happen, then more power to you, but in most cases, it doesn't happen.

And on point number 2... what if I do dump her.. move on.. and never find anyone equal or better than her?

That's the risk you take. And to be honest, that's the idea MANY men have in their heads when trying to rationalize breaking up with their current LTR. The fear instilled in us is that we might be letting go of something good and instead being cut a raw deal in the future with anyone else. Basically, this is the thought that is holding you back. Personally, it held me back from dropping her and you have no idea how many times I silently wished that she would cheat on me or that she'd get fed up with me and leave me. Maybe that's why she stuck around, because I could have cared less if she was in the picture. Yet, sometimes I did think of marrying her because she was good to me and because she understood me and she let me be a man, but all of these things weren't good enough for me.

I know I risk losing her if I keep playing this game.. and thats something I'll have to accept if she ever catches me... but worst case scenario maybe it will teach me a lesson regardless of what happens.

I just hope that the lesson isn't a truly harsh one, although that's what it seems to be headed to, Jayer. I really hope that you are able to go through with this with the minimal amount of damage. If you are perfectly willing to accept the consequences of what might take place, then, well I don't think I can advise you anymore... not because I don't want to, but because you are fully aware of the situation. What I DO know is that you definitely shouldn't be marrying this girl anytime soon... you're definitely not ready. Is she still "living" with you? I do wish you the best of luck and I will check up on this and routinely drop a comment or two.

 

[izza]

No hard feelings. I understand where you are coming from with the honesty and I respect that you are able to have open relationships like that. For me though I don't want my gf banging other guys... period... Does this make me a hypocrite? Yes... but again life isn't a fairy tale... We have to life it to the fullest

You're the only one talking about hard feelings, hypocrisy. And I have no idea where you got any notion that I didn't just tell you to live life to the fullest.

I said "if it feels right to cheat then do it. Have no shame about it, if any. Have fun." I'm not sure where you picked up the words hypocrisy, fairy tale from all that.

In fact, I just explicitly told you to go live life to the fullest. If you're going to do this, please stop posting on this board. Please stop analyzing. Analyzing has its place, but not when you've clearly already made up your mind. Go have FUN!