"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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2013 Resolution - get out of epic drought. How?

The LadyKiller

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Since mid-2012, I've been in a mighty drought. Any plates I had disappeared or are otherwise unavailable. Recently, some of the HB's I've spoken to are "polite nice;" they don't initiate anything and refuse to get past the smalltalk stage, no matter what I do. The other HB's give-but-won't-take during a convo. She can take a good-natured shot at me, but when I return the favor, the girl immediately cuts me off and ends the interaction.

Compounding the problem is the incredible ease my friends have had with girls over this same span. A friend met only one girl online and now they're in a LTR - 1st time's the charm. My other friends in relationships have extremely loyal gf's; no games. My other single friends have girls coming up to them and occasionally inviting them out. The girls are outgoing with them and there's no give-but-won't-take antics. Not all of my friends are DJ's either.

When it comes to girls my friend(s) and I know, the girls are very friendly towards them but "meh" towards me. One of the common episodes:
-My friend and I will ask a girl (at different times) what she's up to over the weekend:
TO ME: "Don't know."
TO MY FRIEND: "I'm hosting a big party! Everyone's invited, so please come!"

Now, these girls have to know that we're friends since we hang out together. Obviously, my friend is going to tell me about the party. I've asked my friends if the girls have said anything about me that might explain this behavior - either they haven't heard anything or the girls say I'm "cool."

My question, besides getting out of the drought: Is it really this easy, or are my friends on a collective hot streak? It's as if I'm absorbing all the possible games, weirdness and cr*p from girls that my friends aren't experiencing. I'm outgoing, not a d*uche and have any athletic physique despite my 5-7 height, so theoretically I can get out of this awful slump.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I read Harry Wilmington's thread about "When a Girl Likes You" http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=200903, which brought me to writing this post.
 

“The 22 Psychological Triggers That Make Women Chase You… Starting Tonight”

Forget the cash, the cars, and the chiseled jawlines. Female desire operates on a completely different frequency. Primal. Subconscious. Triggers that bypass her logic and hit her on a gut level. Most guys are totally blind to them.

I know because I was one of them. The overthinking. The paralysis. The silent drive home kicking yourself for freezing up. Watching average guys walk away with the girl while you stood there stuck in your own head.

Then I decoded the psychology behind what actually makes women tick. 22 hard rules.  Subtle behavioral shifts that rewired my entire reality. The anxiety evaporated. Women started leaning in. Investing. Chasing.

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Fly By Night

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That seems strange, but take yourself out of your current perspective.

Are you emitting the same vibe as your friends? You might be taking up so much time trying to decipher girls' actions that you are not actually living in the NOW. You're not talking as much to them, hence lacking the rapport for them to respond positively.

If you are going to judge the way a girl acts towards you, compare it with everyone else. What do your friends say to these girls? Are you basically using your association with your friends as a free ticket to these girls' pants? And do you even talk to them about other things, rather than running game and asking them what they're doing next weekend? You know you didn't build enough rapport when you don't perceive your relationship with the girl as you and her only, but as your social circle and her social circle. Any observation at this point is too early to really tell if they could like you.

I'm sorry, but I've seen things like this happen right in front of me. My female friend was texting one of our mutual male acquaintances and she was telling me how "creepy" she thinks he is and she turned around and was acting all polite to him and stuff. The whole time she was getting annoyed and hoping he would stop texting her, but she would never express it to him. Moral of the story: The girls you're dealing with just don't like you the way you would like them to. (At the moment)

I haven't seen how you actually converse with these girls. All I got so far is, you've asked them questions close friends/couples usually ask each other and they are not comfortable with just telling you. You say you're outgoing, but give some detail on your interaction with them.

If I were in that situation, I would just show up at the party since your guys can give you the info and use that as an outlet to other women. You shouldn't beat yourself up over this situation.
 

peteywintz

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Fly By Night says it well. I was in a similar situation when I was in a LTR and my closest guy friends had a few circles of women that regularly hung out at our house. My mistake was that I made myself socially unavailable to them because I did not want to be tempted into doing anything that would jeopardize my relationship. When I tried to be friendly to them at the same level as my friends, it was not met with the same reaction that would have happened had it been my friends talking. They were always polite and respectful just because they liked my friends, but there was never really any sort of relationship built.

I think you are falling victim to a similar problem; you think that just because these women are your friends' friends they are also your friends. You have to do your due diligence in developing a personal relationship with each one. I have found that you usually find common ground with one girl in her group of friends (whether or not it is the one to whom you are attracted), and when her friends see her warming up to you and seeing value in you they all will come around the same way.
 

The LadyKiller

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Thanks for the feedback. To answer your questions:

-I have a habit of overthinking things, but that by itself wouldn't explain this recent turn of events. I initiate convos with these girls, but it only exists in the smalltalk stage. Any attempt I make of getting past smalltalk is stuffed by the girl, and she returns to the smalltalk stage.

- I don't use my friends' association with the girls at all. I should have been more clear earlier. These girls don't know my friends much better than they know me (if at all). Simply put, they're more receptive to my friends. Like I mentioned a couple of times, I will talk about general/normal things, not only what the weekend may bring. A lot of these girls I'm trying to establish connections with because I see them often - not necessarily trying to date or get with them. My friends do the same thing and it works for them. I do it, and I get the runaround.

- The party was just a generic example of something that happened months back. However, an example from last week from work: I was in the cafeteria on my break eating and relaxing. Minutes later, some co-workers I know from my department arrived at the cafeteria. Typically, when this situation occurs, everyone will eat together. Two girls in the group - who I know - looked around and sat at a big table away from me for the rest of the group. It was at this moment my friend (who had just shown up) intervened and said to the girls, "What are you doing? LadyKiller's sitting right there, why are you sitting at different tables?" My intervening friend couldn't stay, but we all ended up sitting together at the big table.

Going full circle to the OP, I know these girls as well as my friends do. The girls react positively to them and neutral ("polite nice")/negatively towards me and nobody can identify why. My friends who have observed me and won't hold back criticism say I'm normal and the girls are weird. We all know the girls won't admit to anything. This is what the epic slump has mainly consisted of.
 
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